who treat them like crap.  I've decided that this is the rule, not the exception.

Recently a very close friend of mine called me to tell her that her fiance had dumped her, on Valintine's Day no less (and apparently he had walked out on her once before in the previous 6 months). Meanwhile they were ready to send out wedding invitations when he dumped her.

We spent a lot of time talking about the relationship, she met me out in California (I was out there on business) and I spent some time taking her sight seeing (purely platonic relationship).

We've spoken a regularly since we returned to our homes (we live 2000 miles apart).

She's an incredibly intelligent, well-centered person with an excellent idea of her own self-worth. She's concerned about her future, but she's always had a very good understanding of life. She was afraid that she'd have trouble finding a date (one of those very attractive women who don't give themselves credit for their appearance), but she's had numerous opportunities, so that fear went away.

I get an email today from her in which she expresses how good a weekend she had. Why? Because she spent most of it with the moron who had walked out on her!

He ripped her heart out, and now she tells me that "they haven't discuussed getting back together" and she's "living for the moment." But that spending time with him "was wonderful."

I give up.

Frustrating isn't it.
I have 2 friends exactly like that.

lemme know what you figure out.

David -

I know exactly what you mean.  I'm watching a good friend in the same situation here.   I don't get it, but many women seem to love guys who treat them like shit, and once hurt, they still go running back for more.  OTOH, if you treat them half-decently they think you're either gay or not interested.  WTF?

Let me know if you figure it out; I could certainly use some enlightenment.  I was taught by my parents to be chivalrous and always treat women with respect.  Maybe thats why I'm single - I'm not about to change though.

I discovered this years ago.  I have been told that nice guys are 'no challenge' to women.  My response was that there are enough challenges in life, we don't need to create more.  They have to go after the jerks to try and rehabilate them.

The women in my life that I have treated nicely walked all over me.  The ones that I have acted like I was not interested in or treated them bad, would do anything to get my attention.  It is too freaking wierd and it gets old.

Very sad....but true. The Wolf met a woman a couple of years ago, who was put into the hospital by her "man". She decides to leave him, after the second time she went there, because he broke her arm. She was even so afraid of the dude, she went out and bought a gun. Her and I dated for about 8 months and I discovered that she was everything that I ever looked for. She runs into ex-dude one day and he sweet talks her into getting back together with him (leaving me ass out). After 2 wks, he starts beating her again and I guess she hasnt been happier. Supposedly they are getting married sometime this summer. I am starting to wonder....instead of bringing a woman flowers, maybe I should bring a baseball bat?

Right on the money but you also forgot to mention women like men who are fat and rich.  Why?  They soon will die, leaving all the worldly posessions.

Don't give up guys, there are a few good ones left.  I found one who responded favorably to my chivalrous actions...the only thing that's in question is her dietary "rules".  She claims to be a vegetarian yet eats fish.  Ok, as long as she doesn't impose on me.

I did react in a not-so nice guy method by collecting deadfall for the campfire, much to her dismay.  I wasn't about to cook my steaks over a propane stove :D  !

I have noticed the same thing.  You don't even have to be mean just ignore them a bit and you can't beat them off with a stick. (Note I don't hit women with sticks). Maybe they think you are better then they deserve when you treat them bad. This seem to work more with younger women.Older women seem to see the error of their ways.

I have known two girls that were abused by their boyfriends.  I both cases I offered to help them move thier stuff and I even offered to bumb rush one of the guys.  In both cases the women went right back to guys that hit them.

Another sad story.  I was friends with a girl complained about her boy friend hitting on her friends and even her sisters.  This guy even screwed some of her friends and she still kept going back.
Maybe one of the women on the board can shed some light on this.

Sad but true. I have seen this over and over with too many friends.

One friend has been with a jackass for a long time and keeps going back to him if he even pretends to still like her.

Another just keeps going out with a guy who treats her like an object and wants to control every thing she does to the point that he wanted to rumble with me for talking to her [that woulda' been fun].

I find it interesting that the cockier I act around women, the more they want to be with me. It really disapoints me when I act like Mr. Nice Guy and the gals seem less interested. I have always been very polite and chivalrous and am not going to change, but sheesh. . . you almost gotta' act like an overconfident jackass to get noticed.

