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Posted: 5/12/2004 1:10:28 PM EST

I don't understand it. I completely don't understand it. I really feel for the Berg's and I feel really, really bad for Nick. No one should have to die like that. But why the hell are they blaming the Military and the FBI? The terrorists cut his head off.

Nick went there under his own decision. I tell my kids not to go to stupid places, do not do stupid things and don't hang around stupid people. Nick went to a stupid place to find work, did a stupid thing by staying there and was killed by being around stupid people. And his family are blaming the US?

What the hell is wrong here? I just can't understand it. I am totally flabbergassed. They are totally blaming the wrong people. If anything happened like that to my kid, I would blame myself as well as the terrorists. I would have sat on top of my kid and not let him go there period.

Am I missing something here? Or is there a physcological issue with the Berg's that make them misplace their anger at our government instead of the terrorists that committed this crime?
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:12:11 PM EST
I hadn't heard this. The stupidty and selfishness of the average American baffles me to this day. Tis easier and far more en vogue to blame the US for EVERYTHING. Any sympathy I had for them may be gone...
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:14:30 PM EST
i just heard them blame the FBI for the death of their kid.

dissapointing.

they are the kind of people that blame the gun, car, mcdonalds double with cheese for the death of loved ones.

oh well.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:17:14 PM EST
Maybe you should do some research under google news before saying you can't understand why. They have a valid reason to be angry with the feds.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:17:22 PM EST
I was just explaining to my mom the same thing. Although I am seriously sickened by this event, he went there on his own. I certainly would not want the US to "bargain" for me or try to rescue me. I wouldnt want to be the reason other died.

Rob
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:17:27 PM EST
You can't sue a terrorist. You can sue the US gov't.

That's if it's true.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:18:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 1:30:05 PM EST by raven]
Because Michael Berg is a fucking commie who supports the Stalinist, anti-American organization, International A.N.S.W.E.R. Such a person would naturally blame the United States ahead of the terrorists who actually murdered his son.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts

Find "Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,
West Chester, PA
" on this list posted on Free Republic.

Prometheus Methods Tower Service was owned by Nick Berg, according to the news accounts I've read about the guy.

On 7th March, 2004, just three weeks before the first anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, an 'enemies' list of anti-war groups and individuals was posted on the Free Republic forum.

It began: "Here you are, FReepers. Here is the enemy."

The list had been copied from publicly available endorsements of a call to action for an imminent anniversary antiwar protest on 20th March, 2004. The protest was being organized under the banner of the A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism).

Among those listed as having endorsed the call to action was this entry: "Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc."

That's Nick Berg's father, Michael who acts as business manager for his son in their family radio communications firm, Prometheus Methods Tower Service.

Both father and son cared deeply about Iraq. But they were on opposite sides of opinion on the occupation --though you would never know that from reading the New York Times.

Michael was ardently antiwar, whereas his Bush-supporting son was in favor of the war to the extent that he had already visited Iraq seeking to help with rebuilding efforts.

Just seven days after "Michael Berg" and "Prometheus Methods Tower Service" had come up on that Iraq war 'enemies' list, his son Nick Berg returned to Iraq under the business name of Prometheus Methods Tower Service.


www.breakfornews.com/NickBergEnemiesList.htm
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:29:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:30:01 PM EST
Theirs is a natural response to the violent death of their child. I was of the same mind 7 years ago after the tragic death of my nearly 18-year-old son. Even though his death was entirely of his own making (suicide), I eagerly blamed others. Why?

It is very difficult to accept that the dead are anything but innocent victims. You desperately do not want to blame your own flesh and blood for any part of the tragedy.

If you can, you want your dead child to be seen as some sort of hero, even if it is only by yourself.

You want to blame and punish a force that you see as much more powerful and unfeeling. Since the killers don't have a readily identifiable front, you go by default to some more easily recognizable entity. In this case, the FBI. They fit the bill nicely in that they are well-known, powerful, had contact with the victim, and had the power to forcibly remove him from the danger.

The young man who was murdered appears to have made some bad decisions. Hedecided to go looking for work in Baghdad. He drew too much attention to himself. He was a Jew. He didn't take good advice to leave.

Don't get me wrong. His death is a tragedy for his loved ones. He did not deserve to be murdered. He made some bad decisions.

