I went to the range on Saturday and as you all may know deer season is right around the corner so it had a large abount of guys sighting in for this years hunt. I sit down next to a gut shooting a 300 win mag, I say hello and then procede to get my self set up. He seemed like a nice guy until I pulled out my AR.  

I then get all the usual crap about those things (refering to my AR) is good for nothing but killing people and spray and pray. They are not nearly as acurate as as his deer rifle and blah blah blah something about a plastic gun and more blah blah blah. At this point I just start to ignore him and go about my stuff. I get set up and wait for the next target change to comearound to set up my targets the whole while this guy is still talking.

Target change comes around I get my stuff set up at 100yrds and this guy comes over with his target and says see this is how a REAL rifle shoots. I look at the target and see its sighted in for about 5 moa at best. I give the guy a nod of acknowledgement and then continue about my shooting.

I sit down and start shooting 3 shot groups nice and slow mean while this guy is still mouthing off. When the next target change comes around he starts packing up his stuff and I go get my targets. I come back and show him my targets and I am at about .45"moa. I then tell him not bad for spray and pray from a plastic gun, so how does a real gun soot again? with a rather anoyed look on his face he then started throwing his stuff in his bags and leaves while the RO and his buddies all have huge grins on their faces. After he left the RO walks up to me and says good show! I hate those kinda shooters.

Sorry about the long rant but what is it about these guys? Why do they need to say anything? Then when you show them how well it shoots they get all pissed? It gives me such joy to out shoot these guys and make them look stupid as often as I can.

Wow, sounds like a real dick....but unfortunately typical of some if not many hunters. Thats why I don't count them in the fight, they will send us down the river first chance they get....

You saw exactly why they hate EBRs. They hate being shown up, and they hate the cognitive dissonance generated by seeing that the AR does not represent a compromise between accuracy and ammo capacity, but is instead the apotheosis of rifle design. They especially hate the fact that the average 12 year-old can sit at a bench after 10 minutes of instruction and use an AR to match Mr. Fudd's "tack driver" shot for shot - until Elmer's rifle runs dry. Fudd spent a year looking at catalogs, 6 months drooling at the gun shop, and countless hours nursing fantasies of himself as "a mighty hunter before the Lord;" a latter-day Natty Bumppo; a simple, peaceable harvester of deer with the secret capacity to outshoot any sniper in the Marine Corps. He is embittered when he sees that at any range out to about 300 yards, a $1000 scope and 5 practice rounds a year will never beat a $600 rifle, iron sights, and 300 practice rounds every range day. He is, in short, an ill-informed twit who deliberately pours piss on his own clothing.

Good show!!!!

Quoted: Wow, sounds like a real dick....but unfortunately typical of some if not many hunters. Thats why I don't count them in the fight, they will send us down the river first chance they get....

Along with the (sniff, sniff....) English Shotgun crowd. Black rifles...not very sporting, old boy!

OWNED!!!!!!!!!

Quoted: You saw exactly why they hate EBRs. They hate being shown up, and they hate the cognitive dissonance generated by seeing that the AR does not represent a compromise between accuracy and ammo capacity, but is instead the apotheosis of rifle design. They especially hate the fact that the average 12 year-old can sit at a bench after 10 minutes of instruction and use an AR to match Mr. Fudd's "tack driver" shot for shot - until Elmer's rifle runs dry. Fudd spent a year looking at catalogs, 6 months drooling at the gun shop, and countless hours nursing fantasies of himself as "a mighty hunter before the Lord;" a latter-day Natty Bumppo; a simple, peaceable harvester of deer with the secret capacity to outshoot any sniper in the Marine Corps. He is embittered when he sees that at any range out to about 300 yards, a $1000 scope and 5 practice rounds a year will never beat a $600 rifle, iron sights, and 300 practice rounds every range day. He is, in short, an ill-informed twit who deliberately pours piss on his own clothing.

Can I use that on my website, with proper credit given to you?

