[ARCHIVED THREAD] - . . (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/31/2013 8:48:27 AM EDT
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One way to stimulate the auto industry. Yep, mandate that all new vehicles be upgraded to E 85 capable immediately !! Mine already are, but the more the ethanol %, the worse the fuel economy. And they will charge the same price or higher. It's a boondoggle. |
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Corn ethanol is one of the dumbest things our government has foisted upon us.
First, it's inefficient. Sugarbeets are vastly superior: beets produce twice as much ethanol per acre as corn and require about 40 percent less water per gallon of ethanol produced.
- Source: OilPrice.com Next, it's incredibly damaging to the global food market. The United States accounted for 39 per cent of global trade in corn in 2011-12. Stockpiles are now down 48 per cent, according to the US Department of Agriculture. Corn prices have shot up 60 per cent since June 15.
Corn is a primary staple in Sub-Saharan Africa, and in much of Central and South America. In South Africa, the cost of maize has increased about 40 per cent in the last year, even before the US drought struck. So - should the United States continue to allow the use of corn to produce ethanol? Should the government continue to require a 10 percent ethanol blend, if that ethanol has to come from foodstocks and not from "waste" products such as switchgrass or hulls? We think not. Using corn to produce gasoline while people starve for lack of corn is immoral. - Source: The Courier Express |
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The whole mess is just a cluster fuck....they subsidize and already highly subsidized industry like farmers to produce a product that knowingly has adverse and negative effects on the fuel industry and the food industry.
The goverment should stay the fuck out of farming.....and this is coming from a former rice farmer! My family has farmed rice for 5 generations! |
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The whole mess is just a cluster fuck....they subsidize and already highly subsidized industry like farmers to produce a product that knowingly has adverse and negative effects on the fuel industry and the food industry. The goverment should stay the fuck out of farming.....and this is coming from a former rice farmer! My family has farmed rice for 5 generations! If government stayed out of farming, then farmers would have to farm instead of being paid to lose money or leave their fields fallow. Why do you think the Mississippi basin is so solidly blue? It's some of the most fertile farmland in the entire world, and you've got farmers there who get paid not to plant. It's the only business I know where you can lose a half million dollars in a year, drive a new truck, live in a new home, and have more money in the bank and less debt than when you started. |
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Do you lose any power running e-85, I notice a difference i could feel,i don't use the shit , milage goes out the window also. Quoted:
How does e15 kill engines when e10 does not? I don't get it. I run e85 in my 2002 Camaro as do many others with no real changes in hardware. |
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How does e15 kill engines when e10 does not? I don't get it. I run e85 in my 2002 Camaro as do many others with no real changes in hardware. Ethanol is an excellent solvent. One of the things it does is strip the oil off your cylinder walls and valves. And E10 kills engines too, it's just slower. |
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Do you lose any power running e-85, I notice a difference i could feel,i don't use the shit , milage goes out the window also. Quoted:
How does e15 kill engines when e10 does not? I don't get it. I run e85 in my 2002 Camaro as do many others with no real changes in hardware. Well it actually doubled the horsepower, but that has more to do with the turbocharger 
All else being equal you will get less mpg on e85 so what you experienced is probably normal. |
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There will be no E15 MANDATE. E85 isn't really working out like they had hoped. You will probably see a lof of those E85 pumps switched over to E15 after it clears regulatory hurdles. Many new models are approved for E15 use. All it does is give the consumer another choice. They aren't forcing it on anyone like they did with E10. |
| Taking into account all the petroleum used to produce ethanol, we'd be immensely better off just using that petroleum to produce gasoline for our cars. And this doesn't even touch on the horrendous environmental damage related to the industrial farming used to so inefficiently produce the corn that becomes ethanol. Looking at the big picture, ethanol fuel is probably the worst possible way to power our vehicles. |
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The whole mess is just a cluster fuck....they subsidize and already highly subsidized industry like farmers to produce a product that knowingly has adverse and negative effects on the fuel industry and the food industry. The goverment should stay the fuck out of farming.....and this is coming from a former rice farmer! My family has farmed rice for 5 generations! If government stayed out of farming, then farmers would have to farm instead of being paid to lose money or leave their fields fallow. Why do you think the Mississippi basin is so solidly blue? It's some of the most fertile farmland in the entire world, and you've got farmers there who get paid not to plant. It's the only business I know where you can lose a half million dollars in a year, drive a new truck, live in a new home, and have more money in the bank and less debt than when you started. I've seen it first hand, my grandfather always planted a crop, never took a farm subsidy his whole life till he died Nov 11', he worked hard up till a year before his death. I know farmers who would not plant or plant crops such as corn or soy bean just to let the crops wither or not reach full maturity just to claim loss of crop in order to get $$$ from the fed. |
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Do you want to see what farmer's get for subsidies?
