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Posted: 9/30/2005 7:47:55 AM EDT
History buffs, any insight?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:50:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 7:52:11 AM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Cause they're French?


They use to be a force to be reckoned with...but that was loooooong ago.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:51:40 AM EDT

Never heard of Napoleon?


Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:52:55 AM EDT
They ran out of strong men after the Brits got through with them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:55:33 AM EDT
They didn't back in the day. Check out some casualty lists from WWI.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:58:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 8:01:49 AM EDT by ASNixon]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?






Napoleon wasn't French.


Edited to say: at least by birth.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:59:35 AM EDT
The French didn't surrender in WW1.

Napoleon did a dang good job of not surrendering.

They did about as well as we did in Vietnam.

France had troops in Korea. No surrenders there.

France provided troops in the First Gulf War.

Av.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:03:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 8:04:05 AM EDT by rifleman2000]

Originally Posted By Avalon01:
The French didn't surrender in WW1.

They would have if they weren't bailed out.

Napoleon did a dang good job of not surrendering.

He did surrender, in the end. Plus, he was from Corsica, not France.

They did about as well as we did in Vietnam.

Bullshit, they lost militarily, we lost because of hippies.

France had troops in Korea. No surrenders there.

Small force under US command.

France provided troops in the First Gulf War.

See above.

Av.




Now a compilation of their other great military exploits.

Lost Canada to the Brits.

Lost the Franco Prussian war.

Aborted an invasion of Mexico after the US Civil War ended.

WWII. The humanity!

Yeah, and their military today is in shambles, underfunded and under-equipped.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:05:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 8:06:38 AM EDT by dvr9]
Methinks this needs to be posted again.

The Complete Military History of France
Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Norse Invasions: Lost. King Charles the Simple buys peace with the Norsemen by giving them Normandy.

Moorish Invasions: Lost. Charlemagne scoots behind the Pyrennes.

Third Crusade: Philip Augustus gets mad at Richard the Lion Heart and goes home.

Seventh Crusade: Lost. St. Louis' crusade to Eqypt resoundingly crushed.

Eighth Crusade: Lost. St. Louis goes to Tunis.

Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates the


First Rule of French Warfare:
France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.
Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.


Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

Thirty Years War: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution: Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre: Won, because the opponent was also French.

The Dutch War: Tied.

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War: Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

War of the Spanish Succession:
Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as de Gaulle Syndrome, and leads to the


Second Rule of French Warfare:
France only wins when America does most of the fighting.
This was part of a much larger worldwide war against the British, which the French lost since the Americans weren't participants.
French Revolution: Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.


Quasi-War: Tied. France, angry that the US normalized relations with the British, seizes US ships in the Caribbean and decrees war on American shipping worldwide. France conveniently ignores that the US and France have a treaty of alliance that effectively makes the US a subject state of France. American envoys in Paris are told that they must pay a $250,000 bribe to the French Foreign Minister and a $10,000,000 "loan" to France before the French will even consider negotiations (XYZ Affair). US refuses to pay, builds up a navy which promptly seizes 80 French ships, and continues to sue for peace. Delighted British offer aid to the US against the French. Ends when Napoleon seizes power in Paris and abandons North America. Napoleon also agrees to abrogate the unequal treaty of alliance, making the US truly independent for the first time. Produces the


First Rule of American Diplomacy:
You'll regret making any alliance with the French.
The US makes no other treaties of alliance for nearly 150 years.


Haitian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a European army by African slaves, and produces the


First Rule of African Warfare:
We can always beat the French.


The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

India: Lost, to the British.

Mexican Empire War: Lost. Napoleon III takes advantage of US Civil War to invade Mexico. Collapse of the Confederacy dashes plans to invade Louisiana. Saber-rattling by reunified US leads to hasty French withdrawal, leaving puppet Austrian "Emperor of Mexico" to face a Mexican firing squad.

The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

Panama Jungles: Lost this time to vegetation and mosquitoes.