My dad is an old deer hunter. He grins ear-to-ear while shooting my AR. All the guys I deer hunt with here love to shoot my AR. Some even own their own.


Please try not to stereotype a whole group based on your experience with one person from that group who suffers from a cranial-rectal inversion.

You should have had a Beta-C with you and gave him a brass shower

He is, in short, an ill-informed twit who deliberately pours piss on his own clothing.

That's funny!

Well thier biggest problem is that they haven't run into assholes like this out in the woods yet.

Good job Tippman, I usually go through the same thing at least once a year. First I do exactly what you did, then if they are sitting to my right I don't even try to keep them from getting a brass shower Last year it was a guide and two of his dudes, they were not happy

Quoted: Quoted: You saw exactly why they hate EBRs. They hate being shown up, and they hate the cognitive dissonance generated by seeing that the AR does not represent a compromise between accuracy and ammo capacity, but is instead the apotheosis of rifle design. They especially hate the fact that the average 12 year-old can sit at a bench after 10 minutes of instruction and use an AR to match Mr. Fudd's "tack driver" shot for shot - until Elmer's rifle runs dry. Fudd spent a year looking at catalogs, 6 months drooling at the gun shop, and countless hours nursing fantasies of himself as "a mighty hunter before the Lord;" a latter-day Natty Bumppo; a simple, peaceable harvester of deer with the secret capacity to outshoot any sniper in the Marine Corps. He is embittered when he sees that at any range out to about 300 yards, a $1000 scope and 5 practice rounds a year will never beat a $600 rifle, iron sights, and 300 practice rounds every range day. He is, in short, an ill-informed twit who deliberately pours piss on his own clothing. Can I use that on my website, with proper credit given to you?

Sure. Where's your website?

I had posted this in a different thread, seems appropriate here also.

Skill-at-arms is everybody's business. It is the proper concern of all free men. It cannot be left to the public sector. It must be encouraged in all areas, and at all levels. We do not have the luxury of saying "My type of shooting is more respectable than his." If we take that view, our adversaries will pick us off one discipline at a time. So let us never say that "black" guns are somewhat suspect, or that only double shotguns are sporting, or that rifles are acceptable, but pistols are not. As long as the shooter is respectable, his firearm is respectable. When he is not, neither is his weapon. Let us keep our focus where it belongs: on the perpetrator rather than upon his instrument. Let us firmly reject the concept that sport is legitimate, but fighting is not. Fighting in a just cause is all that keeps man free, and it is not the sole prerogative of the state. If it were, free states would never have arrived, nor could they survive. If we live in an age of imagery, let us concentrate upon the image of responsibility, decency, courage, competence, and good citizenship. To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth. Jeff Cooper

Quoted: You saw exactly why they hate EBRs. They hate being shown up, and they hate the cognitive dissonance generated by seeing that the AR does not represent a compromise between accuracy and ammo capacity, but is instead the apotheosis of rifle design. They especially hate the fact that the average 12 year-old can sit at a bench after 10 minutes of instruction and use an AR to match Mr. Fudd's "tack driver" shot for shot - until Elmer's rifle runs dry. Fudd spent a year looking at catalogs, 6 months drooling at the gun shop, and countless hours nursing fantasies of himself as "a mighty hunter before the Lord;" a latter-day Natty Bumppo; a simple, peaceable harvester of deer with the secret capacity to outshoot any sniper in the Marine Corps. He is embittered when he sees that at any range out to about 300 yards, a $1000 scope and 5 practice rounds a year will never beat a $600 rifle, iron sights, and 300 practice rounds every range day. He is, in short, an ill-informed twit who deliberately pours piss on his own clothing.

You aint from around here ar ya?

Quoted: My dad is an old deer hunter. He grins ear-to-ear while shooting my AR. All the guys I deer hunt with here love to shoot my AR. Some even own their own. Please try not to stereotype a whole group based on your experience with one person from that group who suffers from a cranial-rectal inversion.

Sorry about that as you are right. I did not mean to lump all the deer hunters in one group. I do know there are such hunters out there like your self and your father. I will change the wording of my post in an atempt to un lump you and our kind from that Specific "group".

