Why is it so hard for the midwestern states to pass concealed carry laws?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why is it so hard for the midwestern states to pass concealed carry laws?

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:24:08 AM EDT

Why is it so hard for the midwestern states to pass concealed carry laws? Why are Nebraska, Kansas and others so anti-CCW? It is because of religious views or what. Those states almost always vote Republican.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:26:39 AM EDT

[#1]

Midwest=Manufacturing=Union=Democratic presence...

Union Democrats are hard line party plank people, unlike what used to be known as the 'southern' democrat.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:27:23 AM EDT

[#2]

Because of our stupid Demoncratic govna. WI's CCW passed the senate 22-6 and the bastard still vetoed it.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:31:20 AM EDT

[#3]

Republicans in Ohio are mostly RINOs.

We recently got CCW, much to the chagrin of our RINO Gov. Bob Taft.

If it wasn't for the three C's, the state of Ohio would be pretty conservative.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:31:42 AM EDT

[#4]

Reguarding Nebraska. IMO

1. Ernie Chambers & the Unicameral

2. The majority of the population lives in 2 urban areas in NE. Handguns are "icky" in Lincoln and Omaha.

3. In the rural areas (where I live), it seems people are too busy making a living to become very proactive.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:39:04 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Republicans in Ohio are mostly RINOs.

We recently got CCW, much to the chagrin of our RINO Gov. Bob Taft.

If it wasn't for the three C's, the state of Ohio would be pretty conservative.

And it is a fucked up law that needs to be fixed ASAP.

NO OTHER state that allows CCW, either shall issue or may issue, requires you to disarm under penalty of felony when you get in your own fucking car.

Fuck Colonel Paul McClellan, fuck the Ohio State Highway Patrol, and fuck all the god damned politicians that listen to them.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:39:31 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Reguarding Nebraska. IMO

1. Ernie Chambers & the Unicameral

2. The majority of the population lives in 2 urban areas in NE. Handguns are "icky" in Lincoln and Omaha.

3. In the rural areas (where I live), it seems people are too busy making a living to become very proactive.

I agree.

I grew up in southwest Nebr. Farm country all around. Little crime, farmers still left their front doors unlocked 27/7. There was usually a loaded longarm around and with open carry legal there is no sense of urgency in needing to carry a pistol concealed.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:42:48 AM EDT

[#7]

When discussing this matter, people inevitably bring up Missouri’s 1999 ballot referendum on Right-To-Carry, which was narrowly defeated (with a dismal 30% voter turnout, I might add.) The fact is that the measure passed in almost every county in the state. The defeat came from the fact that two very large urban precincts in St. Louis and Kansas City were over 90% opposed. At the time, I thought this was vote fraud (and to be honest, I still think that was a factor). Ninety percent? You can’t get ninety percent agreement on anything.

A black businessman (who was one of the handful of St. Louis city residents who voted for the referendum) and I were discussing the recent passage of RTC. I brought up the referendum results, and said I could not understand why blacks had been so uniformly against the measure. The proposal was a "shall issue" one, where if you satisfied the requirements (training, fingerprints, no criminal record, no mental illness, etc.) you couldn’t be denied the permit just because the sheriff didn’t like the idea of people besides the police having guns. The businessman stared at me.

"I thought you were good at math," he said. I allowed as to how I felt that I was. "Then you must never have taken Statistics and Probability." I told him I had done this also, and that it had been one of the most rewarding math classes I had ever taken (and incidentally was taught by Amherst’s professor Denton, who is black.) "Then you must be cowed enough by political correctness to never think of applying statistics and probability to anything involving race." Finally I admitted that this last accusation might be true.

"Then I am going to ask you two true-or-false questions. One: Do blacks in the city of St. Louis have large extended families?" I answered in the affirmative. "Two: Is it true that in St. Louis, over 40% of the black males between the ages of 17 and 25 have criminal records?" I told him that was also true, unfortunately.

"So here is the important question: What are the chances of a black person of voting age in St. Louis having at least one relative with a criminal record? Assume we define ‘relative’ broadly, to include the young men who father the children of our female relatives, whether married to them or not." He sat there waiting for my answer.

