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Posted: 9/28/2004 11:18:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:28:09 PM EST by AR15fan]
Happened in Ohio I think? Amish teens and young adults were throwing ears of corn at passing cars and people. Guy blasted one of them with a shotgun. Anyone know if he took a plead bargain, or got convicted?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:20:46 AM EST
He was shunned.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:21:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:41:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:45:37 PM EST
Seems a fair verdict to me.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:47:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Seems a fair verdict to me.



For shooting someone?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:50:12 PM EST
The Mennonites are such hooligans.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:50:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Assistant Holmes County Prosecutor Steve Knowling told jurors during closing arguments that Keim’s death was no accident. He said Keim was struck by more than 100 pellets.

“If he shot the shotgun above the cornfield, into the air, he wouldn’t be here. Steven Keim wouldn’t be dead,” Knowling told jurors.



Over 100 pellets? I’m kinda naïve on shotguns, but wouldn’t he have to reload once or twice to get that much buckshot into the kid and make sure all of the buckshot hit him?

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:51:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:53:34 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Seems a fair verdict to me.



For shooting someone?



For shooting someone who was messing with people -- could have caused an accident and personal injury -- hell yes.

I also advocate shooting and killing those that throw stuff off of bridges onto cars.

Don't want shot - don't do it.

Apparently 12 people in the jury felt the same way.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:52:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:53:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Eight teens and three men in their early 20s pleaded guilty to vehicular vandalism in the prank. The juveniles were sentenced to serve a weekend in juvenile detention and fined $250; the adults were sentenced to four days in jail and fined $500.

www.timesreporter.com/left.php?external=repsearch_detail.php&ID=27526



Glad to see they didnt give the vandals a pass. It was after all their "prank" that initiated the nights events.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:54:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:
Over 100 pellets? I’m kinda naïve on shotguns, but wouldn’t he have to reload once or twice to get that much buckshot into the kid and make sure all of the buckshot hit him?




Birdshot.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:54:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:

Over 100 pellets? I’m kinda naïve on shotguns, but wouldn’t he have to reload once or twice to get that much buckshot into the kid and make sure all of the buckshot hit him?




Where'd you get that it was buckshot? Maybe I skimmed it too fast and missed it?
CR
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:55:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:57:39 PM EST by cyanide]
The people who were doing this were

CLASS A jerks.

Amish adults and older -- almost adults

Lets see if they think it is fun to mess like this again ...................

I feel it is time for a HERO rifle fund raiser ...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:57:25 PM EST
how could you not know you shot someone, this smells fishy
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:58:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
how could you not know you shot someone, this smells fishy



You can't see past three rows of corn, they were in a corn field
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:58:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
how could you not know you shot someone, this smells fishy



ever been in a corn field at night?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:06:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By repub18:
how could you not know you shot someone, this smells fishy



ever been in a corn field at night?



Not since that great tomato-throwing party.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:14:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By CR_OPSO:

Originally Posted By Alien:

Over 100 pellets? I’m kinda naïve on shotguns, but wouldn’t he have to reload once or twice to get that much buckshot into the kid and make sure all of the buckshot hit him?




Where'd you get that it was buckshot? Maybe I skimmed it too fast and missed it?
CR



I assumed it was buckshot.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:19:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Happened in Ohio I think? Amish teens were throwing ears of corn at passing cars and people. Guy blasted one of them with a shotgun. Anyone know if he took a plead bargain, or got convicted?



And for the record the Amish dude who was killed was 23 I seem to recall -- in any event he was over 21 for sure
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:22:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:23:06 PM EST by M4]

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Seems a fair verdict to me.



Sure. 6 months for killing a kid tossing tomatoes....yeah, that's about right.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:27:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Seems a fair verdict to me.



Sure. 6 months for killing a kid tossing tomatoes....yeah, that's about right.



6-Months for killing a grown man who was committing serial vandalism.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:30:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Seems a fair verdict to me.



Sure. 6 months for killing a kid tossing tomatoes....yeah, that's about right.



6-Months for killing a grown man who was committing serial vandalism.



Just shows how state laws differ.

Here in Texas, you can only kill a person if you "are in fear of your life", or someone else's.

Killing tomato throwers is a little past reason in Texas.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:34:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:35:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:36:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By cyanide:
Seems a fair verdict to me.



Sure. 6 months for killing a kid tossing tomatoes....yeah, that's about right.



6-Months for killing a grown man who was committing serial vandalism.



Just shows how state laws differ.

Here in Texas, you can only kill a person if you "are in fear of your life", or someone else's.

Killing tomato throwers is a little past reason in Texas.




I believe its illegal to shoot petty vandals in any state. Some states may allow deadly force if its felony vandalism at night time though.

