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Archived [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why don't they throw grenades like a baseball? (Page 1 of 3)
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Posted: 5/5/2005 2:37:51 AM EDT
?

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:40:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Becuase you dont

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:41:34 AM EDT
[#2]
too heavy? damage your shoulder.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:41:54 AM EDT
[#3]
You haven't thrown a grenade have you?
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:42:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
You haven't thrown a grenade have you?

I have screwed around with inerts, they are a bit heavy but I managed to chuck one. I just didn't know if it was for another reason.


ETA: I am not saying I threw it like a fastball but over the head. I just see the videos and they do some granny shot kind of thing.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:44:49 AM EDT
[#5]
I throw 'em like a softball.

!

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:46:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I throw 'em like a softball.

!


I have never been able to throw a softball

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:52:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
You haven't thrown a grenade have you?


I have.....I can still put much more air with "baseball" arm than the military lob.

IIRC, however, another benefit of the army heave-ho is that you can throw it even from a prone position, or from cover without exposing any more body than necessary. A baseball throw requires the whole body to sling it.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:54:22 AM EDT
[#8]
whenever I played around with inerts, I always found it real hard to sink nades into tight spots with a baseball pitch, but the sideamr thing always semmed to work real well if you got your angles down and a lil bit of practice.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:55:17 AM EDT
[#9]
It's entirely due to the weight of the grenade.  The "lobbing" technique is superiorly accurate also.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 2:55:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You haven't thrown a grenade have you?

I have screwed around with inerts, they are a bit heavy but I managed to chuck one. I just didn't know if it was for another reason.


ETA: I am not saying I threw it like a fastball but over the head. I just see the videos and they do some granny shot kind of thing.


Real ones are a bit heavier.  And try throwing baseball style from behind cover, on your stomach, or from a ditch.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:03:11 AM EDT
[#11]
I believe the training method makes it less likely to be dropped.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:18:29 AM EDT
[#12]
They're just too damn heavy to be chuckin' em like that.
I mean I have done it, so I know it's possible but after 2 or 3 your arm starts to hurt. Kind of like throwing fastballs for half an hour.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:28:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Not to mention not everyone can even throw a baseball.  A lot of these guys would throw the grenade into the dirt right in front of them.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:30:14 AM EDT
[#14]
i still think we oughta develop a good stick grenade...also, throwing a hand grenade like a baseball? i'm not sure i wanna try holding the spoon down with two fingers...

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:30:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Not to mention not everyone can even throw a baseball.  A lot of these guys would throw the grenade into the dirt right in front of them.

Hahaha, thats horrible, reminds me of the dumb as kid in asia playing with the grenade and dropping it than the poor little asian guy kicking it in the water and running back with the kid.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:40:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Because hopefully you're not standing-up and in direct line of sight to your target.  When you throw it the right way, you can throw it over cover, obstacles, sandbags, or whatever.z

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:56:57 AM EDT
[#17]
My first impression throwing a live grenade, "DAMN, this isn't at ALL like the movies!"

Tj
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:04:00 AM EDT
[#18]
For starters, I can't hit sh*t when throwing a baseball. Thus having me throw a grenade like one would give me a level of accuracy that is plus or minus the effective range of the grenade.

An underhanded throw, on the other hand, I can use accurately. Plus it also allows for a more sure grip on the grenade than a sidearm throw would, leaving less room for error. The fatal kind that blows your you-know-what off.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:09:38 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
My first impression throwing a live grenade, "DAMN, this isn't at ALL like the movies!"

Tj


+1

Many have mentioned the weight.  To simulate the weight of a grenade, get a base ball and a drill.  Make tiny holes all over the ball.  Soak the ball in water for a few days.  Remove and try to throw across your yard.  All of a sudden you will realize why lobbing is recommended.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:11:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
i still think we oughta develop a good stick grenade


I asked my dad what he thought of those German potato masher grenades. He said while they were effective and easy to throw, he didn't like to carry them because the stick made them unwieldy.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:13:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Any baseball size object composed of over 50% steel is going to weigh alot - enough for the bell curve to enter the picture. The army had to find a single method, one size fits all, to cover the bases of distance, accuracy and safty to the thrower.

Like everyone says, you fight as you train. In Falluja the Marines where tossing grenades into windows or around doors not chucking them as though snow balls.

Speaking of grenades, and maybe the wrong thread, but didn't they develop the frisbee originally as a replacement for the pineapple grenade? A disk made of C-4?

If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:18:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Any baseball size object composed of over 50% steel is going to weigh alot - enough for the bell curve to enter the picture. The army had to find a single method, one size fits all, to cover the bases of distance, accuracy and safty to the thrower.

Like everyone says, you fight as you train. In Falluja the Marines where tossing grenades into windows or around doors not chucking them as though snow balls.

Speaking of grenades, and maybe the wrong thread, but didn't they develop the frisbee originally as a replacement for the pineapple grenade? A disk made of C-4?

If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.

