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Posted: 8/21/2005 6:13:24 PM EDT
Man, I'm sorry I missed out on this... I would have run the underground storage tanks dry!

link

85 cents a gallon

Williamsfield station sells ethanol/gas blend


Sunday, August 21, 2005



WILLIAMSFIELD - Fuel sold for 85 cents a gallon here Saturday, where community members celebrated the grand opening of an E85 fuel pump.
Fast Stop opened recently in Williamsfield and is offering E85 for the first time in Knox County. Knoxville-based Riverland FS, which owns the Williamsfield station, added an E85 pump to its Roseville station in May.

E85 is blend of 85 percent ethanol, usually made from corn, and 15 percent gasoline. The fuel can be used only in vehicles with flex-fuel engines, which are available in a Ford Taurus, Chevy Tahoe, Dodge Caravan and other makes and models.

The fuel had been selling for about 45 cents cheaper than the regular gasoline. However, in a four-hour promotion Saturday, the Knox County Corn Growers Association covered the price difference to make it 85 cents.

Representatives from local and state farm groups, the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition, American Lung Association, Illinois Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity and Illinois Environmental Protection Agency were expected to attend. State Rep. Don Moffitt, R-Gilson, was there and Wight Chevrolet had flexible-fuel vehicles on display.

Fast Stop is off Illinois 180 in Williamsfield.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:15:26 PM EDT
I suspect me trying to run it would have ended up with me dropping th gastank to drain it
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:17:35 PM EDT
What is the difference in the flex fuel engines and a normal engine?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
What is the difference in the flex fuel engines and a normal engine?



that's what i'm wondering. I also understand that ethanol doesn't provide the same mileage that pure gas does, at least in the 85% gas/15% eth mix that is commonly sold today.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:24:17 PM EDT
About 10 years ago I saw a documentary about a pig farmer in England who collected his pig poo, put it in a methane digester, and ran all his equipment on it, including his car. Imagine- all the barbque you could eat and free gas.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:26:01 PM EDT
Illinois 180=Interstate 180?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:27:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
What is the difference in the flex fuel engines and a normal engine?



I know that a race engine on alcohol will consume nearly twice as much fuel as it would with gasoline... Also, the alcohol will attack or corrode many things that gasoline wont... (rubber/fuel lines, etc...)
I think a modern car running this mix would require bigger injectors, differnet spark/fuel curves, stainless fuel lines and alcohol resistant rubber... Alcohol also makes an engine run much cooler, so thats a whole 'nuther can of worms...
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:29:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
What is the difference in the flex fuel engines and a normal engine?




Pure ethanol mixes about 2 1/2 time the amount of fuel with air as a gasoline engine. It is also anhydrous and you would need a way to keep the water out of it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:29:16 PM EDT
Quick google,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85


I think but I'm not sure, the engine in my Ford Ranger 3.0 V6 is one of the flex fuel capable engines.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:30:42 PM EDT
E85 isn't as efficent but since it's cheaper the only downside is having to fill up more often. If given the choice who would you rather support America's farmers or foreign counties?


There are many vehicles that can use the E85 gas. Here's a list.

-Selected 2005 5.3L Chevrolet Avalanche SUVs
-Selected 2002-2005 5.3L Suburbans, Tahoes

-Selected 2002-2005 5.3L Silverado trucks

-All 2000-2002 2.2L Chevy S-10 trucks (after 12/99)

-All 2000-2002 2.2L Sonoma trucks (after 12/99)

Chrysler

-Selected 2004-2005 4.7L Dodge Ram 1500 trucks

-Selected 2003-2005 2.7L Chrysler Sebring sedans

-Selected 2003-2005 2.7L Dodge Stratus sedans

-Selected 2003-2005 3.3L Caravan Cargo vans

-All 1998-2003 3.3L Caravan minivans


-All 1998-2003 3.3L Voyager minivans

-All 1998-2003 3.3L Town & Country minivans

Note: 2005 Chrysler flexible fuel vehicles are available through fleet sales only.

