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Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:23:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Do any of you guys shoot? Do you pay any attention to any kind of instruction?
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Sadly, the answer to those questions for many here is not an affirming one.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:29:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2017 7:30:19 AM EDT by MadMonkey]
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Originally Posted By JCIN:
Edit: If you want to see what training videos looked like before Haley/Costa/Magpul go and google Lenny Magill
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It's bad when someone like Costa is WAY less cheesy than Magill

TBH, I learned a lot from the Magpul videos including many tips I still use. My philosophy is that I can learn something from even the worst instructor, even if it's "don't do it that way". I've picked up HUGE benefits from the most unlikely places because of the one thing they got right.

Costa & Haley did us a great service and the videos still mostly hold up. They seem like good guys, especially Haley. Hope he doesn't disappoint me like PatMac
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:37:12 AM EDT
If you are interested in tightening up that costa clamp of yours, you can for a small fee get the training you are looking for:

http://costaludus.com/index.php?route=training/category&path=59
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:07:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AKengineer:


He doesn't endanger students or do dumb shit like Voda or Tactical Response. The country is full of NRA basic pistol "instructors" and half assed LE "trainers" that are joke. People that seek that level of basic training usually don't know enough to avoid them.
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Where I live, I can go to a local private range and shoot with actual combat 11B and Marine veterans, not posers  -- for free. Sadly, they do not have fanboys or action figures.

I just don't get it.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:09:01 AM EDT
I wish the search function could find all the old archived threads in the Magpul forum when the first Magpul Dynamics video came out.  Sweet Jesus it was a.full on knob slobbing by members here.  I'm surprised Costa and Haley don't have permanent damage to their junk because of all the jock riders.

If those threads can be brought back from the depths it would be very entertaining to say the least.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:23:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
I am always surprised people still ask similar questions.

After all this time and people on this website and in this "community" don't know who:

Travis Haley
Chris Costa
Pat McNamara
Paul Howe

are...

I bet I can throw out,

Mike Lamb
Kyle Lamb (No relation)
Jeff Gonzales
Pat Rogers
Clint Smith
Jeff Cooper
John Plaster
Chris Sajnog
Todd Hodnett

and you fuckers probably don't know half if any of these guys.

This is a firearms website.

Do any of you guys shoot? Do you pay any attention to any kind of instruction?
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A good number of people on this forum do not own firearms. Of those that do, I'd bet a large chunk, barely shoot static at a fudd range a few times a year.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:25:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ltlabner:
Sadly, the answer to those questions for many here is not an affirming one.
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Originally Posted By Ltlabner:
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Do any of you guys shoot? Do you pay any attention to any kind of instruction?
Sadly, the answer to those questions for many here is not an affirming one.
Don't be sad! Maybe being the high speed, super equipped operator that you are you'll get lucky someday and blunder into the real gun fight of your dreams.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:42:23 AM EDT
I would take a class with Costa, if I could afford it, which I can't most likely
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:58:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By voodochild:
I wish the search function could find all the old archived threads in the Magpul forum when the first Magpul Dynamics video came out.  Sweet Jesus it was a.full on knob slobbing by members here.  I'm surprised Costa and Haley don't have permanent damage to their junk because of all the jock riders.

If those threads can be brought back from the depths it would be very entertaining to say the least.
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I remember one guy from WA that had the cookie monster in his avatar that if Costa asked him for a BJ he would have wept with joy.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 8:58:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 2StampBob:
Around that time when we all worried FBHO was going to ban everything, a real fear for some of us was not getting our ordered TOBR in time. LaRue ended up shipping us our lowers to get them on the books then we could send them back to him when he was able to build the rifles. It was a worrisome time.

I was looking to buy another rifle like a Noveske or KAC but no one had anything available I even tried DD and all could find was an upper.

Around that time I just so happened to be on the LaRue website when a batch of the costa rifles became available and impulse bought one because of a ban fear. I didn't know who costa was.

I never shoot the thing and am hoping his reputation doesn't drop the resale value too much
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Why did I just read all that? Ain't nobody got time fo tha!
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 10:02:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2017 10:07:39 AM EDT by x5060]
Honestly I think most of the people who are down on Costa either weren't around or don't remember the "Before times." We are truly spoiled compared to back then.

1. Cheap ARs were $1,100-$1,200 (same price as a CRATE of skss) and only had a fixed stock, a carry handle, a fake pinned A2 birdcage and the worst pistol grip known to man. The plethora of aftermarket parts we have now barely even existed. (I still remember the first time I saw magpuls first product.)

2. Simple AR parts were EXPENSIVE. I remember having to purchase my first BCG for $290 and that was a DEAL at the time. $40-50 for standard capacity magazines. A complete lower parts kit was $120 for a cheap one.