Respectfully,
Mahatma
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:33:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 1:34:47 PM EST by bolt]

Sometimes I find similarites in both groups Maybe its hard for others to distinguish the diffrences also. Remember WACO?
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:40:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 1:49:31 PM EST by Cincinnatus]
"We named Rumsfeld as the responsible person, and I still hold him responsible," Mr Berg said. "It's the whole Patriot Act. It's the whole feeling of this country that rights don't matter any more because there are terrorists about...."

...so says Nick Berg's father.
Disgusting that a man could be so partisan and filled with hate, that he can't even blame the man who sawed off his son's head and held it aloft.
He blames the Patriot Act?

He's an anti-war activist, and a member of International ANSWER.ORG.
ANSWER believes that the United States is engaged in a Racist War (the "R" in ANSWER) against people of color.
How ironic his son is killed merely because he's a white American.
He fails to see it, though....
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:44:01 PM EST
It's a cronic sickness thats been festering in this world....blame everyone else except those who are responsible.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:46:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:50:45 PM EST
Because the father is an active member of A.N.S.W.E.R....I would hate to think he would use his own son's death for a political cause. Which seems to be the case. I can understand a father's outrage over a death like this...but, to be so entwined with a communist organization, then blame the FBI, the President and not a word about the terrorist...is somewhat strange.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:54:39 PM EST
I'd give the family the benifit of the doubt for a while before I started flinging mud in their direction.

How do you think you would react if one of your kids had just had his head hacked off and the entire world saw it happen?

The dad may be a liberal bunghole, but he's still a grieving father at the moment. Let's see what he has to say in 6 months and judge him by those words.


Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:54:39 PM EST
A colleague of mine said that as tragic as Berg's death is...it was natural selection. If your stupid enough to be in Iraq and not there working for a contract company or the military you've got it coming. BUT we both think those animal bastards need to be dealt with.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 1:55:27 PM EST
the terrorists killed the wrong berg...
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 2:13:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2004 2:13:47 PM EST by Cincinnatus]

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:

How do you think you would react if one of your kids had just had his head hacked off and the entire world saw it happen?



I don't think I'd use it as an opportunity to push the same agenda I was pushing the day before.
I think I'd consider it a bit more important, than to simply harness as it a prop for my cause.

But you are right. Perhaps he's temporarily insane.
Let's wait and see.

(think we'll see him as a keynote speaker at an ANSWER rally soon? Bet you a dollar.)
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:07:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Maybe you should do some research under google news before saying you can't understand why. They have a valid reason to be angry with the feds.


If by 'a valid reason', you mean the US Military's lawful detention of this young man for 13 days, then you are simply as misguided as they are.

To blame anyone other than those who actually did the killing is ludicrous!

And liberal in the extreme!

It certainly isn't a libertarian attitude you have there!

Eric The(PlacingBlameWhereBlameShouldBePlaced)Hun



Please show me where I made ANY statements alluding to what you claim.

Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:44:57 PM EST
His son is a martyr for his cause, disgusting.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:46:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
Because Michael Berg is a fucking commie who supports the Stalinist, anti-American organization, International A.N.S.W.E.R. Such a person would naturally blame the United States ahead of the terrorists who actually murdered his son.,snip.



I'd wondered what Dad's political beliefs were. Thanks for the information.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:46:45 PM EST
Does anybody have a link to this story in the media? I have not heard that the family was blaming the U.S. goverment.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:50:24 PM EST
The guys father is a nut job, I bet the nut did not fall too far from the tree in this case also.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:53:00 PM EST
Imbroglio, please identify the "valid reason" for Berg's parents' anger at the feds.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:53:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Maybe you should do some research under google news before saying you can't understand why. They have a valid reason to be angry with the feds.


If by 'a valid reason', you mean the US Military's lawful detention of this young man for 13 days, then you are simply as misguided as they are.

To blame anyone other than those who actually did the killing is ludicrous!

And liberal in the extreme!

It certainly isn't a libertarian attitude you have there!

Eric The(PlacingBlameWhereBlameShouldBePlaced)Hun



My understanding, plundering bastard, is that the US did not actually detain him. He was detained by Iraqi police. US personel did meet with him and talk to him, but he was never in their custody.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:56:48 PM EST

I am currently deployed to Mosul with one of the Field Artillery batteries-turned-Military Police companies, and have often asked myself the same questions.

