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Posted: 5/1/2002 1:45:50 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm convinced enought that I'll see it get to that point within my lifetime that I've been making minimum payments on my student loans and using the extra cash to round out the collection.
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Posted: 5/1/2002 1:45:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Good topic, good question.
I put it at 50-100 years, at least. There is just too much political resistance to do it quickly. If anything was going to convince the masses to give up their guns, it would have been Columbine. I don't remember the toll from the Port Arthur, AUS shooting, but most guns were banned and collected in UNDER 10 DAYS after that shooting. That didn't happen here. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:13:13 PM EDT
[#3]
I am not sure it will ever happen, but it certainly won't happen in my lifetime.
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:15:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Good topic, good question. I put it at 50-100 years, at least. There is just too much political resistance to do it quickly. If anything was going to convince the masses to give up their guns, it would have been Columbine. I don't remember the toll from the Port Arthur, AUS shooting, but most guns were banned and collected in UNDER 10 DAYS after that shooting. That didn't happen here. Wonder what event(s) it would take for outright confiscation to begin here in the good 'ol USA? |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:21:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Wonder what event(s) it would take for outright confiscation to begin here in the good 'ol USA? I assume you're talking about nationally, Arock, because it's already happening on the state (CA) and local (Chicago) level. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:21:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Arock, no tellin. It will be bad, though.
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:21:48 PM EDT
[#7]
20-50 years, tops.
First they must pass some kind of registration and licensing. I expect this to continue piecemeal by State, as the Second Amendment is not incorporated under the 14th - the States are free to violate the Second Amendment. I do hold out hope that a Second Amendment case will make it before the Supreme Court and that glaring error will be rectified. If it is, I put the date between 50 and 100 years. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:23:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Wonder what event(s) it would take for outright confiscation to begin here in the good 'ol USA? I assume you're talking about nationally, Arock, because it's already happening on the state (CA) and local (Chicago) level. Correct. What I mean to ask is what would it take to precipitate a situation similar to Australia where all firearms were scooped up in 7-10 days and nobody resisted. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:25:50 PM EDT
[#9]
While I am quite sure my son will, with the proper paperwork and permits, be able to obtain a black powder muzzleloader as is written in the second amendment... I am equally sure he will not be able to purchase black powder or percussion caps.
With that in mind... I am collecting for him. I wish I had as nice a collection when I was three [:D]. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:29:25 PM EDT
[#10]
This is why there's a Build-It-Yourself forum:
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?id=4[/url] |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:31:16 PM EDT
[#11]
First they must pass some kind of registration and licensing. I expect this to continue piecemeal by State, as the Second Amendment is not incorporated under the 14th - the States are free to violate the Second Amendment.
You know, I thought one of the fed jobs was to protect all of our rights under the constitution.(Even against the States) |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:34:09 PM EDT
[#12]
In the past 20 years we've experienced a rapid [u]acceleration[/u] of our rights being eroded. Kids are brainwashed in schools to by hysterically afraid of guns and are TAUGHT that all guns are "bad". We are flooded daily with immigrunts (legal and illegal) who have no cultural history of private gun ownership and who vote away OUR gun rights. We have more and more Draconian Federal laws that allow the confiscation of guns for paltry misdemeanors you committed 20 years ago. Then we have the outright but unchecked violations of the 2nd Amendment by legislatures, Governors, Judges, Mayors and other entrenched civil servants in the form of Laws, verdicts, zoning restrictions and other edicts passed with little or no resistance from "our side". I'd give it 20-25years... tops. Posts like this make me want to visit [url=http://www.ammoman.com/]Ammoman[/url] pronto! |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:43:23 PM EDT
[#13]
On a side note, being a Texan I always felt a certain camaraderie with folks from Australia. They too started as outcasts from society and faced similar hardships as our forefathers. Forges a certain strength of character to those who survived.