I had a few chuckles about this because I think it happens a lot. I see it all the time and you have
to wonder what the heck is going on in the mind of
a woman.
Of course the other side to this is that one of the guys who treats them like a princess gets booted the first time he does something she doesn't like. "What, you forgot our 7th month and 22nd day anniversary? You're dirt get out."

trust me I know allllll about this , and they say were stupid, who's the moron who chose some loser over the guy who actually cared.

but I did find a solution to it. [:)]

recipe: the other guy + baseball bat. then you are the bad guy and they come crawling back, in which case you prominantly dump after a week to move on. make them feel like they made you feel, and it works everytime. [}:D]

There is an old saying, "Treat a Lady like a whore and a whore like a lady." Some say it works every time!

Another is "Goddesses, Whores, Wives and Slaves..define the difference!"

Hell, id be happy just finding a woman that wants to actually work for a living.
Instead of loafing around expecting their significant other to make all the money .

YOu are all 100% correct!!!

There was a book written about this..
"nice guys don't get laid"
If you are nice and treat her with respect, you get..ZERO.

Paraphrased from the book-
Women have the following traits that go off when dealing with Mr.Abuse-
1.Challenge
2.Need to take care of-Jerks become the ultimate adult doll..they have to save them!!
3.Self Depreciation-women remember every negative comment EVER said to them.,..so to make up being this bad, they can rise above it by being with the jerk..they think they deserve it!
The book is funny..but true.(search for it and read it..it's a kick!) These days, you can be the world's biggest jerk..and they all come back for more!!

You should of fucked her when you had the chance.   [sex]

Single men cannot have non-platonic relationships with women.  Its either women you have fucked, women you want to fuck, or women you will fuck when drunk enough [BD]

Quit being a sally, and let women know what you want, which is to be in the panties.  

April fools,

c-rock

I know a guy that claims that women have been gentically conditioned to respond to men who are not nice, abusive or whatever. According to him, women were essentially property up until the last couple centuries and men could beat, abuse or even kill them with little chance of consequences. The only option was to try to be more pleasing and hope it worked. In more primitive times, even if she were just cast out of the tribe, the most likely result would be death. So putting up with this crap may be the remnants of an evolutionary survival trait.

This guy also says that a lot of human behavior is influenced by evolution. Like, "Men won't stop and ask directions", because for thousands of years, attempting to ask directions of a stranger could get a man kille(Stranger=enemy). And "women go to to the restroom in groups" because it was hard to squat in the bushes and watch for the sabertoothed tiger all alone, the extra women made it safer.
Makes a kind of sense to me, but I won't claim it as gospel either.

Don in Ohio

Also as long as she eats a little protein once a while, that is fine. [;)]
c-rock

bullshit.  i just love it when MEN think they can explain the actions/motivations/thoughts of a woman!!!!!



NOT!!!!!  if she had half an idea of her own self worth she wouldn't have spent a weekend with him after he dumped her.  it's exactly because she feels so little self-worth that she spent the weekend with him.  she needs him to validate her own existence.

as psycho-babblish as this will sound, women are conditioned to this behavior unless they have a role model of some sort to follow.  when you think about it, it's really not that hard to understand.  there are no positive, real-life scenarios played out before the little girls of this world.  instead, we get bombarded with fantasy, happily-ever-after bullshit from the day we're born.  we grow up expecting the fairy tale romance.  it's every where:  television sitcoms, movies, magazines, books, internet.  when a woman grows up defining herself/self worth by the presence of a mate, she learns to accept anyone to fill that role.  it becomes much more important to have a mate (any mate) than to have a good one.  for so many women who fit the "likes to be treated like shit" bill, it's not that they like to be treated like shit, but that it's better to be treated like shit than not to be treated (loved) at all.

women are motivated by emotions more so than men.  so what looks stupid in your eyes based on logic and rational reasoning makes makes perfect sense to a woman who is basing her decision on predominantly emotion.  but you're not thinking like a women when you pass judgement on her.  just as a woman can not understand the machinations of a man because of the analytical/emotional motivational difference.  

