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Posted: 9/22/2004 4:31:53 AM EST
Does it seem like the Republican party totaly dis regards one of the largest potential voting blocks in the nation? That voting block would be the MTV generation, the same generation that is being hit hard by left leaning entertainers, and MTV and BET ans such to get them out and registered to vote and to vote. Ya got P-Diddy with his citizen change group targeting the minority youth and the hip-hop culture, ya got all the rock the vote shit as well, were talking about 40million possible voters here, but I don't see the republican party trying to do shit to get these votes, to connect with this group.

If there is a large turnout amongst this groups at the polls this election we could end up bitching Nov 3rd because sKerry has won the election. I know personaly a lot of young people in this group they do watch whats going on they do talk about it. But the only info they are getting is the BS thats being fed to them by MTV and BET and the networks. Write them off if you want as a non factor in this election, but you'd be foolish to. I know 6 people who are between 18-21 who went out and registered to vote this year for one reason, to vote for sKerry because they bought all the BS that was spoon fed to them by the media. Sice than I've turned 4 of them over to the GW camp by just taking the time to talk to them and give them places to go and see the truth about sKerry. But think about that 6 people who registered to vote so they could vote for sKerry simply because of what they see and hear on MTV/BET and network TV. Of the 6 of them all 6 voted in the recent primaries here in Wisconsin, so it's not like they said hey I'm going to go do this and than didn't.

Right now the Milwaukee radio stations that are geared tword the hip-hop/R&B/rap crowd are full of anti-bush adds gerared tword the youth and I'll tell you what they make bush and the republican party look like ass and a lot of young people are falling for it.

So what can the republican party do to connect with this potentialy large block of voters? If you don't think it's worth it trying to connect with this block of potential voters why don't you think it's worth it?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:33:30 AM EST
Because at the core, the Republican Party is an exclusionary social club with an aristocracy as a governing heirarchy.

If they don't already know you, they generally don't want to know you.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:34:16 AM EST
First off, only about 19 % of the population under 30 votes.

Second of all, look around. Todays younger generation IS growing up more conservative. Look at all the young college pukes we got here!

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:34:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Because at the core, the Republican Party is an exclusionary social club with an aristocracy as a governing heirarchy.

If they don't already know you, they generally don't want to know you.



Thats a problem if I ever saw one.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:35:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Because at the core, the Republican Party is an exclusionary social club with an aristocracy as a governing heirarchy.

If they don't already know you, they generally don't want to know you.




Oh please! I just hear a report yesterday about how the Republican party has actually come to repressent the middle america...similar to the Democratic Party of old......


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:37:00 AM EST
I took an informal poll the other day of my college students, mostly either sophomores or seniors. Out of 34-35, only 6 said they were registered to vote. Tracks almost exactly with sgtar15's 19%.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:39:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
First off, only about 19 % of the population under 30 votes.

Second of all, look around. Todays younger generation IS growing up more conservative. Look at all the young college pukes we got here!

Sgatr15



Not a representative sample of the group in question though.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:43:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
I took an informal poll the other day of my college students, mostly either sophomores or seniors. Out of 34-35, only 6 said they were registered to vote. Tracks almost exactly with sgtar15's 19%.



Registered to vote don't mean squat right now as at least here you can register and vote on the day of the election. I registered in highschool at a vote registration drive. So did the 6 youngins I talked about.

Again a lot of these kids in this demo are not going to be found in college classes. Not representaqtive of the group.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:48:28 AM EST
What group are you talking about?

The 18-21 year olds?

They vote even less often than those just leaving college. Low percentage of return on the Republicans campain dollars to be honest. That and the parents still have a larger influence on the kids then anyone else.


And yes, you are still a kid.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:48:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 4:48:52 AM EST by Airwolf]
Given the fact that the media is left biased and Hollyweird is even more so and the schools these kids attend lean EVEN FURTHER LEFT, how do you propose to reach this block of potential voters that are virtually spoonfed lies on a daily basis from the "news" and shows they see on networks, the horseshit from MTV and the like, the propaganda pushed in films and the DAILY indoctrination from gooberment run schools?

While I agree that it's desirable, not only for elections but for the future of this nation for these kids to have access to a more balanced view of things, but I just can't see how you can deal with kids whose heads are filled with MUSH and have had almost no contact with the real world.

