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Posted: 6/30/2008 8:55:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 9:59:24 AM EDT
Its a quality product and holds up well to problem water, the only problem that I have with it is, using insert type fittings ( reducing the ID of the tubing) there are other fittings (shark bite) that also work well and don't require the expensive crimp tool. If I where going to use it in my house I would increase the main piping by one size up ie. if you have 3/4" go to one inch etc.
HTH
Bob
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 10:52:32 AM EDT
I have used PEX once. It wasnt on my house. It sure beats the mess that PVC glue makes. I think its pretty neat. I would use it on my house. As far as changing the size...never thought about that. My little bit of experience doesn't know enough to agree or disagree.
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 11:04:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 1:22:21 PM EDT
I specified it for my new house and it's the only way I'd go. It's easier to work with that copper (and I can work with copper easily) and costs quite a bit less.

Go with quality fittings and crimps.

I bought the tool. Cost me about $100 but it's worth it to have.
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 1:47:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 7:57:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
I went with copper. I can't imagine any kind of plastic will outlast copper--or outperform it. YMMV, but I plan to die in the bedroom of the house we're building--in about 50 years.



Not that there's anything wrong with copper but if it freezes, it will most likely break. Saw it happen in a house I was looking to buy.

A friend of mine took a piece of PEX and put a stopper in one end and crimped it, then filled it with water, and then put another stopper in and crimped it. He then threw it in the freezer. It expanded once frozen but didn't break. When it thawed, it simply shrunk down to normal size.

I guess only time will tell if PEX outlasts copper!!!!

I will only put PEX in any future house I build.
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 8:02:59 PM EDT
I helped run about 1500 feet of PEX for an in-floor heating system. It was great, it went fast, it was substantially cheaper than the copper would have been.

PEX also saved my ass when working in the bathroom of a 120 year old house.....we could have used other copper, but there was little room to work and it would have been a pain. PEX for the win.
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 8:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2008 8:12:29 PM EDT by Jake-The-Snake]
I never thought I'd say that I prefer anything to copper, as I made a living for many years replacing polybutylene (gray) piping after it failed.

I am now sold on pex, and have it throughout my home, and install it virtually every day.

As far as nothing outlasting copper, I replace copper all the time that has pinholes worn into it (usually from oversized recirc pumps). The biggest restriction copper pipe has, is that water flows, faster than roughly 6-8 feet per second, can cause erosion. Also acidic PH's, below 6.5 will wreak havoc on copper. Whereas pex has much higher (or lower) PH restraints, and can flow upwards of 20 feet per second without ill effects.

No taste issues that I am aware of. However, I am sure California will determine it causes cancer in something, someday.

Edit to add: Post .357 for the win!
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 8:15:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2008 8:17:28 PM EDT by ToyCop]
I like this fancy PEX stuff. I have it running through the whole house. It was also run from my RO unit to my fridge and sink tap and I can't taste anything out of the ordinary.

Link Posted: 6/30/2008 8:20:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2008 8:26:27 PM EDT by PUBBOY]
PEX CHANGED MY LIFE!!!!!

I just did a reno on the upstairs bath of our 109 year old farm house.

Pex is fast and leak proof.

Spend the extra cash on the 'better' crimp rings and tool.

I hate fluxing copper, and I'm so glad I never have to do it ever again... plus you can't beat the lower cost and qicker work time...
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 8:24:25 PM EDT
BTW, there is also a new (to me) product on the market (Home Depot) called 'Shark Bite.'

It is a coupling system that connects copper to copper, copper to PVC, copper to Pex, Pex to PVC, etc, etc, etc...

Plus it can be removed with a simple little tool.

I used them the connect the old copper 1/2 inch supply line with my new Pex system upstairs.

Amazing product.
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 8:32:58 PM EDT
The other fun thing about PEX is that you can change it really quickly and easily. Want a valve in some existing piping? Cut out a 2" chunk where you want to put the valve in....crimp in the new part, and voila. Less than a 2 minute job.
Link Posted: 6/30/2008 9:06:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2008 9:10:23 PM EDT by ColtRifle]

Originally Posted By Jake-The-Snake:
I never thought I'd say that I prefer anything to copper, as I made a living for many years replacing polybutylene (gray) piping after it failed.