I would support allowing deadly force for petty vandalism. Its a crime that has no justifiable excuse. destroying someone elses property for no reason at all.



Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:40:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:45:26 PM EST by cyanide]
Some of these people who have responded don't know what the heck it is all about

they have never been on a county road ---- no lights

most are graveled ---
speed limits are 55 MPH --
ditches can be 3-6 feet deep ---

to have a object, tomato, whatever hit your vehicle as your going down the road can cause your vehicle to be totaled -- and for you to be messed up bad or killed.

If they think this is a harmless prank -- they know not what they speak about.


Oh and they were shooting paint ball guns at folks also.

So for just a minute imagine driving down a dark road at night, 55 MPH and to have a barrage of shit hit your vehicle out of no where -- ears of corn, tomato's and paint ball fire. ................. It has happened to me, you swerve, brake, and if lucky keep it on the road.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:43:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:47:24 PM EST
Six months for a life? That seems pretty nutty.

I'm sorry but people should not absent extreme circumstances "be the judge in their own case." People are biased, angry, impulsive, etc. That's why we have LEO and Courts etc. And people should not start shooting guns unless they're in fear of their life. Life is important. That's why I defend my own; I don't think a (nonpermanent) tomato stain on my car is worth a knife, gun or anything. Call the cops if you're pissed. Don't go around shooting people. That's completley unreasonably and shows someone to be totally irresponsible.

The family forgave him. Good for them. The law is about the community's standards, I remind you.

As for his health problems, I guess he'll have to die in prison (if I were on the jury). And we all know he had to aim to hit the kid this much with birdshot. What a psycho.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:50:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:52:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:52:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Publius:
Life is important.



Property is important. I work hard, spending time away from my family and friends to buy my property. Essentially trading hours, weeks, years of my life for those items of personal property. Someone who destroys my property is robbing me of that time, my "life" with my family.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:54:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
A 12 oz tomato smashing into a 2,000 pound vehicle is quite provocative!



Felony vandalism depending on where it hits and the value of the car. Plus the risk of the resulting traffic collision.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:55:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:55:37 PM EST by Publius]
Well then call the cops or sue them dude. It's not worth killing someone over. There has to be some proportionality. I doubt this guy was in any frame of mind to judge these kids fairly.

How does a tomato destory anything, btw? It takes 2 seconds to hose it down.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:58:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Publius:
Well then call the cops or sue them dude. It's not worth killing someone over. There has to be some proportionality. I doubt this guy was in any frame of mind to judge these kids fairly.

How does a tomato destory anything, btw? It takes 2 seconds to hose it down.



You sound like a tomato tosser yourself ................. worried a bit are we ???
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:00:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:02:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By Publius:
Well then call the cops or sue them dude. It's not worth killing someone over. There has to be some proportionality. I doubt this guy was in any frame of mind to judge these kids fairly.

How does a tomato destory anything, btw? It takes 2 seconds to hose it down.



You sound like a tomato tosser yourself ................. worried a bit are we ???



Hardly. But I'm worried a law enforcement officer such as yourself entrusted by society to use violence not permitted to ordinary citizens has such a cavalier regard for human life. JBT indeed.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:08:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 2:16:22 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By Publius:

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By Publius:
Well then call the cops or sue them dude. It's not worth killing someone over. There has to be some proportionality. I doubt this guy was in any frame of mind to judge these kids fairly.

How does a tomato destory anything, btw? It takes 2 seconds to hose it down.



You sound like a tomato tosser yourself ................. worried a bit are we ???



Hardly. But I'm worried a law enforcement officer such as yourself entrusted by society to use violence not permitted to ordinary citizens has such a cavalier regard for human life. JBT indeed.



I have an opinion
you have yours

until I sit on a jury -
I obey all laws ----------- as we all should
I may have opinions that they (certain laws) aren't right.............. as is my right.


EDIT: you TX guys doesn't TX have a law that says you can shoot a person on your property at night stealing from you -- say hub caps ???
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:10:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:22:41 PM EST
"Cyanide" you have an opinion, but it's a wrong-headed, unreasonable, and indefensible one far outside the mainstream. It reflects a cock-eyed value scheme that is utterly indifferent to KILLING someone--someone who will never get to grow older, have a family, etc.--because of an extremely minor vandalism incident. If you think that's A-OK, I repeat my concern that someone with such a sociopathic view of things probably should not be an LEO.

As for TX law, it's technically possible to use deadly force to prevent "criminal mischief in the nightime" perhaps on the theory that it's more reasonable to be in fear of one's life in such circumstances. But even then one is well advised not to use deadly force unless absolutely necessary. The whole point of self-defense is not to kill or to run around like a vigilante; it's that on balance it's better to have people defend themselves rather than be killed when they're put in that position through no fault of their own. It doesn't mean that individual people, looking out for themselves, and not being fair or objective, should shoot people whenever they're pissed off, annoyed, or even the victims of vandalism.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:23:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 2:28:26 PM EST by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:25:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Publius:
Well then call the cops or sue them dude. It's not worth killing someone over. There has to be some proportionality. I doubt this guy was in any frame of mind to judge these kids fairly.