Sorry for being such a pessimist.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:50:51 AM EST
I was channel surfing last night and stopped on MTV. They were running an ad that stated

" If you vote for GW you are voting for a new draft "

WTF

The wife looks at me and says " Why is Dubby bring back the draft ? "

The Republicans need to counter that ad.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:51:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Because at the core, the Republican Party is an exclusionary social club with an aristocracy as a governing heirarchy.

If they don't already know you, they generally don't want to know you.



Which is why you are (or at least claim to be) a Republican party official in Ohio.



Dude - newsflash -

You HATE the Republican Party. Its WELL documented in this forum.

Either you just enjoy being a part of something you hate, or you are schizophrenic.

Either way, seek help.



Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:52:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
First off, only about 19 % of the population under 30 votes.




Bingo.

Car companies don't target sight impaired people with their advertising.

Politicans don't target non-voters.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:53:39 AM EST
Not to intercede here, but just what do young people have to look forward to? They either don't care, or they know they are going to be left holding the bag for all the profligate spending. Why play in a game you can never hope to win at?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:56:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
I was channel surfing last night and stopped on MTV. They were running an ad that stated

" If you vote for GW you are voting for a new draft "

WTF

The wife looks at me and says " Why is Dubby bring back the draft ? "

The Republicans need to counter that ad.



How about by pointing out that all the draft bills in Congress (which have no chance of passing anyway) were drafted and sponsored by Democrats like John Conyers, Charlie Rangel, and Jim McDermott, precisely to scare people into voting against Bush and sabotaging the war on terrorism? Democrats are among the lowest, sleaziest forms of life on Earth.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:00:25 AM EST
Young people are also being brainwashed by the public school system. You know something is wrong when they show re-runs of West Wing in government class....
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:02:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:
Registered to vote don't mean squat right now as at least here you can register and vote on the day of the election. I registered in highschool at a vote registration drive. So did the 6 youngins I talked about.

Au contraire, mon frere! This particular demographic was the core of the Howard Dean movement. One of the key reasons he failed in his early bid was that most of those who supported him (college-age) didn't bother to register to vote in the primaries.


Again a lot of these kids in this demo are not going to be found in college classes. Not representaqtive of the group.
Huh? Are you singling out the urban hip-hop youth as a particular demographic? If so, then I might think you're onto something. However, the core of their sentiment is rebellion against the establishment. Of course, they rebel by imitating their idols, who, near as I can tell, are an establishment of their own. Kind of like expressing one's individuality by conforming to the norm.

Anyway, I would agree that there is an untapped market for voters. The left has been far more shrewd (read: disingenuous) in their approach to these potential voters, generally through veiled threats of impending doom, and empty promises of false hope.

By in large, at present this demographic is not statistically significant. When that group chooses to involve itself in the political process, we can surely expect that as many will find the truth of the right as will swallow the bunk of the left.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:02:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:09:58 AM EST

Of course, they rebel by imitating their idols, who, near as I can tell, are an establishment of their own. Kind of like expressing one's individuality by conforming to the norm.


You're right. It's a matter of establishing a new, countercultural, norm to which they conform.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:11:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
What group are you talking about?

The 18-21 year olds?

They vote even less often than those just leaving college. Low percentage of return on the Republicans campain dollars to be honest. That and the parents still have a larger influence on the kids then anyone else.


And yes, you are still a kid.


SGatr15



extend it to 23-24 and yer on about right. But more than that I'm not talking about getting to all the people in that age group I'm talking about getting to those that are more of the hip-hop/rap R&B would more typicly support dems people in that group. When I was in that age group I voted in every election, but I'm more active in politics and such and always have been, though I didn't get really active till I started owning guns(that was my real political kick in the ass/eye opener). I don't think I'm explaining it right and I'm not sure I really can Sarge.

Airwolf, I have no Idea really. I just talk to the people I know that fall in that group. There have been lots of time when while hanging out or just running into people where weve talked about whats going on in Iraq, or things being said in the campagins. I've had a couple people ask me whats up with the draft coming back and saying they don't want to get drafted. It's a PITA trying to convince them that no yer not going to get drafted, cuz the draft ain't coming back. Back when MTV ran that program with sKerry I was at a friends house and there were about 10 of us there I was the oldest one, and I was the one countering damn near everything sKerry had to say, and thank God I cold back up what I said with websites, news articals and other such stuff. I really don't know what could be done to connect with this group. But if there is one thing that program did it was get them talking about everything thats been happening and while thats good there was only one site represented on that show.
So yah I don't know what could be done......
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:20:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 5:24:28 AM EST by photoman]

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By photoman:
Registered to vote don't mean squat right now as at least here you can register and vote on the day of the election. I registered in highschool at a vote registration drive. So did the 6 youngins I talked about.