let me add that women aren't stupid for being motivated by emotions more than men are.  that's just the way we are.  what makes women stupid is when emotion is the [i]only[/i] criteria they use when making a decision.  i know first hand what your friend was going through.  it took me a long time to realize that i was less happy with someone who treated me so poorly than if i were alone.  i also realized that i had to know myself and love myself first.  without that most important thing, it was easy to let others treat me poorly.  

this subject is a little bit too involved for a single post, and i'm not even sure half of you guys really care about the truth.  suffice it to say, that aside from the S&M chicks, i can't think of one female who would prefer a guy to treat her like shit over one who didn't.

Yep.  Had some experience with that.  Girl I loved dumped me for some asshole who beat her, cheated on her, gave her chylamidia.  She said she had never been so deeply in love, wanted to marry him.

Watched my sister dump the nicest guy in the world because he was "boring".  She married an ogre who made her life a living hell, a man who I would love to kill if I knew I could get away with it.

Knowing this about women makes me certain that that guy with the $10,000 reward website for finding him a wife (the guy who loves Oprah and who makes friends with women easier than men?) will die alone.

Well if that's true, why is it that so many men see women rejecting the love of "nice guys" (like myself) for abusive assholes?

I don't think they leave for the asshole because they're afraid of not being loved.  It just seems like the quality of love they want can't be found in a caring and mutally loving relationship, because it's BORING.

I have to disagree, respectfully.  As noted in many posts, a lot of women have a nice guy who treats them with respect and kindness, and the WILL dump him for an asshole.  Is everybody who has posted to this thread lying?

ARlady -

I've known this woman for a few years. We've been as close as two people can be without being involved physically. I've seen her in all sorts of situations, and handle all sorts of relationships.

The first thing I thought about the relationship she's supposedly getting over was that it ws entirely out of character for her. Nothing about it seemed like any relationshipo she had ever had before.

This guy played her perfectly (and I don't think it was even concious on his part). He was everything she ever wanted in a partner. She is a very critical person about her prospective partners (and she's in her 30's; not a kid) and this guy got past all of her defenses. She fell hard for him.

Intellectually she knows that he is not right for her. She knows that he can't be trusted. She knows that she loves him, and she'll probably end up giving him another chance, blinded by that love that her intellectual side can't control.

And in a year I'll get another phone call, with her telling me she's pregnant and that he's gone again.

I'm not passing judgement on her. It's not my place to do so.

In fact the message I sent her said "It sounds like you’re finding some peace and satisfaction in your life now. It’s really good to hear that; I was worried about your recovery, but it seems like you’ve discovered your path.

I think that’s my cue to fade back into the background. You know where to find me if you ever need to talk."

She has to accept her own choices; nothing I can say will change that. I will continue to be her friend.

What scares me most about this is that I'll soon be back in the world looking for a partner. And if someone I knew as well as I know this women turned out to another person who needed to be treated poorly to respond to someone, I doubt I'll ever be able to find someone for myself.  And that's incredibly depressing for me.

If that's the case I should just stay in my already bad marriage; since I told my wife I wanted to talk about divorce she's been nicer to me than she has in the last 8 years.

I know all women aren't like this. I'm just beginning to believe that most are. And I well know the difference between logic and emotion when it comes to rationalizing behavior.

She remains my friend, and I'll be there when she needs me. And I'll never say "I told you so."  That's all I can do, but it still hurts me to see her do this.

I have to agree with ARLady on this one.  Women who stay with men that treat them like sh!t usually have low self esteem.  Sure they may be rock solid in other areas, but still insecure in the relationship area.  I have seen this in many, many woman and they always go back for more.  Usually they do grow older and realize they deserve better.

Remember, men basically marry their mothers and woman marry their fathers........so how they are treated growing up will tell you alot about what type of mate they will be drawn to. And if there was no father around it just gets worse.