Punch in your zip code here: http://farm.ewg.org/search.php?fips=00000®ionname=theUnitedStates |
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E10 causes problems. We have not complained enough. Let the MARKET decide. Acetylaldehyde emissions are a problem with ethanol in gasoline, the EPA needs to address this toxic irritant. But they won't dang, dude! You are like the most knowledgeable or smartest person on ARfcom. Seriously, I mean that. I'll be reading along in some thread and some dude posts some uber technical language'd comment, I look up at the avatar, and sure enough it is the same dude wearing red, white, and blue on a bicycle. How'd you get to be so smart? |
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My family has been in the Oil and Fuel's business since 1919... I'm the 4th generation of it.
Ethanol is hands down, one of the top 5 worse ideas that our government has ever forced down our throats. If not the #1. Loss of power. Loss of fuel economy. Engine destruction - most prevalent on 2 strokes and older model 4 strokes. However, you will not see 200k-300k out of an engine like you used to anymore, without a significant amount of work going into it. Fuel pump destruction. Fuel filters. Harder to handle / more expensive to handle. (Can't pipe line it, since it's corrosive. So you can only Rail car it or Tanker it.) Shelf life. It's, fucking, terrible. And should be an absolute crime to mandate it's use. If you have access to it, buy 93 octane aviation gas. Ethanol is so terrible that it's not approved by the FAA for a commercial fuel. Av gas is still ethanol free. |
That's for thinking we still have a free market! |
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That's one way to force people to buy new vehicles. I'm sure that's part of the plan.  No, the purpose is to kill off personal vehicles. Get on the bus, peon! That's probably the overall goal for the distant future, but the UAW is a big democrat donor. They need people to buy new vehicles to funnel money to the democrat party. |
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e85 does have its place... supercharged cars with a good tune can pick up a shit ton of HP with an e85 only tune... i can show you dyno charts(and time slips) to prove it Yeah and they are also burning a shit ton more of it to get there, hence all the modifications to take advantage of the higher octane fuel that has significantly less BTU, not to mention the fact the shit goes rancid since it is hydroscopic and the blends you buy at the pump are all over the map. So I can add a shit ton of money to an engine just so I can burn a shit ton more fuel to do the same thing as a NA engine on pure petroleum gas that also has negligible side effects compared to alcohol blends. Hmmm. And remember all the tax money given as subsidies to actually grow and produce the shit reallistically cancels out the minor cost savings at the pump... I'd rather have less taxes and regular fuel. Its just as bad as wind farms. |
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Not really worth the argument with all of the mis/dis-information from the bigoil and auto manufactures currently going on in the US. But I'm going to put my toe in anyway.
Did you know that during the 80's that nearly all vehicles sold IN BRAZIL ran on E96. [SOURCE] EV World: The World of Electric, Hybrid, Fuel Cell and Alternative Fuel Vehicles www.evworld.com Exclusive interview with Henrique Periera, GM Brazil's 'Father of Flex Fuel' "When the "oil shocks" of the 1970s hit the western world, Brazil responded by looking to alcohol as a substitute for imported petroleum.And according GM's Henrique Periera, by the early 1980's virtually every car sold in the country ran on 100 percent alcohol fuel produced from the nation's vast sugar cane plantations. " Please note that I am NOT discussing below the ethics, or lack thereof, of the gubumint subsidizing ethanol production. With regards to corrosion: At 160 proof (80% alcohol, 20% water), alcohol is very corrosive against metals containing aluminum (with less than 12% silicone or zinc). Water enables electrolysis that draws the metals most easily dissolved into solution. Above alcohol levels of 185+ proof, corrosion is not typically a concern. It is the WATER in the fuel mixture that causes the corrosion, not the alcohol. With regards to food for fuel (tacitly implied as an issue in some of the responses and typical uninformed arguments): Did you know that fermenting corn first and then feeding the distillers mash to cows causes accelerated growth and less disease than feeding the cows the corn prior to fermentation? |
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Do you want to see what farmer's get for subsidies? Punch in your zip code here: http://farm.ewg.org/search.php?fips=00000®ionname=theUnitedStates Wowee!! "Whitfield Burcham received payments totaling $565,945 from 1995 through 2011" Yowser!! 
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Lets not forget that ethanol burns dirtier than gasoline, meaning it is worse for the environment.
http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html and thats from a greenie website. ETA: After reading that it appears that those of us that hate ethanol have allies on the hardcore green front. Politics make strange bedfellows I guess. |
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The fuel industry's American Petroleum Institute tested the 15 percent ethanol gas approved in 2010 and found it gums up fuel systems, prompts "check engine" lights to come on, and messes with fuel gauge readings.
Read the full article here: http://washingtonexaminer.com/study-new-e15-gas-can-ruin-auto-engines/article/2520078 Sounds like my car, the check engine light is on but it runs fine and the gas gauge is way off. |
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Corn ethanol is one of the dumbest things our government has foisted upon us. First, it's inefficient. Sugarbeets are vastly superior: beets produce twice as much ethanol per acre as corn and require about 40 percent less water per gallon of ethanol produced.