World War I: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

World War II (first act): Lost to the Germans. Conquered French liberated, against their will, by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

World War II (second act): Lost to the Italians. True, the Germans already had France on the ropes, but nevertheless France is the first and only country to ever lose three wars when fighting Italians!

World War II (third act): Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French: its Jewish population. Vichy government consistently gives Germans more than the Germans ask when it comes to anti-Semitic policies.

World War II (fourth act): Lost, this time to the Americans in North Africa. Ostensibly independent collaborationist Vichy government immediately occupied by Hitler, putting to an end the myth of "unoccupied France." Vichy remains popular with the French people until it became clear that Germany was losing the war.

World War II (fifth act): Reminiscent of the American Revolution, France claims a win even though the British and Americans did all the work (remember the Second Rule!) of liberating France, and the British, Americans, and especially the Russians did all the work of defeating Germany. France demands (and, amazingly, gets) a spot as one of the victorious Allies; and even more amazingly gets a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu. The US, forgetting the First Rule of American Diplomacy, steps into the mess and spends the next 20 years getting out.

Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the


First Rule of Muslim Warfare:
We can always beat the French.
This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Haitians, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.


Ivory Coast Conflict: On the way to losing (remember the First Rule of African Warfare!).

War on Terrorism: France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's. With fond memories of its World War II (third act) victories, forms new military alliance with Germany against the US.

60th Anniversary of D-Day: France repulses an invasion of elderly British veterans who seek to attend memorial ceremonies on the beaches of Normandy.

Today: The French government raises its terror alert level from run to hide. The only two higher levels in France are surrender and collaborate. The raise was precipitated by a recent fire which destroyed one of France's white flag factories, disabling their military.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be
Can we count on the French, but rather...

How long until France collapses?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:05:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:
The French didn't surrender in WW1.

They would have if they weren't bailed out.

Napoleon did a dang good job of not surrendering.

He did surrender, in the end. Plus, he was from Corsica, not France.

They did about as well as we did in Vietnam.

Bullshit, they lost militarily, we lost because of hippies.

France had troops in Korea. No surrenders there.

Small force under US command.

France provided troops in the First Gulf War.

See above.

Av.




Now a compilation of their other great military exploits.

Lost Canada to the Brits.

Lost the Franco Prussian war.

Aborted an invasion of Mexico after the US Civil War ended.

WWII. The humanity!

Yeah, and their military today is in shambles, underfunded and under-equipped.




Didn't they just get run out of the Ivory Coast?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:08:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ASNixon:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?






Napoleon wasn't French.


Edited to say: at least by birth.



That's really a technicality. At the time of this birth, Corsica was a French territory.

Plus, the troops that he led when he rampaged across Europe were mostly french, and mostly did not surrender to anyone (despite eventually being trounced by Wellington). Plus - did the French surrender at Waterloo, or did they just get their asses kicked? (Not an expert on Napoleonic Wars)
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:08:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 10:21:13 AM EDT by Bigheadcal]
Napoleon and WW1 took all the fight out of em'

only thing left were pussies and intellectuals
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:09:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?





He wasn't French, he was Corsican.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:11:59 AM EDT
Because fighting is such nasty business, they break your wine bottles and steal your cheese!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:12:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus - did the French surrender at Waterloo, or did they just get their asses kicked? (Not an expert on Napoleonic Wars)



Retreated in semi-disorder, that is to say, some to their units were in dis-order, others weren't. But an uneffective fighting force when facing Wellington and Blucher combined.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:12:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?





He wasn't French, he was Corsican.



And Corsica was a french territory at the time of his birth - and most of his troops (who didn't surrender in all the battels across europe) were French.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:25:14 AM EDT

Didn't they just get run out of the Ivory Coast?


Negative, they are still here and they did kick Ivoirian ass. The Ivoirians are very adept at killing and raping unarmed civilians, especially French civilians. Put them up against even the French military and they fall apart.

Ask me how I know, I live here for two more days and a wake up.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:27:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?





He wasn't French, he was Corsican.



And Corsica was a french territory at the time of his birth - and most of his troops (who didn't surrender in all the battels across europe) were French.