Ford

-Selected 2002-2005 4.0L Explorer SUVs

-Selected 2004-2005 4.0L Explorer Sport Tracs

-Selected 1999-2003 3.0L Ranger trucks

-Selected 2000-2005 3.0L Taurus sedans and wagons

-Selected 1995-1999 3.0L Taurus sedans

GMC

-Selected 2002-2005 5.3L Yukons, Yukon XLs

-Selected 2002-2005 5.3L Sierra trucks

Isuzu

-All 2000-2002 Isuzu 2.2L Hombre trucks (after 12/99)

Mazda

-Selected 1999-2002 Mazda 3.0L B3000 trucks

Mercedes-Benz

-All 2wd 2003-05 3.2L Mercedes C320 Series sport sedans and coupes

-All 2wd 2005 2.6L Mercedes C240 Series luxury sedans and wagons

Mercury

-Selected 2002-2005 4.0L Mountaineer SUVs

-Selected 2001-2005 3.0L Sables

Nissan

-Selected 2005 5.6L Titan trucks

Source: American Lung Association of Minnesota, National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition.

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:32:35 PM EDT
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:37:02 PM EDT
e85
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:45:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
About 10 years ago I saw a documentary about a pig farmer in England who collected his pig poo, put it in a methane digester, and ran all his equipment on it, including his car. Imagine- all the barbque you could eat and free gas.



Not shit. Energy
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:51:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
What is the difference in the flex fuel engines and a normal engine?



Flex fuel motors automatically adjust the timing of the motor for the ethanol. All vehicles can run on 90 percent gas, 10 per cent ethanol. That is the only fuel you can buy most places around here.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 6:52:21 PM EDT
No fucking ricers on the flex list? What gives? I thought they liked......rice.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:07:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ben70:
No fucking ricers on the flex list? What gives? I thought they liked......rice.



Reading comprehension isn't your forte, eh?

Mazda
Izusu
Nissan
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:08:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.



WTF? Huh???

Can you give that to us in Engrish?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:28:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 7:56:10 PM EDT by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By xanadu:

Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.



WTF? Huh???

Can you give that to us in Engrish?



I think he means: Gas-run generator which powers an otherwise electric car. Still runs on gas, and the added weight of that 500-hp electric would mean you'd need a damn powerplant under the hood.
Basic physics: you don't get something for nothing.

My solution: build nuclear plants, lots of them, with CURRENT TECHNOLOGY, and put lots of money into further nuclear research. Electric cars running 'on grid' (on roads) can be powered via Microwave Power Transmission, and charging their batteries for time 'off grid' (transmitters can give 100% road coverage, but not if you want to do some serious off-roading/trail-blazing [I'm sure with 100% road coverage, more efficient (less batteries!) on-road-only models would be available]. Electricity would certainly be plentiful enough if we got some serious nuke research going again [because running that many cars on electricity is impossible with our current non-nuke systems).
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:31:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.


there's a guy in Spokane that designed an electric car that weighs like 3800lbs(batteries) that had 800hp and 500ft-lbs of torque. I'll see if I can dig up the specs on it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:47:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 7:48:34 PM EDT by Jetlag]
It's not really cheaper, the corn farmers get the states out there to pay for it. That's why it hasn't made it's way to other states. The real question is, can you get drunk before the gas kills you?


Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By xanadu:

Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.



WTF? Huh???

Can you give that to us in Engrish?



I think he means: Gas-run generator which powers an otherwise electric car. Still runs on gas, and the added weight of that 500-hp electric would mean you'd need a damn powerplant under the hood.



That doesn't really jive with the "screw gas" sentiment, though.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:56:57 PM EDT
Brazil uses straight ethanol, but very few car companies make cars flexible enough for it. They were bragging that they can make enough ethanol and ethanol blends to fill 100 billion barrels using sugar cane. Too bad we go through 20 billion barrels a day.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:58:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By xanadu:

Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.



WTF? Huh???

Can you give that to us in Engrish?



I think he means: Gas-run generator which powers an otherwise electric car. Still runs on gas, and the added weight of that 500-hp electric would mean you'd need a damn powerplant under the hood.
Basic physics: you don't get something for nothing.

My solution: build nuclear plants, lots of them, with CURRENT TECHNOLOGY, and put lots of money into further nuclear research. Electric cars running 'on grid' (on roads) can be powered via Microwave Power Transmission, and charging their batteries for time 'off grid' (transmitters can give 100% road coverage, but not if you want to do some serious off-roading/trail-blazing [I'm sure with 100% road coverage, more efficient (less batteries!) on-road-only models would be available]. Electricity would certainly be plentiful enough if we got some serious nuke research going again [because running that many cars on electricity is impossible with our current non-nuke systems).




Just let the navy build and run the nukes, and tell the envirofacists to fuck off and die
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:46:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Reading comprehension isn't your forte, eh?

Mazda
Izusu
Nissan



Yes, I saw 5.3L trucks on that list.

