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Posted: 10/11/2004 9:50:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:51:55 AM EST by Mak762]
Army Infantry osut is 14-16 weeks (including the 1-2 weeks in reception which is the worst part)

Marine boot is 12 weeks I believe, not to be a sexist but woman make it through marine boot. i didn't see one woman (or anything close) at benning.

I knew a Marine DI and he said they are both really F****ed up places to be as a E1.


Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:51:41 AM EST
no women in the infantry
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:54:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 9:59:33 AM EST by srschick]
Women Marines have their own separate boot camp at Parris Island.
When I went in, Marines (male) also went through a 4 week MCT (Marine Combat Training) after boot camp. It really was an extention of boot camp, after you graduated and had a week of leave.

As I google, OSUT is only for those going for an infantry title? All other specailties go to just regular Army boot camp?

Marine boot camp is for EVERY Marine, from grunt to admin pencil pusher to helo mechanic.
As I was in (90-97) ALL male Marines also had to attend MCT, then went to their specialty school.
Infantry was yet another school (SOI) after all of this.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:55:13 AM EST
I Was at benning, and it was tough.
That said, marine boot is generally considered tougher.
The DI was right, however. Neither is a place you want to be.
Benning is a sick kinda hot, though.
I was at Basic, Airborne, and Ranger school all in July(different years).
Fuck me
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:00:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I Was at benning, and it was tough.
That said, marine boot is generally considered tougher.
The DI was right, however. Neither is a place you want to be.
Benning is a sick kinda hot, though.
I was at Basic, Airborne, and Ranger school all in July(different years).
Fuck me



as far as weather Ft Benning has got to be alot worse, has anyone here ever lived in San Diego?? its paradise, not very hot in the summer and not cold in the winter. Perfect for training in.

Benning was always hot and humid then sometimes raining then sometimes really cold
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:04:48 AM EST
Why do you want to know?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:11:31 AM EST
I have never done Army OSUT at all (but reserve MP training was a joke, so much so that I asked the evaluators from the MP school to not certify the course)

Having attended MCRD San Diego in 1987, I remember it as quite hard and that was before the crucible thing or the follow-on four week school of infantry course for all MOSes.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:12:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Why do you want to know?



I am friends with some Marines, I get these stories about how much tougher Marine Boot was than my sissy girl scout camp in the Army was. Most of the stuff sounds about the same.

I was just hoping with all the experience on this board someone could say "yes boot is harder" or "no they are about the same" or "Benning is tougher"
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:16:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:22:49 AM EST by quijanos]
I went thru Basic Training (USMC) at MCRD San Diego/Pendleton in 88'.
It was mentally and physically demanding. Both (mental/physical) got to you before it was all over.
Don't think I know anyone who didn't eventually breakdown sooner or later. We only graduated 76% of our platoon. It was 13-14 weeks total if I remember correctly.

Mak762, Women are are held to different standards. Its not the same, so your not exactly being sexist....


And with that being said Marines and Army are held to different standards. For instance:
I believe that the PFT qualification for Army is 1.5 or 2 miles while the Marine Corps is 3 miles. I can tell you that after completing basics I could run (3) six minute miles and still have gas in the tank....it was tough but I'm unable to compare it to Army Infantry as I've never done it.
I do have the highest respect for them....
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:17:49 AM EST
Who the hell would have gone to BOTH? Not even an Arfcommer would be that nuts.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:21:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:25:47 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
When you're in Parris Island, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. No phone calls, no days off, no time to relax. EVERYTHING by the numbers.

THAT'S the difference.
In boot camp, every second is controlled.
Every action is drilled, it's a ritual.
From making a head call, to filling the canteens...

The whole platoon in unison, repeating the same thing, doing the same thing. Any screw ups, or sloppiness...


...to the pit.

This goes on ALL day long, everyday, until you graduate.

Does the Army do this?

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:23:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By srschick:
Women Marines have their own separate boot camp at Parris Island.
When I went in, Marines (male) also went through a 4 week MCT (Marine Combat Training) after boot camp. It really was an extention of boot camp, after you graduated and had a week of leave.