Who can throw a disk a few hundred yards?

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:21:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Any baseball size object composed of over 50% steel is going to weigh alot - enough for the bell curve to enter the picture. The army had to find a single method, one size fits all, to cover the bases of distance, accuracy and safty to the thrower.

Like everyone says, you fight as you train. In Falluja the Marines where tossing grenades into windows or around doors not chucking them as though snow balls.

Speaking of grenades, and maybe the wrong thread, but didn't they develop the frisbee originally as a replacement for the pineapple grenade? A disk made of C-4?

If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.


My luck and it would curve like my frisbees do and land next to a buddy.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:22:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Any baseball size object composed of over 50% steel is going to weigh alot - enough for the bell curve to enter the picture. The army had to find a single method, one size fits all, to cover the bases of distance, accuracy and safty to the thrower.

Like everyone says, you fight as you train. In Falluja the Marines where tossing grenades into windows or around doors not chucking them as though snow balls.

Speaking of grenades, and maybe the wrong thread, but didn't they develop the frisbee originally as a replacement for the pineapple grenade? A disk made of C-4?

If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.


Couple hundred yards hell no. I can throw the shit out of disc and at best right now with a 175gram disk I can get between 220-260 feet(though I know guys that can throw them in the 400-500 foot range). Put more weight to it and it's going to go even less distance. It also requires you to be standing up and throwing sidearm or backhand. And the disc would not be all htat accurate, you'd have a certain amopunt o high and low speed turn in the disc, if you have to be accurate with it, like toss it through a window it's going to be hard to do hard.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:23:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any baseball size object composed of over 50% steel is going to weigh alot - enough for the bell curve to enter the picture. The army had to find a single method, one size fits all, to cover the bases of distance, accuracy and safty to the thrower.

Like everyone says, you fight as you train. In Falluja the Marines where tossing grenades into windows or around doors not chucking them as though snow balls.

Speaking of grenades, and maybe the wrong thread, but didn't they develop the frisbee originally as a replacement for the pineapple grenade? A disk made of C-4?

If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.


My luck and it would curve like my frisbees do and land next to a buddy.


+1000, I can't throw a frisbee for shit.  Oh wait....they have those...they are called LAND MINES!!!
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:26:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
My first impression throwing a live grenade, "DAMN, this isn't at ALL like the movies!"

Tj


+1!
being a 17year old kid holding a grenade for the first time and being told what to do in case I dropped it kinda scared me.

The instructor told me to try to toss it through the "window" frame about 20 meters away. I heaved that thing as far away as I could and the instructor told me that I was the farthest toss of the day.

The grenade qualification course was easy as I tossed each "egg" into the kill zone and got the expert grenade badge.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:29:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Well, if we're heading that way how about exploding lawn darts? I know they're pretty dangerous as they are but imagine if they exploded too?
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:37:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Well, if we're heading that way how about exploding lawn darts? I know they're pretty dangerous as they are but imagine if they exploded too?


Why Mr. Captainpooby, that has to be the best idea of the day.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:39:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Well, if we're heading that way how about exploding lawn darts? I know they're pretty dangerous as they are but imagine if they exploded too?


Rifle grenades are kinda dart shaped, does that count?  

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:42:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, if we're heading that way how about exploding lawn darts? I know they're pretty dangerous as they are but imagine if they exploded too?


Why Mr. Captainpooby, that has to be the best idea of the day.



Think about. Even if it didnt go off they'd probably put someones eye out.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 5:47:01 AM EDT
[#31]
I was told in boot camp the reason behind the bent elbow throw is to keep from inadvertantly hitting "some object" behind you like could happen with a"natural" throw . If you "hit some object "you may drop it ...behind you .
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:22:11 AM EDT
[#32]
They had to shelve the frisbees made of C4 due to complaints from the dog handlers....

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:28:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
You haven't thrown a grenade have you?


+11ty billion
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:30:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I believe the training method makes it less likely to be dropped.


or fall short in front of you.  If you've ever screwed around with them, then you know its 'no joke'.
I want those F'rs as far away from me as possible
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:36:14 AM EDT
[#35]
I think it has a lot to do with how the "spoon" needs to be more securly held down than can be acheaved with a baseball grip.  A base ball grip only utilizes 3 fingers, the "lob" grip used for throwing a grenade utilizes the whole hand.  I say fuck it just give me an m203
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:40:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Once the spoon pops, what sort of delay do you have?  I mean, if you dropped it would you have time to pick it up and re-throw?

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:41:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Why don't they throw grenades like a baseball?


Can you imagine the crap a guy would get if he threw it like a girl?  
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:44:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I was told in boot camp the reason behind the bent elbow throw is to keep from inadvertantly hitting "some object" behind you like could happen with a"natural" throw . If you "hit some object "you may drop it ...behind you .


There were quite a few "whoops!" accidents like this in WWI trench warfare using the early impact detonated grenades.  Swing back to throw, hit the impact fuse against the rear trench wall & .  