Ok, Corsica was a French Territory, but not native French. So was Morroco (a protectorate)- but try telling the Morrocans that made them French. So we go to the first rule listed above:

First Rule of French Warfare:
France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman.


Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:33:40 AM EDT
I didn't write this. It comes from an article written for the Exile, a Moscow based American journal.


The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like “I Hate France,” with supposed datelines of French military history, supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If you want to see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:

www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

Well, I’m going to tell you guys something you probably don’t want to hear: these sites are total bullshit, the notion that the French are cowards is total bullshit, and anybody who knows anything about European military history knows damn well that over the past thousand years, the French have the most glorious military history in Europe, maybe the world.

Before you send me more of those death threats, let me finish. I hate Chirac too, and his disco foreign minister with the blow-dry ‘do and the snotty smile. But there are two things I hate more than I hate the French: ignorant fake war buffs, and people who are ungrateful. And when an American mouths off about French military history, he’s not just being ignorant, he’s being ungrateful. I was raised to think ungrateful people were trash.

When I say ungrateful, I’m talking about the American Revolution. If you’re a true American patriot, then this is the war that matters. Hell, most of you probably couldn’t name three major battles from it, but try going back to when you read Johnny Tremaine in fourth grade and you might recall a little place called Yorktown, Virginia, where we bottled up Cornwallis’s army, forced the Brits’ surrender and pretty much won the war.

Well, news flash: “we” didn’t win that battle, any more than the Northern Alliance conquered the Taliban. The French army and navy won Yorktown for us. Americans didn’t have the materiel or the training to mount a combined operation like that, with naval blockade and land siege. It was the French artillery forces and military engineers who ran the siege, and at sea it was a French admiral, de Grasse, who kicked the shit out of the British navy when they tried to break the siege.

Long before that, in fact as soon as we showed the Brits at Saratoga that we could win once in a while, they started pouring in huge shipments of everything from cannon to uniforms. We’d never have got near Yorktown if it wasn’t for massive French aid.

So how come you bastards don’t mention Yorktown in your cheap webpages? I’ll tell you why: because you’re too ignorant to know about it and too dishonest to mention it if you did.

The thing that gets to me is why Americans hate the French so much when they only did us good and never did us any harm. Like, why not hate the Brits? They’re the ones who killed thousands of Americans in the Revolution, and thirty years later they came back and attacked us again. That time around they managed to burn Washington DC to the ground while they were at it. How come you web jerks never mention that?

Sure, the easy answer is because the Brits are with us now, and the French aren’t. But being a war buff means knowing your history and respecting it.

Well, so much for ungrateful. Now let’s talk about ignorant. And that’s what you are if you think the French can’t fight: just plain ignorant. Appreciation of the French martial spirit is just about the most basic way you can distinguish real war nerds from fake little teachers’pets.

Let’s take the toughest case first: the German invasion, 1940, when the French Army supposedly disgraced itself against the Wehrmacht. This is the only real evidence you’ll find to call the French cowards, and the more you know about it, the less it proves. Yeah, the French were scared of Hitler. Who wasn’t? Chamberlain, the British prime minister, all but licked the Fuhrer’s goosesteppers, basically let him have all of Central Europe, because Britain was terrified of war with Germany. Hell, Stalin signed a sweetheart deal with Hitler out of sheer terror, and Stalin wasn’t a man who scared easy.

The French were scared, all right. But they had reason to be. For starters, they’d barely begun to recover from their last little scrap with the Germans: a little squabble you might’ve heard of, called WW I.

WW I was the worst war in history to be a soldier in. WW II was worse if you were a civilian, but the trenches of WW I were five years of Hell like General Sherman never dreamed of. At the end of it a big chunk of northern France looked like the surface of the moon, only bloodier, nothing but craters and rats and entrails.

Verdun. Just that name was enough to make Frenchmen and Germans, the few who survived it, wake up yelling for years afterward. The French lost 1.5 million men out of a total population of 40 million fighting the Germans from 1914-1918. A lot of those guys died charging German machine-gun nests with bayonets. I’d really like to see one of you office smartasses joke about “surrender monkeys” with a French soldier, 1914 vintage. You’d piss your dockers.

