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Posted: 4/20/2017 9:44:19 PM EDT
Why does this .50 gunner need to keep pulling the charging handle?  

edit: Looks like his shit is jamming?  I always thought the M2 was pretty reliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiA_W9-pW9Y&t

50 Cal Gunner Engages Taliban Positions During Ambush
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:45:30 PM EDT
50BMG made by Kimber??
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:46:00 PM EDT
jam
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:46:21 PM EDT
Likely poor maintenance.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:46:40 PM EDT
I'm not ex/current military, but I would assume because it's not timed correctly.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:47:30 PM EDT
Lube that bitch
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:47:42 PM EDT
Maintenance is lacking, and it sounds like the timing is off based on the sluggish operation. No excuse to not have proper H&T. It literally takes just a couple minutes for a properly trained gunner.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:47:45 PM EDT
Thats what shitty headspace and timing will do. There are go/no go gauges for a reason.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:47:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not ex/current military, but I would assume because it's not timed correctly.
View Quote
This....the timing is way off....
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:48:00 PM EDT
No idea the cause, but around the one minute mark you hear "IS IT JAMMING"..."YES"
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:48:27 PM EDT
poor maintenance/ set up
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:49:46 PM EDT
Back when timing was an operator and not armorer task, it was pretty common.

Had a squad leader tell me not to waste my time with the ma deuce, but little did he know, I actually knew how to properly time it.

200 round burst happened immediately following his comment.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:51:07 PM EDT
At :52 -

Is it jamming?

What?

Is it jamming?

Yes!

It's probably jamming.  No gun is reliable if it isn't properly maintained.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:51:58 PM EDT
Timing
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:00:14 PM EDT
just Monday morning quarterbacking as a former machinegunner...

improperly set timing (you should check with a headspace and timing gauge on the 50 every time you set it up)

not enough/no lubricant

poor maintenance

or...just worn to shit.

pick your evil.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:02:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
just Monday morning quarterbacking as a former machinegunner...

improperly set timing (you should check with a headspace and timing gauge on the 50 every time you set it up)

not enough/no lubricant

poor maintenance

or...just worn to shit.

pick your evil.
View Quote
You forgot my favorite:  Belt full of sand and gravel and shit!
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:04:50 PM EDT
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Quoted:
You forgot my favorite:  Belt full of sand and gravel and shit!
View Quote
Hah!  How could I forget!  
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:06:56 PM EDT
Stoppages.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:08:39 PM EDT
... just put some CLP on it
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:10:55 PM EDT
there's a slim possibility it's shit ammo also.

Never really saw that with the M2, but for what ever reason when I was in the Corps, certain batches of 40mm HEDP for the MK19 were garbage and caused lots of jamming.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:12:32 PM EDT
A lot of guys will run their gun without enough lube because they are afraid of grit advereing to the lube. A lot of worn out beat to shit .50s out there. At one point circa 2006 units were leaving behind some or all of their M2HBs for the unit replacing them. Guess which ones they left?

I had a gun blow up in my face on a range at FOB Falcon that had wood space grips and a wood charging handle. It was either that shitty IWI ammo there was problems with or the latch was worn on the 80+ year old gun.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:13:48 PM EDT
Piss Poor Leadership
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:14:20 PM EDT
Bad timing and not taking care of it the way it needs to be taken care of, like a good woman, don't take care of them, they will let ya down and leave your ass in the dirt.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:14:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
there's a slim possibility it's shit ammo also.

Never really saw that with the M2, but for what ever reason when I was in the Corps, certain batches of 40mm HEDP for the MK19 were garbage and caused lots of jamming.
View Quote
Not a slim possibility at all. Whole lots of Tawainese and Israeli .50 cal were suspended for QA issues like hard primers and hot loads.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:15:54 PM EDT
I remember getting training on headspacing and timing the .50 in AIT in the 70's

It's a simple machine, but it does need a little TLC to run right.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:16:09 PM EDT
Looks like it could use some cleaning and some CLP.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:17:27 PM EDT
Sluggish firing.

Possibly timing set too late, but more likely improper lube, or worn out/oil contaminated buffer disks.  Adding a little clp to the feed lever track isn't going to cut it.  You have to get the clp down between the bolt and barrel extension.

Or it was PMJ ammo.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:20:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A lot of guys will run their gun without enough lube because they are afraid of grit advereing to the lube. A lot of worn out beat to shit .50s out there. At one point circa 2006 units were leaving behind some or all of their M2HBs for the unit replacing them. Guess which ones they left?

