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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/15/2005 9:29:46 AM EDT
Does this mean that its "seconds" and not of high enough quality to be issued to the troops?

www.ammoman.com/images/308-NAT5001.jpg
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:32:29 AM EDT
Could it mean it was made in Isreal and would be un-PC to use in combat?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:32:50 AM EDT
It means if you shoot someone with it, it really wont hurt, because its just for training.

tag
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:33:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:34:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
It means if you shoot someone with it, it really wont hurt, because its just for training.

tag



Yup just like target ammo! It magically stops at the target
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:36:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Could it mean it was made in Isreal and would be un-PC to use in combat?



No, it's probably more like XM193PD which also has the "for training use only" dislaimer - made from pulled-down components, and not quite of the quality that meets the criteria for issue ammo.

Still goes bang every time, but there is more variance in the casings, and even the loads. At least when I use XM193PD, not all the rounds have the same noise/recoil to them, which suggests to me that the loads aren't the same. Last time I used some, I honestly thought I had a squib round, because I swear one shot felt and sounded like a .22lr, not a .223. However, it did make it out of the barrel, so everything was fine.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:37:34 AM EDT


Tag.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:39:27 AM EDT
I'm at work so won't be checking Ammoman's site but some training ammo is regular ammo that failed QC.

I have probably 750 rounds of Federal 9mm HPs that were bulk-packed and marked for training use because there is no primer or bullet sealant or something like that. Great for plinking but I'd never bet my life on it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:39:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Could it mean it was made in Isreal and would be un-PC to use in combat?



No, it's probably more like XM193PD which also has the "for training use only" dislaimer - made from pulled-down components, and not quite of the quality that meets the criteria for issue ammo.

Still goes bang every time, but there is more variance in the casings, and even the loads. At least when I use XM193PD, not all the rounds have the same noise/recoil to them, which suggests to me that the loads aren't the same. Last time I used some, I honestly thought I had a squib round, because I swear one shot felt and sounded like a .22lr, not a .223. However, it did make it out of the barrel, so everything was fine.




Packed loose, too. A good indicator.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:46:57 AM EDT
In military terminology it means just that (Condition Code B). Probably a high misfire rate, poor accuracy, extreme storage conditions...something like that.

You would be amazed at how much stuff is restricted to training use only, and not just small arms.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:48:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:
In military terminology it means just that (Condition Code B). Probably a high misfire rate, poor accuracy, extreme storage conditions...something like that.

You would be amazed at how much stuff is restricted to training use only, and not just small arms.

Eddie



Good enough reasons for me to stay away from it, even for plinking.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:55:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



No, it's probably more like XM193PD which also has the "for training use only" dislaimer - made from pulled-down components




They are not "pull downs"
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:58:19 AM EDT
thats the crap they were shooting over our heads at the low crawl assault couse thing. Glad I did not stand up
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:01:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



No, it's probably more like XM193PD which also has the "for training use only" dislaimer - made from pulled-down components




They are not "pull downs"




Hey - this is the internet! I can make any wild claims I want!!



Sorry - I may have misunderstood the whole "pull down" thing. I thought that's what the PD in XM193PD stood for. Thanks for the clarification.

But the rest is correct, right? Basically the ammo works, but just not of the quality and consistency required for issue use?

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:10:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 10:11:54 AM EDT by mcnielsen]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



No, it's probably more like XM193PD which also has the "for training use only" dislaimer - made from pulled-down components




They are not "pull downs"




Hey - this is the internet! I can make any wild claims I want!!



Sorry - I may have misunderstood the whole "pull down" thing. I thought that's what the PD in XM193PD stood for. Thanks for the clarification.

But the rest is correct, right? Basically the ammo works, but just not of the quality and consistency required for issue use?




The PD stands for Police Department as in PD Training Ammo.


