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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/29/2005 2:33:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 3:07:07 PM EDT by fullclip]
As expected the price pof gas has jumped about 30 cents here, on news of the hurricane hitting land. Now we know the oil that was purchased has not been delivered yet, but the already refined gas in now more valuable to the sellers. We all know the story and theory on this, so lets go on.

This translates into profits for oil companies and producers. But is it fair or legal?

So, is it time for congress to get involved and hold hearings to study excessive profits and possibly racketering? Unfair business practices, possibly price gouging?

Would you be for a windfall profit tax, similar to the tax Regan pushed in the early 80's? www.platts.com/Oil/News/4396730.xml?p=Oil/News&S=n

Or just gut up and ride out the storm? Opinions, please... fullclip

Edit: To make it clear, Free Market, let it run is my vote. Carter nearly ruined us, no more of that.... fullclip
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:39:37 PM EDT
Price controls....that will solve everything. The American sheeple are asking for it. If we bitch enough the tyrants will do something even if it's wrong. That's politics. Let the oil companies make plenty of money....oh no wait....some greedy management whore would stick it in his pocket!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:41:22 PM EDT
Where were you when the energy industry was hurting in the mid-80's and 1997-1998? Energy producers aren't entitled to profits in good times?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:48:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Where were you when the energy industry was hurting in the mid-80's and 1997-1998? Energy producers aren't entitled to profits in good times?



I worked oill rigs from the time I could tie my steel toe boots until the bust of the eighties put me into a new line of work. Been around it in some fashion all my life.

Free Market guy myself, still convinced that the goodtimes will bust as it always does. Just a matter of when.

Where do you stand? .. fullclip
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:53:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fullclip:
As expected the price pof gas has jumped about 30 cents here, on news of the hurricane hitting land. Now we know the oil that was purchased has not been delivered yet, but the already refined gas in now more valuable to the sellers. We all know the story and theory on this, so lets go on.

This translates into profits for oil companies and producers. But is it fair or legal?

So, is it time for congress to get involved and hold hearings to study excessive profits and possibly racketering? Unfair business practices, possibly price gouging?

Would you be for a windfall profit tax, similar to the tax Regan pushed in the early 80's? www.platts.com/Oil/News/4396730.xml?p=Oil/News&S=n

Or just gut up and ride out the storm? Opinions, please... fullclip



You clearly don't understand basic economics. Price controls don’t work and never have. Do you remember the effects of Carters policies… double digit unemployment, double digit inflation, and damn near 20% interest rates.

"Fair and legal"... are you joking how much did you invest in developing those oil assets. If you wanted to take a chance on sharing oil company profits you should have bought some stock instead of advocating stealing disguised as fairness.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:56:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:59:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 3:02:31 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By fullclip:

Originally Posted By raven:
Where were you when the energy industry was hurting in the mid-80's and 1997-1998? Energy producers aren't entitled to profits in good times?



I worked oill rigs from the time I could tie my steel toe boots until the bust of the eighties put me into a new line of work. Been around it in some fashion all my life.

Free Market guy myself, still convinced that the goodtimes will bust as it always does. Just a matter of when.

Where do you stand? .. fullclip



OK, you worked in the oil industry and had to see the short end of low prices. I'm for non-interference and let the market take care of things like it always does.

My point in my last post was wondering if you were calling for the government to do something because your ox was being gored at the pump. Anybody care about the recessions that hit states dependent on the oil industry like AK, TX, LA, OK, and WY when prices are low? Most people don't give a damn about that or the fortunes of oil companies when prices are low, but some cry bloody murder when oil companies are making good profits in the course of natural price fluctuation.

High prices give oil companies incentive to go out and find more oil and increase production to maximize their profits. Doing so increases supply and helps drive prices lower.

When prices are low, they cut costs and cut back risky exploration. This cuts back supply and raises prices.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:05:33 PM EDT
OK, I guess I should have made my opinion known in my origional post. I was looking for opinions from others, so it's only fair to post mine first, will edit post.

But like I said in my second post, Free Market, let it run. The good times will bust, it always does. ..Fullclip

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:08:25 PM EDT
if you think the price of gas is too high, don't buy it
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:09:48 PM EDT
Jesus
you guys want the government to leave you alone but now you want the government to punish the oil companies? If you want to tax the oil complex when energy is high, then how about them taxing you when energy is cheap. Commies
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:11:38 PM EDT
I replied free market.

I just don't believe the market is ever free, really. Too many people dickin' with everything.