3. Training was a joke. Especially the videos. Magpul revolutionized this aspect by having a decent production staff, good trainers, and good fundamentals. No other videos had any two of those, let alone all 3.

4. SKSs still practically ruled the world.

The only thing that I miss from then was cheaper MGs and ammo.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 10:52:59 AM EDT
The real heroes of this story were the HD camcorders, the cameraman, and the video editors.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 4:09:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 4:56:10 PM EDT
I like the old MD team and think there is some good educational value in the training videos.  

Most people don't have access to real world tactical training and the videos are a decent substitute.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 6:01:18 PM EDT
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Balista is just mad cause he only got a 15 on the ASVAB.  Us Coasties at least had a choice!
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 6:03:48 PM EDT
Costa never Nd'd on camera. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 6:22:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By patchouli:
Costa never Nd'd on camera. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
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A good indication you haven't done much shooting is getting all wrung out over someone putting one accidentally into the berm. It happens and you learn.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 6:48:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By patchouli:
Costa never Nd'd on camera. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
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He did get pulled over by the Police though.


Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:02:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mister_H:
He did get pulled over by the Police though.


https://s23.postimg.org/mulklrmgb/ludass.jpg
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Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
Costa never Nd'd on camera. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
He did get pulled over by the Police though.


https://s23.postimg.org/mulklrmgb/ludass.jpg
fucking admins
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:04:16 PM EDT
You guys better make sure you check out the lesser-known, but equally amazing title: Art of The Dynamic Breakfast:

Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:23:50 PM EDT
His abnormally long arms put him at the top of the list for quality firearms instructors.

I wouldn't train with anyone who has average length arms. I have standards.


Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:29:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Middlelength:


A good indication you haven't done much shooting is getting all wrung out over someone putting one accidentally into the berm. It happens and you learn.
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Lol.

I bet you're so hard corpse you practice nds
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 7:42:54 PM EDT
A lot of people hate on the guy, but he helped  get a lot of people into firearms.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 10:23:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By x5060:
Honestly I think most of the people who are down on Costa either weren't around or don't remember the "Before times." We are truly spoiled compared to back then.

1. Cheap ARs were $1,100-$1,200 (same price as a CRATE of skss) and only had a fixed stock, a carry handle, a fake pinned A2 birdcage and the worst pistol grip known to man. The plethora of aftermarket parts we have now barely even existed. (I still remember the first time I saw magpuls first product.)

2. Simple AR parts were EXPENSIVE. I remember having to purchase my first BCG for $290 and that was a DEAL at the time. $40-50 for standard capacity magazines. A complete lower parts kit was $120 for a cheap one.

3. Training was a joke. Especially the videos. Magpul revolutionized this aspect by having a decent production staff, good trainers, and good fundamentals. No other videos had any two of those, let alone all 3.

4. SKSs still practically ruled the world.

The only thing that I miss from then was cheaper MGs and ammo.
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+1000

I always hate being that "old guy"
Same with the Jeff Cooper and old time gunwriter  threads going 

People do not realize how good they have it especially the twentysomethings 

The gun world now every single micro niche has heavy manufacturer support and insane varity at very reasonable prices 

A gun shop in the 80s MIGHT have had an AR but that only happened about 10% of the time 

If they were really high speed there might be a Norinco AK or a HK91

Fast forward to the early 90s 
A flat top AR  HOLY SHIT might as well have been a UFO
Then a short while later you have a free float varmint rifle again insanely rare and exotic shit and cost $2k 
Took another 5-10 years for that to became common and even at that point we're still high dollar stuff .


Stuff that was insanely exotic even in 2004 gets massive Meh here 
And non AR stuff was extremely rare as well.

There is some massive lack of perspective due to abundance  nowadays in the gun world .
It is weird how the gun culture has both a long and short memory.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 10:38:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mister_Donut:
A lot of people hate on the guy, but he helped  get a lot of people into firearms.
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People with T-rex arms are always going to hate the rest of us with above average length arms.

They're jelly.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 10:44:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ret_Puddle_Pirate:
Balista is just mad cause he only got a 15 on the ASVAB.  Us Coasties at least had a choice!
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LOL.
Link Posted: 7/4/2017 11:03:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By patchouli:
Costa never Nd'd on camera. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
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Neither did TH till someone released the video
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 2:25:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By patchouli:
Lol.

I bet you're so hard corpse you practice nds
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Originally Posted By patchouli:
Originally Posted By Middlelength:


A good indication you haven't done much shooting is getting all wrung out over someone putting one accidentally into the berm. It happens and you learn.
Lol.

