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Posted: 9/1/2005 5:57:53 AM EDT
I think most of us would agree taking water and food for survival is one thing, stealing a VCR is something else.


With the waters rising, most of the goods in stores will be ruined anyway. You could argue that the looters are salvaging things - though one has to wonder where they think they can take their loot to.


Stores if and when they reopen will simply throw EVERYTHING in the dumpster and take the insurance.



I'm tending to think that looting stores isn't that bad, but looters hitting homes are a totally different thing, and should be dealt with severely.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:09:23 AM EDT
Salvage: taking things that have been abandoned and will soon be of no use to anyone if left where they are.

Looting: taking things that are in no danger of destruction and somebody will miss.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:13:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Salvage: taking things that have been abandoned and will soon be of no use to anyone if left where they are.

Looting: taking things that are in no danger of destruction and somebody will miss.




Using that definition, virtually everything in New Orleans could be considered SALVAGE
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:13:49 AM EDT
The city was ordered evacuated. Looters "salvaging" anything are endangering the lives of rescuers.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:16:44 AM EDT
Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:17:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 6:22:47 AM EDT by m193]
food & water, diapers and other necessities is understandable

TV's and computers is a shooting offense. Raiding homes is a shooting offense.

It's pretty much a black & white scenario.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:20:08 AM EDT
When there are alternative means to get food and water to you via aid & rescue efforts, the argument for 'salvaging' it gets pretty weak. Especially when the entire area has been ordered evacuated.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:23:46 AM EDT
Salvaging is when they are in Wal Mart. Looting is when they are in my garage.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:23:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Salvage: taking things that have been abandoned and will soon be of no use to anyone if left where they are.

Looting: taking things that are in no danger of destruction and somebody will miss.




Using that definition, virtually everything in New Orleans could be considered SALVAGE



Yeah, pretty much... "looting" in this case means stealing stuff from the other poor bastards who aren't as well armed as you.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:24:10 AM EDT
there is no such thing as "salvaging" here! the difference between salvaging and looting is a fucking locked door. i'm pretty fucking sure these people intended to come back to their businesses..."salvage" my fucking ass...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:24:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tisfortexas:

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???



Well, a LOT of stuff was washed away anyway......
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:29:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By tisfortexas:

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???



Well, a LOT of stuff was washed away anyway......



I would be happy to give away food and water from my store AFTER me and mine got what we needed and when they start taking everything else too the body recovery team will be working overtime on my street.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:30:31 AM EDT
Stealing is stealing. Those people were told to leave the area, they chose to stay and now can't provide for themselves without stealing other people's property.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:30:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 6:31:21 AM EDT by PinPointOne]
Stealing is stealing ... no gray area.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:32:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By tisfortexas:

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???



Well, a LOT of stuff was washed away anyway......



Into this dumpster yo! So now I's be movin it down da road to mo flucky salvage dis shit!

I guess the gang mentality took over very quickly when one or two people started taking things; the rest joined in.

I just have a hard time morally accepting that decent people would be compelled to steal anything and everything. In some of the video people were pushing displays out of the stores full of product. No it wasn't canned goods but DVDs! There are still parts of the city that are not flooded and I'm sure people are attempting to stash items for when (or if ) they return or to take with them.

These people took advantage of a situation and LOOTED everyhting. Once the orgy of destruction is over and they need help again they will hopefully return to behaving and following socieital norms again.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:35:48 AM EDT
i just wish it had been more orderly ("orderly looting" yeah, right). i mean, if they'd had a couple of guys handing stuff out to folks according to their "need" it woulda looked a whole lot better on the news and you'd be hearing a lot less "fucking niggers!" around the country...

fucking .gov (fed and state) really dropped the frigging ball here.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:45:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tisfortexas:
Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???



Receipts, if you're so lucky. The newest version of Quicken allows you to scan receipts into the system for safe keeping. Burn your data files to CD and run.

Video & Pictures. Everyone should make periodic visual records of their home contents.

Try to sit in your living room and list everything you have in your family room... or garage. You'll miss a TON of items. Take that video and run with it. It's valid for the insurance guys.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:46:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i just wish it had been more orderly ("orderly looting" yeah, right). i mean, if they'd had a couple of guys handing stuff out to folks according to their "need" it woulda looked a whole lot better on the news and you'd be hearing a lot less "fucking niggers!" around the country...

fucking .gov (fed and state) really dropped the frigging ball here.