I am now sold on pex, and have it throughout my home, and install it virtually every day.

As far as nothing outlasting copper, I replace copper all the time that has pinholes worn into it (usually from oversized recirc pumps). The biggest restriction copper pipe has, is that water flows, faster than roughly 6-8 feet per second, can cause erosion. Also acidic PH's, below 6.5 will wreak havoc on copper. Whereas pex has much higher (or lower) PH restraints, and can flow upwards of 20 feet per second without ill effects.

No taste issues that I am aware of. However, I am sure California will determine it causes cancer in something, someday.

Edit to add: Post .357 for the win!



What kind of crimps do you recommend?? I have the type that uses the one size tool and the stainless crimp rings. The other tool is very expensive and used the copper rings...just like the pictures that the poster above.

I've never noticed any plastic flavor. Now CPVC is a different matter. A lot of people who talk about how they hate the taste of plastic pipe usually were in a house with CPVC pipe.

DON'T use CPVC!! It gets brittle with time.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 4:55:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 6:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
Wow. Cool. Looks like this is the stuff. Thanks.




You won't regret it.

Most companies offer a 20 year warrantee on the piping.

As a side note, I have a piece of 3/4 inch PEX pipe connecting my air compressor (60 gallon) to my shop air lines. It has about 125-130 psi inside it. Holds the air just fine and I even tried opening the supply valve real fast and shocking the PEX to see if it would break....no go. I'm going to replace the line eventually with a proper air pressure rated hose but for now, the PEX works fine and is holding a LOT more pressure than a water line would hold.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 7:46:14 AM EDT
Fluid dynamics 101: Increasing the I.D. of the pipe will NOT increase the available presure, but will in fact reduce it. Increasing the I.D. will, however increase the available VOLUME of water. Think of a hose or pressure washer. Look at the tip, and see how small it is. Then look at the speed and amount of pressure coming out, but in reality it's not very much water. Something to consider.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 7:52:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cwd10:
Fluid dynamics 101: Increasing the I.D. of the pipe will NOT increase the available presure, but will in fact reduce it. Increasing the I.D. will, however increase the available VOLUME of water. Think of a hose or pressure washer. Look at the tip, and see how small it is. Then look at the speed and amount of pressure coming out, but in reality it's not very much water. Something to consider.



However, if you have too small of a diameter pipe as your supply coming into the house, you will not have enough water when several faucets are open.

My house growing up had that problem. Our supply line was 1/2 inch IIRC. Our house was on a well. The flow of water from the shower was PATHETIC!

My new house has 3/4 supply lines. We can run 2 showers at the same time along with the washer and we have plenty of water. We are connected to citywater.

If I was on a well, I'd want the supply line from the pressure tank to the house to be 1 inch and then split it down to 3/4 lines to the various faucets.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 7:56:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 9:26:32 AM EDT
And that's my point. If you don't have an adequate supply, then increasing the diameter of the pipe after that, will not fix the problem. You need to have a good supply to begin with.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 11:33:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cwd10:
Fluid dynamics 101: Increasing the I.D. of the pipe will NOT increase the available presure, but will in fact reduce it. Increasing the I.D. will, however increase the available VOLUME of water. Think of a hose or pressure washer. Look at the tip, and see how small it is. Then look at the speed and amount of pressure coming out, but in reality it's not very much water. Something to consider.


Little bit of fail here.
Increasing the diameter has no effect on the STATIC pressure of the water.
Of course we really do not care about the static pressure very much, since oi only occurs when no water is being used.

Once the water starts to flow, there will be less pressure drop in a larger pipe delivering the same volume than in a smaller pipe.

Volume delivered directly affects flow velocity, and a faster flow has more drag resulting in a loss of pressure in the pipe.

Pressure washers use small hoses and nozzles to allow a small pump to produce the desired pressure.

The water supply does not have this problem, unless the flow rate becomes so high that the mains start having a significant pressure loss from flow.

A fire in an area will drop even the water main pressure since the flow volume will be very high.