Shit, we strut around like we’re so tough and we can’t even handle a few uppity Iraqi villages. These guys faced the Germans head on for five years, and we call them cowards? And at the end, it was the Germans, not the French, who said “calf rope.”

When the sequel war came, the French relied on their frontier fortifications and used their tanks (which were better than the Germans’, one on one) defensively. The Germans had a newer, better offensive strategy. So they won. And the French surrendered. Which was damn sensible of them.

This was the WEHRMACHT. In two years, they conquered all of Western Europe and lost only 30,000 troops in the process. That’s less than the casualties of Gettysburg. You get the picture? Nobody, no army on earth, could’ve held off the Germans under the conditions that the French faced them. The French lost because they had a long land border with Germany. The English survived because they had the English Channel between them and the Wehrmacht. When the English Army faced the Wermacht at Dunkirk, well, thanks to spin the tuck-tail-and-flee result got turned into some heroic tale of a brilliant British retreat. The fact is, even the Brits behaved like cowards in the face of the Wermacht, abandoning the French. It’s that simple.

Here’s a quick sampler of some of my favorite French victories, like an antidote to those ignorant websites. We’ll start way back and move up to the 20th century.

Tours, 732 AD: The Muslims had already taken Spain and were well on their way to taking the rest of Europe. The only power with a chance of stopping them was the French army under Charles “the Hammer” Martel, King of the Franks (French), who answered to the really cool nickname “the Hammer of God.” It was the French who saved the continent’s ass. All the smart money was on the Muslims: there were 60,000 of them, crazy Jihadis whose cavalry was faster and deadlier than any in Europe. The French army was heavily outnumbered and had no cavalry. Fighting in phalanxes, they held against dozens of cavalry charges and after at least two days of hand-to-hand combat, finally managed to hack their way to the Muslim center and kill their commander. The Muslims retreated to Spain, and Europe developed as an independent civilization.

Orleans, May 1429: Joan of Arc: is she the most insanely cool military commander in history or what? This French peasant girl gets instructions from her favorite saints to help out the French against the English invaders. She goes to the King (well, the Dauphin, but close enough) and tells him to give her the army and she’ll take it from there. And somehow she convinces him. She takes the army, which has lost every battle it’s been in lately, to Orleans, which is under English siege. Now Joan is a nice girl, so she tries to settle things peaceably. She explains in a letter to the enemy commanders that everything can still be cool, “…provided you give up France…and go back to your own countries, for God’s sake. And if you do not, wait for the Maid, who will visit you briefly to your great sorrow.” The next day she put on armor, mounted a charger, and prepared to lead the attack on the besiegers’ fortifications. She ordered the gates opened, but the Mayor refused until Joan explained that she, personally, would cut off his head. The gates went up, the French sallied out, and Joan led the first successful attack they’d made in years. The English strongpoints were taken, the siege was broken, and Joan’s career in the cow-milking trade was over.

Braddock’s Defeat (aka Battle of Monongahela) July 1755: Next time you’re driving through the Ohio Valley, remember you’re passing near the site of a great French victory over an Anglo-American force twice its size. General Edward Braddock marched west from Virginia with 1,500 men—a very large army in 18th-c. America. His orders were to seize French land and forts in the Valley—your basic undeclared land-grab invasion. The French joined the local tribes to resist, and then set up a classic ambush. It was a slaughter. More than half of Braddock’s force—880 men—were killed or wounded. The only Anglo officer to escape unhurt was this guy called George Washington, and even he had two horses shot out from under him. After a few minutes of non-stop fire from French and Indians hidden in the woods, Braddock’s command came apart like something out of Nam, post-Tet. Braddock was hit and wounded, but none of his troops would risk getting shot to rescue him.