"... only for killing people."

Reply:  "You are damned right.  Some people need killin'."

Besides, what do you care what he thinks?  You didn't ask for his opinion, and he didn't ask for yours.

Quoted: Quoted: My dad is an old deer hunter. He grins ear-to-ear while shooting my AR. All the guys I deer hunt with here love to shoot my AR. Some even own their own. Please try not to stereotype a whole group based on your experience with one person from that group who suffers from a cranial-rectal inversion. Sorry about that as you are right. I did not mean to lump all the deer hunters in one group. I do know there are such hunters out there like your self and your father. I will change the wording of my post in an atempt to un lump you and our kind from that Specific "group".

Thank you sir. You are a better man than most.

BTW, I am glad you showed up the asshat. All groups have a few, and they need put in their place.

I noticed most of you so far are out west or in the liberal states. I have been in several different hunting clubs and all the hunters I know thought my different AR, AK, and SKS firearms were cool and fun when I let them shoot them. Many hunters I know also have antique or military type firearms as well so I have yet to run into this snobbish hunter type you all mention, at least not down here in North Florida/South Georgia. Of course I've never fired any of my rifles at a public or private range near a large city either, always used hunting club ranges or our own private land so I haven't had the pleasure of encountering these individuals I do not doubt their existence one bit though.

It's the "feed the lion your limbs to save the body" theory, I heard the same thing about Harley riders from the AMA Honda rider types when all the bike laws where getting passed back in the 70s and 80s.

I don't know if it's just old guys.  I think it runs from young to old.  It's just that old ones are crabbier and more inclined to spout off since they don't think you'd punch out an elder.  

Most old hunters I know can shoot the nuts off a gnat at 100 yards using the iron sights on a lever action 30-30.  Guess it depends on the 'old guy.'

Whats the calculation for the distance on how far you are off. Such as you are 5 inches off at 100yrds how far will you be off at 200 and 300 and so on?

Quoted: You saw exactly why they hate EBRs. They hate being shown up, and they hate the cognitive dissonance generated by seeing that the AR does not represent a compromise between accuracy and ammo capacity, but is instead the apotheosis of rifle design. They especially hate the fact that the average 12 year-old can sit at a bench after 10 minutes of instruction and use an AR to match Mr. Fudd's "tack driver" shot for shot - until Elmer's rifle runs dry. Fudd spent a year looking at catalogs, 6 months drooling at the gun shop, and countless hours nursing fantasies of himself as "a mighty hunter before the Lord;" a latter-day Natty Bumppo; a simple, peaceable harvester of deer with the secret capacity to outshoot any sniper in the Marine Corps. He is embittered when he sees that at any range out to about 300 yards, a $1000 scope and 5 practice rounds a year will never beat a $600 rifle, iron sights, and 300 practice rounds every range day. He is, in short, an ill-informed twit who deliberately pours piss on his own clothing.

WOW!

Where do you guys find these pricks?

I have never had someone say that to me, nor have I heard them say it to someone else.

Quoted: Where do you guys find these pricks? I have never had someone say that to me, nor have I heard them say it to someone else.

That's because you're in Texas.

They are just jealous cause their prissy liberal wives wont let them have such an evil looking gun

everyone knows they are evil, after all the brady campaign said so!

Quoted: Quoted: Can I use that on my website, with proper credit given to you? Sure. Where's your website?

In a datacenter near Patterson, California - Third rack left of the door, bottom shelf. Thank you, I'm here every night. Try the veal.

alan.strawinski.net

I don't update it often.

this guy is still mouthing off

Imagine if the hunter was a LEO and was being paid to be the RO.  That's my local range.  You get the usual constant anti-gun BS you get from hunters plus the usual anti-gun BS you always get from cops.  The guy is constantly mouthing off.  Even though the range is just down the street from my house, I haven't been in years.  It just isn't worth it dealing with the hunters there or with the RO that's both a hunter and a cop.z

They're mostly at the DNR ranges that allow single loads only.