Link Posted: 7/1/2008 11:35:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ToyCop:
I like this fancy PEX stuff. I have it running through the whole house. It was also run from my RO unit to my fridge and sink tap and I can't taste anything out of the ordinary.

www.k9operations.com/arfcom/pex.jpg


One of the advantages of pex is that you do NOT need fittings to turn corners.

The pipe is flexible.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 11:39:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 11:55:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:

Originally Posted By ToyCop:
I like this fancy PEX stuff. I have it running through the whole house. It was also run from my RO unit to my fridge and sink tap and I can't taste anything out of the ordinary.

www.k9operations.com/arfcom/pex.jpg


One of the advantages of pex is that you do NOT need fittings to turn corners.

The pipe is flexible.


I didn't do the work, my builder did. I believe there are a number of places where it rounds the corner on the longer runs.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 12:15:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
I went with copper. I can't imagine any kind of plastic will outlast copper--or outperform it. YMMV, but I plan to die in the bedroom of the house we're building--in about 50 years.


My copper is 2.5 years old after a replumb. Guess what? I had a leak about two weeks back. We caught it quick, but it was a pin hole in the copper. It was US made pipe too.

I hope I don't end up regretting this choice.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 12:26:38 PM EDT
I have spent some time researching it and I too am going to go with pex when I start on our new house.

Link Posted: 7/1/2008 12:26:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 12:45:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2008 12:46:50 PM EDT by Waldo0506]
I used to sell PEX, still do occasionally.


1st off don't let it sit out in the light, sunlight deteriorates it. They ship it in black bags for a reason.

2nd crimping pipes is just bad. In 40 years I predict pex will be the next polybutelyne. Crimping pipes is bad.

I sell the heck out of it, it makes a great fix for polybyutelene. I just don't trust a pipe that you crimp. If you remember back in the day polybutelyne (however you spell it) was the greatest thing since sliced bread, now millions of homes have bad plumbing.


ETA: how did the copper get stolen? every builder knows you put doors and windows on before running plumbing and electrical now.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 12:56:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 4:30:33 PM EDT
im me and i will cut you a heck of a deal
p.s. i reccomend using a manabloc system for your dw look into the vanguard/viega line up
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 7:38:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2008 9:17:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2008 9:26:59 PM EDT by Jake-The-Snake]

Originally Posted By ColtRifle:

Originally Posted By Jake-The-Snake:
I never thought I'd say that I prefer anything to copper, as I made a living for many years replacing polybutylene (gray) piping after it failed.

I am now sold on pex, and have it throughout my home, and install it virtually every day.

As far as nothing outlasting copper, I replace copper all the time that has pinholes worn into it (usually from oversized recirc pumps). The biggest restriction copper pipe has, is that water flows, faster than roughly 6-8 feet per second, can cause erosion. Also acidic PH's, below 6.5 will wreak havoc on copper. Whereas pex has much higher (or lower) PH restraints, and can flow upwards of 20 feet per second without ill effects.

No taste issues that I am aware of. However, I am sure California will determine it causes cancer in something, someday.

Edit to add: Post .357 for the win!



What kind of crimps do you recommend?? I have the type that uses the one size tool and the stainless crimp rings. The other tool is very expensive and used the copper rings...just like the pictures that the poster above.

I've never noticed any plastic flavor. Now CPVC is a different matter. A lot of people who talk about how they hate the taste of plastic pipe usually were in a house with CPVC pipe.

DON'T use CPVC!! It gets brittle with time.


+1 on CPVC

I use several fitting systems.

I like the Wirsbo pro-pex system where you expand the pex, as you don't get as much restriction in the piping because the hole through the fitting is almost as large as the id of the tubing. Thats a moot point here in WI though, as the water pipe sizing charts, to meet code, are based on the most restrictive system. I like home run systems anyway, so also not an issue.

I've been using Viega's system a lot as of late. and it is awesome! Rather than a crimp, it squeezes on the fitting more like a hydraulic hose fitting. I think its my new favorite, and it works with all types of pex(a,b,and c), as well as polybutylene(with a pb-pex fitting) and that messed up KiTec in 1/2 in.