The federal government has been giving money to NO and LA for years to upgrade the levee system and pumps, and they had DECADES to design an evcauation plan.

The federal government is NOT to blame for what has happened.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:48:43 AM EDT
salvaging returns the salvaged goods or value of said goods to the original owner. Looting is stealing. Those who looted food for survival should of stocked up before the SHTF.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:48:47 AM EDT
Looting is stealing, period.

Salvage means you are authorized, either by the owner or the authorities, to pull things out of the area in question.

There has been no salvaging in NO, just looting.

I guess any way to excuse these assholes is fine with some people.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:52:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 6:57:54 AM EDT by soowah]
These stores are going to *maybe* get repaid by insurance. Living in a flood plain and encountering an *act of God* could easly be an exclusion on their policies. That said, a lot of the stuff taken could be sold as 'salvage'. The salvage is the right (belongs to) the insurance co. in leiu of subrogation to a 3rd party. If the ins. co pays the claim the Ins. co gets to handle the salvage as they see fit. YMMV.


Edit: As far as the washed away, most stores keep an inventory for P&L. If a CAT adjuster walks into a store and sees the shelves bare, doors wide open and nothing left in the store, makes it kinda hard to claim, it just washed away.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:02:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
The city was ordered evacuated. Looters "salvaging" anything are endangering the lives of rescuers.



Bullshit. If I decide to swim across the missippi river from St. Louis MO to East St. Louis, IL, the only life I'm endangering is my own. If someone decides I need rescuing and chooses to try, then they are endangering their life, not me.

I know you'll trot out the "duty" argument, but I still say bullshit. Every firefighter, officer, paramedic, etc makes a decision that the potential benefit is worth the risk to themselves when they place themselves in danger. They can refuse to do so if they decide otherwise. Yes, it might cost them their job, but that is another consequence of their decision.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:03:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By soowah:
These stores are going to *maybe* get repaid by insurance. Living in a flood plain and encountering an *act of God* could easly be an exclusion on their policies. That said, a lot of the stuff taken could be sold as 'salvage'. The salvage is the right (belongs to) the insurance co. in leiu of subrogation to a 3rd party. If the ins. co pays the claim the Ins. co gets to handle the salvage as they see fit. YMMV.



Add to that most people don't bother with flood insurance.

Falling waters (rain, exposed roof, etc.) are covered by your homeowner's insurance, but rising waters are only covered by flood insurance.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:20:41 AM EDT
If I recover my property it's salvage.

If I recover your property it's looting. Unless I have your prior permission.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:21:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
If I recover my property it's salvage.

If I recover your property it's looting. Unless I have your prior permission.



+1
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:34:58 AM EDT
Salvage is what is done after the threat has passed and order restored. Anything else is looting
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:37:10 AM EDT
Salvaging is taking what is yours.

Looting is taking from others.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:44:16 AM EDT
You know, there is a body of law concerning salvage. IIRC, if your boat is stranded (stuck on a sand bar, etc) and someone throws you a line, they have some rights under the law of salvage. I don't know if it applies on fresh/brackish water as well as salt. Maybe those guys floating up and down Canal St (Canal Canal?) on inflatable mattresses could put on an eyepatch and be OK. YOHO!

Any hive legal beagles out there?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:49:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i just wish it had been more orderly ("orderly looting" yeah, right). i mean, if they'd had a couple of guys handing stuff out to folks according to their "need" it woulda looked a whole lot better on the news and you'd be hearing a lot less "fucking niggers!" around the country...

fucking .gov (fed and state) really dropped the frigging ball here.



How?
Is it the .gov's job to provide for people?

No thanks Comrade, I'll take care of myself.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:07:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
You know, there is a body of law concerning salvage. IIRC, if your boat is stranded (stuck on a sand bar, etc) and someone throws you a line, they have some rights under the law of salvage. I don't know if it applies on fresh/brackish water as well as salt. Maybe those guys floating up and down Canal St (Canal Canal?) on inflatable mattresses could put on an eyepatch and be OK. YOHO!

Any hive legal beagles out there?




HAhaha Blue water/ Brown water. Blue= salt. I took my level 7 adjuster license almost 15 years ago now. I barely remember shit about the law of the sea. Just don't throw your stuff overboard.
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