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Posted: 10/20/2004 2:13:36 AM EST
I am buying a DSA fal and have their instructions for break-in... but why? what's the point?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:14:17 AM EST
To smooth microscopic accuracy robbing burrs in the barrel.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:15:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:49:58 AM EST
Here's the opinion of one of this country's best shooters and barrel makers, Gale McMillan:

yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

I'll let you read it, but his summary is it's a crock, the sole purpose of which is to wear the barrel out sooner so people have to buy new barrels sooner.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:55:51 AM EST
You don't have to. I never did and on my non-chrome barrel and my dick did not fall off.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:57:53 AM EST
The constant among those who have ALWAYS broken in barrels, and swears by the procedure, is that they have never not done it for a comparison.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:57:54 AM EST
failure to follow the break in instructions could result in premature baldness...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:58:47 AM EST
is it just superstition? I've heard of sports stars that won't change their underwear during the season for good luck...isn't this the same thing?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:07:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 5:39:33 PM EST by AMHsix]
.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:17:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 6:21:05 AM EST by Fenian]
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:18:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:26:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:07:28 AM EST
Beekeeper...in the end, though, you've got no definitive method of saying that this barrel is any more/less accurate than when in left the factory. McMillan's contention is that you're just shortening the life of the barrel, which only has x rounds in it...and that it's as accurate as it's gonna be when it leaves his hands.

Now, McMillan is talking about custom made barrels in the benchrest world. If he's saying that THESE barrels can't be improved upon by a break in procedure, then you can forget doing anything at all to mass produced, non custom barrels to make them any more accurate than they already are. How can running a patch/various solvents endlessly down the bore until some arbitrary magic number is hit--arbitrary in the sense that there must be 20 different break in procedures out there--improve accuracy?

Think about it...by the time you finish the break in procedure, and then start shooting groups for accuracy, you may have already degraded your accuracy by doing it...how would you really know? It's an interesting thing to debate...but I just can't help but think McMillan knew what he was talking about.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:11:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:16:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 7:19:43 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:39:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:47:18 AM EST
Failure to properly follow the break in instructions for your new barrel may result in halitosis, excessive flatulence, blurred vision, and difficulty urinating.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:01:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:03:25 AM EST by Fenian]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


"My experience--"

. . . is just that. I'm not trying to convince anyone, or win any converts to what I do. I'm happy with it. That's all that matters to me. Please do whatever floats your boat.

Edited to add: I only go to the trouble with rifles I expect to shoot little, and care where the bullets land. So far--I have an Oly UltraMatch (UM-1) that is a genuine tack driver, my "deer rifle," my wife's "deer rifle," and our State Arms Rebel (.50 BMG). A Bushy AR-15 to be used for bump firing does NOT get the treatment. Again--do as you please, I'm not trying to convince anyone, merely relating my efforts.



kewl...I'm not trying to be argumentative, just debating the pros and cons. I've done the very painful DPMS procedure on my .308, and so far it shoots like ASS lol. Now I'm gonna take the lazy route and see what happens.

What works good in your OLY barrel? I have a SUM and a regular match, and neither is anything to write home about so far. BTW, I used another break in procedure for those...involving JB bore paste...no tellin HOW bad I screwed up those barrels
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:08:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:10:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:10:38 AM EST by Spade]
If you don't break in your barrel



This puppy will die.

Everytime you don't break in a barrel, God kills a puppy.


[To make this a slightly rational post, I've never done it and I can still hit things with bullets.]
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:19:32 AM EST
I like Remington's version of breaking in your barrel:
Fire, clean, repeat for ten rounds, then you're set.

No ox sacrifices to the accuracy gods or whatever. But even with that, I only got 8 rounds off in 2.5 hours of shooting last time I went, I have to go again to finish the job on my 700P.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:31:07 AM EST
Why you need too.
Ok as a designated gunsmith with a bore scope this is what I have found. When barrels are chambered in the factory the reamer is used over and over. Thus dulling (they all do stretched for as many barrels as possible)). This leads to chatter in the throat of the barrel. You will see this in almost all stock barrels UNLESS THEY ARE LAPPED!
What Gail is talking about is a aftermarket high zoot barrel. Care is taken to ACCURATLY cut the chamber.
So high zoot. Don’t worry it should not need dicking with.
Ok back to the stock barrels. The key is to break it in using the least # of rounds to do it. Copper is pretty soft so it takes some time/ shooting to get a nice smooth throat/bore. Copper also since it is soft likes to cling to the steel. That’s is why shoot one clean shoot one clean. Repeat add nausium. I have found that brass jacketed bullets work really well in burnishing the barrel (brass is harder than copper). In the tests I have done. I have found that I can achieve break in as little as 15-25 Rnds.
When broken in the bore will come clean very quickly. Also the chatter/rough spots on the throat are gone thus improving accuracy.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:35:08 AM EST
If you fail to follow your barrel break in instructions, then you must hate children...

You don't really hate children, DO YOU?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:36:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:26:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
The important thing to remember is most of us are NOT using bench rest barrels. A "worn out/shot out" BR barrel would serve a deer hunter for several lifetimes with "the most acckrit results I done ever seed."



I actually do this quite often. I will keep the "shot out" BR barrels and make the customers (hunters) a hell of a deal. The chamber gets set back and tendon re-threaded. So the part that is eroded is gone. They know what they are getting when they buy it. That and they can brag to there friends that they have a top name barrel.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:29:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:31:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Ok as a designated gunsmith



Imbro?