I also have oetiker clamps which work well.

As far as pex, I use Wirsbo pex-a, but am a fan of all pex EXCEPT KiTec (pex-alum-pex or pe-alum-pe). KiTec is awful! It is only pex on the red, and have had issues with it when used with aggressive water.

Edit to add: The company I work for has been using Wirsbo pex for more than 20 years with no problems not caused by man (nails and sawzalls will penetrate pex just as easily as copper).
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 4:31:41 AM EDT
I used the Wirsbo Pex on a few radiant slab systems and it was great.

For those who think copper is the best, Some areas of the country have water that is so bad it corrodes or blocks copper pipe in a few years.

Part of the beauty of PEX is the flexability to bend it around corners and obstacles. You should be trying to minimize the number of fittings you use.

Have any of you used the homerun method VS traditional branching?
Link Posted: 7/5/2008 6:24:51 AM EDT
I'll be using PEX in our new addition. It'll have a kitchen, laundry and half bath as well as a 900sq ft man cave in the basement with a bar, half bath and shop sink. There's quite a bit of plumbing to do. The nice thing is that with PEX you bolt hot and cold manifolds to the wall and just keep adding on devices.

Link Posted: 7/6/2008 5:12:30 AM EDT
I used it in the basement for a shower addition. I bought 100' of half inch pex for $29. Thats alot of tubing. I used quick connect fittings that range from $5 to $7.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 12:21:40 PM EDT
Copper>
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:12:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:
I used to sell PEX, still do occasionally.


1st off don't let it sit out in the light, sunlight deteriorates it. They ship it in black bags for a reason.

2nd crimping pipes is just bad. In 40 years I predict pex will be the next polybutelyne. Crimping pipes is bad.

I sell the heck out of it, it makes a great fix for polybyutelene. I just don't trust a pipe that you crimp. If you remember back in the day polybutelyne (however you spell it) was the greatest thing since sliced bread, now millions of homes have bad plumbing.


ETA: how did the copper get stolen? every builder knows you put doors and windows on before running plumbing and electrical now.


The only problem with that statement, Polybutylene didn't last 20 years for the most part, let alone 40, most issues with PB happened in 10-15 years at most, and I have replaced whole domestic water pipe systems in homes with less than 5 years of use. It had issues with chlorinated water, which oops! most city water supplies are.

Pex on the other hand has an exceptional track record. The company I work for has installed it for more than 20 years. As with anything, there are some pretty crappy connection systems out there, and I don't disagree with with your dislike for crimping.

As to the stolen copper, here it is mainly in foreclosed/vacant homes. The meth heads gotta fund their habit somehow, and are too stupid to see they work harder at stripping copper then if they had a real job.

Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:19:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By valkyrie0002:
I used the Wirsbo Pex on a few radiant slab systems and it was great.

For those who think copper is the best, Some areas of the country have water that is so bad it corrodes or blocks copper pipe in a few years.

Part of the beauty of PEX is the flexability to bend it around corners and obstacles. You should be trying to minimize the number of fittings you use.

Have any of you used the homerun method VS traditional branching?


I do both types of installations. I have a home run system in my home, with 1 inch copper manifolds, and 1/2 inch runs. Everything is fairly central to the water heater and manifolds.

The problems with home runs occur when you have long runs. You have to wait for hot water at, say the lav, you'll have to wait again at the shower, as the hot water has to travel down a whole new run. Not normally a big problem, but really long runs can be.
Link Posted: 7/6/2008 8:29:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2008 8:35:40 PM EDT by fxntime]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
I went with copper. I can't imagine any kind of plastic will outlast copper--or outperform it. YMMV, but I plan to die in the bedroom of the house we're building--in about 50 years.


The plastic used for gas mains has a lifespan of 99 years from what I'm told. I know we've used it since the early 70s and we've never experienced any failure from deterioration [save for some first year stuff. UV is still plastics worst enemy, as long as it's not in direct sunlight I'd bet it's lifespan is over 1/2 a century easy. FWIW, we've tested plastic gas piping and it failed around 600PSI, we test at 90PSI when we put in main or services.

