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Posted: 8/6/2005 11:53:40 AM EDT
I have some money saved up and I was thinking of buying a good bolt action rifle. The only thing is that I don't know what caliber to get? Now I want something that is a good flat trajectory for long range shots but has the power to take down all north American game and not mess the meat up on a deer but it could take down an elk if I wanted it to.


A friend of mine said to look at the 300 win mag but he is a sniper and he loves his 300 win mag. I had a 30-06 but it does not have the trajectory that I want. Any advice would help thanks.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 11:56:14 AM EDT
the 30.06 isnt doing it for you? it is hotter than a .308 and I've used a .308 to make hits on targets out to 950 meters. you can also reload the 30.06 a decent bit hotter than commercial loads to get even more range out of it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:07:42 PM EDT
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:07:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
the 30.06 isnt doing it for you? it is hotter than a .308 and I've used a .308 to make hits on targets out to 950 meters. you can also reload the 30.06 a decent bit hotter than commercial loads to get even more range out of it.




I also for got to sa that I'd like to use this as a long range target rifle and if need be a sniper rifle. Dont know if that changes anything. When I shot my 700 30-06 it was opening up at about 800 meters. I like the 308 also but does it have the power to knock down an elk at 800 meters? I'v taken things out up to 1800 meters with the 240 Golf mostly targets. I know it will take down a man easy at 1000 meters I'v done that the only thing that worries me is when it gets to something like and elk will it still have the knock down power?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:08:26 PM EDT
um i would have said get a 06..............there the best damn round out there but sense you dont like that go for the 300. the runner up for power and range.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:10:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.



But moving to IL or Tenn in about a year and plane on doing some elk hunting soon.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:11:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tayous1:

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.



But moving to IL or Tenn in about a year and plane on doing some elk hunting soon.



there are elk in TN and IL?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:13:36 PM EDT
Common? .308

Less common? .243
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 12:15:32 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By tayous1:
I like the 308 also but does it have the power to knock down an elk at 800 meters? I'v taken things out up to 1800 meters with the 240 Golf mostly targets.



I guess I may as well be the one to inject some reality into this.

Learn to hunt and get closer.

I'll bet my left nut that you cannot put your first, cold bore shot into an area 24" in diameter (about the size of the elk's vitals), each time, every time. I don't give a fuck how far you've sprayed lead from a machine gun.

All this talk about knocking an elk down at 800 meters is BULLSHIT.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:16:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anteverius:

Originally Posted By tayous1:

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.



But moving to IL or Tenn in about a year and plane on doing some elk hunting soon.



there are elk in TN and IL?



there are elk in KY and Tn - reintroduced a few years back, competing with the whitetail herd. Interesting.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:16:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tayous1:
I also for got to sa that I'd like to use this as a long range target rifle and if need be a sniper rifle. Dont know if that changes anything. When I shot my 700 30-06 it was opening up at about 800 meters. I like the 308 also but does it have the power to knock down an elk at 800 meters? I'v taken things out up to 1800 meters with the 240 Golf mostly targets. I know it will take down a man easy at 1000 meters I'v done that the only thing that worries me is when it gets to something like and elk will it still have the knock down power?



30.06 can be used to great effect as a long range round, it is arguably the most versatile .30 caliber cartridge out there. the groups opening up at 800 is probably due to the rifle or the loads you were using, or both. a good precision rifle with quality match loads in 30.06 should be able to do anything you want. and honestly do you really think you are going to be taking shots at elk at 800 meters? granted, that range would be pushing it for most rounds short of the really long range stuff(.338 lapua, .50bmg, etc...)

what model 700 do you have?

Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:17:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By Anteverius:

Originally Posted By tayous1:

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.



But moving to IL or Tenn in about a year and plane on doing some elk hunting soon.



there are elk in TN and IL?



there are elk in KY and Tn - reintroduced a few years back, competing with the whitetail herd. Interesting.



wow...i did not know that.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:17:53 PM EDT
How about a 7mm Rem Mag? From what I've read, it has a pretty flat trajectory and enough foot-pounds necessary to bring down most large game North American animals, BUT it is not all that common such as 223Rem, 308Win, & 30-06.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:19:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
How about a 7mm Rem Mag? From what I've read, it has a pretty flat trajectory and enough foot-pounds necessary to bring down most large game North American animals, BUT it is not all that common such as 223Rem, 308Win, & 30-06.