My .02 cents

Sgtar15

respectfully, guys, if you ain't never been a woman, you won't/can't understand.

i can't explain why a woman would leave a loving, caring man for an abusive one.  i've suffice it to say that i am 100% sure that it is NOT because she wants to wear a shiner with pride.  some women can't handle postiive love and attention.  they feel uncomfortable with it.  if they have a really really low opinion of themselves, they probably feel like they don't deserve such a good mate.  the low self-esteem that keeps a woman in a bad relationship is also the same low self-esteem that will prevent her from forming strong, positive relationships.  she's pushed from the good, and driven to the bad.  it's a cycle. you see the same general behaviors in children who have been abused all of their lives: boys and girls alike.  they have a hard time bonding positively with people because of their own feelings of self-worth.

like i said, i really don't expect you guys to understand this.  first, you already believe what you want to believe.  second, you think rationally and cannot comprehend the emotional motivations of a woman.  what motivates her is probably totally foreign to you.  and finally, [b]You're a MAN![/b].  you don't know what it's like being a woman.  you can't think like a woman, you can't feel like a woman, you can't understand a woman.

DavidC, i hope you don't think i was criticizing your opinions of her or your actions.  from what you've said, i think you've done what you can.

i know what i say is true because i'm living proof of the stupid things women do.  i KNOW the motivations behind sticking with loser men.  i know the torment of not having a mate, of knowing that the guy you're with is so wrong for you, but being too scared to take the step to do the right thing.  i know.  i've been there.

hi this is mrs.caveman, i just registered. i'm waiting for my password.  Thought i'd sy somethings here. Been there and all that hoopla. got a good man now. Also it depends on the men and women in each relationship. Some women do it to change a man. Some because they have no self-esteem. If children involved some stay because of the children. My ex was a real jerk and used the kids to get what he wanted. The real jerks make them think they can't live or survive without them. Also when they want out it also depends on the law and state your in.  In my case the law was on his side.  This woman has to let something really serious happen before she'll stop going back, because she probably thinks she can still change him. get real.

OH NO. She's here........ya'll are in trouble now[:D]

My woman used to abuse and beat me but I sorta kinda liked it.[;)]

Seriously though,

Every time we would [argue] she would wind up swearing I was the [devil] himself, then she would get really [pissed] and would [stick] me if she got the chance.

Funny, no matter how [pissed] I ever got at her, even though I might want to [stick] her I never, ever stooped to such an [BD] [B)] level.

Since I am a very sensitive kinda guy I cannot imagine [stick] a person that you claim to love and that you share an intimate bond with.  Wanting to do it is one thing.  Actually [stick] it is another.

Of course my wife was [whacko] and it was she who was the [devil] incarnate.

The screwed psychology of it is that I still miss her [V]............eventhough her ability to have a normal, healthy relationship was totally [whacko].

I honestly think she liked to be in [BD] [B)]  realtionships by one means or another.  Seems like if there was no [spank] [stick] [smash] going on she was not happy.

Splain' that to me!

 

Guys, it's very true.  *Most* broads todays are cheap crap, do not deserve nor appreciate being treated nice. A good, decent,moral and virtuous woman is definitely a minority within her gender!

Why do you think so many of these cheap throw away f*ck toys like Bill Clinton so much?  He could urinate right on their faces and they would say "No, Bill didn't do that, it's raining!" The most absurd, ignorant, low class and trashy defenses of this Piece of shit have been from women here in the NY area!  I wouldn't give most of them the sweat off of my balls!

IN order to preserve what is left of our decaying country I think it would be smart to revoke the 19th amendment to the US Constitution.  This way these cheap stupid cunts could not be allowed into the voting booth to do further damage!  After all, if they don't care about our 2nd amendment rights (as polling data reveals) I say fuck their rights as well!

Most women are just plain crap.  Nuff said!

Here is an example of how women think.  I had this girlfriend awhile back who moved in with me.  I had known her for years and she had gone through two abusive marriages.  After her last divorce, we started dating and she said she was ready for a nice guy instead of an asshole.  After she moved in, I learned that she was an alky.  One night we were having a disagreement and she was trying her best to piss me off.  Finally, she said "why don't you get mad and hit me.  At least I know how to deal with that.  I can't take this with you staying calm and not hitting me."  The next day, I packed her stuff and took her to a friends house where she stayed until she found her own place.  I was not going to be placed in a situation where the cops would have to be called because no matter what happened, I would probably wind up in jail.  Now, that is some screwed up crap, but it is not far removed from how many women think.

