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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/6/2005 4:09:23 PM EDT
It must be something that is hardwired into the male DNA.

From early on most of us dream about building a large empire of achievement or success and having it maintained through the ages by our decendents. Perhaps it is our desire for immortality in legacy if not in body. This can be expressed in large ways by powerful families of "name" and smaller ways with things as simple as a "Father & Son" business.

But for many it will not materialize. Some will only achieve part of the equation, some barely getting through life on their own merits with no thought of empire building.

For the material minded (who may deliberately have no heir) the empire may be their only goal. Often motivated by selfishness, some choose to only concern themselves with their own personal attainment and comfort.

For others sometimes the heir is all that matters. Usually more selfless than the first example some will even sacrifice their own comfort and attainment to provide for their offspring and ensure their continuation.

Obviously if it was up to us, most of us would want both. But what if you could have only one?

Which would you choose?

Would you prefer to have a large successful empire that could easily provide for several generations and virtually ensure the stability and continuation of your family name but WITHOUT and heir to leave it all to one day?

Or would you prefer to have the heir WITHOUT being able to provide anything of consequence who would have the basic needs to survive but will struggle through life as you did with little material reward?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:11:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 4:29:32 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Obviously if it was up to us, most of us would want both. But what if you could have only one?




On the other hand, some of us are like the guy in your avatar, and have a beautiful dream of doing nothing!

ETA: But to answer the question abstractly, I'd say the lack of "Empire" is sadder, because creating an "heir" is something that ANYONE can do, and would probably not give me a great sense of accomplishment.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:13:29 PM EDT
I'd rather give my child the gift of a good work ethic and intelligence to use it then wealth without the means to control it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:14:48 PM EDT
I have known men of wealth (names on sides of buildings and all) but no heirs. They seemed miserable.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:29:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:
I have known men of wealth (names on sides of buildings and all) but no heirs. They seemed miserable.



And there are men who have a bunch of kids and next to nothing else who aren't terribly happy either.

And that was kinda my point, both are sad.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:31:23 PM EDT

For the material minded (who may deliberately have no heir) the empire may be their only goal. Often motivated by selfishness, some choose to only concern themselves with their own personal attainment and comfort.


Thus was / is (is / was) my goal for the past 68 years (been married for five years), perhaps it is still the prime directive of my being.

My wife, which happens to be less than half my age, wishes for children.

It would seem I cannot come to grips with playing catch from a wheelchair while on an oxygen mask. It just is not fair to a child.
Their life would have not for want but, the lack of a father to provide the basics, such as a game of catch, this I find unacceptable.


For others sometimes the heir is all that matters. Usually more selfless than the first example some will even sacrifice their own comfort and attainment to provide for their offspring and ensure their continuation.

Obviously if it was up to us, most of us would want both. But what if you could have only one?

Which would you choose?



I made my choice long ago.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:35:29 PM EDT
Money means nothing.
The legacy of love you leave in the form of your children will live forever.
I would rather die pennyless and totally unknown and have raised my kids well than have been a greedy miser and die alone.
Family is what matters, anyone who says different is selling something....literally.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:39:01 PM EDT
Simple: A heir can build an empire, an empire can't make a heir.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:40:06 PM EDT
Family is teh sux!

I'll take the cash thanks!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:43:10 PM EDT
SPECTRE,

Please understand, I have read much of your text over the years, which, I do mostly agree. That being said typed, please allow me the following.




Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Money means nothing.



Try living without monies, not only does it not pay the bills, feed the faces, the lack of, it does create much hardships.


Family is what matters, anyone who says different is selling something....literally.


Agreed, family does and is always the strongest but, take away the ability to provide and the cracks shall begin to show, the mortor breaks and all else begins to degrade.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:44:33 PM EDT
Get both
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:46:47 PM EDT
No hair.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:47:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:
Simple: A heir can build an empire, an empire can't make a heir.




That's about what I was thinking.... at least the lineage lives on.



"I leave you nothing but what you can take with this" and throws the sword down by the infant.

