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Posted: 10/6/2004 6:29:06 PM EST
With all the talk of the poor job market here, outsourcing of jobs to Mexico.......one has to wonder - why are the Mexican still coming here?

When will we see Americans swimming the Rio Grande for "all those jobs outsourced to Mexico"?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:35:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 6:35:44 PM EST by JSteensen]
Six words: US prisons compared to mexican prisons
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:37:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
With all the talk of the poor job market here, outsourcing of jobs to Mexico.......one has to wonder - why are the Mexican still coming here?

When will we see Americans swimming the Rio Grande for "all those jobs outsourced to Mexico"?



because they dont get paid jack to do the work down there.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:37:32 PM EST
Welfare is easier.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:37:37 PM EST
the smell?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:40:56 PM EST
......theyre going to Boy's Town in Nuevo Laredo.....quick, cheap and easy.....
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:47:01 PM EST
because they dont have to swim, they can just walk across the bridge
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:59:10 PM EST
Well, I "offshored" myself to Taiwan.

Canadians are coming here in droves. They're everywhere, like rats but larger.

The problem with Mexico and India is that it is almost impossible to work in them legally, and even if you do, you will earn so little that there's no point. Sort of like working in China or Thailand -- you can make enough to "save" about US$1000 per year as an "Engrish teacher". In Taiwan, you can save a realistic amount of money if you actually work and don't blow it on booze, and it is possible to work legally if you want to jump through a few simple hoops; plus, the economy is diversified so other types of work are available. Japan and Korea similarly have decent prospects, but Japan is more expensive to live in, and Korea is a dump.

I looked for work in the U.S. nationwide for two years before I gave up, sold my house, and bailed. It is only going to get worse; despite all the campaign rhetoric from the Bush camp, jobs really aren't being created at the rate that they need to be in order to reduce unemployment. The reason that the "unemployment" numbers are dropping are because of people like myself and 25% of my former neighbors: after being unemployed for (at most) 18 months, you run out of unemployment benefits, and you are no longer counted in the statistic. Of the neighbors around me whom I knew, half were unemployed, and half of those had run out of benefits.

It's not just me. A friend of mine, who is even better qualified than I am, and who didn't lose his job right at the worst point of the downturn, is still unemployed 11 months later.

Me: master's in computer science, 12+ years in the industry.
Him: bachelor's in computer engineering, 14+ years in the industry, but doing much more interesting work.

Every time I hear the campaign rhetoric, or the employers-lobby rhetoric, about "Americans need more education!" I just want to barf.

He had his first and only interview a month ago, and has heard nothing from the company since then (despite calling to ask, and having a friend in the company who is trying to find out for him). His only other employment contact was a rejection letter about a month before that; other than these two items, he's never heard a word from any of the places he has sent resumes to.

I did better than that -- seven contacts in two years, four of whom subsequently called me back to tell me that they had decided not to bother doing the work in the U.S., but instead were offshoring it to India. Of the other three, one was the exact same job at the exact same place that I had done three years earlier; they contacted me as a backup in case they couldn't get approval to bring in an H1-B worker. Instead of bothering to interview me, the manager flew to D.C. and lobbied the INS in person, and got the visa. Boeing, if you're wondering. The second was in hiring mode when I interviewed on Friday; on Monday they didn't call me back, and when I called them on Tuesday I found out that they'd fired 1/3 of their staff on Monday morning, including the HR guy who was supposed to call me. The third was an asshole on a power trip because he had a job to give to some lucky individual; he decided he didn't want that person to be me, and literally gave me a "bum's rush" out the door while laughing.

If you still have a job, congratulations, and good luck keeping it. I keep seeing stories in the media about how things are getting better, but my friends back home keep telling me that they aren't.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:13:26 PM EST
Globalization is Darwinian, I'll get flamed here but the enemies we have now especially in the middle east are jealous of what little we do have, globalization is making nations that do not adapt to hear the flushing sound of a 3rd world toilet. You are right about education, my friends kid just graduated from college and he landed a job at Taco Bell, while looking for another job, he had to to pay off loans....
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:15:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By nchapa:
because they dont have to swim, they can just walk across the bridge



There's no water in the Rio Grande, just walk across the sand...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:20:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By JSteensen:
Six words: US prisons compared to mexican prisons



My understanding is that Mexican prisons are coed, you can have conjungal visits, you might be able to get an Uzi, and if you have money you are probably set.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:22:08 PM EST
Give it a little more time
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:26:31 PM EST
I remember one year when I went to Nachez, WA to spent a season picking apples rather than going on unemployment. You couldn't get the high school grads today to do that. No, the pay wasn't "fair" either.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:31:16 PM EST
The question is really more interesting and revealing than any answer could be.