7mag is a great round, but the bullets are a bit on the light side when it comes to elk.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By warlord:
How about a 7mm Rem Mag? From what I've read, it has a pretty flat trajectory and enough foot-pounds necessary to bring down most large game North American animals, BUT it is not all that common such as 223Rem, 308Win, & 30-06.



7mag is a great round, but the bullets are a bit on the light side when it comes to elk.



Not a premium like a Nosler Partition or Swift A Frame around 175 grains.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:20:55 PM EDT
I am partial to the 308
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:21:33 PM EDT
i have to concur that if your taking shots at 800 yards at a elk you should be beat with the garden hose. learn how to stalk and get closer, shooting that far is just dumb.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:22:47 PM EDT
30-06 is about it. I mean, no one caliber is gonna do EVERYTHING but the 30-06 will be really close. Taking an elk , a hunter doesn't need huge magnums . How far are you planning on shooting one? Your not really hunting if your shooting 500 yds or so. That is sniping.
The .300 WM is a great caliber but it has it's limits also as does every caliber.
Your not gonna find a caliber that does everything.
Now,if you didn't know, the 30-06 can be handloaded down to take varmints and can be loaded up to take grizzly. A 220 gr. Nosler partition will handle anything in North America and most parts of the world. Whatever you decide on, practice is going to be your best friend. And I don't mean practice from a bench. Certainly that will get you started, but you will need to practice off-hand,kneeling and prone. Good luck
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:23:46 PM EDT
30-06
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:26:58 PM EDT
Besides... if John C Garand thought it was good enough for his rifle, who are you to argue?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:28:11 PM EDT
Now I've read the part about shooting at elk at 800 yds. Your not a hunter. Hunters don't snipe at animals,much less one they are trying to take humanely. Shooting at animals like you said you have done is what gives hunters a bad name amongst the non-hunting crowd.
Great, thanks a lot. We don't have enough working against us already.
And what is a 240 Golf??
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:28:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 12:29:47 PM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
30-06


Inquiring mind(s) wants to know, is 30-06 powerful enough for elk? And at what distance?

BTW: tayous1 welcome home, back from the Iraq?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:30:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 12:43:42 PM EDT by SteelonSteel]
If you want to do the ethical thing you need to "hunt" your game. The animal isn't a piece of paper that gets a bad score.

Get closer, stalk use terrain and cover. This is part of the fun. Your .30-06 springfield is more than enough gun. Most guides wouldn't let you take a shot over 300 yards let alone 800. The elk is a tough animal you want that energy it at 800 yards you will have less of it. 10-12 inches of penetration is one thing for snipers on humans , 10 inches ain't much on game in an imperfect world. Practice shooting from field positions not a bench and not with a target sling. Practice with a hasty sling or a military sling. I'd bet 800 yards won't seem like an easy shot then. At least your asking the question before and not after, asking why your elk jumped and you never found it.

PS If you're trying to justify another gun, don't bother, just buy it and justify it later! A .270 Win is a great choice but not mine for elk, a 7mm Magnum would be better, try an ultra mag if you want in .30 cal, beware though they do blast, it didn't sound like you were looking for a cannon to me. Personally I'd use a .300 Win mag because I have one. If I was hunting in woodlands and not in the open I'd feel well armed with a .308 or .30-06 with a good bullet; partition or bear claw.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:31:02 PM EDT
i would either get a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range or a gun similar to that used by Al Pacino in Heat.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:34:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Besides... if John C Garand thought it was good enough for his rifle, who are you to argue?



John Garand didnt think 30.06 was good enough for his rifle, the war department made him rechamber to 30.06 to keep compatability with the 1903 rifle.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:37:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anteverius:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By Anteverius:

Originally Posted By tayous1:

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.



But moving to IL or Tenn in about a year and plane on doing some elk hunting soon.



there are elk in TN and IL?



there are elk in KY and Tn - reintroduced a few years back, competing with the whitetail herd. Interesting.



wow...i did not know that.



The KY herd is thriving and there is Elk hunting in Eastern KY.

Elk have been transplanted back in to the Smoky Mountains though that might never lead to a herd you can hunt.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:37:51 PM EDT
ive killed 2 elk with my 270 with one shots. your 06 is all you need.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:40:46 PM EDT
.300 Win Mag is my favorite cartridge, too...after .223/5.56. A similar-ballistically-cartridge is the 7mm Rem Mag.