As I google, OSUT is only for those going for an infantry title? All other specailties go to just regular Army boot camp?

Marine boot camp is for EVERY Marine, from grunt to admin pencil pusher to helo mechanic.
As I was in (90-97) ALL male Marines also had to attend MCT, then went to their specialty school.
Infantry was yet another school (SOI) after all of this.



OSUT is for certain Army MOSes, mostly Combat Arms,

Armor OSUT is at Ft Knox, Infantry at Benning, etc...

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:23:52 AM EST
I went to Paris Island for boot camp and have been to San Diego. The training is the same but Paris Island is alot more humid and the fuckin bugs will drive you nuts.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:25:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:26:16 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By quijanos:
I went thru Basic Training (USMC) at MCRD San Diego/Pendleton in 88'.
It was mentally and physically demanding. Both (mental/physical) got to you before it was all over.
Don't think I know anyone who didn't eventually breakdown sooner or later. We only graduated 76% of our platoon. It was 13-14 weeks total if I remember correctly.

Mak762, Women are are held to different standards. Its not the same, so your not exactly being sexist....


And with that being said Marines and Army are held to different standards. For instance:
I believe that the PFT qualification for Army is 1.5 or 2 miles while the Marine Corps is 3 miles. I can tell you that after completing basics I could run (3) six minute miles and still have gas in the tank....it was tough but I'm unable to compare it to Army Infantry as I've never done it.
I do have the highest respect for them....



APFT is 2 miles in 16.34min, 42 pushups, 50 situps...
Those #s are for a 21-26yo, so the numbers for kids out of HS are a tad bit harder...

IIRC the Marines make you do situps, pullups and a 3mi run...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:26:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Who the hell would have gone to BOTH? Not even an Arfcommer would be that nuts.



When I went through MCRD San Diego in '84, we had one prior service Army in the my Series. Don't know what possesed him. He was a Staff Sergeant with the 101st before he became another Delta Co., 1st Bat, RTR Recruit. His asshole was sucking buttermilk just like the rest of us...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:28:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:29:24 AM EST by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Who the hell would have gone to BOTH? Not even an Arfcommer would be that nuts.



Actually I had a roomdog in Germany who went in the Army, then the Marines, then back to the Army and into the Infantry, where we met. He said that Diego was no worse than Benning. And before you Marines talk shit on him, he had a GIGANTIC purple scar (and the award to go with it) from Beirut.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:29:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
I went thru Basic Training (USMC) at MCRD San Diego/Pendleton in 88'.
It was mentally and physically demanding. Both (mental/physical) got to you before it was all over.
Don't think I know anyone who didn't eventually breakdown sooner or later. We only graduated 76% of our platoon. It was 13-14 weeks total if I remember correctly.

Mak762, Women are are held to different standards. Its not the same, so your not exactly being sexist....


And with that being said Marines and Army are held to different standards. For instance:
I believe that the PFT qualification for Army is 1.5 or 2 miles while the Marine Corps is 3 miles. I can tell you that after completing basics I could run (3) six minute miles and still have gas in the tank....it was tough but I'm unable to compare it to Army Infantry as I've never done it.
I do have the highest respect for them....



APFT is 2 miles in 16.34min, 42 pushups, 50 situps...
Those #s are for a 21-26yo, so the numbers for kids out of HS are a tad bit harder...

IIRC the Marines make you do situps, pullups and a 3mi run...



Yes you are VERY correct, Sit-Ups , Pull-Ups and THEN the 3 mile run. I always loved running three miles after wearing my ass out at full speed for 2 minutes on Sit-Ups and then 20 plus pull ups......something about that event every year you never forget.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:31:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
When you're in Parris Island, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. No phone calls, no days off, no time to relax. EVERYTHING by the numbers.

THAT'S the difference.
In boot camp, every second is controlled.
Every action is drilled, it's a ritual.
From making a head call, to filling the canteens...