It's really too bad everything has to be a political weapon, so we always have two contradictory sets of facts about any given subject, both inaccurate.

"Outsourcing" isn't a problem, it's a symptom, of trade imbalances.

Trade imbalances are also a synptom, of poor monetary and fiscal policy.

Poor monetary and fiscal policy is a symptom of democracy once the voters figure out they can raid the treasury, and the politicians on both sides give them whatever they think will buy votes.

This is why we have a constitution, which as written keeps government out of the monetary policymaking business altogether, and dramatically limits its fiscal discretion.

There IS a crisis in the labor market in America. You won't notice it if you live and work in an area that survives on services, which is most of the country, which is precisely the problem.

We're not all going to get rich doing each others laundry and mowing each others lawns.

We need to get back to producing more than we consume if we want to survive as a power in the world, and it's policy that is driving us into a debt and service based economy. 40+% of GDP is financial services, that produce nothing, just transfer debt from one account to another.

It's all funded by debt, debt increased by 28% of GDP in 2003, that can't go on forever.

It was actually just as bad under Clinton, the dotcom boom just hid it. The problem goes all the way back to Nixon, and to Wilson before him.

Tax cuts and low interest rates have very temporary stimulative effect, and when it runs out you're in worse shape than before if you're farther in debt, then you can't raise rates again because the higher debt service costs slow the economy further.

Permanently negative real interest rates seem very unlikely. The fact that such a thing as negative real rates exists at all on an economy-wide basis is an indication of how truly free our markets aren't.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:32:43 PM EST
Because the 'world blizzard' hasn't hit yet?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:33:33 PM EST
there's a reason we are sending those jobs to Mexico
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:20:02 PM EST
cause we couldnt bring our guns with us, nuf said
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:53:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I remember one year when I went to Nachez, WA to spent a season picking apples rather than going on unemployment. You couldn't get the high school grads today to do that. No, the pay wasn't "fair" either.


Try paying a mortgage on that.

FYI, I wasn't looking for "fair" pay -- the Boeing job would have paid me only 54% of what I had been making doing the identical work on the same floor of the same building three years earlier. But I wasn't even allowed to interview; they flew in an Indian guy who is making about 36% of my earlier pay rate -- plus the company doesn't have to pay social security or unemployment insurance on him, since if they throw him out, he'll have to go back to New Delhi.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:08:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
there's a reason we are sending those jobs to Mexico



What?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:12:05 AM EST

I saw a plant move to Mexico, I QCed parts that came from them. After they went there they went from being the best (considered dimensions, finish, and failure rate) to the worst.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:25:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
there's a reason we are sending those jobs to Mexico



What?


So they don't come here.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 12:28:58 AM EST
The only reason to goto Mexico is the Women!
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:36:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:
The reason that the "unemployment" numbers are dropping are because of people like myself and 25% of my former neighbors: after being unemployed for (at most) 18 months, you run out of unemployment benefits, and you are no longer counted in the statistic. Of the neighbors around me whom I knew, half were unemployed, and half of those had run out of benefits.



BS. The unemployment rate published by the government has nothing to do with the amount of people getting unemployment insurance. It's just a liberal lie.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 3:51:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By K2QB3:
The question is really more interesting and revealing than any answer could be.

It's really too bad everything has to be a political weapon, so we always have two contradictory sets of facts about any given subject, both inaccurate.

"Outsourcing" isn't a problem, it's a symptom, of trade imbalances.

Trade imbalances are also a synptom, of poor monetary and fiscal policy.

Poor monetary and fiscal policy is a symptom of democracy once the voters figure out they can raid the treasury, and the politicians on both sides give them whatever they think will buy votes.

This is why we have a constitution, which as written keeps government out of the monetary policymaking business altogether, and dramatically limits its fiscal discretion.

There IS a crisis in the labor market in America. You won't notice it if you live and work in an area that survives on services, which is most of the country, which is precisely the problem.

We're not all going to get rich doing each others laundry and mowing each others lawns.

