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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2005 9:26:45 PM EDT
When a 20" barrel was standard for Army/USMC M-16, and before all the optics and night vision became standard...

....was an HBAR ever/sometimes/usually/never issued on a 20" barrel?
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:42:32 PM EDT
The Marine Corps still uses 20 inch barreled M16s, the M16A4. They have a "govt" profile barrel; light under the handguards, heavy from the front sight to the muzzle. M16A2s have the same barrel. M16A1s and earlier variants have a lighter barrel. The SAM-Rs the Corps also has now have 20 inch DCM barrels, which are heavy contour.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:27:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
The Marine Corps still uses 20 inch barreled M16s, the M16A4. They have a "govt" profile barrel; light under the handguards, heavy from the front sight to the muzzle. M16A2s have the same barrel. M16A1s and earlier variants have a lighter barrel. The SAM-Rs the Corps also has now have 20 inch DCM barrels, which are heavy contour.



+1.... A4's are the same as the A2's also...

-Roth
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:28:37 AM EDT
All the A2s I ever handled had the gov't profile barrels, 1/7 twist.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:53:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
The Marine Corps still uses 20 inch barreled M16s, the M16A4. They have a "govt" profile barrel; light under the handguards, heavy from the front sight to the muzzle. M16A2s have the same barrel. M16A1s and earlier variants have a lighter barrel. The SAM-Rs the Corps also has now have 20 inch DCM barrels, which are heavy contour.



+1.... A4's are the same as the A2's also...

-Roth



Except for the flat-top upper and M5 RAS.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 5:23:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
The Marine Corps still uses 20 inch barreled M16s, the M16A4. They have a "govt" profile barrel; light under the handguards, heavy from the front sight to the muzzle. M16A2s have the same barrel. M16A1s and earlier variants have a lighter barrel. The SAM-Rs the Corps also has now have 20 inch DCM barrels, which are heavy contour.



+1.... A4's are the same as the A2's also...

-Roth



Except for the flat-top upper and M5 RAS.



well..... yea..... lol
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:03:14 PM EDT
So, is it pretty safe to assume that anyone who is runnng around in infantry mode is/was not carrying a full-fledged non-lightened HBAR?

...Except maybe for SAM-Rs. What is that?
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 12:22:11 PM EDT
Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle (SAM-R). It's an overwatch weapon that'll put in a little more accurate fire. At least that's the idea. Most of the rifles I've run into can shoot better than I can
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 1:02:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
So, is it pretty safe to assume that anyone who is runnng around in infantry mode is/was not carrying a full-fledged non-lightened HBAR?






...Except maybe for SAM-Rs. What is that?



SAM-R is the Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle. Concept is to equip designated Marines within the infantry squad with a rifle capable of more precision than the typical M16. The SAM-R is basically a flat-top M16, with a free-floated DCM barrel and a variable power optic.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:33:29 PM EDT
SAM-R ....interesting...didn't know they used .223. I thought I had heard of Squad Designated Marksmen(?) getting M-14s-- in Afghanistan I think. Maybe its an Army vs USMC thing.

I can't remember if it was a lesson learned from early Afghanistan or from Mogadishu ...or somewhere in between.

Anyhow, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:36:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:
SAM-R ....interesting...didn't know they used .223. I thought I had heard of Squad Designated Marksmen(?) getting M-14s-- in Afghanistan I think. Maybe its an Army vs USMC thing.

I can't remember if it was a lesson learned from early Afghanistan or from Mogadishu ...or somewhere in between.

Anyhow, thanks for the info.



Those are DM, designated marksmen rifles. Both the army and Marine Corps has a version of the DM and not to confuse things more the army also has a SDM rifle that is similar to the SAM-R
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:09:20 PM EDT
Yeah, the terminology gremlins at work again.

The USMC Designated Marksman concept came out in the 90s and was initially what it's name inplies. It led to the DMR which is an accurized M14. But, it ended up morphing into a specific tool for EOD, Secuirty Forces/FAST, although some DMRs have filtered down to other units from time to time. Since the DM/DMR concept got hijacked, the Squad Advanced Marksman (SAM)concept was born around the turn of the century (sounds pretty cool to write that referring to jsut a few years ago). The SAM is basically the best shot in the squad, is supposed to get extra training in marksmanship, ballistics, and observation, and is equipped with the newer SAM-R.

I can't really comment on Army programs or weapons.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 10:06:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Yeah, the terminology gremlins at work again.

The USMC Designated Marksman concept came out in the 90s and was initially what it's name inplies. It led to the DMR which is an accurized M14. But, it ended up morphing into a specific tool for EOD, Secuirty Forces/FAST, although some DMRs have filtered down to other units from time to time. Since the DM/DMR concept got hijacked, the Squad Advanced Marksman (SAM)concept was born around the turn of the century (sounds pretty cool to write that referring to jsut a few years ago). The SAM is basically the best shot in the squad, is supposed to get extra training in marksmanship, ballistics, and observation, and is equipped with the newer SAM-R.