At another range that allows a few extra rounds per mag, you won't find many "English Shotgun Shooters" or "Deer Hunters" because everyone has at least 1 semi-auto rifle.

Last month there was some tard  sand bag shooting his T/C single shot pistol in .30-30 next to me and he was getting a bit annoyed that he was getting hit with brass from my "new fangled" 1911A1. I had a brass screen up, but a stray case would make it over once in a while. He got all pissy and said "I'm a member at this club and your not allowed to do that blah blah blah brass hitting me blah blah blah...." I tried to be nice and explain that there is no sign anywhere that said I could not shoot this gun and that I had every right to be there and shoot my legal and allowed pistol, or that I wasnt allowed to have my brass land on other benches from time to time. I mean wtf, its a semi-auto, what the hell can I do about where the bass goes. I was nice enough to have a screen up, unlike some others who just rapid fire and let the brass shower you. So, he wanted to be a prick, I can be one too. I went and got my M44 Mosin Nagant and I had some really old, nasty commie surplus that made huge fireballs and muzzle blast. I loaded it up and I bet that old fart didnt even know what it was or what was in store for him, though I think he was a bit relieved that put the 1911 away and got out a bolt action.

I waited and watched out of the corner of my eye as to when he was ready to shoot(he was one of those types who bring 100lbs of gear to the range and get all set up to fire 1 shot every hour). As soon as he took his 5 minutes to line up the sights, and was ready to pull the trigger, I let of a round from the M44. The blast scared him and he flinched just as he was ready to shoot making his shot an embarassing flyer. He looked really pissed and I pretended to go about my business unaware of what I had done. I did this a second time  and a third, thats when  he said "excuse me" very loud. I gave him a shocked "Who, Me?" look. He stormed off to get the RO and complain. The RO came over and asked what was going on, I told him I was just minding my own business and that this guy seems upset for some reason. The RO told the guy to shut up and mind his own business. I did it a few more times and the guy packed up and left. His grouping was like 6" at 50yds from what I had done.

I just love twisting the tail of these old kooks!

My dad for the longest time told me that I was stupid for wanting to waste my money on an AK.

"You can't hunt with them, they're not accurate, and you'll just get in trouble when some dumbass mistakes yours for a machine gun and calls the cops on you."

His words, not mine.

He took back the bit about hunting with them when I showed that an AK had nearly identical ballistics to .30-30 (which is what I hunt with) and was just as accurate at the same ranges, but still didn't see the point to buying one.

He changed his mind when I told he could shoot a couple rounds out of my rifle. He proceeded to dump the entire magazine in two seconds flat with a gigantic shit-eating grin on his face, and just last weekend he and his best friend took it up the ranch to try bump-firing.

I think I just made a new convert.

I have seen the hunters you describe too. And I really hate that they only shoot three shots from a bench. Your target deserves more respect than that. They need to try different posistions and spend more time practicing.

On the plus side, some old guys I hunt with, shoot prairie diogs. They recently upgraded from Ruger 10-22's to a flattop Bushmaster  after I let them reach out and touch the long range ones with my AR.

A few converts at a time.

Theres this 60 something year old retired cop at the indoor range I go to who is the most amazing shooter Ive ever seen in my life. This guy shoots pistol one handed at 25 yards and ALWAYS hits one inch targets at that distance. He puts all the rounds in the same hole. He shot out the bullseye of a target with 1 full mag of a Glock .45

Most "hunters" I see at the range cant hit the berm.

Quoted: Most old hunters I know can shoot the nuts off a gnat at 100 yards using the iron sights on a lever action 30-30.  Guess it depends on the 'old guy.'

Most of the hunters I know say that too, often in the same sentence as, "I only fire four rounds a year, three at the range to make sure its on and one at my deer or elk." You see them at the range and its usually pretty sad. Trying  to zero there 7mm mag with three different wieghts of bullets, borrowing my spotting scope and walking away happy with there 10 shot pattern at 100 yards.

