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Posted: 6/30/2002 10:18:57 PM EST
Take your pick.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 10:29:24 PM EST
LoL i like your sigline.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 10:31:23 PM EST
Tie France or Mexico.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 2:31:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: Tie France or Mexico.
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Got to be France!...They gave us good wine and cheese! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 2:39:03 AM EST
Only the truly ignorant could possibly believe Israel is an ally of the United States.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 2:42:25 AM EST
We, the U.S., Britain and Canada, have fought and died together.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 2:58:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Only the truly ignorant could possibly believe Israel is an ally of the United States.
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[b]subsailor![/b] Please, whoever you are that has gotten hold of the [b]subdude's[/b] computer and logged on here...STOP IT! The [b]subdude[/b] will be really ticked when he sees what you've been posting in his name! Eric The(TrulyIgnorant!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 3:03:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: We, the U.S., Britain and Canada, have fought and died together.
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Yes, in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, as well as, the Boxer Rebellion, WWI, WWII, Korea, the Gulf War, and the current war on terrorism in Afghanistan! Hmmm, I'm wondering how many retired US servicemen are receiving their checks at an address in Israel? Probably, 10,000 times more than retired US servicemen receiving their retirement in any [u]other[/u] country in the Middle East! Oh, or do THOSE retired US servicemen not count in your world? Eh???? Eric The(DoTheMath)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 3:07:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: We, the U.S., Britain and Canada, have fought and died together.
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Yes, in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, as well as, the Boxer Rebellion, WWI, WWII, Korea, the Gulf War, and the current war on terrorism in Afghanistan! Hmmm, I'm wondering how many retired US servicemen are receiving their checks at an address in Israel? Probably, 10,000 times more than retired US servicemen receiving their retirement in any [u]other[/u] country in the Middle East! Oh, or do THOSE retired US servicemen not count in your world? Eh???? Eric The(DoTheMath)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric... YOU'RE GREAT!!! [:D]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 3:07:22 AM EST
I've been trying to learn a little history here - when, if you happen to know, was the war of 1812 fought ?
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 3:13:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: We, the U.S., Britain and Canada, have fought and died together.
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Yes, in the American Revolution and the War of 1812, as well as, the Boxer Rebellion, WWI, WWII, Korea, the Gulf War, and the current war on terrorism in Afghanistan! Hmmm, I'm wondering how many retired US servicemen are receiving their checks at an address in Israel? Probably, 10,000 times more than retired US servicemen receiving their retirement in any [u]other[/u] country in the Middle East! Oh, or do THOSE retired US servicemen not count in your world? Eh???? Eric The(DoTheMath)Hun[>]:)]
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Now HUN, post a topic re retired service people and where they reside if you want to change subjects. (I'm pretty sure I heard on FOXNNBS over the weekend that only Charismatic Pentecostal Baptist Lutherans retired to Israel anyway.)
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 4:23:13 AM EST
Not changing subjects in your thread, [b]subsailor[/b], just trying to get you to see that there [b]IS[/b] a side in this fight that all good men must take. If you don't want to take the US's side in its support of Israel, that's fine, but don't be preaching that sort of mess to the youngsters who may not yet know any better! Oh, the US side is [u]not[/u] Israel? Well, you'de better tell that to every administration since Truman's, and the great majority of the American public, as well as 70% of the members of this Board! How can we all be soooo wrong? Eric The(Or,BetterYet,HowCanYouBeSooooWrong?)Hun[>­]:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 4:38:21 AM EST
Eric - Without regard to the subject matter of this thread, I take exception to your "logic" that since you are many in number you MUST be right. Might has NEVER made right. Neither has numbers. Consider the words of our Lord. [i]Matthew 7 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[/i] In fact, one of our distinguished Mods here has a sig line that sums it up - "If everyone is doin' it, its prolly wrong." Same is true of beleifs - "If everyone is believin' it its prolly wrong." WHICH is NOT to say since 70% of this board beleives something, its prolly wrong. But [b]you[/b] can't logically advocate the reverse either.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 4:46:32 AM EST
I really can't vote for any of the countries listed above. They are all helping us right now, and all have come to our aid in the past. Av.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 4:51:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: We, the U.S., Britain and Canada, have fought and died together.
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Don't forget the Aussies and Kiwis. they were there most of the time as well.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 4:57:11 AM EST
Post from garandman -
Without regard to the subject matter of this thread, I take exception to your "logic" that since you are many in number you MUST be right.
