Why do I have to break in the barrel

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why do I have to break in the barrel

Posted: 10/20/2004 3:13:36 AM EDT

I am buying a DSA fal and have their instructions for break-in... but why? what's the point?

Posted: 10/20/2004 3:14:17 AM EDT

[#1]

To smooth microscopic accuracy robbing burrs in the barrel.

Posted: 10/20/2004 3:15:27 AM EDT

[#2]

crome lined? add ammo, shoot till you're empty, repeat.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:49:58 AM EDT

[#3]

Here's the opinion of one of this country's best shooters and barrel makers, Gale McMillan:

yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

I'll let you read it, but his summary is it's a crock, the sole purpose of which is to wear the barrel out sooner so people have to buy new barrels sooner.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:55:51 AM EDT

[#4]

You don't have to. I never did and on my non-chrome barrel and my dick did not fall off.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:57:53 AM EDT

[#5]

The constant among those who have ALWAYS broken in barrels, and swears by the procedure, is that they have never not done it for a comparison.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:57:54 AM EDT

[#6]

failure to follow the break in instructions could result in premature baldness...

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:58:47 AM EDT

[#7]

is it just superstition? I've heard of sports stars that won't change their underwear during the season for good luck...isn't this the same thing?

Posted: 10/20/2004 7:07:54 AM EDT

[#8]

.

Posted: 10/20/2004 7:17:44 AM EDT

[#9]

Posted: 10/20/2004 7:18:03 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
failure to follow the break in instructions could result in premature baldness...

Posted: 10/20/2004 7:26:46 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Well, no one here seems to be taking Mr. McMillan's challenge of explaining exactly what breaking in the barrel is actually supposed to be doing mechanically.

My experience--

I follow the instructions put forth in a Dillon's Blue Press about fifteen years ago. Basically, it consists of cleaning the bore initially in such a way as to remove ALL powder and jacket fouling from whatever rounds were fired at the factory. This first time will take some time and effort. Once it is CLEAN, the bore is coated with a LIGHT coat of sewing machine oil. Fire one round. Repeat numerous times, noting it is significantly easier and faster to clean with each cycle. Once the bore is burnished nicely it almost doesn't take on jacket fouling and really minimizes cleaning time. The idea is that a clean bore is an accurate bore. It is important to have quality cleaning rods and jags in order to not damage the bore during cleaning, and always clean from the breech. In my experience it takes about a dozen cycles of cleaning and firing one shot in order to be "done"--most of a "not fun" day.

But it's worth it.

Posted: 10/20/2004 8:07:28 AM EDT

[#12]

Beekeeper...in the end, though, you've got no definitive method of saying that this barrel is any more/less accurate than when in left the factory. McMillan's contention is that you're just shortening the life of the barrel, which only has x rounds in it...and that it's as accurate as it's gonna be when it leaves his hands.

Now, McMillan is talking about custom made barrels in the benchrest world. If he's saying that THESE barrels can't be improved upon by a break in procedure, then you can forget doing anything at all to mass produced, non custom barrels to make them any more accurate than they already are. How can running a patch/various solvents endlessly down the bore until some arbitrary magic number is hit--arbitrary in the sense that there must be 20 different break in procedures out there--improve accuracy?

Think about it...by the time you finish the break in procedure, and then start shooting groups for accuracy, you may have already degraded your accuracy by doing it...how would you really know? It's an interesting thing to debate...but I just can't help but think McMillan knew what he was talking about.

Posted: 10/20/2004 8:11:27 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Here's the opinion of one of this country's best shooters and barrel makers, Gale McMillan:

yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

I'll let you read it, but his summary is it's a crock, the sole purpose of which is to wear the barrel out sooner so people have to buy new barrels sooner.

I was gonna post that.

Not many people knows more about barrels than Gale did. I trust his opinion.

Posted: 10/20/2004 8:16:20 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Beekeeper...in the end, though, you've got no definitive method of saying that this barrel is any more/less accurate than when in left the factory. McMillan's contention is that you're just shortening the life of the barrel, which only has x rounds in it...and that it's as accurate as it's gonna be when it leaves his hands.

