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Posted: 4/30/2011 5:31:41 PM EDT
Leaked 2005 government cable from the US embassy in Ottawa focuses on Canadian/US integration, but obliquely mentions Mexico several times.  Discusses how a unified currency is not yet viable, the benefits of effectively eliminating the shared national borders, and the return on investment of fully integrating "standards and regulations", a rather broad category perhaps summed up as "all federal law".  Basically it's a primer on how to sell Canadians on the North American Union, and the primary tactic is, specifically, incrementalism.

Interestingly, the most important "positive effects" of the Canadian/US border are "law enforcement and data gathering", i.e., eliminating every reason to have a border while retaining the legal fiction of a border would be a convenient method of searching traveling citizens of an integrated union who might otherwise have pesky privacy rights.

"our governments may always want to keep some kind of land border in place" obviously implies that they also may not, or even that elimination of the border is the currently favored outcome.

Wikileaks
An incremental and pragmatic package of tasks
for a new North American Initiative (NAI) will likely gain
the most support among Canadian policymakers.  Our research
leads us to conclude that such a package should tackle both
"security" and "prosperity" goals.  This fits the
recommendations of Canadian economists who have assessed the
options for continental integration.  While in principle
many of them support more ambitious integration goals, like
a customs union/single market and/or single currency, most
believe the incremental approach is most appropriate at this
time, and all agree that it helps pave the way to these
goals if and when North Americans choose to pursue them.[snip]

PROCESS:  At this time, an "incremental" approach to
integration is probably better than a "big deal"
approach.  However, governments should focus on
choosing their objectives, and not on choosing a
process.

BORDER VS. PERIMETER:  Even with zero tariffs, our land
borders have strong commercial effects.  Some of these
effects are positive (such as law enforcement and data
gathering), so our governments may always want to keep
some kind of land border in place.[snip]

There is little basis on which to estimate the
size of the "upside" gains from an integration
initiative concentrating on non-tariff barriers of the
kind contained in NAI.  For this reason, we cannot make
claims about how large the benefits might be on a
national or continental scale.  When advocating NAI, it
would be better to highlight specific gains to
individual firms, industries or travelers, and
especially consumers

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:33:04 PM EDT
IN!
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:36:18 PM EDT
Yep, they'll do it incrementally so that we won't even know it's happening.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:36:33 PM EDT
Fuck, let's just do it.



This country has it's own domestic shitholes. Besides, taking in Mexico would get some our exported industries back and bring in more oil from Mexico and Canada. Tacking on Canada could help negate the Mexico. Continue on down to the Panama Canal? Why not, smaller border to protect and get to watch an important part of the world even closer.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:36:39 PM EDT
You'd have to work in the State Department to understand how something like this comes about.  Let's just say lots of people have lots of time on their hands and they love to extrapolate their ideas.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:38:37 PM EDT
Funny that I find this thread after I replied to the "Where would you go?" thread
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:40:17 PM EDT
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 5:41:08 PM EDT
Interesting.  I'm in...
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:00:21 PM EDT
Quoted:
Yep, they'll do it incrementally so that we won't even know it's happening.


The chains of tyranny are too light to be felt until they are to heavy to be broken.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:03:09 PM EDT
Maybe those tinfoilers aren't so tin foiley after all.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:08:13 PM EDT

In & out...




Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:08:41 PM EDT



Quoted:




In & out...











Just the tip?



 
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:11:44 PM EDT
Sadly, if this was a policy that the government was investigating under a Republican President in 2005, that means there's absolutely zero fucking chance of hearing talk of serious border security from any of the major Republican contenders in the near future.  
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:13:57 PM EDT


New World Order has to start somewhere.



Oh that's right, the Europeans already have a head start.



Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:15:04 PM EDT
Oh this should be interesting to watch.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:15:53 PM EDT
The best part is we get a new constitution!



Trust me, it will be more better than the last one.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:31:25 PM EDT
Buy more ammo - with Ameros !!!!!!!  

-JC
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:40:11 PM EDT
Shits always funny until the tinfoilers are right.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:41:03 PM EDT
Quoted:
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.


What are you talking about?? Canada is nothing like us culturally, they are very different from us. Have you ever been to Quebec?
How much time have you spent in Canada? They are much more like the Europeans than like us in how they think.
I don't know about today, but it wasn't very long ago when you drove through a French speaking part of Nova Scotia all the English would be
spray painted over on road signs and a HUGE Tricolor would be flying beneath a tiny Mapleleaf in the center of town......