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You are correct, [b]garandman[/b], but since the numbers are against the position that both you and [b]subsailor[/b] take with respect to Israel, [u]you[/u] must be able to satisfactorily explain just how so many administrations, past American public opinion polls, and the vast majority of the members of this Board are [u]so[/u] wrong about Israel! And to date, no one has explained how Israel's stock has always been so high with both the government and the people of the United States, without resorting to allegations of 'brain washing', 'control of media', etc. My brain is quite clean thank you, and if it needs washing anytime in the future, I will handle the cleaning myself. Israel's stock is and has been so high in our estimation, simply because they are always in the right. But that's just my humble opinion.[:D] Eric The(SharedWithTheVastMajorityOfAmericans)Hun[­>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:03:07 AM EST
With 26 of their Countrymen serving under me at this very moment, I would have to request you add the Republic of Korea to your list. This is one country that has stood with us through thick and thin since its inception.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:03:50 AM EST
Had to vote for Britain----IMHO, Israel's use of Jonathan Pollard to try and steal U. S. secrets disqualifies them.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:15:30 AM EST
I would say NONE! The only friends you have are there either due to fear of you or wanting to take advantage of your power.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:20:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 5:22:49 AM EST by 9divdoc]
Originally Posted By garandman: Eric - Without regard to the subject matter of this thread, I take exception to your "logic" that since you are many in number you MUST be right. Might has NEVER made right. Neither has numbers. Consider the words of our Lord. [i]Matthew 7 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[/i] In fact, one of our distinguished Mods here has a sig line that sums it up - "If everyone is doin' it, its prolly wrong." Same is true of beleifs - "If everyone is believin' it its prolly wrong." WHICH is NOT to say since 70% of this board beleives something, its prolly wrong. But [b]you[/b] can't logically advocate the reverse either.
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LOL take note G man of the "herd" you ride with on matters of Jews and Israel not just here..but in the global community...That wide gate will have many fellow travelers who were actually opposed to each other...but in their hearts...that is where they are true allies..The Jew haters the Israel haters are in the end of one faith..its a heart thing..dude and I truly hope yours gets right....
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:21:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from garandman -
Without regard to the subject matter of this thread, I take exception to your "logic" that since you are many in number you MUST be right.
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You are correct, [b]garandman[/b],
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You shoulda stopped there. [:D]
but since the numbers are against the position that both you and [b]subsailor[/b] take with respect to Israel, [u]you[/u] must be able to satisfactorily explain just how so many administrations, past American public opinion polls, and the vast majority of the members of this Board are [u]so[/u] wrong about Israel! )]
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Fact is MOST of the administrations since Truman, I, as an American who holds to the Founders vision, am ashamed of. Most of the administrations since Truman have largely abandoned the Constitution. A couple of those administrations sentenced 59,000 Americans to death, tying their hands behind their backs, inserting them in a war those administrations WOULD NOT let them win. One of those administrations, on Dec. 7, 1991, the 50th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, stood on the USS Arizona Memorial, and mocked the "narrow view of nationalism." Ya know, the [b]whole[/b] reason the 1,100 men interred beneath his dishonorable feet were DEAD. HARDLY do I feel that since some Washington beaurecratic HACK beleived something that I am compelled to. They lack the moral standing, IMO. American public opinion polls.....weren't we TOGETHER dismissng those in the Clinton regime??? To grab hold of them now....is....well....you know. Forget media distortion. MOST Americans don't have the good sense to know YOU work for what YOU get. Statistically, less than half of America is now paying the bills for the WHOLE country. What THEY beleive is irrelevant. As to the members of this board who support Israel, I see many of them on the one hand supporting the Second Amendment because it IS Constitutional, yet ignoring the fact that STEALING my tax dollars to GIVE them to a FOREIGN nation is NOWHERE a delegated POWER of the Fed gov't. In my estimation, THEY have a bit of a Constitutional crisis on their hands. They'll need to explain their "part time" Constitutionality before I feel compelled to explain ANYTHING to them. (I've heard YOUR explanation, Eric (which incidentally I don't buy.) I'll need to hear some / someone others. [b]YOU[/b] need to find support for doling out foreign WELFARE payments to Israel IS in the Constitution. Hint: IT AIN'T. Don't waste your time lookin'.)