Austerlitz, Dec. 1805: You always hear about Austerlitz as “Napoleon’s Greatest Victory,” like the little guy personally went out and wiped out the combined Russian and Austrian armies. The fact is, ever since the Revolution in 1789, French armies had been kicking ass against everybody. They were free citizens fighting against scared peasant and degenerate mercenaries, and it was no contest. At Austerlitz, 65,000 French troops took on 90,000 Russians and Austrians and destroyed them. Absolutely annihilated them. The French lost only 8,000, compared to 29,000 of the enemy. The tactics Bonaparte used were very risky, and would only have worked with superb troops: he encouraged the enemy to attack a weak line, then brought up reinforcements who’d been held out of sight. That kind of tactical plan takes iron discipline and perfect timing—and the French had it.

Jena, Oct. 1806: just a quick reminder for anybody who thinks the Germans always beat the French. Napoleon takes on the Prussian army and destroys it. 27,000 Prussian casualties vs. 5,000 French. Prussian army routed, pursued for miles by French cavalry.

You eXile guys might want to remember that the French under Napoleon are still the only army ever to have taken all of continental Europe, from Moscow to Madrid. I could keep listing French victories till I had a book. In fact, it’s not a bad idea. A nice big hardback, so you could take it to the assholes running all the anti-French-military sites and bash their heads in with it.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:33:48 AM EDT
Last of the Mohicans...

...we have little to fear from the French. They have not the nature for war. Their Latinate voluptuousness combines with their Gallic laziness and the result is: they would rather make love with their faces than fight.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:59:12 AM EDT
At the current rate France will be an Islamic Republic in 20 yrs. The Cathedrals will be torn down and Mosques built on the sites. There will be huge speakers on the Eiffel Tower calling the masses to prayer. The women will wear burquas and have black eyes.

And the poor downtrodden Moslems will not be elevated, but rather all people will be subjugated as they are in the Middle East. France will truly be a 3rd world country.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:00:59 AM EDT
They are pussies.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:06:58 AM EDT
I hate to say this but:
Without the French we might have not won are independence from Great Britain.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:13:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By ASNixon:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?






Napoleon wasn't French.


Edited to say: at least by birth.



That's really a technicality. At the time of this birth, Corsica was a French territory.



DK-prof, as a history major I do take exception this.
I think that Napolean's not being a true frenchman was a major factor in his rise to power.
By this I mean that the French whom he attended military school with did not consider him french.
Naoplean was an ethnic minority, and along with his short stature, this played a part in his drive for success.

I hope that makes some sense.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:24:07 AM EDT
Why do they surrender so readily? Because they think being conquered is no big deal. Serious.

I was watching this really comprehensive History-Channel type documentary about WWII that covered each 6 months or so of the war.

Anyway, the part about France and the Maginot line..........

France had a HUGE army in 1940. 6 million men. Winston Churchill though it was the saving grace that kept Hitler in check. That didn't turn out to be true. Anyway, by the end, the historians said France just sort of accepted German rule like they'd accept having to use different postage stamps. No big deal. If your whole country takes being conquered so lightly, it's probably asking a lot for its army to die resisting it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:28:07 AM EDT
The last great French leader was Vercingetorix, about 2000 years ago.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:36:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QuantumPion:
The last great French leader was Vercingetorix, about 2000 years ago.



Charlemagne was French, wasn't he? Then there's Charles Martel who beat back the Muslims. Napoleon wasn't French, technically, but for all intents he counts. Dang, I still have uncounted fingers on one hand.......
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:48:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Never heard of Napoleon?






Its been all downhill since then.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:48:50 AM EDT
because they are lazy pussies !
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:07:43 PM EDT
The Romans beat thier asses too and alot of Roman slaves were Gaul(French). Since then you can count Frances militay high points on one hand France is the red headed step child of the world
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:23:22 PM EDT
The cancer of moral and ethical relativism has eroded their country from the inside out. They no longer have the national will to accept casualties for a cause, as they see any cause as suspect. How do you win a war if you hold that viewpoint?

This is why they have nothing but derision for anyone who stands up and takes a moral or ethical stand. They must be unsophisticated! They are too moronic to see the billions of shades of gray!

I think France hates America, but no one hates France more than the French.