And the French Canadians were the best part of Canada.......the English speakers tended to be rabidly Leftist and Liberal........
and extremely anti-gun........

Canada? No thanks.........
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:42:35 PM EDT
Over my dead body.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:42:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
Shits always funny until the tinfoilers are right.


Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:43:19 PM EDT
The Mexicans & Canuckistanis aren't any more eager to impliment this plan than we are.

It ain't going to happen.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:44:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
Over my dead body.



Quite possibly.

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:47:18 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.


What are you talking about?? Canada is nothing like us culturally, they are very different from us. Have you ever been to Quebec?
How much time have you spent in Canada? They are much more like the Europeans than like us in how they think.
I don't know about today, but it wasn't very long ago when you drove through a French speaking part of Nova Scotia all the English would be
spray painted over on road signs and a HUGE Tricolor would be flying beneath a tiny Mapleleaf in the center of town......

And the French Canadians were the best part of Canada.......the English speakers tended to be rabidly Leftist and Liberal........
and extremely anti-gun........

Canada? No thanks.........


I've been to Vancouver, it was pretty much America.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:54:48 PM EDT
Not everything in the suggestion box should be taken seriously. Guess I'm in too.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 6:58:04 PM EDT
This was drafted during Ambassador Paul Cellucci's time (under President Bush). He is currently listed by wikipedia as being in the employ of the Boston office of the law firm of McCarter & English, LLP, where he holds the title of Special Counsel.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:03:33 PM EDT
Quoted:
Fuck, let's just do it.

This country has it's own domestic shitholes. Besides, taking in Mexico would get some our exported industries back and bring in more oil from Mexico and Canada. Tacking on Canada could help negate the Mexico. Continue on down to the Panama Canal? Why not, smaller border to protect and get to watch an important part of the world even closer.


Well maybe we could send in the Natl Guard and erradicate the cartels.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:04:25 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.


What are you talking about?? Canada is nothing like us culturally, they are very different from us. Have you ever been to Quebec?
How much time have you spent in Canada? They are much more like the Europeans than like us in how they think.
I don't know about today, but it wasn't very long ago when you drove through a French speaking part of Nova Scotia all the English would be
spray painted over on road signs and a HUGE Tricolor would be flying beneath a tiny Mapleleaf in the center of town......

And the French Canadians were the best part of Canada.......the English speakers tended to be rabidly Leftist and Liberal........
and extremely anti-gun........


Canada? No thanks.........


While it's true that Canadians are no more American than the Europeans, French Canadians are most certainly NOT the best part of Canada.  Federal power is heavily concentrated in the hands of French Canadians and they've done a good job to socialize the country at every opportunity they've had.

In terms of gun rights, 'english' western Canadians are much more pro-gun than French Canadians.  Which isn't saying much.

I'm not sure how the French Canadians would respond to a 'North American Union'.  They are statists so they might like the idea.  But they are also fervently 'nationalist' (their nation being Quebec) so they might not like the idea of giving up their borders.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:12:52 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.


What are you talking about?? Canada is nothing like us culturally, they are very different from us. Have you ever been to Quebec?
How much time have you spent in Canada? They are much more like the Europeans than like us in how they think.
I don't know about today, but it wasn't very long ago when you drove through a French speaking part of Nova Scotia all the English would be
spray painted over on road signs and a HUGE Tricolor would be flying beneath a tiny Mapleleaf in the center of town......

And the French Canadians were the best part of Canada.......the English speakers tended to be rabidly Leftist and Liberal........
and extremely anti-gun........

Canada? No thanks.........


I've been to Ontario & Alberta a few times & go to Manitoba & Saskatchewan quite a bit, all because of my job.

The places I've been they are similar to us, but there are differences.

The thing I've noticed the most about Canadians is that they tend to be more apt to just follow whatever their .gov tells them. And they are more concerned about following the rules than we are & also seem to lack a certain ammount of the self determination that we are known for. Oh yeah & they're some of the shittiest drivers out there, yet at the same time seem to be absolutely obsessed with "safety".

And I agree that they think more like Europeans than we do. Which is probably a result of still being in the British Commonwealth.

Granted, there are exceptions to this, just as there is with any generalization.

