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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:56:03 AM EDT
Last night, while in a resturaunt/tavern several of us were threatened by an asshat with a running chainsaw.

The particulars are in another thread: Link to thread

Would you have shot? Would it have been justified?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:57:51 AM EDT
Where in the hell were you guys at?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:59:38 AM EDT
The duck inn in Evansville.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:03:08 AM EDT
I couldn't have shot him because I don't pack when alcohol is involved.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:04:11 AM EDT
Thats nuts, i would have put more distance between us when he came in the bar. If he advanced he might have got shot.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:04:11 AM EDT
Please define "raising hell" with a chainsaw.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:06:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By j-fonz:
I couldn't have shot him because I don't pack when alcohol is involved.



Exactly, State of Oklahoma says no guns allowed in bars. so I would have been left with other means.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:07:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 11:07:55 AM EDT by MST2]
You are not supposed to carry concealed into a place that sells alcohol. Secondly, if he wasnt running at you with that running chainsaw or trying to kill someone else with it, then you cannot shoot him. Don't frequent those kinds of places and you wont be put in that kind of situation.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:07:26 AM EDT
Yeah, I would have shot him, but only in the knee caps.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:17:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MST2:
You are not supposed to carry concealed into a place that sells alcohol. Secondly, if he wasnt running at you with that running chainsaw or trying to kill someone else with it, then you cannot shoot him. Don't frequent those kinds of places and you wont be put in that kind of situation.



+1

First line of defense is your head, use it. Avoid situations. Sure, "stuff" can happen anywhere but, it's funny how it seems to spike in trashy joints. Avoid them. And, as MST2 says, as well as most state carry laws: "CCW prohibited in places which serve alcohol (in FL it's 'derive more than 50% from alcohol,' similar in TX) ." Discretion being the better part of valor, and a brain function, get the hell out of there the first time you see a guy with a chainsaw - nothing good can come of it. I have been in combat, and people I know who have been in combat would say the same, ease around behind and leave quietly. I am not someone else's private policeman. Indeed the clown who freaked out at the sight of the gun might just testify against YOU; how would you like those apples?


Once outside, and in the car, if you are not too drunk, call the Sheriff. This is one of the times I would, normally it's to be avoided. Then I would put my ccw in an accessible place if I couldn't just go altogether. Come after me with a chainsaw, RangerT's coming your way.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:18:45 AM EDT
I woulda backed up if he was only 2 feet away. He gets shot if he takes one step closer, starts winding up for a swing with the saw or looks like he is going to lunge. But it probably woulda been justified if you could get others in the bar to testify that it obvious it wasn't a practical joke and the guy was being aggressive with the running chainsaw.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:14:36 PM EDT
uh not quite clear on that story.

A note: In texas, we can't carry in bars. Drunk/Buzzed + Gun = Bad.

That being said. If the guy was threatening me or someone else, like about to attack them with the thing, then yes I'd have no choice but to shoot him.

As soon as he walked in there with a running chainsaw my gun would be drawn and on him. No shooting unless attacked.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:20:44 PM EDT
Ya'll fight it out. I hang in the back with the chicks.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:23:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Ya'll fight it out. I hang in the back with the chicks.



Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:26:31 PM EDT
Depending on how close the assailant was he defiantly had the ability to inflict bodily harm or death, if the subject was in five-six feet of me and I have reason to believe he has the wrong intentions I’m drawling down on him, and if need be I wont hesitate to use deadly force to protect my life
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:26:35 PM EDT
Getting out of there is the only answer in Texas...you'd better not be carrying in a bar or anywhere that derives 51% of their revenue in alcohol sales.

HH
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:29:03 PM EDT
This is why I don't go to bars...
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:32:36 PM EDT
I wouldn't have shot him even if he threatend me.......cause it's illegal to carry a gun anyplace that sells and serves alcohol so I wouldn't have a gun to shot him with.


Now I would defiantely try to stab him in the eye with one of those cocktail sword thingys or an umbrella if I could get close enough and not get Texas chainsaw massacred
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:42:53 PM EDT
I would have sent my knife wielding monkey to take care of business…
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:45:36 PM EDT
About 20 years ago I had a coworker who was hit on by another guy while at a bar, and the coworker responded by going out to his vehicle and coming back in with a chain saw, which he fired up and proceeded to tell the guy while revving the saw up what would happen to his hand if he touched the coworker with it again. The coworker was not quite balanced, you could say..........
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:46:18 PM EDT
I wouldn't have shot him if alcohol was present you shouldn't have been carrying. you should always follow the law even if it means getting cut by a chainsaw you were wrong for carrying it was your fault





­
I trying to adjust my views to be more like the rest of you



I don't like what I've become
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:52:54 PM EDT
Colorado is so much smarter. You can carry in bars, but not while intoxicated.