"Are we talking fathers, stepfathers, uncles, brothers, stepbrothers, male cousins, sons, stepsons, nephews, mothers’ boyfriends, aunts' boyfriends, sisters’ boyfriends, daughters’ boyfriends, stepdaughters’ boyfriends, female cousins’ boyfriends, nieces’ boyfriends, as well as anyone actually married to a female relative?" I asked. He nodded. "Then I’d say there's nearly 100% probability that at least one relative would have a criminal record." He smiled at me like a teacher who has just gotten the right answer from one of his slower students.

"So," I said, "I'm to believe that the black sentiment in St. Louis was ‘I wish young Tyrone would stop robbing people, but I don’t want one of the people he robs to shoot him dead.’ Is that it?" I asked.

"You’ve got it exactly," he told me.

"But why? I mean, honestly, if some guy was married to my cousin and mugged people for a living, I’d figure he was making his own choices and could damn well take the chance of being blasted. I wouldn’t vote away my rights to help his sorry ass."

"What if it wasn’t just your one cousin’s husband, but 40% of all your male relatives between the ages of 18 and 25? What if that was, oh, I don’t know, a dozen people?" Suddenly I didn’t know what to say.

"You don’t feel that way," I said finally.

"I’m an Uncle Tom. I’ve recently come to realize that I now have very few black friends."

www.john-ross.net

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:48:41 AM EDT

[#8]

Wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait one damn min ute!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys in the mid west have states that don't have CCW???

WTF? Maybe you all should move to a FREE STATE that does have it.
Like maybe California

, which is at least "Shall issue"

Sgatr15

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:51:03 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
If it wasn't for the three C's, the state of Ohio would be pretty conservative.

You beat me to it. Rural Ohio is NOTHING like those 3 shitholes. Farmland folk are pretty cool.

Posted: 9/9/2004 7:59:29 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
When discussing this matter, people inevitably bring up Missouri’s 1999 ballot referendum on Right-To-Carry, which was narrowly defeated (with a dismal 30% voter turnout, I might add.) The fact is that the measure passed in almost every county in the state. The defeat came from the fact that two very large urban precincts in St. Louis and Kansas City were over 90% opposed. At the time, I thought this was vote fraud (and to be honest, I still think that was a factor). Ninety percent? You can’t get ninety percent agreement on anything.

A black businessman (who was one of the handful of St. Louis city residents who voted for the referendum) and I were discussing the recent passage of RTC. I brought up the referendum results, and said I could not understand why blacks had been so uniformly against the measure. The proposal was a "shall issue" one, where if you satisfied the requirements (training, fingerprints, no criminal record, no mental illness, etc.) you couldn’t be denied the permit just because the sheriff didn’t like the idea of people besides the police having guns. The businessman stared at me.

"I thought you were good at math," he said. I allowed as to how I felt that I was. "Then you must never have taken Statistics and Probability." I told him I had done this also, and that it had been one of the most rewarding math classes I had ever taken (and incidentally was taught by Amherst’s professor Denton, who is black.) "Then you must be cowed enough by political correctness to never think of applying statistics and probability to anything involving race." Finally I admitted that this last accusation might be true.

"Then I am going to ask you two true-or-false questions. One: Do blacks in the city of St. Louis have large extended families?" I answered in the affirmative. "Two: Is it true that in St. Louis, over 40% of the black males between the ages of 17 and 25 have criminal records?" I told him that was also true, unfortunately.

"So here is the important question: What are the chances of a black person of voting age in St. Louis having at least one relative with a criminal record? Assume we define ‘relative’ broadly, to include the young men who father the children of our female relatives, whether married to them or not." He sat there waiting for my answer.

"Are we talking fathers, stepfathers, uncles, brothers, stepbrothers, male cousins, sons, stepsons, nephews, mothers’ boyfriends, aunts' boyfriends, sisters’ boyfriends, daughters’ boyfriends, stepdaughters’ boyfriends, female cousins’ boyfriends, nieces’ boyfriends, as well as anyone actually married to a female relative?" I asked. He nodded. "Then I’d say there's nearly 100% probability that at least one relative would have a criminal record." He smiled at me like a teacher who has just gotten the right answer from one of his slower students.