I bet you're so hard corpse you practice nds
I don't remember seeing a berm either.

Certain NDs during stressful handling might be one thing but lighting one off while filming because you didn't clear the weapon you are handling for the camera was a colossal fuckup that could have ended very very badly.
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 2:56:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2017 2:56:57 AM EDT by Blacktide]
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:


I don't remember seeing a berm either.

Certain NDs during stressful handling might be one thing but lighting one off while filming because you didn't clear the weapon you are handling for the camera was a colossal fuckup that could have ended very very badly.
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The gun was pointed down range.  Multiple berms.  In other shots you can see it and targets set up in that direction.  I have shot at many multi-directional ranges.  Still embarrassing for Travis but I'm not going to dismiss his entire body of experience because of that one mistake.
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 3:22:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
+1000

I always hate being that "old guy"
Same with the Jeff Cooper and old time gunwriter  threads going 

People do not realize how good they have it especially the twentysomethings 

The gun world now every single micro niche has heavy manufacturer support and insane varity at very reasonable prices 

A gun shop in the 80s MIGHT have had an AR but that only happened about 10% of the time 

If they were really high speed there might be a Norinco AK or a HK91

Fast forward to the early 90s 
A flat top AR  HOLY SHIT might as well have been a UFO
Then a short while later you have a free float varmint rifle again insanely rare and exotic shit and cost $2k 
Took another 5-10 years for that to became common and even at that point we're still high dollar stuff .


Stuff that was insanely exotic even in 2004 gets massive Meh here 
And non AR stuff was extremely rare as well.

There is some massive lack of perspective due to abundance  nowadays in the gun world .
It is weird how the gun culture has both a long and short memory.
View Quote
This sums things up pretty well. The younger guys on here should be grateful for living in the times they are as there has never before been such a great period of time for the AR world.  In a lot of ways it reminds me of the highpoint of the C&R world back in the mid to late 90s when C&R guns/ammo were both cheap and plentiful.  

Flashback for me.  In the 80's a friends Dad did have a couple of SP1's but I don't ever recall seeing any in the gunshops when I went to visit. Later, in the early 90's when I was looking for a semi auto rifle, I don't really seeing any AR's, so I ended up with a Poly Tech Legend.  Of course there was a lot of ban hysteria around during that period, so lots of things were scarce and expensive.  Mid 90's I finally did manage to pick up a Colt HBAR, that and other postban guns were easy to get, but anything other than that was just insanely expensive right up to the period of time after the AWB expired.

As for Chris Costa/other training goes, again the younger guys on here should be thankful that all these guys (even Pat Mac) exist and offer classes open to the public.  This wasn't the case when I was in my 20's, maybe during my 30's they were but during that time I couldn't afford it.
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 1:18:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2017 1:18:32 PM EDT by Mopseydocks6014]
He made a boring subject interesting.  It brought in a ton of new people to the community.


Just like Happy Gilmore.  They had record breaking ratings and attendance after he joined the PGA Tour.  The Fudds didn't like the kind of clientele but in the end, it was good for the sport.
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 3:34:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Middlelength:
A good indication you haven't done much shooting is getting all wrung out over someone putting one accidentally into the berm. It happens and you learn.
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Originally Posted By Middlelength:
Originally Posted By patchouli:
Costa never Nd'd on camera. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
A good indication you haven't done much shooting is getting all wrung out over someone putting one accidentally into the berm. It happens and you learn.
I've done a lot of shooting, some of it under stressful situations.  I've never ND'd into a berm, or on camera, or anywhere else.  Clearly, YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 2:11:54 AM EDT
I never thought of it as an ND.

He was in controlled conditions and showing a dangerous technique. He had an unintentional discharge when his finger slipped.  No rules were violated, no mistakes were made, and the rifle was pointed in a safe direction. It was a surprise discharge so he got gassed in the face by an AK muzzlebrake which made it look worse.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 2:26:37 AM EDT
My brother and I met him in the height of his popularity and he was a genuinely nice guy.  We asked him questions and he answered them and shot the shit with us for a bit.  He also has a sense of humor about himself.



One of the original threads
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 2:41:03 AM EDT
Unapologetic Costa fan here.  He's good people.

Costa is a great guy and a very effective teacher.  He genuinely seems to care about everyone in his class actually learning something.  He has a great self-deprecating sense of humor and is a lot of fun to be around.  Positive attitude and a cool dude to hang out with.

Haley is cool to be around too, but Haley's personality is much more serious and analytical.

Two completely different personalities and teaching styles, but both excellent at what they do.

I'm extremely grateful to both of them for what they did for us regular guys with their Magpul series of videos.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 9:53:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mopseydocks6014:
He made a boring subject interesting.  It brought in a ton of new people to the community.