My father is the same way...an old romantic deer hunter who never served in any of the armed forces.....yet he's an "all steel and wood"..."Make each shot count" kinda guy and while he admires garrands?...he scoffs at all the AR's my former U.S. Marine @$$ has ever owned....until one day I was all excited to show him a new Colt Sporter NM H-har I had just aqquired...and after shouldering it for one quick moment he looked at it with distain then literally threw my brand new colt AR (from about 2-3' away) back into my hard rifle case with disgust..."THAT"...pi$$ed me off....and I told my very own father...

"I hope you enjoyed that little abusive and childish display you just put on because you'll NEVER again ever so much as look at any of my firearms let alone touch, feel or shoot them."

"Then he did the "Play Dumb" thing with..."What?...Whad I do to pi$$ you off now?"

I asked.."How would you like me to play ring toss with your brand new rifle?"

Then he got the message...and tried to apologize in his own pathetic way with..."Well!!!...You know I don't like guns that are designed to kill people!!!"

Then I asked..."So that CCP and Sig P230 ya tote around in your back pocket is for what?....just in case you run into an enraged rabbit?"

It was only after I explained to him that..."Look Dad...the AR IS "My Generations Garrand"....representitive of WHAT I SERVED with...so go hug your freaking single shot 2X4 with a barrel bolt guns all you want but you'll Never touch any of my firearms again...and throwing my "cost twice as much as any gun you own" AR like that was nothing less than an ignorant act of complete disrespect ."

"THEN"...he realized the err of his ways and only then did he mustered up a decent and sincere apology....and that was my own freaking father....so just imagine what some old codger at the range thinks. LOL!!!

L8R, Bill.

Quoted: your freaking single shot 2X4 with a barrel bolt gun

I had quite a good number of time a similar experience in Italy, when hunters were at the range where I used to go.

I classify hunters in TWO big categories:

a) pure hunters
b) hunters-shooters

Pure Hunters

They don't know ANYTHING about ballistic, about mechanics, barely about reloading. Normally they don't give a rat ass about safe handling and cannot distiguish a full auto gun from a semiauto shot with a very fast "trigger" finger.

They don't collect military ex ordnances, finding them too heavy to bring them for hunting, they HATE anything that looks like AR or AK, and they are the FIRST to say that those firearms are for killing and to give notice to the Police that "a couple of guys with military rifles were shooting at our ranges".

Rarely seen at ranges, are easily recognizable for the way they handle their guns: muzzles pointed everywhere, bolt closed while dragging the rifle (nobody knows if roung chambered or not...), safety is a useless device.

They usually points a .375 H&H straight to your head, and when you make them understand that you are getting pissed off, they start the usual phrase : "Why do you get angry? It's UNLOADED!", pissing you off even more.

If I was their examinator when giving their exam to get hunting licence, I would reject 70% of them.

hunter-shooter

It takes the best from both world, shooting and hunting. They shoot AR, Aks as well as classic bolt actions, they master the art of reloading and they collect and LOVE ex ordnances, short and long guns.
Very often they are at ranges to test the latest news from gun world, and are VERY TIGHT on safe gun handling. When seeing someone infringing safety rules, the first time they make you notice with a smile on their face. Second time they warn you that thei are going to boot you out of the range, nevermind who you are: safety first.
They are curious about mechanichs and ballistic, understanding that shooting is not just "pulling the trigger".

My best friends belongs to this second kind of people. Very prod of them.

I once met a guy at the range who, shooting his trusty 30-30 started making a fuss over my A4gery.  He said "now what n' the hell are you gonna use THAT for?  Runnin' through the woods chasin' aliens?!"

I said "yep"

He said "oh"

End of story.

what about deer hunting with an AR?  That freaking drives those guys nuts. Tell them you going hunting for your first time and that your AR should suffice.  They will explode. Kinda like poking a bear with a stick.

I am actually considering shooting some does this year with mine to cull herd in a stalk hunt cause my deer rifle is too damn heavy to lug around.