ETA: Yes the rest is essentially correct. Some defect, cosmetic or otherwise, that prevents it from being sold commericially as "New, perfect ammo" Ask Fedgunner, he works at Federal/ATK as an ammo tester.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:24:23 AM EDT
I shoot the -For Training Use Only- 62 grain, M855, 5.56mm, through all three of my AR's. I've yet to experience a "light" load, nor any accuracy issues after over two thousand rounds. It will still kill like any "box of twenty".

Sua Sponte,
Prib
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:27:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



No, it's probably more like XM193PD which also has the "for training use only" dislaimer - made from pulled-down components




They are not "pull downs"




Hey - this is the internet! I can make any wild claims I want!!



Sorry - I may have misunderstood the whole "pull down" thing. I thought that's what the PD in XM193PD stood for. Thanks for the clarification.

But the rest is correct, right? Basically the ammo works, but just not of the quality and consistency required for issue use?




No, no, the PD stands for 'pretzel deposit'.......
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:31:09 AM EDT
I got a 1000 round box of XM193PD from Eric about a year ago. I guess I've shot 800 rounds of it and haven't had any problems. The cases look a little suspect on some of them - little dents, ect.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:31:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timothy585:
Does this mean that its "seconds" and not of high enough quality to be issued to the troops?

www.ammoman.com/images/308-NAT5001.jpg



There's a good thread tacked in the Ammo Forum - "PD" Ammo.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:32:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timothy585:

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:
In military terminology it means just that (Condition Code B). Probably a high misfire rate, poor accuracy, extreme storage conditions...something like that.

You would be amazed at how much stuff is restricted to training use only, and not just small arms.

Eddie



Good enough reasons for me to stay away from it, even for plinking.

Thanks.



Training and Plinking is exactly what that stuff is for. For the price, you should be able to live with a misfire or two out of every 1000 rounds. I've bought several 1000 round packs of XM193PD and XM855PD. Maybe a total of 3 rounds I've culled from them and threw away. 1 was a cracked neck and two had some pretty decent dents in the casing. Those two would have probably still worked, but my rifle isn't a crash test dummy.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:45:37 AM EDT
We use NBC suits for training, marked "for training use only". What would happen if you shot someone wearing one of these suits with ammunition that was marked "for training use only"?

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:52:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
We use NBC suits for training, marked "for training use only". What would happen if you shot someone wearing one of these suits with ammunition that was marked "for training use only"?




With depleted uranium or regular bullets?

I'ld say plinking and training are ok with PD. squibs in rapid fire, now they could get real exciting.

Bet your life ammo? NOPE
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:59:52 PM EDT
Ammo created for the military with less stringent dunnage requirements, specifically not packed in ammo cans with desiccant, etc.

Its the same as A059 ball, but because of the less protective packing. It is not cleared to take overseas because of potential adverse effects of weather because of not be in Waterproof cans. The less costly packing and preserving makes it cheaper hence better for training.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:37:46 PM EDT
I bought some federal 9mm marked that way. Had a bunch of misfires, maybe 2 in every 100. My guess is QC picked up the defect and they sell it as a second.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:46:44 PM EDT
I bought some PD ammo in .223. Some of the cases were horrible, I probably rejected about 30 rounds out of the 1K. Some had bullets loose. I haven't been able to shoot any yet, but I won't be buying any more.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:43:08 PM EDT
I just shot some XM193PD today - probably ran through about 180 - 200 rounds.

Of those, 1 round failed to fire. The primer was struck properly, but nothing happend.
Two rounds CLEARLY had less powder in them (or failed to ignite properly), since they sounded like .22's, and failed to cycle the bolt.

The "weak"-sounding rounds that fail to cycle the bolt is something new, that I haven't experienced previously with XM193PD, but int his batch it's not the first time I've run across it.

(by the way, I also hand-sort the XM193PD before loading mags, so these failure are AFTER culling out about 1-2% of the rounds to start with).



I will NOT be buying XM193PD any longer.
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