-anyone know where that came from???
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:
Simple: A heir can build an empire, an empire can't make a heir.




That's about what I was thinking.... at least the lineage lives on.



"I leave you nothing but what you can take with this" and throws the sword down by the infant.

-anyone know where that came from???



+1. If the genes are good, the empire can be built.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:55:49 PM EDT
I think I'm the opposite of most. I don't want there to be any trace that I was here in a hundred years. No tombstone, nothing. Ashes to ashes, compost to compost.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:56:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:



"I leave you nothing but what you can take with this" and throws the sword down by the infant.

-anyone know where that came from???



I do not but, I did recently have a broad sword commissioned, this I shall leave to my heir.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:58:53 PM EDT
it's arfcom... get both.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:00:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AILapua:
SPECTRE,

Please understand, I have read much of your text over the years, which, I do mostly agree. That being said typed, please allow me the following.




Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Money means nothing.



Try living without monies, not only does it not pay the bills, feed the faces, the lack of, it does create much hardships.


Family is what matters, anyone who says different is selling something....literally.


Agreed, family does and is always the strongest but, take away the ability to provide and the cracks shall begin to show, the mortor breaks and all else begins to degrade.



I see I worded my post poorlly.
I didn't mean to imply that money means nothing. Rather, I should have put that statement into context.
I fully agree that you must be able to provide for your family and to make of your life what you wish. The amount of money it takes to accomplish these goals is up to each of us.
What I meant was, I would never choose money over family. We may never be rich, but I take pride in bringing my kids up right and making them productive members of society.
That is my legacy.

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:26:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By AILapua:
SPECTRE,

Please understand, I have read much of your text over the years, which, I do mostly agree. That being said typed, please allow me the following.




Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Money means nothing.



Try living without monies, not only does it not pay the bills, feed the faces, the lack of, it does create much hardships.


Family is what matters, anyone who says different is selling something....literally.


Agreed, family does and is always the strongest but, take away the ability to provide and the cracks shall begin to show, the mortor breaks and all else begins to degrade.



I see I worded my post poorlly.
I didn't mean to imply that money means nothing. Rather, I should have put that statement into context.
I fully agree that you must be able to provide for your family and to make of your life what you wish. The amount of money it takes to accomplish these goals is up to each of us.
What I meant was, I would never choose money over family. We may never be rich, but I take pride in bringing my kids up right and making them productive members of society.
That is my legacy.




No, you did not word it poorly, you just allowed an old man the opportunity to poke the bear while in his den!

I too, can agree with your statement "I would never choose money over family". While growing to be a man, I thought, one should have xxxxxx.xx dollars in the bank before marrying, for this was the logical means to provide. Within a few years, the sum desired grew substantially. By the time I hit my thirties, the sum was much, at least to this 'young man' (at the time). By the time I hit my forties, I thought, do I wish to lose half should things fail? For it is such a gamble, one I was not willing to take for many, many years.
In all, it progressed from there...

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:26:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
I think I'm the opposite of most. I don't want there to be any trace that I was here in a hundred years. No tombstone, nothing. Ashes to ashes, compost to compost.



A very attainable goal.

Many are completely forgotten in a single generation.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:50:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
I'd rather give my child the gift of a good work ethic and intelligence to use it then wealth without the means to control it.



Like her?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:20:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:25:32 PM EDT
Build a big enough empire and make it known, and you will have no shortage of "heirs." Trust, my family are pros at this.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:27:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 7:28:49 PM EDT by yekimak]
get both!

there is no reason not to.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:46:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Money means nothing.
The legacy of love you leave in the form of your children will live forever.
I would rather die pennyless and totally unknown and have raised my kids well than have been a greedy miser and die alone.
Family is what matters, anyone who says different is selling something....literally.



+1
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:24:37 PM EDT
It's easy, no heir is sadder. You can't take your empire with you. You can only "live on" in Earth through your children when God punches your clock.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:44:35 PM EDT
An Empire is a shoe in that you can have your cake and eat it too?
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