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:25:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 5:26:30 AM EST by ilikelegs]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 5:26:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: LOL take note G man of the "herd" you ride with on matters of Jews and Israel not just here..but in the global community... [0)]
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And if they happen to beleive that the earth is round, then you also are in their ill company. And you KNOW better than to beleive I hold to my beleifs for the same reasons they do. You KNOW better. You KNOW I have NEVER cited their writings, websites or thoughts. My sources have been the Bible, the US Constituion, the Founding Fathers (among them our nations first President) etc. If citing those sources puts me in league with them, I really don't care. And my thoughts are my own. WHO beleives a particular beleif has NO bearing on the correctness of that particular beleif. And you KNOW that.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:12:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:16:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:18:46 AM EST
Anyone who thinks Isreal is America's ally needs their head checked. two words for you: Pollard and Liberty http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/agtr5.htm http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0693/9306019.htm http://www.davidmrowell.com/ussliberty.htm
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:23:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 6:39:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaulLaVanway: Had to vote for Britain----IMHO, Israel's use of Jonathan Pollard to try and steal U. S. secrets disqualifies them.
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[size=5]Whoa! Stop right there![/size=5] Must the Hun continue with his history lessons? [b]Surely all of you have heard of Klaus Fuchs, and the 'Cambridge Four'?[/b] Who were they? The most prolific spies in the Cold War, that's all. Successful in getting the Soviet Union, not only the atomic bomb, but the hydrogen bomb, as well! The first is Klaus Fuchs, a native of Germany who fled when the Nazis took power, he immigrated to England and became a British subject. The remainder are: Guy Francis de Moncy [b]Burgess[/b] (1910-1963), BBC broadcaster, agent in MI6, secretary to Deputy Foreign Minister, Hector McNeil, British Foreign Office secretary, London, Washington [b]Anthony F. Blunt[/b] (1907-1983), tutor of French, art historian, art adviser to Queen Elizabeth, agent in MI5 during World War Two, "The Fourth Man" [b]Donald Maclean[/b] (1915-1983), Foreign Office secretary, Paris, Washington, Cairo, London; and, finally, [b]Harold Adrian Russell ("Kim") Philby[/b] (1912-1988), journalist, agent in MI6, "The Third Man" So if Israel is to be booted from any consideration as 'America's best ally' then it is only fair that Britain be booted, as well! But the Israeli government was behind Pollard, Hun! There is no concrete evidence for that statement, at all! Sorry, but none. Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:02:52 AM EST
[peep] Short truce, [b]brothers[/b]....
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:19:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Elric: Anyone who thinks Isreal is America's ally needs their head checked. two words for you: Pollard and Liberty
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Anyone whose first post on the AR15.com Board is a jibe at more than half of the membership on this Board needs his or her head examined, as well. Do we know you? Have you been here before? If you want to start a 'Pollard' or 'USS Liberty' thread, be our guest [b]'newbie'[/b], but before you do, you'd better go do a search and read (or re-read) those threads to see what's already been said, debated, harangued, and agreed to be disagreed about. Simple? BTW, what the dickens is VCT??? Eric The(NextTimeIntroduceYourselfFirst,ThenComeJu­mpInThePile...)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:30:56 AM EST
Sorry, can't vote... didn't see a 'NONE' option. We don't have friends or allies, only countries who like our deep pockets... Is that a myopic view? Yep...
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:38:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 7:41:59 AM EST by Scarecrow]
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: Wow Scarecrow ! Looks like your starting to get wiser and keep your mouth shut now. I noticed no opinions by you posted in your thread. As far as your poll. My vote went to Israel just to put the % in their favor. I hope the end result pisses you off ![}:D]
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Unlike you, I don't need to create a topic to spread my opinion constantly and spew giberish at every turn. Now God forbid you voted how you feel rather then attempt low level baiting. Seriously, just because you can't beat me in open discussion doesn't mean you have to run to my threads and degrade yourself by talking. Get over me, you will live longer.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:39:33 AM EST
Gotta go with the U.K. When push comes to shove, they can always be counted on. Some of the best soldiers in the World- SAS, Royal Marines etc, come from there.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:44:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: Ooh and welcome, there is a seat next to scarecrow for you to sit in.