The whole platoon in unison, repeating the same thing, doing the same thing. Any screw ups, or sloppiness...


...to the pit.

This goes on ALL day long, everyday, until you graduate.

Does the Army do this?




Pretty much. At least they did at Benning School for Boys when I went through in '88.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:31:42 AM EST
I have taken both the APFT and the Marine PFT, I normally do around 250-265 on the USMC PFT, I did a 298 on the APFT. Because we took theirs', several army officers in my FACCC class took the USMC PFT along with the 4 Marines in the class. Although 3 of 8 scored 300 plus on the extended scale the previous week, none of them got a 300 on the USMC PFT.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:33:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:45:55 AM EST by Mak762]

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
When you're in Parris Island, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. No phone calls, no days off, no time to relax. EVERYTHING by the numbers.

THAT'S the difference.
In boot camp, every second is controlled.
Every action is drilled, it's a ritual.
From making a head call, to filling the canteens...

The whole platoon in unison, repeating the same thing, doing the same thing. Any screw ups, or sloppiness...


...to the pit.

This goes on ALL day long, everyday, until you graduate.

Does the Army do this?




For the first 8 weeks your are basically under "total control" after that you get more freetime you might have a hour to square away your gear, shit,shave,shower organize your wall locker.

As far as phone calls I got to one about a week after I arrived and then I remember around week 6 after we qualified we got to use the phones.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:34:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:
For the first 8 weeks your are basically under "total control" after that you get more freetime you might have a hour to square away your gear, shit,shave,shower organize your wall locker.

As far as phone calls I got to all about a week after I arrived and then I remember around week 6 after we qualified we got to use the phones.



That is good to know, that wasn't how it was at the FA school.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:34:50 AM EST
Coast Guard
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:36:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:37:47 AM EST by quijanos]

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
When you're in Parris Island, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. No phone calls, no days off, no time to relax. EVERYTHING by the numbers.......From making a head call, to filling the canteens...............The whole platoon in unison, repeating the same thing, doing the same thing. Any screw ups, or sloppiness...

...to the pit.

This goes on ALL day long, everyday, until you graduate.





Man does that sum things up. We got bent 3 seconds before walking out of the squad bay for the last time.....on graduation day.........in Dress Alpha's those MF'rs fired our asses up till the last second.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:36:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By Mak762:
For the first 8 weeks your are basically under "total control" after that you get more freetime you might have a hour to square away your gear, shit,shave,shower organize your wall locker.

As far as phone calls I got to all about a week after I arrived and then I remember around week 6 after we qualified we got to use the phones.



That is good to know, that wasn't how it was at the FA school.



Infantry OSUT is a COMPLETELY different animal than any other Army basic.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:40:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:40:35 AM EST by Adam_White]
I've only known one guy whose done both - sorta.

He was a former 0311 who went 11B in the guard - so he attended just the last portion of OSUT.

He said that Marine Boot was much more structured, but admitted that from what he saw of the guys in the first phases that there were more similarities - but he felt that overall that the Army was definitely easier (of course, being more senior and understanding the mind games better would make anyones second time through even the same training "easier."

Throughout Army IET the "total control" aspect alluded to by Cincinnatus usually only lasts the first few weeks - unless the students really piss somebody off. The Marines stick with it the entire training cycle - and invest more heavily in NCOs at the training bases to do so.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:48:48 AM EST
I had two MOSs in the Army one of which I did One Station Unit Training (OSUT) and the other just an AIT School. (Both Combat Arms) OSUT is far tougher than just boot camp. For one thing the drill sgts ride you almost at the same level of motivated anger and dislike from begining to end. In the (just) AIT it was at least 1/2 to 3/4 throttle in comparison.

We did have a couple soldiers join us for the AIT section of OSUT training and they both did not make it through. They stressed out and asked to leave. (Where in one case the recruit was put on a desk in the middle of the barracks and had to ask the whole platton for permission to leave) what a mind game.