ETA: the western provinces seem to be more conservative overall & have plenty of gun loving folks around.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:15:26 PM EDT
where is all the wiki leaks haters?  how convinient!
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 7:21:55 PM EDT



Quoted:


where is all the wiki leaks haters?  how convinient!




I don't know but the Spell Nazis are inbound!!



 
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:18:20 PM EDT
Quoted:
where is all the wiki leaks haters?  how convinient!


Forget Wiki-leaks; this outfit had their own website outlining exactly what they intended to do.  A sharp lawyer managed to use the globalist's own environmental laws against them to put the brakes on what  _A certain poster called a "highway improvement project",

Link Posted: 4/30/2011 8:40:13 PM EDT
Quoted:
Sadly, if this was a policy that the government was investigating under a Republican President in 2005, that means there's absolutely zero fucking chance of hearing talk of serious border security from any of the major Republican contenders in the near future.  


QFT...part of the plan. It helps further this agenda by allowing a porous southern border.
Link Posted: 5/1/2011 6:44:34 PM EDT
What's funny is when the neocons deny this.

Link Posted: 5/1/2011 7:05:43 PM EDT
it will happen but not any time soon and I suspect I will be dead when it does happen
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:06:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:11:22 PM EDT
It could never happen.....
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:11:46 PM EDT
links in the chain...
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:12:03 PM EDT
Quoted:
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.


Nope... Canada has about the population of Mexico City. There's no balance to be had that way - incorporating Mexico would drastically change the political culture of the USA.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:16:11 PM EDT



Quoted:


Fuck, let's just do it.



This country has it's own domestic shitholes. Besides, taking in Mexico would get some our exported industries back and bring in more oil from Mexico and Canada. Tacking on Canada could help negate the Mexico. Continue on down to the Panama Canal? Why not, smaller border to protect and get to watch an important part of the world even closer.


no.



You argnoring the fact that both cnada and mexico/central America are either poor, socialist, or both.   They will vote away what is left of american freedom and prosperity in a decade.



 
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:18:37 PM EDT
Does this mean I can finally own a Canadian?
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:23:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:23:40 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I really don't have a problem with it, as long as we keep our Constitution. Canada, in particular, is very similar economically and culturally. Mexico, though, is not, and is a shithole. But parts of our country are already pretty much Mexico, anyway.


What are you talking about?? Canada is nothing like us culturally, they are very different from us. Have you ever been to Quebec?
How much time have you spent in Canada? They are much more like the Europeans than like us in how they think.
I don't know about today, but it wasn't very long ago when you drove through a French speaking part of Nova Scotia all the English would be
spray painted over on road signs and a HUGE Tricolor would be flying beneath a tiny Mapleleaf in the center of town......

And the French Canadians were the best part of Canada.......the English speakers tended to be rabidly Leftist and Liberal........
and extremely anti-gun........

Canada? No thanks.........


You are very much incorrect.  Most of Canada is like the Midwest or Southern United States.  Farmers, rural, pickup trucks.  

French Canadians are a different breed, but even in Montreal you have WASPs that are very pro-America.

EDIT:  For example, Holmes on Homes and Disaster DIY are filmed in Canada.  You'd have a hard time finding differences in the two countries from watching those shows.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:28:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:33:42 PM EDT
Quoted:
Fuck, let's just do it.

This country has it's own domestic shitholes. Besides, taking in Mexico would get some our exported industries back and bring in more oil from Mexico and Canada. Tacking on Canada could help negate the Mexico. Continue on down to the Panama Canal? Why not, smaller border to protect and get to watch an important part of the world even closer.


Wait.  Is this the same website where most people were bitching about the royal wedding.  Get ready to kneel to your queen.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:37:38 PM EDT
Umm No.
we have enough of a Mexican cartel problem as it is...Do you want that multiplied by infinity and have towns in the US like Tijuana and Jaurez? as well as the 3rd world elements they can introduce (like we dont have enough of that either)
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:45:55 PM EDT
Why would the Canadians want this? The loon is stronger than the dollar. They have very strong exports into the U.S. They have a stronger banking system. It is all fail for them.

There is NO Canada like French Canada.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:48:03 PM EDT
Quoted:
Over my dead body.


Agreed.
Link Posted: 5/2/2011 4:49:37 PM EDT
Quoted:
Maybe those tinfoilers aren't so tin foiley after all.

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