[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why does arfcom hate management? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/26/2016 12:54:29 PM EDT
| It seems like every time someone complains about a manager they work under the guys here have a brogasm in support. Why does arfcom hate those who are willing to bear the stress-laden burden of success? Is it because they make more money? Is it because they tell you what to do(like a boss?!)? Is it because they are not an expert in the minutia of whatever your particular job is? Why the hate for a guy or gal with a tough job to do? |
| Some of the hate is legit, because all managers are not good. Most of the hate is because many employees are poor performers. How many people do you work with who are terrible employees, employees that do just enough to not get fired? Well those guys complain about their boss. |
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Because most workers see managers in an office and automatically think because they are not physically doing work that they must be up there scheming for ways to make them miserable. It boils down to jealousy, and a complete misunderstanding of what management is and does.
My personal favorite is when they bitch about how "he can't do my job how is he my boss?" Herp derp. My boss can't do many of the specifics of my job....but he can put me and my other coworkers in the correct setting with the correct training to make sure we excel at our jobs. It works well for everyone, and everyone is happy. |
| It's hard to respect the managers (as managers I mean-- they're good guys for the most part) at my place because I make more than they do with my overtime. I can't understand why they would take the piddly difference in pay for the added responsibility and the occasional need to be an asshole. I'll stick with where I'm at and won't have to worry about the paperwork and politics. |
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Quoted:
It's hard to respect the managers (as managers I mean-- they're good guys for the most part) at my place because I make more than they do with my overtime. I can't understand why they would take the piddly difference in pay for the added responsibility and the occasional need to be an asshole. I'll stick with where I'm at and won't have to worry about the paperwork and politics. So, they are motivated by something else, make a choice you personally don't understand, therefore you don't respect them? Yeah, that's exactly what the OP is talking about. |
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Quoted:
It seems like every time someone complains about a manager they work under the guys here have a brogasm in support. Why does arfcom hate those who are willing to bear the stress-laden burden of success? Is it because they make more money? Is it because they tell you what to do(like a boss?!)? Is it because they are not an expert in the minutia of whatever your particular job is? Why the hate for a guy or gal with a tough job to do? The Peter Principle: Everyone rises to their level of incompetence. |
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Quoted:
It's hard to respect the managers (as managers I mean-- they're good guys for the most part) at my place because I make more than they do with my overtime. I can't understand why they would take the piddly difference in pay for the added responsibility and the occasional need to be an asshole. I'll stick with where I'm at and won't have to worry about the paperwork and politics. That sounds more of a company problem then a management problem. Your managers need more responsibilities and pay if the difference between you and their jobs is as you describe. And you say with your overtime you can make more, Are you working 65 hours a week and your manager working 40? If so that's a huge benefit to being your manager. |
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Simple really,
Managers are the henchmen of the office. They are told by higher ups to deliver numbers. Some love the power that they wield. Not ALL managers are like that but I have met quite a few that support my theory. "Nice" managers don't stay long. I had an office manager that was a complete bitch... Her name was Elizabeth and she got the nickname "Elizabitch" Most hated her but the head honchos LOVED her. Because she delivered customer satisfaction and treated us like shit to do so. |
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Why does arfcom hate those who are willing to bear the stress-laden burden of success? 
Define success. Personally, I tend to hate management because they do their job poorly and make my job harder and my future less secure. If you are talking about supervisors, I only hate the ones who are terrible at their job, but they also make less than me, have more responsibilities, and less flexibility. That is why I chose not to become "successful" like them. 
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Good managers are truly great to work for but most managers are not good managers. This^ The perception is;A large percentage of "Managers" Are clueless and do a terrible job. The current educational system does a terrible job of training people for management positions. Please provide your examples of great managers who have saved their company and made life great for their employees. I would love to have my perception changed. 
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Quoted:
That sounds more of a company problem then a management problem. Your managers need more responsibilities and pay if the difference between you and their jobs is as you describe. And you say with your overtime you can make more, Are you working 65 hours a week and your manager working 40? If so that's a huge benefit to being your manager. It is a company problem and I'm only talking about the situation at my job. On the OT, it isn't that far apart on hours. I do work a lot by choice, though, and I'll bet I doubled my boss's salary this year as a result. |
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Good managers are truly great to work for but most managers are not good managers. I have found that, like in politics, a certain 'type' seeks power, they are usually not that smart but very good at playing the system and playing mind games. I have had several terrific bosses over the years and I will never forget them because they are the exception to the rule. A lot of arrogance, a lot of egotism, a lot of playing the blame game when something goes wrong and taking credit for the work of those under them types though. At this age, I have pretty much seen it all, including one woman boss who tried to get me to...lets just say 'take care of her needs' and leave it at that and no, she was NOT hot. 
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I've had some really great bosses over the years but I've had some real shitty ones too.