How does a tomato destory anything, btw? It takes 2 seconds to hose it down.



A tomato hitting a car going 55MPH will break the windshield or dent any portion of the body it hits. So will water ballons and other soft thrown objects.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:29:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
A 12 oz tomato smashing into a 2,000 pound vehicle is quite provocative!


Felony vandalism depending on where it hits and the value of the car. Plus the risk of the resulting traffic collision.


You are really not being serious, are you?

I mean, there is such a thing as proportionality, you know.

So, you are quite pleased at the outcome of this little episode?



I believe it is a fair outcome for all involved. I am not saddened at all by the death of a vandal. I cannot imagine why anyone beyond his immediate family would be.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:29:55 PM EST
6 months is a pretty light sentence in my opinion. It is quite likely that the shooter was only trying to scare them off. It was certainly bad judgement to fire into the field, and I feel that regardless of his intentions, he should have recieved a stiffer sentence.

What were these Amish kids thinking? Surely even the Amish aren't sheltered enough to think that nobody would get made about them vandalizing cars. I can understand 12 and 13 year-old kids doing this, but a 23 year-old man? I find it amazing that this is the first time they were shot at.

Down here, a 23 year-old inbred tossing an ear of corn at a car is enough to cause half the population to start shooting.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:31:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Publius:
"Cyanide" you have an opinion, but it's a wrong-headed, unreasonable, and indefensible one far outside the mainstream. It reflects a cock-eyed value scheme that is utterly indifferent to KILLING someone--someone who will never get to grow older, have a family, etc.--because of an extremely minor vandalism incident.



If he had not learned personal responsibility and respect for other peoples property by the age of 23, old enough to have completed college or served 4 years in the military, he was unlikely to ever be a productive member of society.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:35:14 PM EST
Maybe when you come upon people like that AR15fan, you can just take them out and kill them for the rest of us. No need for paperwork or lawyers when those nasty Amish and minor vandals are involved. Becuase boy oh boy are they causing problems.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:38:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Oh and they were shooting paint ball guns at folks also.



...Why the hell would an AMISH MAN have a paintball gun?

What, did he also have a few power saws and a CO2 tank in his shed?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:43:05 PM EST

A 12 oz tomato smashing into a 2,000 pound vehicle is quite provocative!


A fist weighs, generally, about 2-3 lbs. So, I guess if that connects with a persons' face, they aren't justified in hitting back?


And yet there were more than 100 pellets in the lad's corpse.


Birdshot.


If that fellow could have put his shotgun back in the trunk of his car and driven away unidentified, I would bet he wouldn't be near as remorseful as he is NOW!


Quite possibly even more so. He was a man that got angry and, before he realized it, took the situation too far. Had he a second chance, I'd bet money that the man wouldn't kill this kid again. It could happen to any of us. God knows I've been angry enough to kill someone, but thankfully was not able to do so at the time (cooldown period, distance, reason).


Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:46:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Publius:
"Cyanide" you have an opinion, but it's a wrong-headed, unreasonable, and indefensible one far outside the mainstream. It reflects a cock-eyed value scheme that is utterly indifferent to KILLING someone--someone who will never get to grow older, have a family, etc.--because of an extremely minor vandalism incident. If you think that's A-OK, I repeat my concern that someone with such a sociopathic view of things probably should not be an LEO.

As for TX law, it's technically possible to use deadly force to prevent "criminal mischief in the nightime" perhaps on the theory that it's more reasonable to be in fear of one's life in such circumstances. But even then one is well advised not to use deadly force unless absolutely necessary. The whole point of self-defense is not to kill or to run around like a vigilante; it's that on balance it's better to have people defend themselves rather than be killed when they're put in that position through no fault of their own. It doesn't mean that individual people, looking out for themselves, and not being fair or objective, should shoot people whenever they're pissed off, annoyed, or even the victims of vandalism.



I rest my case -- others feel as I do apparently

Get use to it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:47:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 2:50:09 PM EST by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:48:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 2:52:08 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Oh and they were shooting paint ball guns at folks also.



...Why the hell would an AMISH MAN have a paintball gun?

What, did he also have a few power saws and a CO2 tank in his shed?



You would be surprised ---
they can not wear english clothes -- unless it is from Walmart and camo clothes for hunting ......

They can't have a phone in the house, but can have a phone booth in the front yard ???

A very selective religion -- I think it is all a tax dodge.
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