I had a gun blow up in my face on a range at FOB Falcon that had wood space grips and a wood charging handle. It was either that shitty IWI ammo there was problems with or the latch was worn on the 80+ year old gun.
View Quote
The IWI (PMJ) ammo will only cause jams, not a blow up.  SBS had a risk of that though.  

Some guns blew from IWI/PMJ though because you could cheat and set the timing too early to try to get that shit to run better, but  sometimes people went to far and their luck ran out.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:21:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Not a slim possibility at all. Whole lots of Tawainese and Israeli .50 cal were suspended for QA issues like hard primers and hot loads.
View Quote
The Taiwanese ran as good or better than the LC.

Israeli and Spanish were the crap.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:22:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
there's a slim possibility it's shit ammo also.

Never really saw that with the M2, but for what ever reason when I was in the Corps, certain batches of 40mm HEDP for the MK19 were garbage and caused lots of jamming.
View Quote
 I got sidelined by that in 03.  Burnt through a can melting buildings we were getting sniped from, and tossed the next can in and they wouldn't de-link. No other lot numbers either after trying a few other cans. 

Fortunately I got the one that was snapping rounds on me with the first can. 
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:24:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thats what shitty headspace and timing will do. There are go/no go gauges for a reason.
View Quote
This.  That gunner didn't do his job.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:27:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Back when timing was an operator and not armorer task, it was pretty common.

Had a squad leader tell me not to waste my time with the ma deuce, but little did he know, I actually knew how to properly time it.

200 round burst happened immediately following his comment.
View Quote
When did headspace and timing become armorer lvl? Every time you set up a 50 you have to set it... makes no sense for an armorer to do it. Ask any 50 gunner and he will tell you his headspace and timing gauge is worth its weight in gold. A really good gunner will know his barrels intimately and will know how many clicks to back off for headspacing.

As far as the video goes could be a lot of things no way to tell just by watching.

As far as the comment on sluggishness above that does not mean timing. If you remove the back plate you will see a notch on the back of the buffer this is used to adjust fireing rate within a small margin.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:34:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


When did headspace and timing become armorer lvl?
View Quote
M2A1 started getting fielded in 2011.
Timing is locked, and armorer adjustment only.  Barrel is inserted and rotated 60 degrees to lock in place.  No operator adjustable headspace anymore.

All the guns will be upgraded in the next few years.  The USMC and Navy has also started upgrading their guns.

Eta:  The adjustable buffer hasn't been made since Korea, but they may still be used until replaced by attrition, and there are still a lot of them out there, but the majority of guns will not have it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:38:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


M2A1 started getting fielded in 2011.
Timing is locked, and armorer adjustment only.  Barrel is inserted and rotated 60 degrees to lock in place.  No operator adjustable headspace anymore.

All the guns will be upgraded in the next few years.  The USMC and Navy has also started upgrading their guns.
View Quote
Is that the one with the safety underneath the single/full auto latch?
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:39:56 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Is that the one with the safety underneath the sing/full auto dial?
View Quote
All the M2s were upgrade with the safety via MWO shortly before the M2A1 came out.  Sometime around 2008-2009.  The m2 and M2A1 have the same trigger block safety.

Eta: all the Army M2s.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:15:46 AM EDT
How come it doesn't cycle a round out when he pulls the charging handle. I know it's normal, no fifty does, but why is that? What exactly happens in there when the CH is cycled?
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:17:07 AM EDT
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Quoted:


This....the timing is way off....
View Quote
This.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:21:39 AM EDT
Piece of shit NCO not making sure his piece of shit soldier did their fucking job.

That's why it jammed.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:23:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thats what shitty headspace and timing will do. There are go/no go gauges for a reason.
View Quote
this part 
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:25:23 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
M2A1 started getting fielded in 2011.
Timing is locked, and armorer adjustment only.  Barrel is inserted and rotated 60 degrees to lock in place.  No operator adjustable headspace anymore.

All the guns will be upgraded in the next few years.  The USMC and Navy has also started upgrading their guns.

Eta:  The adjustable buffer hasn't been made since Korea, but they may still be used until replaced by attrition, and there are still a lot of them out there, but the majority of guns will not have it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


When did headspace and timing become armorer lvl?
M2A1 started getting fielded in 2011.
Timing is locked, and armorer adjustment only.  Barrel is inserted and rotated 60 degrees to lock in place.  No operator adjustable headspace anymore.