So it came as a disappointing surprise when the firearms ban in Australia happened. Liberal politicians and all, I never expected Australians to have handed their firearms over so quickly and easily. Like I say I was really disillusioned at the easy compliance. Makes me worry about our strength of resolve if the established powers find an event so compelling that they feel confident in demanding our guns. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:45:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I am not sure it will ever happen, but it certainly won't happen in my lifetime. AGREED |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 2:58:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Remember in NYC you already can't have a pistol unless you are connected, can't have an assault rifle and have to jump through a lot of hoops to have a longgun.
I suspect that in urban/suburban areas in the more liberal areas of the country i.e. the west coast and northeast, pistols may be impossible to get permits to carry & "assault rifles" will be outlawed. I don't think there will be attempts to take away guns, but if you don't already have them you aren't going to get them. Eventually those of us who have them and grew up with them will die off. None of my sister's children (ages 8-16) have ever seen a real firearm, except maybe a policeman's pistol, and certainly never fired one. They have grown up in the suburbs with their playtime centered around sports-soccer mostly- cable tv, video games, the mall and the computer. None of them have probably ever spent a whole night in the woods and maybe have never even seen a night sky with no background man made illumination. I suspect the next step will be restricting the ownership of semiautomatic firearms but lever action, bolt action, pump guns will not be restricted outside of NYC/Boston/LA/SF in the next 100 years. I would also bet on bullet taxes, EPA regulation of outdoor firing ranges, the nipping away of areas where one can carry a gun (i.e. bars & government buildings first, then churches schools malls) until carrying is too great of an annoyance to bother with. Don't worry tho, hopefully by then I will have my island in the tropics and you can all come shoot there. [:D] |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 3:08:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Arms are an extension of our arms, we will always have them in some fashion. God, only knows how they will evolve!
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Posted: 5/1/2002 3:16:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: First they must pass some kind of registration and licensing. I expect this to continue piecemeal by State, as the Second Amendment is not incorporated under the 14th - the States are free to violate the Second Amendment. You know, I thought one of the fed jobs was to protect all of our rights under the constitution.(Even against the States) Doesn't that just [i]piss you off?[/i] |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 3:18:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: On a side note, being a Texan I always felt a certain camaraderie with folks from Australia. They too started as outcasts from society and faced similar hardships as our forefathers. Forges a certain strength of character to those who survived. So it came as a disappointing surprise when the firearms ban in Australia happened. Liberal politicians and all, I never expected Australians to have handed their firearms over so quickly and easily. Like I say I was really disillusioned at the easy compliance. Makes me worry about our strength of resolve if the established powers find an event so compelling that they feel confident in demanding our guns. Arock, I don't believe the compliance was easy or at least not wholesale compliance. Many of the out-back Aussies buried their guns. Now how would I know this. There was a brief mention of a PVC end-cap shortage among Aussie plumbers. Finally a reporter (got to give him credit for thinking) put it together. The Aussies were buying relatively short lengths of PVC pipe and a non proportionate number of end-caps thus creating the shortage. The same thing happened in Australia will happen here. The 'sheeple' living in the cities wanted the guns gone so they would be safe. Those living in the outback did not. More sheeple in the cities. No more legal guns. There are T-shirts showing the area carried by the Dimocrats and Republicans in the last election. Many of us are very proud of what that T-shirt depicts but what it actually forecasts is the beginning of the end for gun owners. We will carry the American outback but the sheeple will carry the cities. More folks in cities than in our outback. Oh, probably one more generation of guns as we know them. (I must add that further terriorists attacks will delay the coming gun grab.) |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 3:32:21 PM EDT
[#19]
You know, I thought one of the fed jobs was to protect all of our rights under the constitution.(Even against the States)[/quote]All of the "rights of the people" guaranteed by the Bill of Rights - with the notable exception of the Second Amendment. Even the 3rd Amendment (housing of soldiers) has been incorporated under the 14th Amendment (by an Appeals Court decision.) Only the Second has not. Thanks to the [i]U.S. v. Cruikshank[/i] decision shortly after the Civil War. Doesn't that just [i]piss you off?[/i][/quote] So the 14th nullified the 2nd. Then rickyj and the Dems have a valid argument? |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 3:57:34 PM EDT
[#20]
I hope our leaders watch the outcome of the Australian weapons ban. If history is any guide the crime rate will not drop much if at all. The bad guys will continue to have guns. Murder will not cease.