Coming from you, I take that as a very high compliment SinistralRifleman.......you da man when it comes to creative pics and such!

Geez, I must be the nicest guy in the world, considering how hostile all womenz are to me. Oh except the ones that want something, like that one rep at the autoparts store trying to get me to buy that slick50 stuff.

I have this theory.........chicks are freaks.

Bobby Brady once asked his brother "How come girls do such dumb things and they don't even know their dumb?"

Peter replied "Cause their dumb."

From the APA's Diagnostic, Statistic Manual, this fits certain characteristics of [b]Borderline Personality Disorder[/b], the formerly accepted psychological diagnosis which describes [i]many[/i] in the female population. It later became un-PC because it was appropriately stigmitizing & far too accurate. The APA later dropped it from the DSM series, probably to avoid damaging those individuals' "self-esteem".

The borderline profile was articulately coined in the title of a book on the subject - "I hate you, don't leave me".

Sound familiar[?]...[stick]

'Nuff said.

[size=6]I wish women came with user's manuals....[/size=6]




[peep]      [peep]       [peep]

truer words were never spoken, I have seen this phenominon numerouse times. the one thatt stands out the most is a co-worker of my wifes, she is drop dead gorgouse, and sweet as pie, her ex, then again, then ex, and now again is an a$$ hole in the truest sence of the word, he "lovingly" provides her with both physical and mental abuse. one time her and the kids showed up at our house in the middle of the night, she was crying and bleeding, he showed up about a half hour later and forced his way into my house. after I explained to him that was a bad idea,(didnt shoot but I really wanted to) I had to settle for giving him a free nose job. she ran to his side, hugged him and told him "she" was sorry. I called the cops and he said he wanted to press assault charges on me, fortunately the officers had dealt with him before and told him to get F#%&*d and get lost.
the nextt day she quit her job and we havent heard from her since.
the moral of this story "women must raelly like being treated like $hit"

[:)>]

Goodness, this is a tough one for a gun board.
Anyway, I think that, in general, women prefer men.  There are exceptions out there, and I'm not fully convinced that lesbians choose other women entirely due to their environment.  Some speculate that male homos have different sized ventricles in their brains.  There have been data that support this, but I tend to think that although certain dudes are predisposed, there must be a trigger.

Having said this, that women prefer men, I will carry on this nature/nurture concept one step further and propose that environment has a lot to do with what sort of mates women choose.  Yes, there are drunken moments when a girl just wants someone for the night, but, in general, I think that women tend to choose something familiar, and because of this familiarity, comfortable.  

So hard to group 1/2 of our poplulation, with "all women" this, or "all women" that.  I've been through a series of great relationships that have ended for reasons that range from a fundamental, irreconcilable difference in philosophy to moving far away to messy living quarters to infidelity.  Each relationship has been as different as each woman.  Each great, but each unusual.  I don't think that there is much that is usual, aside from certain Western gentlemanly standards (walking curbside), and certain society-imposed standards (flowers on 2/14).  Having said this, I will recommend Desmond Morris to anyone who is interested in a biologist/anthropologist/sociologist view on "universal" features that attract:  a woman's perception of ability to provide, to protect, to fertilize. . . I think that the fine tuning must be adapted to each woman.  

Attracted to these bozos who act like jerks?  Yes, some women tend to be.  Who needs 'em?  Jerks need 'em.  If a guy is a jerk, then there is hope for him among these self-destructive women, but I don't think that a guy who doesn't have any luck with gettin' some is going to increase his chances by acting like a jerk.  He just turns in to a guy who is single for a reason:  he's a jerk.

All the new boyfriends of our ex-girlfriends, and the ex-girlfriends of our buddies are A-Holes.  They suck, and we'll never like 'em.  Also, I think that it is natural for us to despise the mate of any woman that we're attracted to.  These men are competitors, and we resent them and their anecdotes.  I don't think that this bitterness should cause people to start acting brutally and mean, though.  