Bon Appetit!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:26:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cheesebeast:
The cancer of moral and ethical relativism has eroded their country from the inside out. They no longer have the national will to accept casualties for a cause, as they see any cause as suspect. How do you win a war if you hold that viewpoint?

This is why they have nothing but derision for anyone who stands up and takes a moral or ethical stand. They must be unsophisticated! They are too moronic to see the billions of shades of gray!

I think France hates America, but no one hates France more than the French.

Bon Appetit!



There ya go - french weakness is a recent affectation.
However, they have always been arrogant pricks!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:37:32 PM EDT
I'm losing my time but i will try

I will only speak of the WWII-era as correcting the all the other BS will take me a lonnng time while it's already 1.00am here.

Between may and june 1940, 100 000 french soldiers died while raising their arms (that's equal to the amount of losses during the 6 first months of WWI).
You will have an hard time to find evidence of massive surrendering before the 16th june.
Now if you see what happened to Poland,Norway,benelux and the British Expeditionnary Force in France you will see that none allied army was ready to face invasion (military AND morally that's true).
In 1941 it was not really better: wermacht sized several millions of Russian Pow (now if you want to call the russian soldiers cowards...).
Birmania, Corregidor, Philippines were not very succesfull operations too.

After 1940 you will have another though time to find french defeats. Ohh of course french soldiers fighting on the allied side were few before 1943-44 but battles like Bir hakeim were rather importants. In 1943 after the initial fight against the allied, french forces took a major role in North Africa. The mostly over-shadowed operations in Italy were also great success for the french expeditionnary forces FEC lead by the general Juin,composed it's true of many african soldiers (monte-cassino, Garigliano...).
By 1944 there was as many french soldiers fighting on the European soil than English.

_Korea: already said

_Vietnam: if you look to the kill/death ratio French and american numbers are very close. There was 16,000 french soldiers in Dien ben phu: About 6,000 were KIA, 4,000 WIA, 5863 were still able to fight but without supply, arty and air support nor ammo and facing 60,000 viets. Again you can call them coward if you want .

_Algeria: Nearly the same situation than in Vietnam for the US forces. Not a single military french defeat, an HUGE k/d ratio but a political withdrawal.

Then: Kolwezi,Chad, Liban, Yougoslavia,Iraq (91), A-stan...


Now i'm awareeeeee that at the beginning all theses jokes are only... jokes but seeing them being many times accepted as fact is rather unconfortable (only after the 99999999 billion french cheese eater surrender mokeys jokes)

If one of these days i have time i will try to explain why you can't speak of "french" before the medieval period, why even if you want to look before you will see that all is nor really shamfull ( Sacking rome in - 387, conquering Greece and large part of the actual Turkey galate history ...)
Why when during the Cesarian gaul conquest the second rule of french warfare is true
Why there was not only 3 crusades.

Why despite all this cowardice France is still the biggest european territory and not speaking english, dutch or spanish.

And many other little facts.

Even if in reallity i hope that you will continue and ignore me because my english-fu is too weak for doing that and that i'm lazy as a french

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:42:28 PM EDT
Three guys, an Englishman, a Frenchman and a Welshman are out walking along the beach together one day. They come across a lantern and a genie pops out of it. "I will give you each one wish" says the genie.

The Welshman says, "I am a farmer, my dad was a farmer, and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in Wales."

With a blink of the genie's eye, 'FOOM' - the land in Wales was forever made fertile for farming.

The Frenchman was amazed, so he said, "I want a wall around France, so that no one can come into our precious country. Again, with a blink of the Genie's eye,'POOF' - there was a huge wall around France.

The Englishman asks, "I'm very curious. Please tell me more about this wall.

The Genie explains, "Well, it's about 150 feet high, 50 feet thick and nothing can get in or out."

The Englishman says, "Fill it up with water."

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:43:05 PM EDT
French Ban Fireworks at Euro Disney (AP), Paris, March 5, 2003

The French Government announced today that it is imposing a ban on the use of fireworks at Euro Disney.