- Source: OilPrice.com Never gonna happen. The US sugar industry is quite happy with how the USDA regulates sugar production and the caps on domestic production. I was told it is the most corrupt program in the entire US Government. http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-congress-should-repeal-sugar-subsidy In the domestic market, the Agriculture Department decides what total sugar production ought to be and allots 54% of production to beet sugar and 46% to cane sugar. The department then allots each sugar company a specific production quota. According to the Government Accountability Office, 42% of sugar program benefits go to just 1% of sugar growers.
eta: If you want to do enough sugar beet production to be used as a fuel you'd have to scrap the current scheme and greatly increase sugar beet farming. Which would mean the current sugar growers wouldn't get their sweet (lol) deal and be able to pay off bureaucrats and politicians. |
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Quoted: Quoted: E10 causes problems. We have not complained enough. Let the MARKET decide. Acetylaldehyde emissions are a problem with ethanol in gasoline, the EPA needs to address this toxic irritant. But they won't dang, dude! You are like the most knowledgeable or smartest person on ARfcom. Seriously, I mean that. I'll be reading along in some thread and some dude posts some uber technical language'd comment, I look up at the avatar, and sure enough it is the same dude wearing red, white, and blue on a bicycle. How'd you get to be so smart? Ugly girlfriends in college. Made me hit the books harder  . And they couldn't cook, much less make me a sandwich. |
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Quoted: Lets not forget that ethanol burns dirtier than gasoline, meaning it is worse for the environment. http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html and thats from a greenie website. ETA: After reading that it appears that those of us that hate ethanol have allies on the hardcore green front. Politics make strange bedfellows I guess. Imagine that? Acetylaldehyde emissions are NOT oxidized by current catalytic converters when running E85. Even E25 has problems. That smell resembling antifreeze you sometimes smell on the road? That is acetylaldehyde and it is from ethanol in gasoline. |
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Lets not forget that ethanol burns dirtier than gasoline, meaning it is worse for the environment. http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html and thats from a greenie website. ETA: After reading that it appears that those of us that hate ethanol have allies on the hardcore green front. Politics make strange bedfellows I guess. Imagine that? Acetylaldehyde emissions are NOT oxidized by current catalytic converters when running E85. Even E25 has problems. That smell resembling antifreeze you sometimes smell on the road? That is acetylaldehyde and it is from ethanol in gasoline. that explains it. thanks for the info keith! |
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Same as ultra low sulfur killing older diesel engines , just a way to force older vehicles off the road. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You can still buy low sulpher diesel... I have to put a bottle of transmission fluid in my old diesel tractors every time I fill them up though :( |
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Corn ethanol is one of the dumbest things our government has foisted upon us. First, it's inefficient. Sugarbeets are vastly superior: beets produce twice as much ethanol per acre as corn and require about 40 percent less water per gallon of ethanol produced.
- Source: OilPrice.com Next, it's incredibly damaging to the global food market. The United States accounted for 39 per cent of global trade in corn in 2011-12. Stockpiles are now down 48 per cent, according to the US Department of Agriculture. Corn prices have shot up 60 per cent since June 15.
Corn is a primary staple in Sub-Saharan Africa, and in much of Central and South America. In South Africa, the cost of maize has increased about 40 per cent in the last year, even before the US drought struck. So - should the United States continue to allow the use of corn to produce ethanol? Should the government continue to require a 10 percent ethanol blend, if that ethanol has to come from foodstocks and not from "waste" products such as switchgrass or hulls? We think not. Using corn to produce gasoline while people starve for lack of corn is immoral. - Source: The Courier Express Switchgrass and sugar cane are even more energy packed as well. |
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Not really worth the argument with all of the mis/dis-information from the bigoil and auto manufactures currently going on in the US. But I'm going to put my toe in anyway. Did you know that during the 80's that nearly all vehicles sold IN BRAZIL ran on E96. [SOURCE] EV World: The World of Electric, Hybrid, Fuel Cell and Alternative Fuel Vehicles www.evworld.com Exclusive interview with Henrique Periera, GM Brazil's 'Father of Flex Fuel' "When the "oil shocks" of the 1970s hit the western world, Brazil responded by looking to alcohol as a substitute for imported petroleum.And according GM's Henrique Periera, by the early 1980's virtually every car sold in the country ran on 100 percent alcohol fuel produced from the nation's vast sugar cane plantations. " Please note that I am NOT discussing below the ethics, or lack thereof, of the gubumint subsidizing ethanol production. With regards to corrosion: At 160 proof (80% alcohol, 20% water), alcohol is very corrosive against metals containing aluminum (with less than 12% silicone or zinc). Water enables electrolysis that draws the metals most easily dissolved into solution. Above alcohol levels of 185+ proof, corrosion is not typically a concern. It is the WATER in the fuel mixture that causes the corrosion, not the alcohol. With regards to food for fuel (tacitly implied as an issue in some of the responses and typical uninformed arguments): Did you know that fermenting corn first and then feeding the distillers mash to cows causes accelerated growth and less disease than feeding the cows the corn prior to fermentation? I believe Brazil grows a ton of sugarcane for their vehicles. It is much more efficient than corn. |