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Posted: 10/8/2004 10:48:37 AM EST
I have 110 gr. 125 gr. and 130 gr. .38 ammo. I know what grain counts are and understand that some burn slower / some faster, etc.

110 gr. Hydra-shok
125 gr. jacketed hollows
130 gr. ball

What is the difference in performance between these?

Why are there so many different grain choices?

Educate me, please.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:50:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:51:01 AM EST
best 38 round is the 158 Semi wad cutter hollow point.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:52:08 AM EST
do you have a 10/22 also?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:52:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:
best 38 round is the 158 Semi wad cutter hollow point.




Why?

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:53:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 10:54:22 AM EST by MillerSHO]
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:53:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 10:54:41 AM EST by cwd10]
Grain is the weight of the bullet. As far as I know, it has nothing to do with burn rate.

Edited to add:damn, got beat again.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:53:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
do you have a 10/22 also?



No - but I wouldn't mind having one.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:53:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 10:53:48 AM EST by Dolomite]

Originally Posted By Mak762:
best 38 round is the 158 Semi wad cutter hollow point.




+P!

The "Chicago" load.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:53:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I have 110 gr. 125 gr. and 130 gr. .38 ammo. I know what grain counts are and understand that some burn slower / some faster, etc.

110 gr. Hydra-shok
125 gr. jacketed hollows
130 gr. ball

What is the difference in performance between these?

Why are there so many different grain choices?

Educate me, please.




You make the same mistake I did when you first heard the work "grain".

It's actually the weight of the bullet, it has nothing to do with the amount of powder charge.



+1
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:53:56 AM EST
The grain numbers you have listed are the weight of the projectile.
Not the weight of the powder in the round. Thus burn rates have
nothing to do with your question.
Different projectiles and projectile weights are made for different
tasks. Say, self-defence, hunting, targets.

DanM
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:54:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
do you have a 10/22 also?



No - but I wouldn't mind having one.




It's times like this that I miss the Designated Gunsmith and Ammunition Research Ballistics Expert Trollish Free Thinker....
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:54:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I have 110 gr. 125 gr. and 130 gr. .38 ammo. I know what grain counts are and understand that some burn slower / some faster, etc.

110 gr. Hydra-shok
125 gr. jacketed hollows
130 gr. ball

What is the difference in performance between these?

Why are there so many different grain choices?

Educate me, please.




You make the same mistake I did when you first heard the work "grain".

It's actually the weight of the bullet, it has nothing to do with the amount of powder charge.



Ahhh! Thank you! I guess its better to ask now than look like a dork later.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:55:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
do you have a 10/22 also?




Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:55:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By DanM:
The grain numbers you have listed are the weight of the projectile.
Not the weight of the powder in the round. Thus burn rates have
nothing to do with your question.
Different projectiles and projectile weights are made for different
tasks. Say, self-defence, hunting, targets.

DanM



Thank you!

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:02:03 AM EST
Grains in that context means the weight of the bullet. 7000 grains to a pound. Using a heavier bullet means less velocity. If the bullet's too light, then velocity's too high, and it leaves the barrel before most of the energy from the powder is used. If the bullet's too heavy, then velocity is low and pressure can get too high, causing kabooms. The heavier bullet also leaves less space in the case, which can also cause excessive pressure.

So, every caliber has a range of bullet weights that work properly. There is considerable debate on exactly what type of bullet is most effective. Usually, something in the midrange of available weights is all right.

Also, revolvers may have more choices, because they don't depend on a certain minimum amount of energy to cycle properly.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:02:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I have 110 gr. 125 gr. and 130 gr. .38 ammo. I know what grain counts are and understand that some burn slower / some faster, etc.

110 gr. Hydra-shok
125 gr. jacketed hollows
130 gr. ball

What is the difference in performance between these?

Why are there so many different grain choices?

Educate me, please.



Go the the AR boards, Ammunition section. Tacked at the top is a thread that explains about the better performing self-defense loads.

It sounds like you could benefit by doing some reading over there to expand your understanding of ammunition and ballistics. Lots of great information.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=162042
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:04:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By mace:
Grains in that context means the weight of the bullet. 7000 grains to a pound. Using a heavier bullet means less velocity. If the bullet's too light, then velocity's too high, and it leaves the barrel before most of the energy from the powder is used. If the bullet's too heavy, then velocity is low and pressure can get too high, causing kabooms. The heavier bullet also leaves less space in the case, which can also cause excessive pressure.

So, every caliber has a range of bullet weights that work properly. There is considerable debate on exactly what type of bullet is most effective. Usually, something in the midrange of available weights is all right.

Also, revolvers may have more choices, because they don't depend on a certain minimum amount of energy to cycle properly.



I would also note, that given comparable speed and cross-section, a heavier slug will tend to impart a greater amount of energy to anything it strikes than a lighter one.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:05:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By mace:
Grains in that context means the weight of the bullet. 7000 grains to a pound. Using a heavier bullet means less velocity. If the bullet's too light, then velocity's too high, and it leaves the barrel before most of the energy from the powder is used. If the bullet's too heavy, then velocity is low and pressure can get too high, causing kabooms. The heavier bullet also leaves less space in the case, which can also cause excessive pressure.

So, every caliber has a range of bullet weights that work properly. There is considerable debate on exactly what type of bullet is most effective. Usually, something in the midrange of available weights is all right.