Some of them get into simply for the money and aren't really cut out for leadership roles. Others do it because their lives are so inconsequential they need power over someone because they have none at home. When you get a true leader who not only cares about their job but their subordinates as well, you should feel lucky. |
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Quoted:
That sounds more of a company problem then a management problem. Your managers need more responsibilities and pay if the difference between you and their jobs is as you describe. And you say with your overtime you can make more, Are you working 65 hours a week and your manager working 40? If so that's a huge benefit to being your manager. Quoted:
Quoted:
It's hard to respect the managers (as managers I mean-- they're good guys for the most part) at my place because I make more than they do with my overtime. I can't understand why they would take the piddly difference in pay for the added responsibility and the occasional need to be an asshole. I'll stick with where I'm at and won't have to worry about the paperwork and politics. That sounds more of a company problem then a management problem. Your managers need more responsibilities and pay if the difference between you and their jobs is as you describe. And you say with your overtime you can make more, Are you working 65 hours a week and your manager working 40? If so that's a huge benefit to being your manager. Managers are usually salaried. For us, the managers make more in salary than hourly makes at 40 hours, but the managers have to be there an hour before and an hour after the shift for the same pay. When you start working OT, the hourly guys are making more than the salary guys who still have to be there more hours. |
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Quoted:
It seems like every time someone complains about a manager they work under the guys here have a brogasm in support. Why does arfcom hate those who are willing to bear the stress-laden burden of success? Is it because they make more money? Is it because they tell you what to do(like a boss?!)? Is it because they are not an expert in the minutia of whatever your particular job is? Why the hate for a guy or gal with a tough job to do? Because experience has taught us that most of the time someone isn't in a management position because they are the most qualified. Â |
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OP I am in management, and I hate management. The plebs aren't the only ones who have disdain for their bosses. I've been at my job a very long time and have known many of the management guys for longer than they've known one another. We shoot the shit about life quite a bit, and you are very much correct. Lots of fuck-fuck and okie-dokin' going on in those offices, which is another reason I'm happy with my blue collar. |
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no boss is fair, because life isn't fair but a good boss is just.
no boss is right all the time but does their best to be right when the right moment counts the most and willing to sacrifice all they've strived for to hit that spot. no boss, unless he owns the place, is always making the call they just made and even as an owner, costs and income manage all your decisions, often times decisions you'd not make, given a choice. no boss desires to be friendless, disrespected, mistreated or called names behind their back by the same pinhead who wants a do over tomorrow, one more chance to NEVEH be late for work again or lied to about your 7th grandmothers funeral. no boss wants to stand up and defend keeping YOUR sorry ass employed one more day because you actually are worth $3 an hour more than that other jerk off who's been there longer than you OR work all the holidays, worry about your baby sitter being available tomorrow or the stress on the contentment and future employment of you and 3 to 3000 of your fellow employees, every day, 24 hours a day..but, as they're given a gift, divination, direction or just happens to be the last person standing when the last boss walked out the door, who threw the keys to... but, some LEAD others Follow or GET THE FUK OUT OF THE WAY.. Chef |
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Managers, even when selected through some sort of "not-shady" process, if such a thing exists, are still usually little more than the best of limited options. Very rarely, when a better management option presents itself are the powers that be even paying attention, much less willing to demote the current manager and promote a better one. I have managed people who should have been my boss, and probably my boss's boss.
Then of course, is the tendency for people who people who are promoted to view that as validation of EVERYTHING about them, and be very blind to their shortcomings. That one took me a long time to learn about myself. |
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Why you ask.
Generalizing a bit here. We'll because the average lacky worker thinks they understand what it takes to run a successful business. They do not. They also do not realize that they can easily be replaced. They all think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Good managers know how to keep things in check and make the company profitable. Great managers know how to keep things in check, make money and treat thier workforce with respect. But really most all workers think they are special snowflakes that are smarter than everyone. |
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Quoted:
A good manager helps me get the job done. A bad manager takes credit for my good work and throws me under the bus to their boss when I did exactly what they told me to do if a project was done incorrectly. FIFY. I had a boss previously that was a great manager but had zero integrity. Then company did a reorganization and I was moved under a different boss along with a few emoyees under me. Night and day difference. Such a great manager, that also knew how to do my job, I felt bad leaving when I got a promotion because my position was eliminated via attrition. |
| The Peter principle is a concept in management theory formulated by Laurence J. Peter in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence." |
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Quoted:
Why you ask. Generalizing a bit here. We'll because the average lacky worker thinks they understand what it takes to run a successful business. They do not. They also do not realize that they can easily be replaced. They all think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Good managers know how to keep things in check and make the company profitable. Great managers know how to keep things in check, make money and treat thier workforce with respect. But really most all workers think they are special snowflakes that are smarter than everyone. +1000. Where I work the lowest paid guys typically have the most opinions on how to change the company for the better. It's great. |
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Where I work the funding for the actual work comes in from a completely different chain than management, we are like a bunch of independent contractors getting our own funding. I don't see a need for any management beyond the group level (20-30) employees. With groups being formed based on project needs. Management needs to be ad-hoc and follow the funding, because in practice that is what actually happens.
We have management above the group leader level, but they don't do much at all. They have little to no power to steer funding, only say no and prevent you from pursuing funding. Plus via the overhead system I pay their salary by getting funding, and to me management past group level is low return on investment. |
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Most employees don't understand that management is paid to make decisions and execution of that decision. Right or wrong it is the vision, not to make life easier for employees. A good manager will listen but ultimately make a decision on his own.