The decision comes the day after a nightly fireworks display at the park, located just 30 miles outside of Paris, caused soldiers at a nearby French Army garrison to surrender to a group of Czech tourists.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:01:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
French Ban Fireworks at Euro Disney (AP), Paris, March 5, 2003

The French Government announced today that it is imposing a ban on the use of fireworks at Euro Disney.

The decision comes the day after a nightly fireworks display at the park, located just 30 miles outside of Paris, caused soldiers at a nearby French Army garrison to surrender to a group of Czech tourists.




oh no you just didn't

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:03:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:
The French didn't surrender in WW1.

They would have if they weren't bailed out.

Napoleon did a dang good job of not surrendering.

He did surrender, in the end. Plus, he was from Corsica, not France.

They did about as well as we did in Vietnam.

Bullshit, they lost militarily, we lost because of hippies.

France had troops in Korea. No surrenders there.

Small force under US command.

France provided troops in the First Gulf War.

See above.

Av.




Now a compilation of their other great military exploits.

Lost Canada to the Brits.

Lost the Franco Prussian war.

Aborted an invasion of Mexico after the US Civil War ended.

WWII. The humanity!

Yeah, and their military today is in shambles, underfunded and under-equipped.



They also lost the French and Indian war. (which they fought against us and Britain.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:16:42 PM EDT
Because they just suck!

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:40:02 PM EDT
Donald Rumsfeld (possibly)...
"Going to war without France is like going duck hunting without your accordion"

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:43:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:55:56 PM EDT
David Letterman's comment on Paris' current position on Iraq....
"France wants more evidence [of Iraqi violations]. The last time France wanted more evidence, it rolled right through France with a German flag."

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:20:46 PM EDT
To hazard a guess….

The famous French lack of bathing more than once a year causes nearly unlimited amounts of potential Biological/Chemical warfare every time a French armpit is exposed to the air.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:24:17 PM EDT
President Chirac... "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure,"
Rush Limbaugh... "As far as France is concerned, you're right."

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:29:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PerryF:
I hate to say this but:
Without the French we might have not won are independence from Great Britain.



Ok so we'd have traced the same historic-political path as Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand, and perhaps South Africa.

Not that bad when you consider the alternatives.

I'd rather be a subject of the Queen than a citizen of France any day.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:33:09 PM EDT
Franco Zeffirelli....if you live in a democracy, you have to trust your leaders.... and, on the whole, the leaders of Britain and the United States have a more distinguished record than their counterparts in France or Germany.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:33:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PerryF:
I hate to say this but:
Without the French we might have not won are independence from Great Britain.



It is the truth, although I think that we would have won indenpendence eventually, but it would have taken 20-50 years. The French were fighting the Brits globally during our revolution and drawing a lot of the pressure off of the American colonies.

That said, the French weren't aiding us out of any altruistic motives. The French aided us for the same reason that the Soviets aided the Vietnamese and that we aided the Afghans - because it hurt their primary enemy.

Nation-states do not have friends, they have interests.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:40:12 PM EDT
Dennis Miller: "The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq."

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:46:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 5:57:39 PM EDT by raven]
Kolwezi was impressive, but it was carried out by La Legion.

La Legion ETRANGERE.

And the USAF flew them to the region.

The men who pulled off Kolwezi are very scary. France deserves credit for organizing them, training them, giving them guns, and sending them into battle. France doesn't deserve any credit beyond that. It's kind of sad France has to look for foreigners to do this sort of work for them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:56:38 PM EDT
A frenchman walks into a bar, smiles at the landlord and orders a glass of wine. The frenchie looks about and sees a camel sitting at the bar as well.

The frenchie asks the landlord, What is that dirty camel doing in here?

The Landlord pulls a cricket bat out from behind the bar hits the camel in the head and the camel gives the landlord oral pleasure.

The Landlord looks at the frenchie and says "You want a go?" to which the frenchie replies: "Oui, but there is no need to hit me over the head."

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:00:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cahill:
Why do the french always surrender?



Exactly!

And why is mustard yellow?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:15:51 PM EDT
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