This is the second story of this sort that I have had personal involvement with (the first being the 4 missionaries who were killed back in March), and I still can't figure out why unarmed US citizens feel the need to wander through decidedly unfriendly territory.

I can give some personal observations about the story you referenced above:

However, Senor said Iraqi police arrested Berg in Mosul on March 24 because local authorities believed he may have been involved in "suspicious activities."

Fact. Mr. Berg was never detained by Coalition forces - he was detained by Iraqi police when the taxi he was riding in was stopped at a checkpoint and he refused to produce identification.

"U.S. authorities were notified," he said.

Fact. The MP liaison team at Mosul police headquarters talked to Mr. Berg within minutes of his being brought in, this was passed on to higher headquarters immediately.

"The FBI visited Mr. Berg on three occasions and determined that he was not involved with any criminal or terrorist activity."

Fact. They also recommended that he leave the country, as stated in the story.

In Mosul, however, police told the AP they had no knowledge of the Berg case. Police official Safwan Talal said the only American arrested there in recent months was a woman who was released soon afterward.

Half-truth. The Iraqi police may not know anything about the Berg "case" per se - he was never arrested and prosecuted in an Iraqi court, but they definitely know that he was held in one of their police stations for two weeks. The "American" woman was in fact Swiss, and detained for the same reason - "suspicious activities." She was released after a background check was made.

Since Iraq remains under U.S. military occupation, it seems unlikely that the Iraqi police would have held Berg, or any other American, for such a length of time without at least the tacit approval of U.S. authorities.

Fact. The Iraqi police were directed to hold Mr. Berg until the FBI was able to get a team to Mosul to question him.

Kimmitt said U.S. forces kept tabs on Berg during his confinement to make sure he was being fed and properly treated because "he was an American citizen."

Fact. He was checked 3-4 times daily by MPs from my unit (who also brought him his meals, bottled water, reading, and writing material).

What happened to him after his release is open to speculation, that is where my involvement in this story ends. Whatever the true reason he was in Iraq, he did not deserve what ultimately happened to him.



Thread on Tank Net
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 3:58:00 PM EST
Maybe he was reacting to nothing but true emotions for his son and didn't have the time to sit down and try to figure out why his son was dead. Regardles of who or what is at fault here, that family has suffered a terrible loss, a loss that will take a very long time to recover from, if they do recover from it at all. I can only hope I don't have to experience their loss, as I have a 38 year old son that I love very much. My prayers go up for them.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 4:05:07 PM EST
their contention is that he would have left before the date he got captured if he hadn't been in US custody
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 4:10:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By sharky30:
their contention is that he would have left before the date he got captured if he hadn't been in US custody



If they hadn't filed suit with the US Court he would still be in jail OR have been shipped out of the country. Either way he would still be alive.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 4:28:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
Theirs is a natural response to the violent death of their child. I was of the same mind 7 years ago after the tragic death of my nearly 18-year-old son. Even though his death was entirely of his own making (suicide), I eagerly blamed others. Why?

Respectfully,
Mahatma



Very sorry for your loss. I am sure you have been thru hell and back.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 5:55:20 PM EST
His politics aside,I think the fathers reaction has a lot to do with frustration and guilt.

Frustration that his son put himself in position to be murdered by acting extremely foolish,reckless and naive.

For a person to go wondering around Iraq,alone,looking for work...is really almost beyond my comrehension.If there is a place or circumstance with a higher possibility of a tragic outcome,I'm having a hard time imagining it.

I'm sure he's feeling guilty because he did not do what it took to keep his son from making what is a near insane decision and going through with it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 6:02:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
Theirs is a natural response to the violent death of their child. I was of the same mind 7 years ago after the tragic death of my nearly 18-year-old son. Even though his death was entirely of his own making (suicide), I eagerly blamed others. Why?

Respectfully,
Mahatma



Mahatma, I too am very, very sorry for your loss.

I still sit here and want to cry over Nick's death. It is a sad day when humans, no I won't even give them that stature, subhumans, have to go this low to press a point for their "religion" or idiology. I did not know Nick was jewish. After hearing that, if the terrorists knew this fact, I bet there would have been no way to save his life. His faith would have been enough for them to want to kill him. I just wish people like Nick would use their brain before going to places like Iraq. Sad, very sad.
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