Go out and play the game that you and your buddies used to play at the bar, or at the beach, or at a party, that goes something like:  I betcha can't get that girls number. . .

Find out about each woman, and what makes her tick.  Each woman has her buttons in and out of bed; and if a person becomes preoccupied with focusing on one type of woman, a type of woman that he finds bizarre and self-abusive, then he's gonna live with either a woman who's a constant handful because she's such a freak, or he will always sleep alone, feeling smug about the sour grapes.    

You can have my brother's wife.  He's done with her.

Not all nice guys are boring. But most boring guys are nice. They have to be or they would would never get laid.

I got to poke an abusive drunken ex-husband in the forehead with the muzzle of my Sig P220 once. It was a very satisfying moment to see the stupid, sotted, enraged look in his eyes turn to abject terror and the wish to be anywhere but in the doorway of his restraining-order-having ex-wife's apartment.

DavidC, I had this exact choice to make 7 years ago.  My marriage of 5 years was on the rocks...no sex for literally months at a time.  We weren't at each other throats or anything, but the relationship had devolved into that of bad roommates, despite my personal efforts and marriage counseling.  So I finally decided to pull the trigger and bail out.  I've been single ever since.  At first the lack of simple companionship was tough to bear, but once I got over that I was fine.  I've learned to take advantage of the sheer independence of being single.  But most of all, and the thing that ultimately pushed me over the edge, I still believe I'll find the right woman and when I do I'll be available.

That's my $0.02 worth...

-kill-9

Quoted:
[b]bullshit.  i just love it when MEN think they can explain the actions/motivations/thoughts of a woman!!!!![/b]
You're of course right, they can't. But neither can women explain "the actions/motivations/thoughts of a woman!!!!"

[b]women are motivated by emotions more so than men.  so what looks stupid in your eyes based on logic and rational reasoning makes makes perfect sense to a woman who is basing her decision on predominantly emotion.[/b]  

In other words women are stupid. This from  headlines of last week.

Public release date: 29-Mar-2002
University of California - Los Angeles

UCLA study shows contracting HIV can serve as an opportunity for positive change and growth

Contracting HIV would be a devastating experience for anyone. However, a new UCLA study suggests that many HIV-positive individuals believe that their infection and its life-threatening consequence served as a personal milestone that positively changed many aspects of their lives.
The UCLA study, published in the current issue of the journal Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, found that HIV-positive women in the Los Angeles area believe that in addition to negative feelings about being infected with a life-threatening condition, becoming HIV-positive also served as the impetus to live a healthier life, with new priorities and a stronger focus on positive emotional and personal issues.

“We learned that these women, some of whom have been dealing with the effects of HIV infection for years, report many positive changes in their lives in addition to drawbacks,” said UCLA researcher John Updegraff, the lead author of the study.

“Despite the fact that HIV is life-threatening, and causes tremendous financial and social burdens, these women found that coping with HIV infection made them feel wiser, stronger and more focused on the issues that truly matter to them, such as their families, their children or their community,” Updegraff said.

The UCLA study based its findings on interviews with a multiethnic sample of 189 women from the Los Angeles area. The participants were asked a range of questions that focused on how being HIV-positive had changed their lives.

[b]The study found that 75 percent of the women felt that their views of themselves had changed for the better since learning they were infected with HIV.[/b] Further, more than half of the women (53 percent) felt that being HIV-positive had changed their life priorities for the best as well. [b]Overall, the number of benefits reported by women in the survey was almost double the number of drawbacks.[/b]


Maybe some pharmaceutical can market HIV injections to women as an anti-depressant and make a mint.

I was waiting for a woman to finally sound off on this issue. It is flat out wrong to say that all or even most women want a man who will treat her badly...

It is correct to say most of the women WE HAVE MET fall into this category... [rolleyes] I've seen this scenario play itself out over and over among my female friends and acquaintances. I did learn that appearing as though you could take or leave a woman seems to make you more attractive to many. I've gotten more "attention" since I figured that out. I won't claim to explain it.