Au contraire, mon frere! This particular demographic was the core of the Howard Dean movement. One of the key reasons he failed in his early bid was that most of those who supported him (college-age) didn't bother to register to vote in the primaries.


Again a lot of these kids in this demo are not going to be found in college classes. Not representaqtive of the group.
Huh? Are you singling out the urban hip-hop youth as a particular demographic? If so, then I might think you're onto something. However, the core of their sentiment is rebellion against the establishment. Of course, they rebel by imitating their idols, who, near as I can tell, are an establishment of their own. Kind of like expressing one's individuality by conforming to the norm.

Anyway, I would agree that there is an untapped market for voters. The left has been far more shrewd (read: disingenuous) in their approach to these potential voters, generally through veiled threats of impending doom, and empty promises of false hope.

By in large, at present this demographic is not statistically significant. When that group chooses to involve itself in the political process, we can surely expect that as many will find the truth of the right as will swallow the bunk of the left. thats just it right now there is more and more of a push to get them involved in the process and more and more are starting to get involved in the process


Thats exactly it. Thats who MTV and BET and VH1(to a lesser extent) are targeting with their rock the vote and whatever BETs version is, and shit thats exactly who Pdiddy's Citizen Change group is working on to gtet them out to vote. Thats a potentially large group of voters as I said, something like 40million. Hell Diddy is going to be on TRL on MTV every Tuesday to promote the organisation and getting out to vote. Yesterday was all about what you need to register to vote where to pick up the forms and shit like that. My cousin was just telling me that something like 40% of her senior class that is of voting age registered to vote at a recent voter registration event, and they have another one comming up. 40% of the voting age students so far and I'd say at least a quarter to a half of those will fall into that urban/hi-hop youth catagory. When I graduated from the same school there were 435 kids in my class, that number is higher now asthere are about 500 more students total at the school, so her senior class is about as big if not bigger than mine was.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:24:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
First off, only about 19 % of the population under 30 votes.

Second of all, look around. Todays younger generation IS growing up more conservative. Look at all the young college pukes we got here!

Sgatr15



Yay! I'm in the "elite" I think that while most youngin's don't vote, those who have grown up to appreciate this country and all that it provides, will eventually see it in them. I was one of those that didn't vote, didn't care, but when I really opened my eyes to what is happening around me, I shaped up, and hit the ballots. Now, I'm more conservative leaning than a lot of people, and a lot of my college (read: liberal as hell) friends are like: WTF? Not only do they have absolutely no clue about how it all works, but they all think the world is a happy fluffy place...



Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Au contraire, mon frere! This particular demographic was the core of the Howard Dean movement. One of the key reasons he failed in his early bid was that most of those who supported him (college-age) didn't bother to register to vote in the primaries.



What? What about me? I voted for him in the primaries (fully knowing that he will not win) cause I missed his on-TV self destructions. Ahh, what we youngin's do to amuse ourselves...
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:36:25 AM EST
There was an article in time magazine a few weeks ago about the increasing number of "right wing" student groups on college campuses. It was pretty interesting.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:37:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Look at all the young college pukes we got here!

Sgatr15


Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:39:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
Not to intercede here, but just what do young people have to look forward to? They either don't care, or they know they are going to be left holding the bag for all the profligate spending. Why play in a game you can never hope to win at?




When you met the first single young kid that does not think like this at their age, and later change their mind around 35, you let me know.


Every generation has always felt they live in the worst of times and that the whole wide world needs changing.


Think Bulldozer+blond protestor.....



Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:39:28 AM EST
You REALLY want the future of the country in the hands of the MTV generation?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:41:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
They don't vote.




Neither do Penguins...because they don't have the thumbs to hold the hole punch.


Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:50:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:

I don't think I'm explaining it right and I'm not sure I really can Sarge.

......I just talk to the people I know that fall in that group. There have been lots of time when while hanging out or just running into people where weve talked about whats going on in Iraq, or things being said in the campagins. I've had a couple people ask me whats up with the draft coming back and saying they don't want to get drafted. It's a PITA trying to convince them that no yer not going to get drafted, cuz the draft ain't coming back. ......




Listen to me.


You are obviously upset.


Now ask yourself this. Why are you upset?

Think about that....