Even though I was a VP, I tried every job in my command line just to understand it. Not that I could fill in day to day but I've entered invoices into the system, made accounting journal entries, assembled auto parts, even followed maintenance crews for a day. I feel if I don't at least understand the basic principles of the jobs below, I cannot form a somewhat accurate vision. |
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I don't hate Management, I do not care for bad managers. Personally, I've always tried to move up, I don't care for being the low guy on the totem pole, and am not simply satisfied by just going to work, clocking in clocking out.
I have also been blessed with an extremely high ratio of good managers to bad, and for that I'm grateful. |
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Quoted:
It seems like every time someone complains about a manager they work under the guys here have a brogasm in support. Why does arfcom hate those who are willing to bear the stress-laden burden of success? Is it because they make more money? Is it because they tell you what to do(like a boss?!)? Is it because they are not an expert in the minutia of whatever your particular job is? Why the hate for a guy or gal with a tough job to do? The only standard of what arfcom hates is based on which way the pile-on is leaning I've also notices it tends to be contrary to whatever the opinion of an OP is, even if they had no previous convictions one way or the other. This, in turn, allows them to post "I don't think this is going the way the OP thought it would". Does that clear everything up? 
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This times 100.
And it's getting worse with the advent of SJW idiots and ''minorities'' that don't have a clue about how everything works. [but they have a business ''degree'' so that makes them somehow qualified] It is a pleasure to work under someone, no matter the color or sex, that knows the business and even if they make a decision that you may not agree with, has a plan that makes sense long term even when short term, it seem stupid. If they push SJW and sexist/race groups, they tend to suck donkey balls at running the business. |
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Quoted:
The only standard of what arfcom hates is based on which way the pile-on is leaning I've also notices it tends to be contrary to whatever the opinion of an OP is, even if they had no previous convictions one way or the other. This, in turn, allows them to post "I don't think this is going the way the OP thought it would". Does that clear everything up? This guy understands Arfcom. For instance, today the pile-on is leaning in favor of people who don't know nothing about management. |
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Quoted:
The only standard of what arfcom hates is based on which way the pile-on is leaning I've also notices it tends to be contrary to whatever the opinion of an OP is, even if they had no previous convictions one way or the other. This, in turn, allows them to post "I don't think this is going the way the OP thought it would". Does that clear everything up? I love it, the perfect summary. 
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Becoming a yes man for corporate who tells you that you are good doesn't magically make you good. Attached File |
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Depends on the gripe youre talkin about.
Upper management in general round here gets a bad rap because of the dumb decisions they make on the grander scale. A good firstline sup always gets recognized by the troops because they are genuinely a good supervisor. There are also bad supervisors, they are usually the ones with bad people skills and poor management skills. The disdain for them is deserved. Just because someone chooses the life of a sup doesn't make them worthy. |
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I'm in management, so here goes:
The reason for the disdain at the blue collar level, by and large, is the result of each individual contributor thinking one of three things: 1) Boss doesn't know what I do or how I do it, therefore I don't respect him/her and as such will not endeavor to give my true 100% potential. 2) I (the worker) am the single cog in the wheel that makes everything move. The biggest problem of my day should be the biggest problem of everyone's day and no one will be satisfied until I'm satisfied. "This business would fail without me." 3) I (the worker) play a critical role on my team, but because of my own reservations about my apptitude, and the other people I work with (who generally fall into the above two catagories), I'm going to put my head down, not make waves, and hope I keep my job. I performance management number ones out of my business. They each have roughly 45 days to prove that they understand I don't need to know how to farm chicken eggs or grind flour to make a kickass cake. Number twos are generally selfish assholes who you always hear "Have a better job offer somewhere else" or could do it so much better themselves, yet they have been in the same role for 25 years and never raise their hand. General lack of professional (and typically personal) courage. I generally focus on coaching up type 3 people and running the business. I'm responsible for maintaining and growing a 40M business- I typically don't have a minute to spare trying to "save" people that don't want to be a part of the overall team. For the most part- that's perceived by the bad eggs as a lack of care, but in reality, I'm just trying to get you off my team within the confines of my HR requirements. I do agree with some other posters- there is absolutely a difference between a manager and a leader. I've seen many people are two strong one way or the other get walked out of a role. A balance is important. |
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Quoted:
+1000. Where I work the lowest paid guys typically have the most opinions on how to change the company for the better. It's great. Where I work, staff are very difficult and expensive to replace, and yet we can't retain them. We have 22 positions. Here's a summary of 2016: We hired 12 new trainees. Of those, only 3 are still with us, including one still in her third week of training. We rehired 1 former employee. We lost 2 employees hired prior to 2016. We have 3 open positions currently. Management, myself included, wants to bitch because we have to work extra shifts due to being so shorthanded. But, we don't seem to want to admit that we have a problem. I'm thinking it's time we ask the people we pay the the least what we need to change to make this place better, because it's the people we pay the least that we don't seem to be able to retain. Maybe it's pay, but I have a suspicion that there's more to it than that. |