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Anything to drag me into the conversation. You need to seriously not take these gun boards too serious and let go of the fact your a weak minded person. Go back to bed, the evil Scarecrow wont get you.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:45:29 AM EST
I vote with the UK as our #1. I hope that we can stay on topic in this thread... Eric/Tyler
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 7:58:05 AM EST
Ignoring some of the 'shadier' questions for a bit (like that of the U.S.S. Liberty), take a look at Israel. To be a country that small with that many problems, I would assume that they would not so easily break off from one of the (like it or not) most powerful countries in the world. I'm fairly sure that if, God forbid, some conflict were to arise that the US would be involved in, Israel would gladly help. Now whether this is because of friendship or the millions they recieve from us each year is another question...
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 8:03:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 8:27:03 AM EST
A.One way to tell a friend is to count how many times they have help you when you asked them for something in the recent past. B.Is it a parasitic relationship. I would say this can be broken up in to two groups GROUP 1 Britain Australia Germany Canada GROUP 2 Israel :I hope they make group 1 some day
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 8:41:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 8:53:17 AM EST by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By garandman: And you KNOW better than to beleive I hold to my beleifs for the same reasons they do.
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NO, we don't know better, for I firmly believe that that is the ONLY reason you post what you do. I KNOW that the following is all smoke and mirrors to cover your pure hatred of Israel.
You KNOW better. You KNOW I have NEVER cited their writings, websites or thoughts. My sources have been the Bible, the US Constituion, the Founding Fathers (among them our nations first President) etc. If citing those sources puts me in league with them, I really don't care. And my thoughts are my own. WHO beleives a particular beleif has NO bearing on the correctness of that particular beleif. And you KNOW that.
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As I said, smoke and mirrors. AND when you do quote the Constitution, the Bible, and the Founding Fathers, you always twist it to suit your needs, IMHO. All of the sources you quote are subject to interpretation.
If citing those sources puts me in league with them, I really don't care. And my thoughts are my own.
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I am not surprised that being put in the same category with murdering terrorists doesn't bother you. As for your thoughts being your own, big deal. Your hatred of Israel may be your own thoughts, they are hardly any kind of original or individual thinking. There have been many throughout history who have hated Israel. Currently, Israel haters are so blinded by this hatred that they don't mind that they are siding with murdering Islamic terrorists.
YOU need to find support for doling out foreign WELFARE payments to Israel IS in the Constitution. Hint: IT AIN'T. Don't waste your time lookin'.)
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Please show me in the Constitution where foreign policy is addressed at all, either way. Not quotes from some Founding Fathers who believed in isolationism, but where in the Constitution does it support your view, where does in say that we should be isolationist, where it forbids foreign aid. SHOW ME!
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 8:45:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 8:57:47 AM EST by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Scarecrow:
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: Wow Scarecrow ! Looks like your starting to get wiser and keep your mouth shut now. I noticed no opinions by you posted in your thread. As far as your poll. My vote went to Israel just to put the % in their favor. I hope the end result pisses you off ![}:D]
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Unlike you, I don't need to create a topic to spread my opinion constantly and spew giberish at every turn. Now God forbid you voted how you feel rather then attempt low level baiting. Seriously, just because you can't beat me in open discussion doesn't mean you have to run to my threads and degrade yourself by talking. Get over me, you will live longer.
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I am just amazed at the creative ways the Israel haters can find to start threads to bash Israel, but use titles that don't seemingly do that. It's also amazing to see how many of them they can have going at the same time. It is always the same old tired cliches, quotes, etc. Why even argue with these bigots. This thread isn't even really about who the best US ally is, it's about bashing Israel. My apologies to those who sincerely answered the poll with any choice, but the thread isn't about that.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:47:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 9:53:54 AM EST by Scarecrow]
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: I've beaten your ass in every thread, Your just a sore loser.
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Yah thats why I am in your thread right now talking shit... Oh my mistake, thats you in my thread stirring up shit. I really don't give a shit about you, thats why you will never see me baiting you like you are me by directly targetting your threads to make it all about me like you have done here.
The Mr. Rogers thread was the best. I actually have a good time punking you around. There is no animosity here with me towards you. How can I ? You've already admitted you can't afford any guns so now I just pitty your sorry ass.
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I never said I can't afford any guns, I said I don't have eneugh money to buy every gun I want. No matter why you think so highly of Israel, facts don't matter to you.
Ooh, and your sig line is a joke concidering you don't have any guns as it is that could use high cap mags.
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I have a SIG P226 and 2 15rd mags limited to 10rd each with rivets. I also have a aftermarket M14 30rd mag, but thats for a future project. Right now I am bussy making myself a 1911.