Also, revolvers may have more choices, because they don't depend on a certain minimum amount of energy to cycle properly.



Thank you, mace!

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:06:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I have 110 gr. 125 gr. and 130 gr. .38 ammo. I know what grain counts are and understand that some burn slower / some faster, etc.

110 gr. Hydra-shok
125 gr. jacketed hollows
130 gr. ball

What is the difference in performance between these?

Why are there so many different grain choices?

Educate me, please.



Go the the AR boards, Ammunition section. Tacked at the top is a thread that explains about the better performing self-defense loads.

It sounds like you could benefit by doing some reading over there to expand your understanding of ammunition and ballistics. Lots of great information.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=162042



Roger that! Thank you!

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:07:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I would also note, that given comparable speed and cross-section, a heavier slug will tend to impart a greater amount of energy to anything it strikes than a lighter one.



A good thing...to be sure. Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 11:11:15 AM EST
Grains are a unit of measurement for weight. 7000 grains = 1 pound.

So what you are seeing is the weight of the bullet/projectile.


Given the same SPEED, heavier bullets will have more energy. However, in the same cartridge, limited by the same pressure, the speed usually varies. Heavier bullets will usually be slower, due to reduced case volume. The same powder charge with a heavier bullet will increase the pressure inside the cartridge when it is fired, thus the charge is usually smaller.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 12:53:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 12:54:06 PM EST by legalese77]

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Grains are a unit of measurement for weight. 7000 grains = 1 pound.

So what you are seeing is the weight of the bullet/projectile.


Given the same SPEED, heavier bullets will have more energy. However, in the same cartridge, limited by the same pressure, the speed usually varies. Heavier bullets will usually be slower, due to reduced case volume. The same powder charge with a heavier bullet will increase the pressure inside the cartridge when it is fired, thus the charge is usually smaller.




True, which is why distance to target often matters since this impacts velocity at impact. As with everything, there are exceptions... For example, a 135gr +P+ could easily have a higher muzzle velocity than a 115gr target round (thinking 9mm here @ ~1100fps v 950fps, maybe) and I would predict, though I can't say for sure, that the increased mass would, in addition to imparting more energy, would also retain more velocity given similar coefficient of drag because of inertia. Can anyone confirm that?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 1:57:33 PM EST
OK - I did some reading but I still don't know what +P+ is.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 2:12:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
OK - I did some reading but I still don't know what +P+ is.



Increased pressure. Each caliber has a certain standard pressure that it's loads generate. Firearms in that caliber are expected to be able to stand up to at least that much pressure. Some calibers also have a standardized +P rating - the same case loaded with a heavier charge to produce a higher standard pressure and therefore higher velocity with the same bullets. 9x19 also has a +P+ rating for even higher pressure.

You should generally make sure that the firearm in question is rated to fire those +P and +P+ cartridges. I don't think any well-made firearm would kaboom, but you could get increased wear and parts breakage. IIRC, +P+ is officially meant for submachine guns and not many handguns can stand up to a steady diet of it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 2:25:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 2:28:27 PM EST by sum-rifle]

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
I have 110 gr. 125 gr. and 130 gr. .38 ammo. I know what grain counts are and understand that some burn slower / some faster, etc.

110 gr. Hydra-shok
125 gr. jacketed hollows
130 gr. ball

What is the difference in performance between these?

Why are there so many different grain choices?

Educate me, please.




I am not so sure you do know what "grain counts" are whatever that is.
110 grain, 125 grain etc.. are just the weight of the bullet.
The powder charge is also measured in grains.
The burning rate of powders are different. Pistol powder is generally faster than rifle powder for example.

Many pistol rounds use about 4 to 7 grains of powder.

edited to add "OK I'm slow on the keyboard"
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 2:44:54 PM EST
Okay, the grains you've listed are of the bullet, not of the powder.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 5:41:17 PM EST
Yes and that is why I like the 10 mil,large bullet(200 grain) lots of velocity!!!!

Bob
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 8:02:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 8:09:23 PM EST by 199]
As already described, +P+ designates ammo that generates a higher chamber pressure than either standard and +P marked ammo generate.

+P+ ammo is generally made for specific users (such as a LEO agencies) who will insure that it is only used in suitable firearms. It is not meant for commercial sale, though in reality it is readily available at gun shows, on the Internet and such.

+P+ is potentially dangerous in the wrong firearm. Plus, being hotter it accelerates wear on a firearm. However, many LEO agencies use it in their handguns with no problems.


Originally Posted By legalese77:
... For example, a 135gr +P+ could easily have a higher muzzle velocity than a 115gr target round (thinking 9mm here @ ~1100fps v 950fps, maybe) and I would predict, though I can't say for sure, that the increased mass would, in addition to imparting more energy, would also retain more velocity given similar coefficient of drag because of inertia. Can anyone confirm that?


I’m no ballistics expert, but I think what you’re saying is a pretty safe bet.

That is, in general a fast moving, heavy bullet will retain more velocity than a slow moving, light bullet. If both bullets have similar ballistic coefficients, I believe this would be pretty much a certainty.

However, you’ve sorta reversed the usual comparisons, which generally involve slow moving, heavy bullets versus fast moving, light bullets.

Edited to add: Palo_Duro, before you can make any really valid performance comparisons between the bullets you list, you also need to know the velocity of each round.
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