I hope we learn from Australia's mistake. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 3:58:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: On a side note, being a Texan I always felt a certain camaraderie with folks from Australia. They too started as outcasts from society and faced similar hardships as our forefathers. Forges a certain strength of character to those who survived. So it came as a disappointing surprise when the firearms ban in Australia happened. Liberal politicians and all, I never expected Australians to have handed their firearms over so quickly and easily. Like I say I was really disillusioned at the easy compliance. Makes me worry about our strength of resolve if the established powers find an event so compelling that they feel confident in demanding our guns. I don't think the Australian constitution guarantees the right to bare arms. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 4:02:29 PM EDT
[#22]
The end is near and the sky [i]is[/i] falling.
No really. At the rate things are going I would say 20 years or so. From behind enemy lines... |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 4:13:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: You know, I thought one of the fed jobs was to protect all of our rights under the constitution.(Even against the States) Doesn't that just [i]piss you off?[/i] So the 14th nullified the 2nd. Then rickyj and the Dems have a valid argument? You misunderstand. (Something that I keep trying to get BOTH sides of the argument to follow.) The 14th Amendment was passed as a result of laws written immediately after the 13th Amendment freed the slaves. The laws, known as "The Black Codes" prohibited the freedmen most of their rights as citizens - rights spelled out in detail in the pre-war [i]Dred Scott[/i] decision as "priviledges and immunities of citizens". The 14th Amendment said that the "priviledges and immunities" of ALL citizens were to be protected by the Federal government. Subsequent Supreme Court and Appeals Court decisions "incorporated" the "rights of the people" protected under the Bill of Rights under the umbrella of Federal protection via the power of the 14th Amendment. Unfortunately, the [i]Cruikshank[/i] decision, immediately after passage of the 14th Amendment, [i]denied[/i] incorporation of the 2nd Amendment. And it's the only one that has been denied. Essentially because of racism, IMHO. The 14th didn't [i]nullify[/i] the 2nd, it's [i]not been applied to it[/i]. And it needs to be. Unfortunately, the [i]Emerson[/i] decision had to do with a [i]Federal[/i] law, so the 14th Amendment couldn't even be brought up. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 4:18:26 PM EDT
[#24]
I am with you, but the 2nd still exist.
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Posted: 5/1/2002 4:18:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Correct. What I mean to ask is what would it take to precipitate a situation similar to Australia where all firearms were scooped up in 7-10 days and nobody resisted. Another "Stockton schoolyard" or Luby's Massacre, probably. They are usually the catalyst for ambitious projects like you describe. The Dunblaine shooting in Scotland was the death knell for the Brits. As far as nobody resisting... If my guns in my hands weren't involved in the shooting, then any comparison and causal relationship drawn between them would be false, and therefore so would any conclusions, legislative or otherwise. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 4:23:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I am with you, but the 2nd still exist. But what good is it if the [u]States[/u] are free to violate it? If, as the [i]Cruikshank[/i] decision declared, only [i]Congress[/i] can't infringe? I keep hoping someone will finally successfully challenge a California, Illinois, or Maryland infringement and finally we'll get an incorporation decision. When that happens, the excrement will hit the air-moving device, because a [i]whole bunch[/i] of restrictive laws will go out the window. I want a [i]Brown v. Board of Education[/i] decision for gun rights. |
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Posted: 5/1/2002 4:58:47 PM EDT
[#27]
With that in mind... I am collecting for him. I wish I had as nice a collection when I was three [:D]. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: I am not sure it will ever happen, but it certainly won't happen in my lifetime. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AGREED I agree on both accounts. My two-year old has one hell of a collection going. I really feel that most gun-owners in America are at a boiling point. I'm not sure what the hell has been happening in KA, MA, and Chicago. If we would just stand united DAMN IT then this stuff won't happen. The Gov't keeps getting these laws passed because there is very little opposition. We need to unite and we need to fight. |
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