Anyhow to your Marine question. I was also in the Navy ROTC and have had many Marine friends. My impression of Marine Boot is just as tough as the toughest the Army training maybe. Though the for some MOSs (Non Combat Arms) in the Army and different Forts my impression is the Army training can waiver in severity.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:52:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By Mak762:
For the first 8 weeks your are basically under "total control" after that you get more freetime you might have a hour to square away your gear, shit,shave,shower organize your wall locker.

As far as phone calls I got to all about a week after I arrived and then I remember around week 6 after we qualified we got to use the phones.



That is good to know, that wasn't how it was at the FA school.



From the stories I've heard from a friend who commanded a training company at Ft. Sill, FA OSUT is even slacker than my basic was at Ft. Jackson! Of ocurse, I went through before the co-ed thing kicked in, so it may have all gotten stupid.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:09:53 AM EST
The Marines.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:13:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 11:16:13 AM EST by mark75101]
I liked the "total control" portion in army basic. I mean yea, it sucked ass but as long as you did as you were told you couldn't fvck up. Once they give you a little rope is when you hang your self. They had red, white and blue phase, I don't remember the order but after the total control phase(I think red)was up the smoke really seamed to roll It get very hot at the Sand Hilton in august.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:30:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By mark75101:
I liked the "total control" portion in army basic. I mean yea, it sucked ass but as long as you did as you were told you couldn't fvck up. Once they give you a little rope is when you hang your self. They had red, white and blue phase, I don't remember the order but after the total control phase(I think red)was up the smoke really seamed to roll It get very hot at the Sand Hilton in august.



yeah no shit, just a little freedom is enough to get the whole company in trouble!

You know its bad when the drill sgt comes in on their fucking day off to smoke your balls!

We had 5 NCO's over my platoon so we were always being watched and we couldnt get away with anything.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 9:59:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
I went through before the co-ed thing kicked in, so it may have all gotten stupid.



I heard its a joke and there is alot of screwing going on.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:16:56 AM EST
I'll let you guys know how OSUT is in 19 weeks. I leave in 2 days on Thursday for just that.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:18:21 AM EST
The Old Corps...

Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:18:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 12:11:37 PM EST by Thunderbolt]
some Marines say Navy boot camp was tougher than USMC boot camp?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:23:38 AM EST
i have no doubt OSUT is tough. its a shame the army guys have to qualify their service with "but i was 11b so it was harder than ft relaxin" it should be the same for everyone. i have a copy of Army Times i bought at the PX and tacked up here in my office. it says "every soldier a rifleman" and it has an article about how the new cheif of staff is embracing this radical military philosophy...NO SHIT, welcome to the Marine Corps.
i think EVERY soldier should attend an OSUT type combat oriented basic training. i went to bootcamp, THEN the school of infantry for a combined total of something like 22 weeks of combat oriented training. if the army moved in that direction that whole convoy ambush situation with jessica lynch would have been a non-issue. i have been on army convoys and Marine convoys in hot areas. the army convoy takes fire and its "HOLY SHIT WE'RE TAKING FIRE, STEP ON IT" when the Marine convoy took fire it was " WE'RE TAKING FIRE, STOP THE TRUCKS, EVERBODY OUT"


its a cultural difference thats all.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:25:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
When you're in Parris Island, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. No phone calls, no days off, no time to relax. EVERYTHING by the numbers.

THAT'S the difference.
In boot camp, every second is controlled.
Every action is drilled, it's a ritual.
From making a head call, to filling the canteens...

The whole platoon in unison, repeating the same thing, doing the same thing. Any screw ups, or sloppiness...
...to the pit.

This goes on ALL day long, everyday, until you graduate.

Does the Army do this?