In my area, 'ricer' refers not simply to an import, but a mid size or compact, usually a 4 banger. So, a corolla/civic/etc.

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:38:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wittzo:
Brazil uses straight ethanol, but very few car companies make cars flexible enough for it. They were bragging that they can make enough ethanol and ethanol blends to fill 100 billion barrels using sugar cane. Too bad we go through 20 billion barrels a day.



We use up 20 Million barrels a day (closer to 23 or 24 now). I think they were talking in millions, too- but if it's 100b, then I'm truely impressed, and we should all switch over to petrol-free-ethanol.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:51:20 PM EDT
Doesnt the milage with E85 suck so bad the savings become pointless?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:05:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jetlag:
It's not really cheaper, the corn farmers get the states out there to pay for it. That's why it hasn't made it's way to other states. The real question is, can you get drunk before the gas kills you?Originally Posted By Andreuha:
Originally Posted By xanadu:
Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.



Nope, all ethanol even the so called 100% ethanol by law must be denatured to avoid human consumption. Usually by gas, I believe the rate is one gal. of gas per 100 gal. of Ethanol.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:10:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 7:11:35 PM EDT by WildBoar]
Looks like E85 is on average 5mpg worse than gas.
thats 100 less miles per tankful for me. My van is flex fuel capable but have not seen it here yet.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:05:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 8:06:33 PM EDT by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
Doesnt the milage with E85 suck so bad the savings become pointless?



Sort of. The economics-of-scale will kick in when/if we switch over to ethanol, and it will become CHEAP (because much of the resources we currently use on the oil-industry will go over to ethanol). Furthermore, engines will be optimized for Ethanol fuels, which will bring that mileage up somewhat closer to that of gas.

Another option of is crude made from coal (forgot the name of the process, it's very viable), but that's iffy at best, because first we'd need LOTS of new-gen nuclear power to run such operations. This in conjuction with Ethanol could one day make us completely independent from foreign oil supplies.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:14:00 PM EDT
Where's Mr. Fusion when you need him?




Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:19:24 PM EDT
Why not put small nuclear reactors in every car to convert water to steam to turn a generator for power. Then we could stop and fill up on WATER!!
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:30:29 PM EDT
Shit, at 85 cents a gallon, I'd mix it with a littel OJ and haev a hell of a night.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:37:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:
Just let the navy build and run the nukes, and tell the envirofacists to fuck off and die



Amen!
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:39:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Originally Posted By Ben70:
No fucking ricers on the flex list? What gives? I thought they liked......rice.



Reading comprehension isn't your forte, eh?

Mazda
Izusu
Nissan




I thought Mazda was owned by Ford?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:40:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wittzo:
Brazil uses straight ethanol, but very few car companies make cars flexible enough for it. They were bragging that they can make enough ethanol and ethanol blends to fill 100 billion barrels using sugar cane. Too bad we go through 20 billion barrels a day.



Yeahhhh, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT we go through 20 billion barrels of oil a day.

Maybe 20 million.

Maybe.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:44:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jixxerbeast:
It would be cool to make a large enough alternater that powered the vehicle and could be tweaked to 500hp and just say screw gas.



Not too up on cars and the like, are ya'.

The motor turns the alternator by a belt.

If you take the motor out of the equation, the alternator doesn't turn and you don't get any electricity.

Pretty hard to make electricity if the alternator isn't turning.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:47:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrKrink:
Why not put small nuclear reactors in every car to convert water to steam to turn a generator for power. Then we could stop and fill up on WATER!!





You trust Joe Fucktard to talk on his cell phone, hold his beer, and keep a nuclear powered car from crashing....?
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:43:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By MrKrink:
Why not put small nuclear reactors in every car to convert water to steam to turn a generator for power. Then we could stop and fill up on WATER!!





You trust Joe Fucktard to talk on his cell phone, hold his beer, and keep a nuclear powered car from crashing....?



There's always a conventional steam engine...perhaps a wee underpowered but not a concern if you spend lots of time in gridlock!
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 5:53:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:

There's always a conventional steam engine...perhaps a wee underpowered but not a concern if you spend lots of time in gridlock!



Legal - I know a little about vintage steam cars.
What fuel would you use in a modern iteration?

New sub-thread for the main thread:

Can I get a 'hell yeah' for fuel cells??
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 9:31:15 PM EDT
saw a thing on the history channel on a turbine powered car ir ran on pretty much any combustable fuil.

fuck why not just simply fuel cells.
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