I've been meaning to ask, is the 223 cartridge suitable for deer?

That is a huge debate that will take this topic so far off subject, no one will ever get it back.

Some people are only for the 2nd Amendment and RKBA when it pertains to THEIR guns and what THEY think we should allow and not allow.

It's all or nothing-there is no in-between.

HH

Quoted: I've been meaning to ask, is the 223 cartridge suitable for deer?

I'm not tired of AR/deer poo-flinging just yet. I say, if you put it where it belongs, .223 is just fine. For me, it's moot . My state won't let me use a rifle in ANY caliber to take deer.

Quoted: My father is the same way...an old romantic deer hunter who never served in any of the armed forces.....yet he's an "all steel and wood"..."Make each shot count" kinda guy and while he admires garrands?...he scoffs at all the AR's my former U.S. Marine @$$ has ever owned....until one day I was all excited to show him a new Colt Sporter NM H-har I had just aqquired...and after shouldering it for one quick moment he looked at it with distain then literally threw my brand new colt AR (from about 2-3' away) back into my hard rifle case with disgust..."THAT"...pi$$ed me off....and I told my very own father... "I hope you enjoyed that little abusive and childish display you just put on because you'll NEVER again ever so much as look at any of my firearms let alone touch, feel or shoot them." "Then he did the "Play Dumb" thing with..."What?...Whad I do to pi$$ you off now?" I asked.."How would you like me to play ring toss with your brand new rifle?" Then he got the message...and tried to apologize in his own pathetic way with..."Well!!!...You know I don't like guns that are designed to kill people!!!" Then I asked..."So that CCP and Sig P230 ya tote around in your back pocket is for what?....just in case you run into an enraged rabbit?" It was only after I explained to him that..."Look Dad...the AR IS "My Generations Garand"....representitive of WHAT I SERVED with...so go hug your freaking single shot 2X4 with a barrel bolt guns all you want but you'll Never touch any of my firearms again...and throwing my "cost twice as much as any gun you own" AR like that was nothing less than an ignorant act of complete disrespect ." "THEN"...he realized the err of his ways and only then did he mustered up a decent and sincere apology....and that was my own freaking father....so just imagine what some old codger at the range thinks. LOL!!! L8R, Bill.

I never thought of it that way, it's a good analogy.

I had my AR with me last year and I got told I was using a "cheater" gun .

Real hunters only use bolt actions apparently. Then when I pulled out the K31 with some Hornady reloads and shot an 8in group at 100yrds offhand with open sights they made fun me for being "all over the target".

Quoted: what about deer hunting with an AR?  That freaking drives those guys nuts. Tell them you going hunting for your first time and that your AR should suffice.  They will explode. Kinda like poking a bear with a stick. I am actually considering shooting some does this year with mine to cull herd in a stalk hunt cause my deer rifle is too damn heavy to lug around.

My dad just rolls his eyes and smiles when I say I'm taking the AR or AK deer or hog hunting but he likes shooting them himself With these scrawny little florida whitetails here my .243 is almost overkill, my dad blows holes in 'em with a .270 or 30-06 The .223 or my 22-250 are excellent deer calibers around here where the deer rarley exceed 200 lb. I am planning on taking the AK hog hunting this year though plus I want to kill a few little piglets, kind of like hog veal, so the AR might get that job There are several people we hog hunt with that use SKS's since they are semi-auto and cheap enough to throw around in the truck and not worry about scratching it, plus they are good shooters. My archery plot's longest possible shot would be about 40 yards so I will be taking the Mosin M38 along with me a few times this year as well, that should blow a nice hole in a deer or at least scare it to death.

Quoted: I've been meaning to ask, is the 223 cartridge suitable for deer?

Do the deer a favor.  Don't.  

Back to the thead at hand, my dad was very close to the "what the heck is that good for" until he shot mine and found out how accurate it is.  He now is collecting more C&Rs than I can ever afford and is looking for his first AR.

What is it about some AR owners and their hate for deer hunters?