All the guns will be upgraded in the next few years.  The USMC and Navy has also started upgrading their guns.

Eta:  The adjustable buffer hasn't been made since Korea, but they may still be used until replaced by attrition, and there are still a lot of them out there, but the majority of guns will not have it.
I thought I'd heard of this but I didn't know any of the details.

I found this on YouTube;
US Army PEO Soldier - M2A1 .50 Cal Heavy Machine Guns Upgrading [1080p]
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:25:34 AM EDT
Gunner had no safety belt on

or poor timing was off
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:30:56 AM EDT
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Quoted:
50BMG made by Kimber??
View Quote
Lol.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:41:07 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Piece of shit NCO not making sure his piece of shit soldier did their fucking job.

That's why it jammed.
View Quote
Glad to see I'm not the only one who can grasp the true issue.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:43:28 AM EDT
I agree it sounds slow, so probably late timing.

But if you watch the charging handle when he releases it and listen to the gun shut on charging, that thing is either full of crap or has no lube. That you can hear how slowly the thing returns to battery.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 6:43:44 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Piece of shit NCO not making sure his piece of shit soldier did their fucking job.

That's why it jammed.
View Quote
If I'm not mistaken I thought I saw MARPAT?
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 8:50:47 AM EDT
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Quoted:
How come it doesn't cycle a round out when he pulls the charging handle. I know it's normal, no fifty does, but why is that? What exactly happens in there when the CH is cycled?
View Quote
It is stopping with the bolt jammed to the rear, that is why it does not cycle out a live round.   When it runs sluggish like that it jams in one of two ways.  Either the spent case is not pushed out of the T slot fast enough, and the neck has jammed against the bottom of the barrel extension, or the next round is not pushed far enough down, and the nose of the bullet hits the back end of the barrel on top instead of feeding into the chamber.

Either way you only need to pull the bolt back that last inch and let it go and the jam clears.  

Eta: It's funny, the GD response in this thread actually mirror the real world. Everyone always blames timing regardless of if it's the real cause of not.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 8:52:50 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It is stopping with the bolt jammed to the rear, that is why it does not cycle out a live round.   When it runs sluggish like that it jams in one of two ways.  Either the spent case is not pushed out of the T slot fast enough, and the neck has jammed against the bottom of the barrel extension, or the next round is not pushed far enough down, and the nose of the bullet hits the back end of the barrel on top instead of feeding into the chamber.

Either way you only need to pull the bolt back that last inch and let it go and the jam clears.  
View Quote
Kthx.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 8:57:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I had a gun blow up in my face on a range at FOB Falcon that had wood space grips and a wood charging handle. It was either that shitty IWI ammo there was problems with or the latch was worn on the 80+ year old gun.
View Quote
May 2010?

Edit: Never mind, just noticed you are a Marine, that was an Army gun.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 8:58:44 AM EDT
This is what happens when you don't enforce the grooming standards.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 9:05:39 AM EDT
Turn your sound on.  He said it's jamming.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 9:20:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It is stopping with the bolt jammed to the rear, that is why it does not cycle out a live round.   When it runs sluggish like that it jams in one of two ways.  Either the spent case is not pushed out of the T slot fast enough, and the neck has jammed against the bottom of the barrel extension, or the next round is not pushed far enough down, and the nose of the bullet hits the back end of the barrel on top instead of feeding into the chamber.

Either way you only need to pull the bolt back that last inch and let it go and the jam clears.  

Eta: It's funny, the GD response in this thread actually mirror the real world. Everyone always blames timing regardless of if it's the real cause of not.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How come it doesn't cycle a round out when he pulls the charging handle. I know it's normal, no fifty does, but why is that? What exactly happens in there when the CH is cycled?
It is stopping with the bolt jammed to the rear, that is why it does not cycle out a live round.   When it runs sluggish like that it jams in one of two ways.  Either the spent case is not pushed out of the T slot fast enough, and the neck has jammed against the bottom of the barrel extension, or the next round is not pushed far enough down, and the nose of the bullet hits the back end of the barrel on top instead of feeding into the chamber.

Either way you only need to pull the bolt back that last inch and let it go and the jam clears.  

Eta: It's funny, the GD response in this thread actually mirror the real world. Everyone always blames timing regardless of if it's the real cause of not.
It does look like a few times he charges and nothing happens, is he just not pulling far enough to clear the jam?
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