Now, McMillan is talking about custom made barrels in the benchrest world. If he's saying that THESE barrels can't be improved upon by a break in procedure, then you can forget doing anything at all to mass produced, non custom barrels to make them any more accurate than they already are. How can running a patch/various solvents endlessly down the bore until some arbitrary magic number is hit--arbitrary in the sense that there must be 20 different break in procedures out there--improve accuracy?

Think about it...by the time you finish the break in procedure, and then start shooting groups for accuracy, you may have already degraded your accuracy by doing it...how would you really know? It's an interesting thing to debate...but I just can't help but think McMillan knew what he was talking about.

"My experience--"

. . . is just that. I'm not trying to convince anyone, or win any converts to what I do. I'm happy with it. That's all that matters to me. Please do whatever floats your boat.

Edited to add: I only go to the trouble with rifles I expect to shoot little, and care where the bullets land. So far--I have an Oly UltraMatch (UM-1) that is a genuine tack driver, my "deer rifle," my wife's "deer rifle," and our State Arms Rebel (.50 BMG). A Bushy AR-15 to be used for bump firing does NOT get the treatment. Again--do as you please, I'm not trying to convince anyone, merely relating my efforts.

Posted: 10/20/2004 8:39:58 AM EDT

[#15]

I learned all about barrel break in from this magazine.

Posted: 10/20/2004 8:47:18 AM EDT

[#16]

Failure to properly follow the break in instructions for your new barrel may result in halitosis, excessive flatulence, blurred vision, and difficulty urinating.

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:01:13 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

"My experience--"

. . . is just that. I'm not trying to convince anyone, or win any converts to what I do. I'm happy with it. That's all that matters to me. Please do whatever floats your boat.

Edited to add: I only go to the trouble with rifles I expect to shoot little, and care where the bullets land. So far--I have an Oly UltraMatch (UM-1) that is a genuine tack driver, my "deer rifle," my wife's "deer rifle," and our State Arms Rebel (.50 BMG). A Bushy AR-15 to be used for bump firing does NOT get the treatment. Again--do as you please, I'm not trying to convince anyone, merely relating my efforts.

kewl...I'm not trying to be argumentative, just debating the pros and cons. I've done the very painful DPMS procedure on my .308, and so far it shoots like ASS lol. Now I'm gonna take the lazy route and see what happens.

What works good in your OLY barrel? I have a SUM and a regular match, and neither is anything to write home about so far. BTW, I used another break in procedure for those...involving JB bore paste...no tellin HOW bad I screwed up those barrels

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:08:17 AM EDT

[#18]

Here's the result of my efforts--

My "deer rifle" (Yugoslavian Mauser w/sporter weight barrel--NOT a "target rifle") shoots groups of 3/4-7/8" groups--three shots @ 100 yards.

My wife's "deer rifle" (Rem. 700 SS sporter weight barrel) shoots very consistent 3/4" groups with my hand loads (same load as my rifle above).

My Oly UltraMatch has shot 1/2" 200 yard groups, though I can't do that consistently (again with handloads).

Our .50 BMG has not been adequate "wrung out" so I can't say.

I will be checking the sight-in of both deer rifles in the next couple of weeks, and I will send the targets to anyone who is interested in seeing them. I am not a bullshitter.

Could they be more accurate? Dunno--don't care. They serve their intended purpose well. They clean up with remarkable ease. I'm happy.

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:10:13 AM EDT

[#19]

If you don't break in your barrel

This puppy will die.

Everytime you don't break in a barrel, God kills a puppy.

[To make this a slightly rational post, I've never done it and I can still hit things with bullets.]

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:19:32 AM EDT

[#20]

I like Remington's version of breaking in your barrel:
Fire, clean, repeat for ten rounds, then you're set.

No ox sacrifices to the accuracy gods or whatever. But even with that, I only got 8 rounds off in 2.5 hours of shooting last time I went, I have to go again to finish the job on my 700P.