No I just loved they way he always said that. It was sort of an homage. But that is my title in the shop.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:23:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
The important thing to remember is most of us are NOT using bench rest barrels. A "worn out/shot out" BR barrel would serve a deer hunter for several lifetimes with "the most acckrit results I done ever seed."



I actually do this quite often. I will keep the "shot out" BR barrels and make the customers (hunters) a hell of a deal. The chamber gets set back and tendon re-threaded. So the part that is eroded is gone. They know what they are getting when they buy it. That and they can brag to there friends that they have a top name barrel.



I've got 3 J.R. Hart barrels in 6mmPPC collecting dust...none of them have more than 100 rounds down 'em, according to the guy I got the rifle from. I don't need 'em all, that's for sure. You interested? Only problem is they have what I'm guessing are barrel vise marks on 'em.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 12:56:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Why you need too.
Ok as a designated gunsmith with a bore scope this is what I have found. When barrels are chambered in the factory the reamer is used over and over. Thus dulling (they all do stretched for as many barrels as possible)). This leads to chatter in the throat of the barrel. You will see this in almost all stock barrels UNLESS THEY ARE LAPPED!
What Gail is talking about is a aftermarket high zoot barrel. Care is taken to ACCURATLY cut the chamber.
So high zoot. Don’t worry it should not need dicking with.
Ok back to the stock barrels. The key is to break it in using the least # of rounds to do it. Copper is pretty soft so it takes some time/ shooting to get a nice smooth throat/bore. Copper also since it is soft likes to cling to the steel. That’s is why shoot one clean shoot one clean. Repeat add nausium. I have found that brass jacketed bullets work really well in burnishing the barrel (brass is harder than copper). In the tests I have done. I have found that I can achieve break in as little as 15-25 Rnds.
When broken in the bore will come clean very quickly. Also the chatter/rough spots on the throat are gone thus improving accuracy.



Good post.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 1:58:11 PM EST
My take on it is that people shot thier guns long before the "break in " myth and had absolutely fine results. When I was a kid My dad bought a Winchester 94 in .307. He sighted it in without a break in and that gun would shoot 3 shot groups that you could cover with a dime ALL DAY LONG! I don't really believe in the break in . I do believe in what McMillan has said. Take care.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:05:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fenian:
Here's the opinion of one of this country's best shooters and barrel makers, Gale McMillan:

yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

I'll let you read it, but his summary is it's a crock, the sole purpose of which is to wear the barrel out sooner so people have to buy new barrels sooner.



He was a stock maker, not a barrel maker.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:25:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 4:48:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By QCMGR:

Smoke and mirrors. Why not use tungsten bullets. It would smooth everything right out. I have not seen any statistical evidence that indicates the so-called “break in” process makes any difference.



Actually, I've used custom made brass jacketed bullets to break in my 22-250 as a test. It was broke in in under 25 rounds. The cleaning of the barrel became very easy. It was a stock rifle from a major manufacturer. It usually takes me many more rounds to make cleanup that easy.

"Smoke and Mirrors"? I don't know about that. I do know what I've experienced.

Ugly
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:18:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Smoke and mirrors. Why not use tungsten bullets. It would smooth everything right out. I have not seen any statistical evidence that indicates the so-called “break in” process makes any difference.



Tungsten is too abrasive and hard. But it would make a hell of a smooth bore.

I am in the process of putting data together. I have a few more tests. But when broken in THE BARREL CLEANS QUICKER AND GOES LONGER BEFORE COPPER FOWLING. It MIGHT improve accuracy it might not. But leaning to the little better.

But if you have a big name brand barrel (Heart, Kreiger,Lajh. Etc). That has been chambered by a person (not CNC work station on auto run pumping out a barrel a min) that know what they are doing. With a sharp reamer. DO NOT DICK AROUND BREAKING IT IN. Just shoot it/ clean it and feed it good. The manufacturer usually laps the bore after chambering.

So in summation.. BREAKING IN WILL NOT MAKE A 2 MOA gun a sub MOA gun. But the bore will clean quicker.
This is what I have found...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:34:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:41:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 6:03:15 PM EST by Naked80]
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 5:43:12 PM EST
Like who said?
Crap im confuzed! Too many muzzle breaks today.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 3:39:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By coondog:
My take on it is that people shot thier guns long before the "break in " myth and had absolutely fine results. When I was a kid My dad bought a Winchester 94 in .307. He sighted it in without a break in and that gun would shoot 3 shot groups that you could cover with a dime ALL DAY LONG! I don't really believe in the break in . I do believe in what McMillan has said. Take care.



+1.

I am glad that I when I bought my rifle, I cleaned it and shot it. About four years went by bofore I heard of "break in". I most likely would have fallen for all the hype and done it. As it is my rifle shoots striaight and is as easy to clean as anything else is.

And even though I never broke my barrel in my dick has not fallen off.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 6:42:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 6:45:28 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:49:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Spade:
If you don't break in your barrel

photos.hearye.org/albums/holidays02/dscf0651.thumb.jpg

This puppy will die.

Everytime you don't break in a barrel, God kills a puppy.


[To make this a slightly rational post, I've never done it and I can still hit things with bullets.]



That is just so, NOT RIGHT!
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