My comments exactly. in '87 at MCRD San Diego we got NOTHING. The only live outside contact was the Sunday afternoon before Graduation, and a Series Chief Drill Instructor that let us make 1 call home on Christmas from the rifle range. Then I went to Arty school at Ft Sill, OK. The Marine FDC students barracks were right next to the Army Arty recruit barracks. We got up, did our PT, cleaned up, held morning formation and went off to chow BEFORE those mofos even got up. And their PT of low-impact aerobics to a boom box was PATHETIC. Then there was the first time some of us went to the base bowling alley and there were a bunch of army shave-heads there, we asked them, 'on base liberty, about to graduate?' and were told 'nope, we just started'. These assholes had base liberty EVERY WEEKEND throughout RECRUIT training. Totally Unsat.

And for the Marine intraservice squabble about which boot camp is tougher - I always thought the mental aspect of the austere training environment at MCRD SD was made even tougher by the fact it is right smack dab in the middle of town - you are SURROUNDED by Freedom and people going about their lives. The San Diego airport runway right next to the PT area, the sight of downtown San Diego's buildings / towers clearly visible across the water while walking guard duty around the base warehouses. Same for the rifle range. The 405 fwy, main coastal highway between san diego and L.A. - just a couple hundred yards from the range facilities & barracks.
It's all right there, just over a single chainlink fence, and you can have NONE of it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:28:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
I went through before the co-ed thing kicked in, so it may have all gotten stupid.


I heard its a joke and there is alot of screwing going on.


When I was at Sill for AIT, we had one chick in the company who was permanent CQ. She had been
caught messing around with one of the cadre, and was awaiting UCMJ. She was still there when I
graduated and left.

BTW, barracks were co-ed!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:36:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 10:37:00 AM EST by TeuffelHunden1775]
I freakin' hated running along that damn chain linked fence! Watching those planes come in and out.

I don't know how the Army decides who goes where, for how long, etc, etc. However, USMC - Boot camp - 13 weeks with not one micro second of time off. School of Infantry Marine Combat training - 4 weeks, School of Infantry Advanced Infantry Training 6 weeks.

So, to be a Marine grunt we're talking 23 weeks of intense training. How long is it to become an Army grunt?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:48:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By TeuffelHunden1775:
I freakin' hated running along that damn chain linked fence! Watching those planes come in and out.



That WAS the worst part.

MCRD San Diego, March-June '83
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:54:14 AM EST
MCRD SD 3 Oct. 89 - 29 Dec. 89

That and humpin' under the freakin' freeway at Camp P.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:57:06 AM EST
<---about to leave to OSUT at Ft. Sill (Artillery)
I'll bring my impressions back to the board with me for sure ;)
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:33:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:
Army Infantry osut is 14-16 weeks (including the 1-2 weeks in reception which is the worst part)

Marine boot is 12 weeks I believe, not to be a sexist but woman make it through marine boot. i didn't see one woman (or anything close) at benning.

I knew a Marine DI and he said they are both really F****ed up places to be as a E1.





You can answer the question better than any Marine. Join the USMC and even if you were prior Army Infantry, you will go to Marine bootcamp and see for yourself. Unfortunately a prior service Marine who joins the Army won't get the opportunity to go through Army basic. I wonder why that is?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:42:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 11:43:49 AM EST by Mak762]

Originally Posted By rayra:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:


And for the Marine intraservice squabble about which boot camp is tougher - I always thought the mental aspect of the austere training environment at MCRD SD was made even tougher by the fact it is right smack dab in the middle of town -



glad I didn't go to MCRD SD I know too many people in SD and the area very well I probably would have bolted and got some poon!

Anyone remember the strip club le girls or something like that?? Real trashy place 5 buck lap dances!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:59:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
...i have been on army convoys and Marine convoys in hot areas. the army convoy takes fire and its "HOLY SHIT WE'RE TAKING FIRE, STEP ON IT" when the Marine convoy took fire it was " WE'RE TAKING FIRE, STOP THE TRUCKS, EVERBODY OUT"


its a cultural difference thats all.



You'd stop in a kill zone, regardless of where the fire is coming from!?!?!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:18:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
You'd stop in a kill zone, regardless of where the fire is coming from!?!?!