So you can make the "Designated Driver" your bodyguard
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:54:22 PM EDT


the DA would sell tickets for the hayride they'd have all over your ass for shooting while intoxicated, doesn't matter if it was justified or not.


Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:59:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carhlr:
I wouldn't have shot him if alcohol was present you shouldn't have been carrying. you should always follow the law even if it means getting cut by a chainsaw you were wrong for carrying it was your fault

I trying to adjust my views to be more like the rest of you

I don't like what I've become



Bitter much?

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:01:51 PM EDT
Depend on what kinda chainsaw it was. Was it a good one? Was the chain rusty and dull or shiny and sharp? This would affect my choise. That kinda stuff is kinda normal around my part of no-where
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:06:06 PM EDT
It is legal to CCW in a restaurant that serves alcohol in KY.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:11:35 PM EDT
DITTO!!!! For Indiana


Originally Posted By KyBlaster:
It is legal to CCW in a restaurant that serves alcohol in KY.

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:14:58 PM EDT
Are you sure this really happened???
I dont see that we made any runs to the Duck in the last 25 days and I would think that if someone came into a bar with a chainsaw at least someone would call the Police...especially some drunk college girls that get all freaked out.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:17:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 1:18:47 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
Whether he got shot or not would depend entirely on what he does after I point my gun at him. Probably legal to shoot him right off the bat, but not a good idea.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:30:27 PM EDT
a crazy guy with a running chainsaw.. damn if he took a step towards anyone in a threatening manner i'd have dropped him in an instant...

if it wasnt running there isnt to much of a threat... but while its running... its an instant death machine for anything it touches.... yeah you threaten me(or anyone) with a running chainsaw... you get dropped...
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:37:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackhandy:
DITTO!!!! For Indiana


Originally Posted By KyBlaster:
It is legal to CCW in a restaurant that serves alcohol in KY.




I guarantee it happend. There were only 5 guys there, plus the maniac, plus the bartender, plus the 3 guys that got chased out. Why nobody called the law, I don't know. Chainsaws are pretty loud. One would think that a neighbor would have called with that noise at 11 o'clock at night. By the time things de-escalated to the point I could have called, there wasn't much point in it.

Regarding retreating: We were backed into a corner of the room...wern't no place to go and no way to get away. When some drunken asshole has a running chainsaw, making jabs at you, and your backed into a corner, I guarantee you won't be thinking about calling the cops and waiting for them to show up!

As far as the legality of carrying in Indiana, packing.org shows no mention of restuaunts serving alcohol, or even bars.

Places off-limits while carrying
Date updated: Jul 28, 2005 @ 7:24 pm

In or On School Property.
On A School Bus.
In or On Property That Is Being Used By A School For A School Function.
Private School (IC 20-9.1-1-3) & (IC 35-41-1-24.7).
Head Start (IC 35-41-1-24.7
Preschool (IC 35-41-1-24.7).
IC 35-47-9-1 Allows the carry of firearms by persons permitted to possess and who are transporting a person to or from school or a school function.
On an Aircraft.
Controlled Access Areas Of An Airport
A Riverboat Casino.
During Annual State Fair 80 IAC 4-4-4 (Must lock in Vehicle.)
Shipping Port 130 IAC 4-1-8 (Controlled by the Indiana Port Commission)

Admin note
68 IAC 1-7-1 (b)(d) This section Covers Firearms and Casinos and states only LEO's and Security can carry. It also states they must give you a place to secure your firearm if you wish to come aboard.

Kentucky: You can carry into a resturant that sells alcohol, but not into the portion of that establishment which is primarily designated for the serving of alcohol. ie...you can carry into Tumbleweed but you can't go into the bar section.

Evansville has one very lucky felon wandering around wasting oxygen today!
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:46:06 PM EDT
glad your OK.

i would have had your back


KSP

Businesses which dispense beer or other alcoholic beverages for consumption, excluding restaurants receiving 50% of sales from food purchases.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:07:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:26:33 PM EDT
Wasnt that I was truely doubting you but crazy things like that usually travel pretty fast around here. Either way glad your safe and glad I wasnt there to have to make the same decesion.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:40:00 PM EDT
I wouldn't have pulled out my handgun for show-and-tell at a bar.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:41:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gardenWeasel:
I wouldn't have pulled out my handgun for show-and-tell at a bar.