Kharn

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:31:07 AM EDT

[#21]

Why you need too.
Ok as a designated gunsmith with a bore scope this is what I have found. When barrels are chambered in the factory the reamer is used over and over. Thus dulling (they all do stretched for as many barrels as possible)). This leads to chatter in the throat of the barrel. You will see this in almost all stock barrels UNLESS THEY ARE LAPPED!
What Gail is talking about is a aftermarket high zoot barrel. Care is taken to ACCURATLY cut the chamber.
So high zoot. Don’t worry it should not need dicking with.
Ok back to the stock barrels. The key is to break it in using the least # of rounds to do it. Copper is pretty soft so it takes some time/ shooting to get a nice smooth throat/bore. Copper also since it is soft likes to cling to the steel. That’s is why shoot one clean shoot one clean. Repeat add nausium. I have found that brass jacketed bullets work really well in burnishing the barrel (brass is harder than copper). In the tests I have done. I have found that I can achieve break in as little as 15-25 Rnds.
When broken in the bore will come clean very quickly. Also the chatter/rough spots on the throat are gone thus improving accuracy.

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:35:08 AM EDT

[#22]

If you fail to follow your barrel break in instructions, then you must hate children...

You don't really hate children, DO YOU?

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:36:18 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Why you need too.
Ok as a designated gunsmith with a bore scope this is what I have found. When barrels are chambered in the factory the reamer is used over and over. Thus dulling (they all do stretched for as many barrels as possible)). This leads to chatter in the throat of the barrel. You will see this in almost all stock barrels UNLESS THEY ARE LAPPED!
What Gail is talking about is a aftermarket high zoot barrel. Care is taken to ACCURATLY cut the chamber.
So high zoot. Don’t worry it should not need dicking with.
Ok back to the stock barrels. The key is to break it in using the least # of rounds to do it. Copper is pretty soft so it takes some time/ shooting to get a nice smooth throat/bore. Copper also since it is soft likes to cling to the steel. That’s is why shoot one clean shoot one clean. Repeat add nausium. I have found that brass jacketed bullets work really well in burnishing the barrel (brass is harder than copper). In the tests I have done. I have found that I can achieve break in as little as 15-25 Rnds.
When broken in the bore will come clean very quickly. Also the chatter/rough spots on the throat are gone thus improving accuracy.

Thank you. The important thing to remember is most of us are NOT using bench rest barrels. A "worn out/shot out" BR barrel would serve a deer hunter for several lifetimes with "the most acckrit results I done ever seed."

I can come here and "brag" about my 3/4" groups from a sporter barrel rifle--wouldn't hold much weight in BR circles (unless it was a match with a STRONG cross wind blowing). Average 3/4"?? Stay on the porch--cuz you ain't runnin' with the big dogs.

Posted: 10/20/2004 10:26:20 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The important thing to remember is most of us are NOT using bench rest barrels. A "worn out/shot out" BR barrel would serve a deer hunter for several lifetimes with "the most acckrit results I done ever seed."

I actually do this quite often. I will keep the "shot out" BR barrels and make the customers (hunters) a hell of a deal. The chamber gets set back and tendon re-threaded. So the part that is eroded is gone. They know what they are getting when they buy it. That and they can brag to there friends that they have a top name barrel.

Posted: 10/20/2004 10:29:00 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Ok as a designated gunsmith

Imbro?

Posted: 10/20/2004 10:31:55 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok as a designated gunsmith

Imbro?

No I just loved they way he always said that. It was sort of an homage.

But that is my title in the shop.

Posted: 10/20/2004 11:23:38 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The important thing to remember is most of us are NOT using bench rest barrels. A "worn out/shot out" BR barrel would serve a deer hunter for several lifetimes with "the most acckrit results I done ever seed."

I actually do this quite often. I will keep the "shot out" BR barrels and make the customers (hunters) a hell of a deal. The chamber gets set back and tendon re-threaded. So the part that is eroded is gone. They know what they are getting when they buy it. That and they can brag to there friends that they have a top name barrel.