What better way to ENGAGE and KILL the Enemy?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:31:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By Mak762:
Army Infantry osut is 14-16 weeks (including the 1-2 weeks in reception which is the worst part)

Marine boot is 12 weeks I believe, not to be a sexist but woman make it through marine boot. i didn't see one woman (or anything close) at benning.

I knew a Marine DI and he said they are both really F****ed up places to be as a E1.





You can answer the question better than any Marine. Join the USMC and even if you were prior Army Infantry, you will go to Marine bootcamp and see for yourself. Unfortunately a prior service Marine who joins the Army won't get the opportunity to go through Army basic. I wonder why that is?



+1. I knew a guy who came from the Army and had to go thru MC boot. He said they fucked with your head more in the Army but the USMC was more physically demanding.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:58:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
You'd stop in a kill zone, regardless of where the fire is coming from!?!?!

What better way to ENGAGE and KILL the Enemy?



Or what better way to get you and yor whole convoy killed - by doing just what the enemy wants you to do - stop in his kill zone.

If a "near" ambush - if you can see the attackers - especially if you can steer your vehicle towards them (and thus also out of the kill zone, into their ranks) go for it.

95% of the time - haul ass out of the kill zone.

I am hearing a lot of chest thumping here but not so much basic military common sense.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:14:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
You'd stop in a kill zone, regardless of where the fire is coming from!?!?!

What better way to ENGAGE and KILL the Enemy?



Or what better way to get you and yor whole convoy killed - by doing just what the enemy wants you to do - stop in his kill zone.

If a "near" ambush - if you can see the attackers - especially if you can steer your vehicle towards them (and thus also out of the kill zone, into their ranks) go for it.

95% of the time - haul ass out of the kill zone.

I am hearing a lot of chest thumping here but not so much basic military common sense.



+1

The whole point of a convoy is to get your cargo from point A to point B safely.

Stopping to engage the enemy is downright stupid so long as you have the ability to return fire and haul ass with all you vehicles. Thats not your mission.. return fire, move out, and call in someone who is tasked with the actual mission of engaging the enemy in that area.

But stopping a convoy to engage the enemy any time you receive fire is tactically stupid on so many levels.....

Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:15:06 PM EST
The Army is Expanding the OSUT concept beyond combat arms. How far I am not sure, but I know 63B OSUT is slated to come online in the near future.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:33:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
You'd stop in a kill zone, regardless of where the fire is coming from!?!?!

What better way to ENGAGE and KILL the Enemy?



Or what better way to get you and yor whole convoy killed - by doing just what the enemy wants you to do - stop in his kill zone.

If a "near" ambush - if you can see the attackers - especially if you can steer your vehicle towards them (and thus also out of the kill zone, into their ranks) go for it.

95% of the time - haul ass out of the kill zone.

I am hearing a lot of chest thumping here but not so much basic military common sense.



+1

The whole point of a convoy is to get your cargo from point A to point B safely.

Stopping to engage the enemy is downright stupid so long as you have the ability to return fire and haul ass with all you vehicles. Thats not your mission.. return fire, move out, and call in someone who is tasked with the actual mission of engaging the enemy in that area.

But stopping a convoy to engage the enemy any time you receive fire is tactically stupid on so many levels.....


Not necessarily.
It depends on the Mission.
The mission is rarely simply to get the supplies to Obj A.

Personally, if the situation allows, I like the idea of engaging.
Especially if I'll be heading back the other way, later.

The enemy cannot be allowed to feel "comfortable" with the idea of taking potshots, and there being no consequences.
In a Movement To Contact, it ALL ABOUT the small unit leader making the snap decision when, and when NOT to engage.
Of course the troops must be very well rehearsed.
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Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:35:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 1:38:34 PM EST by Garand_Shooter]
Better than 90% of Army convoy missions are just that, get cargo from point A to point B.

If the order is to get the cargo from point A to point B and engage any enemy along the way, thats another, but I have not heard of many times where the order is like this unless it was a manuever element that was moving itself from point to point, or on a mission to convoy specificly looking for the enemy. But most of your convoys are logistics missions.
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