Well, that makes 3 of us.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 4:40:28 PM EDT
My first reaction would be to determine if he was palying a stupid drunk prank. But if I was carrying and I thought he was a real danger to anybody, than I would have shot. If I was ever carrying in a bar.

But then I've worked Security at Knotts Scary Farm the last 3 Halloweens and I'm used to seeing folks get chased with running chain saws.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:42:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
My first reaction would be to determine if he was palying a stupid drunk prank. But if I was carrying and I thought he was a real danger to anybody, than I would have shot. If I was ever carrying in a bar.

But then I've worked Security at Knotts Scary Farm the last 3 Halloweens and I'm used to seeing folks get chased with running chain saws.



Nope...no prank. This was the real deal. High pucker factor real deal.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:03:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
The duck inn in Evansville.



Man what were you doing in the Duck? You can find a better bar then that. Hell Fred's by Deaconess is better then the Duck.

Oh and BTW, Laying the gun out was wrong, don't pull it unless you intend to use it. Had the police been called, they would have been interested in the chainsaw guy sure but more interested in who pulled a gun.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:09:46 AM EDT
After reading the other thread, a drunken, chainsaw wielding idiot 2 feet away and threatening me would have gotten the old two to the chest and 1 to the head drill. In Texas that would be condsidered justifiable (although you most likely would get carted off to the pokey and spend the night there until the DA figured out what he wanted to do).
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:15:27 AM EDT
Is that called Brandishing.

Nice move by putting the gun on the bar.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:20:21 AM EDT
You can CCW in a bar in Utah but you can't be drinking if you do.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:41:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
Is that called Brandishing.

Nice move by putting the gun on the bar.



I had to, I couldn't open my fingers. I had a death grip on it!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:49:08 PM EDT
You can carry in bars in WA.


red states
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:58:00 PM EDT
We can carry in bars here in Virginia but not concealed. Has to be open carry. Makes no sence.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:04:12 PM EDT
Wait, by "in a corner", do you mean he made you all back into a corner? or were you already sitting in a corner?

I'm reading this as idiot runs into bar with chainsaw running, doesn't see idiot who pissed him off, yells a little, realizes he's left, leaves.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:07:49 PM EDT
If someone is threatening you with a running chainsaw at that distance then the law should be the least of your worries.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:24:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:
Wait, by "in a corner", do you mean he made you all back into a corner? or were you already sitting in a corner?

I'm reading this as idiot runs into bar with chainsaw running, doesn't see idiot who pissed him off, yells a little, realizes he's left, leaves.



We were sitting in a corner. He ran the other guy out the front door, then he turns around and starts hollering at the rest of us and reving the damn thing up. I could see the little power trip he was on in his eyes. He thought he had life and death power over us. I knew better, because J Moses had my back.

He finally chills out and turns the saw off. Somebody says the cops are outside so the bartender put the saw in the back room. As soon as the cops drove off, the guy got his saw and left.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:
Wait, by "in a corner", do you mean he made you all back into a corner? or were you already sitting in a corner?

I'm reading this as idiot runs into bar with chainsaw running, doesn't see idiot who pissed him off, yells a little, realizes he's left, leaves.



We were sitting in a corner. He ran the other guy out the front door, then he turns around and starts hollering at the rest of us and reving the damn thing up. I could see the little power trip he was on in his eyes. He thought he had life and death power over us. I knew better, because J Moses had my back.

He finally chills out and turns the saw off. Somebody says the cops are outside so the bartender put the saw in the back room. As soon as the cops drove off, the guy got his saw and left.



What the hell?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:28:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 3:36:39 PM EDT by pcsutton]

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
The duck inn in Evansville.



Man what were you doing in the Duck? You can find a better bar then that. Hell Fred's by Deaconess is better then the Duck.

Oh and BTW, Laying the gun out was wrong, don't pull it unless you intend to use it. Had the police been called, they would have been interested in the chainsaw guy sure but more interested in who pulled a gun.



The Duck Inn usually is fun. As far as 'laying the gun on the bar'...it had been in my hand at my side all through the ordeal. When the guy left, I pretty much just laid it on the bar for about 3 or 4 seconds to be putting it down out of relief. I had been gripping it so tightly that it was hard to open my hand. No poop!

ETA: try this.....grip your 1911 in your hand, down at your side at arms length, and squeeze it really hard for 2 or 3 minutes straight....then try and put it back into an IWB holster under a buttoned up jacket. You might be able to do it....but it's way harder than it sounds. Your fingers don't want to cooperate.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:31:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
If someone is threatening you with a running chainsaw at that distance then the law should be the least of your worries.



My thoughts exactly. Some of these guys believe someone shouldn't be able to protect themselves if they have a beer or two.

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