I've got 3 J.R. Hart barrels in 6mmPPC collecting dust...none of them have more than 100 rounds down 'em, according to the guy I got the rifle from. I don't need 'em all, that's for sure. You interested? Only problem is they have what I'm guessing are barrel vise marks on 'em.

Posted: 10/20/2004 1:56:32 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Why you need too.
Ok as a designated gunsmith with a bore scope this is what I have found. When barrels are chambered in the factory the reamer is used over and over. Thus dulling (they all do stretched for as many barrels as possible)). This leads to chatter in the throat of the barrel. You will see this in almost all stock barrels UNLESS THEY ARE LAPPED!
What Gail is talking about is a aftermarket high zoot barrel. Care is taken to ACCURATLY cut the chamber.
So high zoot. Don’t worry it should not need dicking with.
Ok back to the stock barrels. The key is to break it in using the least # of rounds to do it. Copper is pretty soft so it takes some time/ shooting to get a nice smooth throat/bore. Copper also since it is soft likes to cling to the steel. That’s is why shoot one clean shoot one clean. Repeat add nausium. I have found that brass jacketed bullets work really well in burnishing the barrel (brass is harder than copper). In the tests I have done. I have found that I can achieve break in as little as 15-25 Rnds.
When broken in the bore will come clean very quickly. Also the chatter/rough spots on the throat are gone thus improving accuracy.

Good post.

Posted: 10/20/2004 2:58:11 PM EDT

[#29]

My take on it is that people shot thier guns long before the "break in " myth and had absolutely fine results. When I was a kid My dad bought a Winchester 94 in .307. He sighted it in without a break in and that gun would shoot 3 shot groups that you could cover with a dime ALL DAY LONG! I don't really believe in the break in . I do believe in what McMillan has said. Take care.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:05:39 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Here's the opinion of one of this country's best shooters and barrel makers, Gale McMillan:

yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

I'll let you read it, but his summary is it's a crock, the sole purpose of which is to wear the barrel out sooner so people have to buy new barrels sooner.

He was a stock maker, not a barrel maker.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:25:32 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Why you need too.
Ok as a designated gunsmith with a bore scope this is what I have found. When barrels are chambered in the factory the reamer is used over and over. Thus dulling (they all do stretched for as many barrels as possible)). This leads to chatter in the throat of the barrel. You will see this in almost all stock barrels UNLESS THEY ARE LAPPED!
What Gail is talking about is a aftermarket high zoot barrel. Care is taken to ACCURATLY cut the chamber.
So high zoot. Don’t worry it should not need dicking with.
Ok back to the stock barrels. The key is to break it in using the least # of rounds to do it. Copper is pretty soft so it takes some time/ shooting to get a nice smooth throat/bore. Copper also since it is soft likes to cling to the steel. That’s is why shoot one clean shoot one clean. Repeat add nausium. I have found that brass jacketed bullets work really well in burnishing the barrel (brass is harder than copper). In the tests I have done. I have found that I can achieve break in as little as 15-25 Rnds.
When broken in the bore will come clean very quickly. Also the chatter/rough spots on the throat are gone thus improving accuracy.

Good post.

Smoke and mirrors. Why not use tungsten bullets. It would smooth everything right out.

I have not seen any statistical evidence that indicates the so-called “break in” process makes any difference.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:48:41 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Smoke and mirrors. Why not use tungsten bullets. It would smooth everything right out. I have not seen any statistical evidence that indicates the so-called “break in” process makes any difference.

Actually, I've used custom made brass jacketed bullets to break in my 22-250 as a test. It was broke in in under 25 rounds. The cleaning of the barrel became very easy. It was a stock rifle from a major manufacturer. It usually takes me many more rounds to make cleanup that easy.

"Smoke and Mirrors"? I don't know about that. I do know what I've experienced.

Ugly

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:18:46 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Smoke and mirrors. Why not use tungsten bullets. It would smooth everything right out. I have not seen any statistical evidence that indicates the so-called “break in” process makes any difference.

Tungsten is too abrasive and hard.

But it would make a hell of a smooth bore.