I recall reading of at least one WWII posthumous MOH awarded to a soldier who dove on his own fumbled grenade rather than harm his squadmates (bounced back into the room off a window frame IIRC)

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:47:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Chucking them in an arc means they are more likely to land/remain near the target.... pitching them baseball style horizontally means they are more likely to go skipping past.

The idea isn't to try and conk the bad guy out by nailing him in the noggin with it, but land it close for the kaboom to follow.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:48:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Chucking them in an arc means they are more likely to land/remain near the target.... pitching them baseball style horizontally means they are more likely to go skipping past.

The idea isn't to try and conk the bad guy out by nailing him in the noggin with it, but land it close for the kaboom to follow.



Also, tossing in a arc cooks off some of the fuse time making it less likely that you foe will pick it up and toss back at you.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:56:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Any baseball size object composed of over 50% steel is going to weigh alot - enough for the bell curve to enter the picture. The army had to find a single method, one size fits all, to cover the bases of distance, accuracy and safty to the thrower.

Like everyone says, you fight as you train. In Falluja the Marines where tossing grenades into windows or around doors not chucking them as though snow balls.

Speaking of grenades, and maybe the wrong thread, but didn't they develop the frisbee originally as a replacement for the pineapple grenade? A disk made of C-4?

If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.


yeah, but if there are any k9s around you better hope they didn't fetch frisbees when they were pups.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 6:57:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I think it has a lot to do with how the "spoon" needs to be more securly held down than can be acheaved with a baseball grip.  A base ball grip only utilizes 3 fingers, the "lob" grip used for throwing a grenade utilizes the whole hand.  I say fuck it just give me an m203


But a 40mm M203/M79 round can't be bounced down a stairwell or around corners.

{quote]Quoted:
Once the spoon pops, what sort of delay do you have? I mean, if you dropped it would you have time to pick it up and re-throw?

Depends on the grenade.  Most US grenades have a ~3-5 second fuse IIRC.
The east-bloc F1 "Russian pineapple" grenades can vary.  Fuses available from 0-13 seconds.  Not sure why you'd need a 13 sec fuse.  The 0 second delay fuse was for use in booby traps (tripwire pulls pin=instant kaboom!).  
SOF had an article where the writer was in El Salvador <??> talking to the local goodguys.  The .gov troops sometimes used captured commie weapons to augment their equipment.   When the SOF writer examined a borrowed F1 he discovered that the El Salvador soldier had been carrying one that some dumbassed commie had installed a 0 sec fuse  

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:00:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
If they made a C-4 Aerobie and covered it with small metal flachettes I wonder if you could reach a couple hundred yards with it.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:02:25 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it has a lot to do with how the "spoon" needs to be more securly held down than can be acheaved with a baseball grip.  A base ball grip only utilizes 3 fingers, the "lob" grip used for throwing a grenade utilizes the whole hand.  I say fuck it just give me an m203


But a 40mm M203/M79 round can't be bounced down a stairwell or around corners.

{quote]Quoted:
Once the spoon pops, what sort of delay do you have? I mean, if you dropped it would you have time to pick it up and re-throw?

Depends on the grenade.  Most US grenades have a ~3-5 second fuse IIRC.
The east-bloc F1 "Russian pineapple" grenades can vary.  Fuses available from 0-13 seconds.  Not sure why you'd need a 13 sec fuse.  The 0 second delay fuse was for use in booby traps (tripwire pulls pin=instant kaboom!).  
SOF had an article where the writer was in El Salvador <??> talking to the local goodguys.  The .gov troops sometimes used captured commie weapons to augment their equipment.   When the SOF writer examined a borrowed F1 he discovered that the El Salvador soldier had been carrying one that some dumbassed commie had installed a 0 sec fuse  
IIRC, thats an urban legend, the 0-13 marking was the factory it was produced in.

Kharn

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:02:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
IIRC, however, another benefit of the army heave-ho is that you can throw it even from a prone position, or from cover without exposing any more body than necessary. A baseball throw requires the whole body to sling it.


And that' really all the reason I'd need.  


Baseball might be more fun if they had to throw a baseball like a grenade.  

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:40:01 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Once the spoon pops, what sort of delay do you have?  I mean, if you dropped it would you have time to pick it up and re-throw?


Once the spoon pops, Mr. Grenade is not your friend.

IIRC, it's 3-5 seconds.

Don't be there when it goes off.

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:45:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Why would you throw them?  Don't you just leave them outside the British consulate?

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:59:39 AM EDT
[#48]
I've never had one that didn't go off in 3 seconds (more like 2.91347)
Never comfortable around those forkers (M-67's at least)
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 8:03:07 AM EDT
[#49]
Kids got a hell of an arm.
Name the movie

Link Posted: 5/5/2005 8:06:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Why would you throw them?  Don't you just leave them outside the British consulate?



There will be a knock on your door in 3 minutes.  Don't answer and hide your weapons.
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