You tell me that you are upset because you have friends in the "Hip-Hop" scene (is that anything like Disco btw?) that are talking to you about politics. You are upset because they are coming to you and that they disagree with you. And you are upset because you feel this part of your demographic is being ignored.



Is that about right?



Well....is it?


Okay then............. I got bad news for you son. Your frustration/anger is misplaced. As a matter of fact, there is no reason for you to be frustrated/upset at all!!



And I will tell you why. Your friends and demographic are talking about politics because they are coming to you. Thats a HUGE start! Plus, for some odd reason they value your opinion which is why they talk to you about it in the first place.


So you now have a responsibility son. Welcome this chatter. Talk to them and try to convince them. They are open to the idea otherwise it would not be brought up.


Yes I know this gets frustrating at times because some people are idiots.


But you can do it.


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:03:00 AM EST
I think the republicans in general do less pandering, (I for one like it that way) they stand for what they stand for and that’s it, Dumascraps like to divide people up in to little special groups then and then pander to them, Dems actually perpetuate the separation of various groups buy promoting entitlements for specific groups, they actually have the opposite effect the are (in theory) trying to achieve.


The dumascraps are so dangerous to this country it is scary.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:23:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Because at the core, the Republican Party is an exclusionary social club with an aristocracy as a governing heirarchy.

If they don't already know you, they generally don't want to know you.



Which is why you are (or at least claim to be) a Republican party official in Ohio.



Dude - newsflash -

You HATE the Republican Party. Its WELL documented in this forum.

Either you just enjoy being a part of something you hate, or you are schizophrenic.

Either way, seek help.






Yes I do hate what the party has become. A lot of people have worked into positions of influence to change the party from within -- with the express intent of returning it closer to the party of Reagan and Roosevelt.

Unlike the Private Country Club or the Moose Lodge, the party is an open organization which can literally be taken over.

When you have absolute power, it tends to warp minds. Some of us are working diligently to change that.

I know how the party works with great detail from the inside. At the local and state level, it's a fucking scandalous wreck -- only because people have been shut-out while the old-boys have run rampant. It's not even about party politics anymore. It's about who get's what contract because you're in bed with who.

Here's a recent article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer regarding the Republican Party in the State of Ohio....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Republican Leader Investigated Re Fraud

Feds target Ohio speaker's campaign
Saturday, May 22, 2004
Sandy Theis and Ted Wendling
Plain Dealer Bureau

Columbus - A federal grand jury has issued subpoenas to some of House Speaker Larry Householder's top campaign vendors in an investigation of his campaign practices.

Subpoenas have been issued to Householder's campaign committee, former Ohio Republican Party Executive Director Tom Whatman and at least two vendors who work for the Ohio House Republican Campaign Committee, sources said.

The vendors are Sam Van Voorhis, owner of Majority Strategies, a Columbus firm that does political mailings for House Republicans; and Steve Weaver, owner of WiredVoter, a Columbus firm that creates and maintains campaign Web sites for Householder and other House Republicans.

Householder did not return calls to his cell phone and his office, and his spokesman, Dwight Crum, said only, "I don't know what you're talking about" when asked about the subpoena given to Citizens for Householder.

Crum said he would inquire, but then did not return repeated phone calls.

Whatman and Van Voorhis would not comment.

Weaver could not be reached for comment.

The FBI and IRS began the investigation after receiving an anonymous memo in March.

The memo accused the House GOP Campaign Committee of overpaying Majority Strategies, Wired- Voter and another vendor, then having those vendors make secret payments to Householder and his top advisers.

Householder oversees the campaign committee.

Householder has denied the charges, saying the memo was filled with "nothing but rumors, innuendo, half-truths and outright lies."

He took the unusual step of inviting the vendors to defend themselves during a private meeting of House Republicans on March 9.

The vendors also have denied the charges, with some threatening to sue the memo's author - should they learn the author's identity.

Whatman, now a political consultant, is not mentioned in the anonymous memo.

He was subpoenaed as the custodian of records for Informed Citizens of Ohio, a 2002 campaign committee that is mentioned.

Informed Citizens raised and spent money from undisclosed contributors to promote the election of Republican justices to the Ohio Supreme Court.

The memo asserts that Informed Citizens overpaid a vendor to produce and air campaign commercials, and that the vendor funneled some of the overpayments to Householder.

Whatman helped to oversee Informed Citizens. Householder helped raised money for it.

Householder and his top political aides have retained criminal defense lawyers, and the mushrooming scandal has some House Republicans questioning whether one of the aides, consultant Brett Buerck, should remain on the campaign payroll.