I am in the process of putting data together. I have a few more tests. But when broken in THE BARREL CLEANS QUICKER AND GOES LONGER BEFORE COPPER FOWLING. It MIGHT improve accuracy it might not. But leaning to the little better.

But if you have a big name brand barrel (Heart, Kreiger,Lajh. Etc). That has been chambered by a person (not CNC work station on auto run pumping out a barrel a min) that know what they are doing. With a sharp reamer. DO NOT DICK AROUND BREAKING IT IN. Just shoot it/ clean it and feed it good. The manufacturer usually laps the bore after chambering.

So in summation.. BREAKING IN WILL NOT MAKE A 2 MOA gun a sub MOA gun. But the bore will clean quicker.
This is what I have found...

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:34:46 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
...Tungsten is too abrasive and hard. But it would make a hell of a smooth bore.

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:41:24 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

I am in the process of putting data together. I have a few more tests. But when broken in THE BARREL CLEANS QUICKER AND GOES LONGER BEFORE COPPER FOWLING. It MIGHT improve accuracy it might not. But leaning to the little better.

But if you have a big name brand barrel (Heart, Kreiger,Lajh. Etc). That has been chambered by a person (not CNC work station on auto run pumping out a barrel a min) that know what they are doing. With a sharp reamer. DO NOT DICK AROUND BREAKING IT IN. Just shoot it/ clean it and feed it good. The manufacturer usually laps the bore after chambering.

So in summation.. BREAKING IN WILL NOT MAKE A 2 MOA gun a sub MOA gun. But the bore will clean quicker.
This is what I have found...

Like he said.

Editted for the muzzle brake impaired.

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:43:12 PM EDT

[#36]

Like who said?
Crap im confuzed! Too many muzzle breaks today.

Posted: 10/21/2004 4:39:25 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
My take on it is that people shot thier guns long before the "break in " myth and had absolutely fine results. When I was a kid My dad bought a Winchester 94 in .307. He sighted it in without a break in and that gun would shoot 3 shot groups that you could cover with a dime ALL DAY LONG! I don't really believe in the break in . I do believe in what McMillan has said. Take care.

+1.

I am glad that I when I bought my rifle, I cleaned it and shot it. About four years went by bofore I heard of "break in". I most likely would have fallen for all the hype and done it. As it is my rifle shoots striaight and is as easy to clean as anything else is.

And even though I never broke my barrel in my dick has not fallen off.

Posted: 10/21/2004 7:42:47 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
My take on it is that people shot thier guns long before the "break in " myth and had absolutely fine results. When I was a kid My dad bought a Winchester 94 in .307. He sighted it in without a break in and that gun would shoot 3 shot groups that you could cover with a dime ALL DAY LONG! I don't really believe in the break in . I do believe in what McMillan has said. Take care.

+1.

I am glad that I when I bought my rifle, I cleaned it and shot it. About four years went by bofore I heard of "break in". I most likely would have fallen for all the hype and done it. As it is my rifle shoots striaight and is as easy to clean as anything else is.

And even though I never broke my barrel in my dick has not fallen off.

No offense, but when you have "cleaned" your bore, I'd bet my left nut it's still very fouled with jacket metal. Powder solvent (Hoppe's 9 or equivilant) will not touch jacket fouling. It degrades accuracy much more than powder fouling. Perhaps not you, but most guys aren't even aware of it, and have never shot a group of less than 2" anyway, so it doesn't matter--but that is NOT what is being discussed here. Consistent groups of sub one inch require a truly clean bore.

Edited to add: To clarify--if you can shoot ten shots from your rifle and cover them ALL with a quarter, then you will know what jacket fouling is about. If you've never done it, then you do not have a "clean" bore, despite having run a Bore Snake or a few solvent-soaked patches down it.

Posted: 10/21/2004 8:49:11 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
If you don't break in your barrel

photos.hearye.org/albums/holidays02/dscf0651.thumb.jpg

This puppy will die.

Everytime you don't break in a barrel, God kills a puppy.

[To make this a slightly rational post, I've never done it and I can still hit things with bullets.]

That is just so, NOT RIGHT!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why do I have to break in the barrel

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