HH
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:51:52 PM EDT
I've got a 300 Win Mag, and I wish I had 308 Winchester
If you're looking to kill BIG animals just step up to a 165-180 grain Barnes bullet for it. You should be able to bag anything in NA but a Grizzly with it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 12:56:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:16:16 PM EDT by anachronism]
If your rifle doesn't have enough power to suit you at your desired range, select a caliber that does, and pay the money to have a custom rifle built to suit your needs. I'd be amazed if a production rifle would do all you're asking of it. Plus, you need to handload to suit your different requirements, and test your loads at each different range you intend to shoot. As far as caliber selection goes, how much energy do you expect you'll need at your maximum range, maybe 1500 ft/lb for an elk? Using Hornady's 180 gr. BTSP, you'll need a muzzle velocity of approximately 3200 fps. This is an ambitious project for a 300 Weatherby, this will take everything the cartridge has to give, maybe more. Top loads in the 300 Ultra Mag might get you there, as would the 300/378 Weatherby. These loads would be gross overkill on a 50 yard whitetail. I suggest you re-evaluate your priorities a bit, and consider a caliber/load/rifle that will do well at the ranges you actually intend to hunt. And I'll be amazed if you find a production rifle that will suit your intended purpose.

Ask these guys what to buy, they'll know what works.

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

(edited to add link)
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:09:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:10:52 PM EDT by DrFrige]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Besides... if John C Garand thought it was good enough for his rifle, who are you to argue?



John Garand didnt think 30.06 was good enough for his rifle, the war department made him rechamber to 30.06 to keep compatability with the 1903 rifle.



Dont like you anymore!

see now I learned something new today! Thanks.

ETA: So what did Garand chamber his rifle for originally?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:14:26 PM EDT
.260 Remington will cover your bases.


90 grain bullets will cover any coyote/varmint that needs killing

120 grain bullets lay the smack down on deer/coyotes

140 grain bullets take care of your elk and bear needs.



Granted, it hasn't the range of a .300 or 7mm belted magnums, but it isnt the powder eating drunk mule rifle either. .300's are fun, but for GP I want something I can shoot all the time and never tire of it. .260 is the ticket for me.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:15:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:16:21 PM EDT by TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Besides... if John C Garand thought it was good enough for his rifle, who are you to argue?



John Garand didnt think 30.06 was good enough for his rifle, the war department made him rechamber to 30.06 to keep compatability with the 1903 rifle.



Dont like you anymore!

see now I learned something new today! Thanks.

ETA: So what did Garand chamber his rifle for originally?



it was an experimental .276 caliber round
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:17:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IchWarrior:
.260 Remington will cover your bases.


90 grain bullets will cover any coyote/varmint that needs killing

120 grain bullets lay the smack down on deer/coyotes

140 grain bullets take care of your elk and bear needs.



Granted, it hasn't the range of a .300 or 7mm belted magnums, but it isnt the powder eating drunk mule rifle either. .300's are fun, but for GP I want something I can shoot all the time and never tire of it. .260 is the ticket for me.



At 800 yards?

Bob
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:20:35 PM EDT
.308 is a fantastic all-around cartridge and would be well suited for a person who could only have 1 rifle. .30-06 has 99.9% of the same things going for it as .308 has, but I would give the nod to .308 for its slight accuracy advantage. .300 Win mag is a great caliber and has much going for it, but depending on the rifle it is used in, recoil can be harsh, and ammo availability/price is an issue.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:24:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:26:14 PM EDT by leo6223]
Ahh, a gun releated topic.

Anyway, if multi use is the most important thing then without a doubt the venerable .308

You can hunt medium to large game, plink with modest cost, and target shoot with extreme accuracy out to 500 yards (and out to 1000 but I wouldn't use the word "extreme accuracy" at that range with any thing other than the high end power houses).

It's also not too rough on recoil.

Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:25:12 PM EDT
There's a reason 30-06 has been popular for a century.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:25:54 PM EDT
If I wanted a 3 rifle battery that would allow me to hunt anything in the world, I would get a .22 rimfire, a 30.06 and a 375 H&H. Limited to one caliber to hunt all North American Game I would chose a .338 Win Mag. Of course my decision in influenced by where I live and the big tourist eatin bears that I occasionally run into.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:27:28 PM EDT
300 win mag? psssh 50bmg
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:34:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKJD:
If I wanted a 3 rifle battery that would allow me to hunt anything in the world, I would get a .22 rimfire, a 30.06 and a 375 H&H. Limited to one caliber to hunt all North American Game I would chose a .338 Win Mag. Of course my decision in influenced by where I live and the big tourist eatin bears that I occasionally run into.