You should come down to the next shootout at ETH's. At least you could find out what its like.
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Though I would love to, and plan to in the future, I have to work this summer to finnish of paying my credit card bills and working to get back all the savings I wasted living the fast life buying my women food, paying her bills, buying her clothes, buying her jewlery and taking care of myself on top of all that. This is what happends when you lose your IT job making big $ and having to settle for a stupid job making just eneugh to make ends meet.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:52:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 9:55:36 AM EST by garandman]
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Please show me in the Constitution where foreign policy is addressed at all, either way. Not quotes from some Founding Fathers who believed in isolationism, but where in the Constitution does it support your view, where does in say that we should be isolationist, where it forbids foreign aid. SHOW ME!
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This shows a gross misunderstanding of what Constitutional [b]POWERS [/b] actually are. If you understood that, you wouldn't even ask that question. Further, you MUST be uninformed of the wording of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. As I have already addressed BOTH of these issues at length, I'll not do so again.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:52:53 AM EST
LARRYG, the topic is not Israel bashing, there arent eneugh words in the topic or anywhere else at the beggining of this thread to come to that conclusion. You have just been dragged into the EricTheHun/Garandman effect. I made this thread to show my fellow Canadians what Americans really do think about their contributions in the war on terror. To show that a country that wasn't using its sniper's to protect US soldiers in the feild, that a country that isn't even involved in the war in Afghanistan is looked upon higher then Canada.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 9:57:48 AM EST
definitley the UK. I support Israel, but they're our allies only b/c they need and depend on us.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 10:23:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/1/2002 10:25:07 AM EST by ilikelegs]
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 10:36:21 AM EST
ilikelegs, I am not the kind of guy to hold grudges either, I don't look to fight people on gun boards, because before I know it I call someone a few bad names, fling some shit, and set the thread a blaze and next thing I know I am banned. You might feel I am a Troll or whatever, but can we please avoid fighting for the sake of orderly discussion?
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 10:50:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 11:55:44 AM EST
Two words for you, PaulLaVanway. Kim Philby.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 12:27:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Please show me in the Constitution where foreign policy is addressed at all, either way. Not quotes from some Founding Fathers who believed in isolationism, but where in the Constitution does it support your view, where does in say that we should be isolationist, where it forbids foreign aid. SHOW ME!
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This shows a gross misunderstanding of what Constitutional [b]POWERS [/b] actually are. If you understood that, you wouldn't even ask that question. Further, you MUST be uninformed of the wording of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. As I have already addressed BOTH of these issues at length, I'll not do so again.
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As is typical, you can't and won't answer the question directly. It doesn't show anything on my part. All it shows is that you love to spout about the Constitution but when asked a specific question, you dance around it with insults to the person that asked. The only thing you have addressed at length is your blind hatred of Israel. You can shove your insults. Your post above is a very poor attempt at trying to get someone to view you as intellectual. Further, you MUST be uninformed to the wording of anything except your Israel-hating posts. I asked you a question, you again didn't answer. This is your typical pattern. You make all these claims about the Constitution. Instead of making a poor attempt at insulting someone who asks you to show them, why don't you try to back up your point. It would save a lot of typing and arguing back and forth.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 12:35:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By LARRYG: I asked you a question, you again didn't answer. This is your typical pattern. You make all these claims about the Constitution. Instead of making a poor attempt at insulting someone who asks you to show them, why don't you try to back up your point. It would save a lot of typing and arguing back and forth.
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In the Constitution, there are "rights" and there are "powers." "Powers" are those things SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED to gov't. If NOT specifically enumerated, gov't has NO power to take a certain action. So, be defintion, if NOT specifically enumerated, foreign aid is unConstitutional. The fact that the Constitution omits a POWER from the Fed gov't makes my point for me. I need not prove gov't doesn't have the power to send foreign aid all over the world, as the whole theory of Constitutional gov't is that if it ain't in the Constitution, gov't has no right to do it. For verification, ask ANYONE on this site who hasn't shown strong feelings one way or the other on the Israel issue if my interpretation is right. A preponderance will agree with me.
Link Posted: 7/1/2002 12:58:38 PM EST
Although I consider Israel a strong ally of the US, I must completely support garandman in his definition of the constitution. There's absolutely no way you can argue with him on this one. [:)]
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