I can't really comment on Army programs or weapons.



lol, i wish it always worked out like that.... being a boot in my squad though makes someone else the SAM..... even though I'm the best shot- go figure.... lol

-Roth
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 10:30:39 PM EDT
Can't buy (or equip) skill. I've outshot decked out AR15s with ACOGs/Aimpoints with a bone stock M14. If you rely on your equipment rather than training with what you've got, I'd say you'll end up on the losing end. [/rant]

A shot to the head with .223 from an M4 or a SAM-R/DMR(okay, that's a .308)/.22 lr will still result in the desired affect. YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 11:40:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Yeah, the terminology gremlins at work again.

The USMC Designated Marksman concept came out in the 90s and was initially what it's name inplies. It led to the DMR which is an accurized M14. But, it ended up morphing into a specific tool for EOD, Secuirty Forces/FAST, although some DMRs have filtered down to other units from time to time. Since the DM/DMR concept got hijacked, the Squad Advanced Marksman (SAM)concept was born around the turn of the century (sounds pretty cool to write that referring to jsut a few years ago). The SAM is basically the best shot in the squad, is supposed to get extra training in marksmanship, ballistics, and observation, and is equipped with the newer SAM-R.

I can't really comment on Army programs or weapons.



lol, i wish it always worked out like that.... being a boot in my squad though makes someone else the SAM..... even though I'm the best shot- go figure.... lol

-Roth



I take it you're the SAW gunner?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:26:32 PM EDT
lol... not for long, i'm moving up to my plt. RTO... oohrah target!

hahaha

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:34:11 PM EDT
A SAW gunner AND a Norwich cadet!

Ack!

J/k, I'm a Citadel grad, so i had to get the dig in.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:31:38 PM EDT
I just got new M16A2's in my arms room, and my unit just returned from Iraq & Afghanistan. Were also one of the last units getting the RFI issue to include the M68 (aimpoints) sights and elcans for our 249's. At least they issued the ACH's.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:44:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I just got new M16A2's in my arms room, and my unit just returned from Iraq & Afghanistan. Were also one of the last units getting the RFI issue to include the M68 (aimpoints) sights and elcans for our 249's. At least they issued the ACH's.



ACH? Is that the MICH helmet?

Don't feel undergunned with the A2, it's a perfectly good rifle. And, NEW is always nice, that way, at least you know some knucklhead hasn't had the chance to fu**-up the crown of the barrel trying to get the muzzle nice and clean with a section of cleaning rod!

The optics are nice. When I deployed a couple years ago, we were just starting to see optics pushed down, and they were mostly piece-meal and crack deals the BN Gunner was able to hook up.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:27:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I just got new M16A2's in my arms room, and my unit just returned from Iraq & Afghanistan. Were also one of the last units getting the RFI issue to include the M68 (aimpoints) sights and elcans for our 249's. At least they issued the ACH's.



ACH? Is that the MICH helmet?

Don't feel undergunned with the A2, it's a perfectly good rifle. And, NEW is always nice, that way, at least you know some knucklhead hasn't had the chance to fu**-up the crown of the barrel trying to get the muzzle nice and clean with a section of cleaning rod!

The optics are nice. When I deployed a couple years ago, we were just starting to see optics pushed down, and they were mostly piece-meal and crack deals the BN Gunner was able to hook up.



I had the complete RFI issue at Fort Hood, but coming back to Schofield Barracks was like going back in time a couple years. I got here too late, but it still doesnt explain why A2's were ordered when the M16A4 has been issued for a number of years already. Looks like SGT Franklins gotta square away another unit...
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:29:19 AM EDT
No, its the Advanced Combat Helmet. We got them from RFI too. Kickass kevlar. 4 point suspension, lower profile (dont like that part - I stand in the turret of the HMMWV, I like having that little extra over the base of skull and forehead.) and a hell of alot lighter.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:08:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JSteensen:
No, its the Advanced Combat Helmet. We got them from RFI too. Kickass kevlar. 4 point suspension, lower profile (dont like that part - I stand in the turret of the HMMWV, I like having that little extra over the base of skull and forehead.) and a hell of alot lighter.



The ACH2000 is the big army's name for what the Marine Corps and the Special Ops community called the MICH, Modular, Integrated Communications Helmet. The original was made by MSA Gallet, but now there are like 3 makers.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:33:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
A SAW gunner AND a Norwich cadet!

Ack!

J/k, I'm a Citadel grad, so i had to get the dig in.



bwahahahaha..... you'll have that ya know...


nf9648: who you with here on HI?

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 11:07:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
A SAW gunner AND a Norwich cadet!

Ack!

J/k, I'm a Citadel grad, so i had to get the dig in.



bwahahahaha..... you'll have that ya know...


nf9648: who you with here on HI?

-Roth


I work on Wheeler, C 25th AVN Regt.
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