Just like Happy Gilmore.  They had record breaking ratings and attendance after he joined the PGA Tour.  The Fudds didn't like the kind of clientele but in the end, it was good for the sport.
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Chris Costa took training to a new level spiritually.

Him and his long ass arms are at one with his soul.

When he shoots, it's like watching Mozart tongue kiss Leonardo da Vinci.



Link Posted: 7/6/2017 9:54:56 AM EDT
So am I not allowed to like Travis Haley or does that make me gay?
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 12:11:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
I never thought of it as an ND.

He was in controlled conditions and showing a dangerous technique. He had an unintentional discharge when his finger slipped.  No rules were violated, no mistakes were made, and the rifle was pointed in a safe direction. It was a surprise discharge so he got gassed in the face by an AK muzzlebrake which made it look worse.
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The gun went off unintentionally. That's called a negligent discharge.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 2:35:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2017 2:36:37 PM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
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Originally Posted By RePp:
The gun went off unintentionally. That's called a negligent discharge.
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Originally Posted By RePp:
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
I never thought of it as an ND.

He was in controlled conditions and showing a dangerous technique. He had an unintentional discharge when his finger slipped.  No rules were violated, no mistakes were made, and the rifle was pointed in a safe direction. It was a surprise discharge so he got gassed in the face by an AK muzzlebrake which made it look worse.
The gun went off unintentionally. That's called a negligent discharge.
Exactly. Wasn't even wearing his ears.

For those that haven't seen it
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 3:33:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RePp:
It's a entertainment industry. He entertains and let's guys live out their tier 1 fantasies. Sure he has plenty of good things to teach but that's not what most guys are there for. It's for selfies and to feel high speed. If I wasn't poor, fat and low speed I would go to a costa class then flood my social media with that shit.
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lol.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 7:14:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RePp:


The gun went off unintentionally. That's called a negligent discharge.
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No.

Unintentional Discharge is an umbrella term used in the firearms community that covers all types of discharges, including cook offs and mechanical failures. 

Since he was intentionally displaying a dangerous method that could result in the rifle unintentionally firing, and he was on a hot range, he probably gets an accidental discharge, not a negligent. An accidental discharge was a possibility with this technique and he knew that going in. He was just surprised when it happened since he was attempting to be extra careful to prevent it.

Negligent discharge requires a different set of circumstances.

Maybe we need a new term such as Controlled Training Unintentional Discharge to highlight the difference.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 7:45:41 PM EDT
Intentional Discharge Induced by Overt Training

You could refer to it by its initials for short.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:02:11 PM EDT
Hunting Pandas With Chris Costa
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:07:27 PM EDT



Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:15:23 PM EDT
Chris Costa? Never heard of her..
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:16:11 PM EDT
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I like mem wars! 

Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:16:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spl1nter_c311:
Has anyone ever done any physical properties of his ape arm technique, and if it actually does anything better than any other way of holding it?
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Travis Haley uses it and he has done a lot of HSLD stuff. a lot.


If you try it you will see faster sight picture movement.

I have heard that maybe it's just good for three and not for shooting faces but YMMV I am throughly a sucky amateur.


He gets so much hate for how popular he is/was.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:18:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2017 10:19:04 PM EDT by BillyDoubleU]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:

No.

Unintentional Discharge is an umbrella term used in the firearms community that covers all types of discharges, including cook offs and mechanical failures. 

Since he was intentionally displaying a dangerous method that could result in the rifle unintentionally firing, and he was on a hot range, he probably gets an accidental discharge, not a negligent. An accidental discharge was a possibility with this technique and he knew that going in. He was just surprised when it happened since he was attempting to be extra careful to prevent it.

Negligent discharge requires a different set of circumstances.

Maybe we need a new term such as Controlled Training Unintentional Discharge to highlight the difference.
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Sure he was following the rules.

Good.

It's was still an ND.

He should have been demonstrating with an empty and cleared gun.

It was an ND.

And no.

A cook off is a cook off, a hang fire is a hang fire etc.

An ND is an ND.

Sorry to burst your bubble. He owned up to it in a round about way without out ever saying it was a negligent discharge. But hey. Better than the Pat Mac  debacle.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 8:20:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By saigamanTX:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COc_L-3c1eo
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Link Posted: 7/6/2017 9:06:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By INV136:


So he revolutionized the stance used to aim an AR15, while simultaneously burning your support hand from holding too close to the flashhider, and squatting in an uncomfortable position while wearing cowboy boots?
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Honestly those guys are probably right about that position.

Comfort has little to do with it. he is supported kneeling but he is able to stand very quickly.
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