The Ohio House Republican Campaign Committee is paying Buerck, Householder's former chief of staff, $10,000 a month to supervise the campaigns of Republican House members.

Following Plain Dealer disclosures that Buerck helped write memos that disparage fellow Republicans, one GOP House member called on the caucus to fire Buerck immediately.

"I know the people I've talked to think that's the appropriate course," said Rep. Sally Conway Kilbane of Rocky River.

"I don't know whether it's going to happen, but if it doesn't happen I think we're nuts. I think the speaker should have distanced himself from this guy long ago."

Buerck could not be reached to comment.

Kilbane's comments followed Plain Dealer reports that Buerck helped write two reports critical of some of his fellow Republicans.

In one instance, Buerck, Householder fund-raiser Kyle Sisk and Householder spokesman Dwight Crum helped draft a 109-page plan to destroy the political career of Republican Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, while simultaneously promoting Householder's 2006 campaign for state auditor.

The plan was not implemented.

After excerpts of it became public, top Republicans - including Householder - chastised the authors and said he had rejected the proposal.

In a second instance, Buerck and GOP consultant Mark Weaver helped the Ohio Academy of Trial Lawyers draw up a strategy chart designed to assist in the defeat of a personal-injury lawsuit reform bill in the House.

The chart includes unflattering remarks about fellow Republicans, placing them in categories such as "Senate wannabes," "party boys" and members of the "broad squad."

The revelation that Buerck is working for the trial lawyers, who oppose jury award caps, while also working for a caucus that has campaigned for them, didn't sit well with some Republicans - or Democrats.

"There appears to be some conflicts of interest," said Rep. Linda Reidelbach, a Columbus Republican.

"It's very clear to me that this is a problem."

Sen. Bob Hagan, a Youngstown Democrat, asked the legislative watchdog to look into Buerck's contract with the trial lawyers for "possible violations of Ohio Ethics Laws."

Hagan made the request in a letter dated Friday to Legislative Inspector General Jim Rogers.

-------------------------------------------------------


I have a WHOLE BUNCH OF THESE.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:38:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By photoman:

I don't think I'm explaining it right and I'm not sure I really can Sarge.

......I just talk to the people I know that fall in that group. There have been lots of time when while hanging out or just running into people where weve talked about whats going on in Iraq, or things being said in the campagins. I've had a couple people ask me whats up with the draft coming back and saying they don't want to get drafted. It's a PITA trying to convince them that no yer not going to get drafted, cuz the draft ain't coming back. ......




Listen to me.


You are obviously upset. not in the least


Now ask yourself this. Why are you upset? I'm not

Think about that....


You tell me that you are upset because you have friends in the "Hip-Hop" scene (is that anything like Disco btw?) that are talking to you about politics. You are upset because they are coming to you and that they disagree with you. And you are upset because you feel this part of your demographic is being ignored. it's not my demo



Is that about right? not even close


Well....is it?
nope

Okay then............. I got bad news for you son. Your frustration/anger is misplaced. As a matter of fact, there is no reason for you to be frustrated/upset at all!!



And I will tell you why. Your friends and demographic are talking about politics because they are coming to you. Thats a HUGE start! Plus, for some odd reason they value your opinion which is why they talk to you about it in the first place.


So you now have a responsibility son. Welcome this chatter. Talk to them and try to convince them. They are open to the idea otherwise it would not be brought up.


Yes I know this gets frustrating at times because some people are idiots.


But you can do it.


Sgatr15



As to the other stuff, I'm glad they are starting to question things, I'm glad they are going to get and in some cases have gotten involved by voting. I'm just trying to figure out why the republican party is willing to let the dems get away with slamming bush and the repubs in these communities and in particular to this particular demo and not do anything to counter it. It seems strange especialy since most of these people in this demo are in croups other demos that are typicly strong as far as suport for dems. Once this demo get mobilised and starts to vote on a greater basis they will be worth going after to get thier vote, so why wait and give the dems all this time to get a stronger base with this demo? Thats what I'm wondering.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:41:41 AM EST
Activism from the GOP perspective means attending a $5000 a plate fundraising dinner.

That's why Gen-X isn't a target.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:47:10 AM EST
Because they realize that there are enough votes found with their "base".
This allows them to focus their message, thus not alienating their base.

If every, single person who is considered to be part of the rebublicans' "base" voted, it would be a landslide victory of historic proportions..
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