I'm working on the same thing, but I'm going metric for the centerfires: 6.5X55 and 9.3X62.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:41:24 PM EDT
.270. Power of the 30-06, but flatter shooting.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:48:40 PM EDT by jasondcrum]

Originally Posted By coondog:
Now I've read the part about shooting at elk at 800 yds. Your not a hunter. Hunters don't snipe at animals,much less one they are trying to take humanely. Shooting at animals like you said you have done is what gives hunters a bad name amongst the non-hunting crowd.
Great, thanks a lot. We don't have enough working against us already.
And what is a 240 Golf??

A 30 caliber Minimi/M249 SAW


AGNTSA

Come out to W Texas and 'stalk' your deer. Your TN, NY KY, etc... hunts are a different game. I wouldn't think twice for taking a 300-400 yard shot where I hunt unless the wind is up. Thats why you see a lot of 300 Win, 300 Weatherby, 300 UM, 7mm UM guns for smaller deer here in the west Texas hunting scene.


Go with the .30-06 I have a stack of books and reference material that define the caliber as the hands down most flexible caliber out today. The federal government conducted a study that showed in closer range situations (attacks) the 06 had better lethality on bear rather than the bigger calibers. (I see a lot of guides carrying one as well) I can't remember the theory as to why the 06 worked better in < 100 yds on large game.. I will have to dig up the article off my other PC.

If you want to hunt long range get a .300 Weatherby or a .300 Win mag. Long shots are impressive if you make them and subjective if you miss. I enjoy long range game hunting- just bring the right equipment and plenty of skill and practice.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:43:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 1:47:51 PM EDT by CAM_PIN]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
ETA: So what did Garand chamber his rifle for originally?



It was .276 Pederson. That round would have enabled 10 rounds to fit into the en-bloc clip.

ETA: We have come the full circle and are back to a caliber that Garand envisioned for the M1 rifle, as far as projectile diameter is concerned. The .276 Pederson is .270 caliber, as well as the 6.8 SPC. Coincidence?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 1:44:47 PM EDT
If it's N.A. and you can't kill it with a 30-06, you shouldn't be shooting at it!
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:00:23 PM EDT
.30 cal of nineteen ought six.


If that ain't doing it for you, you should probably practice some more.



I get a kick out of all these hunting rags talking about .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua for deer hunting and all that jazz..
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:05:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jasondcrum:

Originally Posted By coondog:
Now I've read the part about shooting at elk at 800 yds. Your not a hunter. Hunters don't snipe at animals,much less one they are trying to take humanely. Shooting at animals like you said you have done is what gives hunters a bad name amongst the non-hunting crowd.
Great, thanks a lot. We don't have enough working against us already.
And what is a 240 Golf??

A 30 caliber Minimi/M249 SAW




no it isnt, it is a totally different weapon system. the M240 is the US military designation for our form of the FN MAG-58 GPMG. it was used first as a coaxial machine gun for tanks and AFVs, then became our standard medium machinegun.

Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:06:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tayous1:

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:
Ya, but your here in California. Most game, except bear, can be taken with a .223, but I have a lot of respect for the .308 and .30-06.

Plus .223/.308/.30-06 are available just about anywhere.



But moving to IL or Tenn in about a year and plane on doing some elk hunting soon.



Don't even be thinking of shooting the elk in Tennessee.
It's your hide that would be nailed up on the barn door.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:10:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:10:56 PM EDT
.270, 30-06, .308, 7mm.

300win mag is overkill
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:14:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
here in the southeast forrests you will be damned lucky to see any game outside 200 meters let alone get a shot. most are taken here under 100yrds.

for what you have listed as needs 30-06 would be my choice followed closely by 308.

mike



But, but, he's gonna shoot an elk at 800 meters?!?!

What a doofus.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 2:21:45 PM EDT
Multi-use? meaning everything from rabbits to Kodiaks and elephants? 50 BMG is the only way to go. It gets both rabbits and elephants.
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