"So," I said, "I'm to believe that the black sentiment in St. Louis was ‘I wish young Tyrone would stop robbing people, but I don’t want one of the people he robs to shoot him dead.’ Is that it?" I asked.

"You’ve got it exactly," he told me.

"But why? I mean, honestly, if some guy was married to my cousin and mugged people for a living, I’d figure he was making his own choices and could damn well take the chance of being blasted. I wouldn’t vote away my rights to help his sorry ass."

"What if it wasn’t just your one cousin’s husband, but 40% of all your male relatives between the ages of 18 and 25? What if that was, oh, I don’t know, a dozen people?" Suddenly I didn’t know what to say.

"You don’t feel that way," I said finally.

"I’m an Uncle Tom. I’ve recently come to realize that I now have very few black friends."

www.john-ross.net

WOW! Very insightful and very damning of that demographic group.

Posted: 9/9/2004 8:14:35 AM EDT

[#11]

In Nebraska we don't need it, we can carry open, in plain sight on our person and in our vehicles, and if you are in a situation where a prudent person would go armed in a concealable mannor it's legal then also to conceal.

I would support a South Dakota type permit system, but the ones that have come before the NE lawmakers had so much shit attatched to it, that the gunowners don't even support it.

Posted: 9/9/2004 8:38:16 AM EDT

[#12]

I know a few people from Neb and they don't see a need for a CCW or even want one. They are all ranchers out in the sandhills & carry a rifle or shotgun in their trucks.

I almost went to jail in ScottsBLuff for open cary. Shot a SASS match there & went in to Wendys and was wearing 2 loaded Ruger Vaqueros (45 colt) while inside Wendys. They called the cops & I think every cop within 100 miles showed up

From what I was told, open cary is illegal in Neb unless you're way out in the boonies.

Thoes that live on ranches just do not give a shit as long as they can do what they want. One rancher I know brags about not needing a CCW and thinks they are stupid. However, he's never in his life been in a town with more than 3,000 people & he's almost 50yoa.

Posted: 9/9/2004 8:56:30 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
If it wasn't for the three C's, the state of Ohio would be pretty conservative.

Columbus, Cincinatti and Cleveland?

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:54:40 AM EDT

[#14]

In North Dakota we don't need it, but we have it anyway.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:57:02 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If it wasn't for the three C's, the state of Ohio would be pretty conservative.

Columbus, Cincinatti and Cleveland?

Yep. The 3 armpits of the state.

Posted: 9/9/2004 10:58:00 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Reguarding Nebraska. IMO

1. Ernie Chambers & the Unicameral

2. The majority of the population lives in 2 urban areas in NE. Handguns are "icky" in Lincoln and Omaha.

3. In the rural areas (where I live), it seems people are too busy making a living to become very proactive.

That's funny. The last time I drove through Lincoln looking for an apartment I once inhabited for a short time, a guy flashed one at me. No joke. It looks like that apartment is in the middle of gangland now. The place has changed...

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:07:43 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Midwest=Manufacturing=Union=Democratic presence...

Union Democrats are hard line party plank people, unlike what used to be known as the 'southern' democrat.

+1. labor unions. i believe that's also why i can't get a NFA sign off where i live.

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:22:43 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Midwest=Manufacturing=Union=Democratic presence...

Union Democrats are hard line party plank people, unlike what used to be known as the 'southern' democrat.

Well, that says it all.
Union says so, so I do so.

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:37:36 AM EDT

[#19]

Minnesota got it last year, now we temporarily don't until we temporarily have it again.

It all comes from having Minneapolis in our state

GM

Posted: 9/9/2004 11:51:48 AM EDT

[#20]

I dunno about elsewhere but the Capital City of Chicago keeps us from passing such foolishness in Illinois. Yes, I know that the G.A. sits in Springfield but just ask Blagojevich where he gets all his work done.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why is it so hard for the midwestern states to pass concealed carry laws?

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