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Posted: 10/23/2004 9:56:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 6:26:25 AM EST by Nate1]
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Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:21:02 PM EST
Nate,
Sorry about your luck, but your experience is not mine... Have been an commissioned Army Aviator for almost thirteen years, and except for the past year (in school), they have all been in operational flying positions. Don't know your assignment history, but I have always been able to get on the schedule as a staff guy. It isn't easy because it means usually means double the time and effort (inbox is still waiting for you after landing), but your reward is to stay relevant, build time, and remain connected to the line aviators. The flight time is usually there, but you have go looking for it. As a staff aviator, are you making an effort to stay in the books, in the simulator, volunteering for the less-glamorous flights (weekend static displays, test flights, ferry flights, etc.), asking for a check ride when DES comes around? If not, you're missing opportunities. If you've been a PIC before, then chances are you are a potentially valuable asset to the unit who supports you - you just have to spin it right... Volunteer to help track and keep the other FAC 2 aviators current - help the CDR, PLs, and IPs manage the schedule for the FAC 2 guys by being proactive. It can be done and if you stick it out, a subsequent assignment may allow you more flight time/enjoyment. Besides, now more than ever, your service and branch need you - glamorous job or not...

Or you can try to switch branches into a community with very few RW assets, potentially putting yourself behind the career curve in the process. Be advised it is also one where the RW pilot is a second class citizen. Think I'm bullshitting? Less than two years ago, I was at an Air Force school that had a joint mix of all types of pilots and navigators - When we were introducing ourselves/services/and airframes, the AF helo guy stood up and said his piece. Afterward, I observed 4-5 AF jet jockeys laughing about how they didn't even know they had helos! How's that for a close knit community?

Whatever you do, before you make a decision, do your homework on everything involved in switching services. Will branch even let you go right now? What is your ADSO? FWIW, talking to an Air Force recruiter is not going to be helpful. You need to talk with an AF helo pilot to see how much greener the grass on the other side is... hug.gif

RLTW,
Copperhead
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:49:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 6:26:37 AM EST by Nate1]
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Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:52:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nate1:
Yeah, I'm just kicking ideas around wondering if it is feasible to switch or if the army would even let me go. I'm not really serious, just frustrated...

I just recently graduated from flight school and am used to flying everyday.
I'm just bitching...



What's your rank now? Would I be correct if I guess you were 1st Cav?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:56:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 6:26:49 AM EST by Nate1]
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Link Posted: 10/23/2004 12:59:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Copperhead16:
You need to talk with an AF helo pilot to see how much greener the grass on the other side is...

RLTW,
Copperhead



True enough.
AF helo pilots chime in any time...
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 1:26:28 PM EST
Usually when someone is griping about their unit, and they are in Texas, it's 1st Cav. Oh well, so much for my attempt to sound psychic.

You must have just gotten out of flight school. Heed Copperhead16s advice, and drive on. Every 2LT gets stuck doing 2LT things.

If you really want to fly more, Korea is almost always an option.

If you are prior service Army, are you sure you could adapt to AF culture?

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 1:29:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:43:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 3:44:12 PM EST by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By Nate1:
I often wonder why even put Army officers through flight training if they aren't going to be allowed to spend significant amounts of time flying?



Because that what warrants are for!

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:00:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By Nate1:
I often wonder why even put Army officers through flight training if they aren't going to be allowed to spend significant amounts of time flying?



Because that what warrants are for!

www.usawoa.org/WEGLBRAS.JPG



I missed that one earlier.

An aviation officer has to fly - when war comes, and you have to do a company level attack, you aren't much good if you can't fly. Still, flying is not your job. You will have all the duties of your peers in other branches, while also needing to maintain your flying skills - which may often be on your own time. Such is life.

If you wanted to be a full-time pilot, you would have indeed had to go the warrant officer route.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:24:53 PM EST
It shouldn't be all that hard to transfer to the AF esp if your Blackhawk experienced. The AF helicopter community all though small is very tight group with most active/guard units being either special ops , CSAR or both. Talk to a local recruiter and find out who to talk too, there is some special AF recruiting laison officer who handles these kinda situations
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:10:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2004 6:27:00 AM EST by Nate1]
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Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:14:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nate1:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By Nate1:
I often wonder why even put Army officers through flight training if they aren't going to be allowed to spend significant amounts of time flying?



Because that what warrants are for!

www.usawoa.org/WEGLBRAS.JPG



I missed that one earlier.

An aviation officer has to fly - when war comes, and you have to do a company level attack, you aren't much good if you can't fly. Still, flying is not your job. You will have all the duties of your peers in other branches, while also needing to maintain your flying skills - which may often be on your own time. Such is life.

If you wanted to be a full-time pilot, you would have indeed had to go the warrant officer route.



Yeah, but don't the comissioned officers do most, if not all of the flying in the Air Force? From what I hear, they also get pay incentives authorized by congress for ALL military aviators that the army chooses to appropriate elsewhere...

Yes, I probably should have become a warrant officer. I ended up going the ROTC route and lucked out even getting into aviation.

If I have a 6 year ADSO, does that mean that I have to stay with the army for those six years or just 6 more years of active duty military service?

Don't get me wrong, I love the Army, but I don't love everything about it...
I'm just considering possible options for the future.



The AF does not have warrant officer pilots.

On second thought, maybe you'll fit right in with the AF culture. Go for it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:25:50 PM EST
Man, the Army sure is different than the Navy. Our CWOs are commissioned and assume pretty much the same duties as the unrestricted line folks do quite often.
Regards,
Rich
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:33:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By retiredsquid:
Man, the Army sure is different than the Navy. Our CWOs are commissioned and assume pretty much the same duties as the unrestricted line folks do quite often.
Regards,
Rich



Ours get commissioned at CW-3, IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:52:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By retiredsquid:
Man, the Army sure is different than the Navy. Our CWOs are commissioned and assume pretty much the same duties as the unrestricted line folks do quite often.
Regards,
Rich



Ours get commissioned at CW-3, IIRC.



CW2, although as of FY 06 all Warrants will be commissioned at WO1.

CW3 is when you integrate to AC, all WO1's and CW2's are in the USAR even if on active duty.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 8:08:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By retiredsquid:
Man, the Army sure is different than the Navy. Our CWOs are commissioned and assume pretty much the same duties as the unrestricted line folks do quite often.
Regards,
Rich



In some units Army Warrants do. Most technical Warrants will also serve as a platoon leader, detachment commander, ships commander, or even company commander (that one is rare but happens) off and on through thier career. However aviators are different, all those duties are assumed by the RLO's in Nates position. So the RLO's get all the extra duties with flying tossed in, while the aviation Warrants just fly.

The Army is moving down a road that is slowly blurring the distinction between WO's and RLO's, driven in part by the aviators wanting to become RLO's and a certain percentage of the RLO's that don't like Warrants.

I look for the Warrant Officer Candidate School at Ft. Rucker to not exist 10 years from now and be rolled into OCS unless someone changes the direction the Army is headed.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:36:56 AM EST
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