We need to get back to producing more than we consume if we want to survive as a power in the world, and it's policy that is driving us into a debt and service based economy. 40+% of GDP is financial services, that produce nothing, just transfer debt from one account to another.

It's all funded by debt, debt increased by 28% of GDP in 2003, that can't go on forever.

It was actually just as bad under Clinton, the dotcom boom just hid it. The problem goes all the way back to Nixon, and to Wilson before him.

Tax cuts and low interest rates have very temporary stimulative effect, and when it runs out you're in worse shape than before if you're farther in debt, then you can't raise rates again because the higher debt service costs slow the economy further.

Permanently negative real interest rates seem very unlikely. The fact that such a thing as negative real rates exists at all on an economy-wide basis is an indication of how truly free our markets aren't.




I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 4:08:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By K2QB3:
The question is really more interesting and revealing than any answer could be.

It's really too bad everything has to be a political weapon, so we always have two contradictory sets of facts about any given subject, both inaccurate.

"Outsourcing" isn't a problem, it's a symptom, of trade imbalances.

Trade imbalances are also a synptom, of poor monetary and fiscal policy.

Poor monetary and fiscal policy is a symptom of democracy once the voters figure out they can raid the treasury, and the politicians on both sides give them whatever they think will buy votes.

This is why we have a constitution, which as written keeps government out of the monetary policymaking business altogether, and dramatically limits its fiscal discretion.

There IS a crisis in the labor market in America. You won't notice it if you live and work in an area that survives on services, which is most of the country, which is precisely the problem.

We're not all going to get rich doing each others laundry and mowing each others lawns.

We need to get back to producing more than we consume if we want to survive as a power in the world, and it's policy that is driving us into a debt and service based economy. 40+% of GDP is financial services, that produce nothing, just transfer debt from one account to another.

It's all funded by debt, debt increased by 28% of GDP in 2003, that can't go on forever.

It was actually just as bad under Clinton, the dotcom boom just hid it. The problem goes all the way back to Nixon, and to Wilson before him.

Tax cuts and low interest rates have very temporary stimulative effect, and when it runs out you're in worse shape than before if you're farther in debt, then you can't raise rates again because the higher debt service costs slow the economy further.

Permanently negative real interest rates seem very unlikely. The fact that such a thing as negative real rates exists at all on an economy-wide basis is an indication of how truly free our markets aren't.



Good Post. The solution is re-implementing the Gold Standard, and making Greenspan POTUS.

If everyone would wise up and vote out the statists we could actually make some progress
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:46:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:
The reason that the "unemployment" numbers are dropping are because of people like myself and 25% of my former neighbors: after being unemployed for (at most) 18 months, you run out of unemployment benefits, and you are no longer counted in the statistic. Of the neighbors around me whom I knew, half were unemployed, and half of those had run out of benefits.



BS. The unemployment rate published by the government has nothing to do with the amount of people getting unemployment insurance. It's just a liberal lie.

GunLvr


What's "BS", that half of my neighbors were out of work, or that half of that half weren't counted in Washington's unemployment rate statistics?

Switch on your brain and comprehend that there are several different ways of calculating the rate, including your way (presumably you're thinking of the DoL's "payrolls report") and the way that the statistics the various governments publish are calculated (the "unemployment rate").
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:02:42 AM EST
Uhh...because Mexico sucks?

Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:52:17 AM EST
Cost of living is lower because it is a dump. Individual freedoms are not as highly prized and the government there is very screwed up and corrupt; moreso than ours.

I worked for a "big" tech company in the late 1990s. Everyone was optimistic, happy, and blind. I was given an option in 2001 to take a lay-off with severence or to become a field engineer and work in China. I took the layoff. I did go to China once for my next job but it was a short visit (thank God!)

Listen, its hard to compete when countries like China dump toxic waste down their streets and pollute like mofo's while we are regulated into oblivion. Their construction workers sleep on cardboard at the site sometimes. Do you want to give up your high standard of living to compete with the thrid and second (?) world shitholes the jobs are moving to?

We like stuff, we like to live nicely, we don't dump sewage down our streets. Other countries do and that is why its cheaper to install a tech center there and pay them 1/2 to 1/3 of what we make. Outsourcing is the symptom of an overly controlled economy. Unless we take action we'll all be working in the "service" or retail fields (minus construction) while everything we enjoy is shipped in on a boat.
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