One thing that really pissed me off was a story in the Friday (?) New York Post about the Saudi stock market. It seems that their market is at an all time high - wonder why? But thinking about the whahabbis(sp?), 9/11, and our boys and girls in the sandbox makes their fantastic market gains rub me the wrong way.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:16:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:18:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scoutabout:
Jesus
you guys want the government to leave you alone but now you want the government to punish the oil companies? If you want to tax the oil complex when energy is high, then how about them taxing you when energy is cheap. Commies



Did you not see my Free Market answer? .. fullclip
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:18:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 3:21:12 PM EDT by PromptCritical]
Not an economist here, but the reason the prices are going up is a real, or perceived, drop on supply. Prices go up, but sales will go down, due to not having enough oil. The oil companies will make more per gallon, but will sell less gallons, so overall profits will probably not change that much. if making more money per gallon was all those eeeevil oil industry corporate execs wanted, we would already be paying $5 a gallon.

On another note, I want to develope a cure for AIDS and sell it for $1,000,000 per dose. Everyone will hate me. Tough.

Edited to add: Rising fossil fuel prices will spur more development of alternative sources of energy. Solar power is getting cheaper by the year and will eventually be competitive.

John Galt is my hero.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:20:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
if you think the price of gas is too high, don't buy it



those of us where driving is a job requirement have no choice.



Who pays for the gas in your job? You or the employer? If employer, no big deal, If you then you're taking a pay cut. Ask for a raise to counterbalance the gas hike or if you're happy with the pay cut do nothing, if you're unhappy with it, look for a job elsewhere.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:22:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
if you think the price of gas is too high, don't buy it



those of us where driving is a job requirement have no choice.



Who pays for the gas in your job? You or the employer? If employer, no big deal, If you then you're taking a pay cut. Ask for a raise to counterbalance the gas hike or if you're happy with the pay cut do nothing, if you're unhappy with it, look for a job elsewhere.



Costs of fuel get passed on to the consumer. Businesses that can't compete lose out. Always stay competitive.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:22:40 PM EDT
Yeah, dust off Tricky Dick's price controls. They worked. Or that Peanut Guy's plan. I just love to sit in 40 minute lines to get 5 gal.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:27:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:

Costs of fuel get passed on to the consumer. Businesses that can't compete lose out. Always stay competitive.



True, 'tis why Walmart's doing so good. If every company's passing on costs to the consumer, another company will step in and eat some cost to gain market share, it's a good investment. Lose a couple pennies on the dollar to gain a customer, ride the oil storm out, when it's all said and done if you have a larger mkt share, you can cut costs by economies of scale in other areas and still come out ahead.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:29:14 PM EDT
Not being a smartass, but there are endless alternatives to your current situation that would involve less fuel consumption. I'm assuming that unless you are self-employed or a commercial trucker that your job compensates you for your on-the-job expenses? I get $.38 a mile over 10 miles.

I drive a lot less agressively nowadays. Cut my fuel consumption by 30%. Adds a whopping 2 minutes to my 45 minute commute because of all the traffic lights.

If you think collusion is likely you should also look at the statutory burdens placed on the fuel companies. Not just the drillers but the shippers, refiners, distributors and retailers. At each step they pay corporate taxes upwards of 20%--that's 100%+ federal taxes on profits BEFORE fuel taxes from the feds and state. Don't forget the government is also getting fat off of the high oil prices. I'd rather take the money from the greedy politicians before some honest citizens.



Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:33:16 PM EDT
Fullclip
I didn't say you were a commie, just anyone who thinks there should be a windfall tax. Look everyone, here is the deal. We are not the problem. Yes we burn a shitload of gas in our SUV's but the real demand growth is coming from India and China. Think about it, right now there are only thirty million cars in China. Yes, people in the U.S. will change their behavior because of high fuel costs that will reduce demand, but the third world will suck it all up. You can mitigate the problem by buying oils stocks.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:35:06 PM EDT
If the government would stay the hell out of it, oil companies would have access to more oil and have more refineries. Gas would probably be cheaper.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:37:35 PM EDT
they should all be shot for war profiteering.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:40:39 PM EDT
Since the American people shouldn't have to suffer any discomfort and are entitled to cheap energy, the government should control all prices and profits.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:44:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scoutabout:
Fullclip
I didn't say you were a commie, just anyone who thinks there should be a windfall tax. Look everyone, here is the deal. We are not the problem. Yes we burn a shitload of gas in our SUV's but the real demand growth is coming from India and China. Think about it, right now there are only thirty million cars in China. Yes, people in the U.S. will change their behavior because of high fuel costs that will reduce demand, but the third world will suck it all up. You can mitigate the problem by buying oils stocks.



Cool.. .. fullclip
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
Since the American people shouldn't have to suffer any discomfort and are entitled to cheap energy, the government should control all prices and profits.



Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:54:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:58:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:

And for those that don't believe the "suppliers" in this equation don't know that, remember that oil companies are not just posting record revenues, they are posting record margins. They are making more profit on their product. Why? They are applying a higher pure mark-up than they used too. Why? Well, because the market will withstand it.




Heretic

Just wait for the .gov and .state.gov to figure what the consumer will bear and jack more tax onto each gallon - just like they did the last time prices took a sharp rise and then finally came down for awhile.
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