A little flexibility is a good thing IMHO.

FWIW, copper lifespan is very dependent on it's surroundings and some water mineral makeups can make copper a poor choice.

I'll probably try PEX next time I do more then scattered repair work.

PEX is very close to what our gas piping is made out of from what I can see.
Link Posted: 7/7/2008 5:30:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

PEX is very close to what our gas piping is made out of from what I can see.


Most gas distribution is HDPE (High Denstity Polythylene).

The cross linking in PEX changes it very significantly.
Link Posted: 7/7/2008 5:35:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

PEX is very close to what our gas piping is made out of from what I can see.


Most gas distribution is HDPE (High Denstity Polythylene).

The cross linking in PEX changes it very significantly.


Most of the yellow piping isn't even HDPE anymore, the black was, the yellow is medium density. The wall thickness went from 60 to 90thou in the 5/8 size [1/2] but the rest stayed the same thickness.
Link Posted: 7/7/2008 9:22:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

PEX is very close to what our gas piping is made out of from what I can see.


Most gas distribution is HDPE (High Denstity Polythylene).

The cross linking in PEX changes it very significantly.


Most of the yellow piping isn't even HDPE anymore, the black was, the yellow is medium density. The wall thickness went from 60 to 90thou in the 5/8 size [1/2] but the rest stayed the same thickness.


I wouod barely consider anything below 2 inches as distribution piping...
Link Posted: 7/7/2008 9:28:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brickeyee:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By brickeyee:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

PEX is very close to what our gas piping is made out of from what I can see.


Most gas distribution is HDPE (High Denstity Polythylene).

The cross linking in PEX changes it very significantly.


Most of the yellow piping isn't even HDPE anymore, the black was, the yellow is medium density. The wall thickness went from 60 to 90thou in the 5/8 size [1/2] but the rest stayed the same thickness.


I wouod barely consider anything below 2 inches as distribution piping...


Smallest distribution is 1/14 stuff, at medium pressure it'll still run a decent amount of houses. Most of the smaller mains are 2" tho, really little need for bigger for offshoots from 4" or larger if medium pressure is used.

Standard pressure is where you run into sizing issues, 4" in the smallest used unless it's just a few houses on a cul de sac.
Link Posted: 7/7/2008 9:37:38 AM EDT
PEX is awesome, and easy to work with...

You will likely end up using some copper as well.
So Get Both!

Link Posted: 7/8/2008 7:40:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GSPatton:
PEX is awesome, and easy to work with...

You will likely end up using some copper as well.
So Get Both!

tinyurl.com/5pf4wh


Good looking install!
Link Posted: 7/10/2008 4:26:49 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Waldo0506:

2nd crimping pipes is just bad. In 40 years I predict pex will be the next polybutelyne. Crimping pipes is bad.

I sell the heck out of it, it makes a great fix for polybyutelene. I just don't trust a pipe that you crimp. If you remember back in the day polybutelyne (however you spell it) was the greatest thing since sliced bread, now millions of homes have bad plumbing. he Pex, as we know it, has been used with success in Europe since the the 70s. Failures are few and far between, less than Cu.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 5:25:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 5:42:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Darkhors5:

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:

2nd crimping pipes is just bad. In 40 years I predict pex will be the next polybutelyne. Crimping pipes is bad.

I sell the heck out of it, it makes a great fix for polybyutelene. I just don't trust a pipe that you crimp. If you remember back in the day polybutelyne (however you spell it) was the greatest thing since sliced bread, now millions of homes have bad plumbing.


Go back and look at the reason polybutlene was used, as a go around on the Pex patent. Not because polybutylene was better, but because someone could make more money on it. Shell lobbied hard to keep pex out. $ is the only real reason polybutylene was used.
Pex, as we know it, has been used with success in Europe since the the 70s. Failures are few and far between, less than Cu.


The acetel fittings used with polybutylene created most of the problem.

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 5:53:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 5:54:24 AM EDT by Hawken50]
just redid my 2nd floor bath with it. going to do the whole house.

i used "cinch" type rings because the one tool can do 1", 3/4", 1/2" and 3/8" fittings.



they've all been water tight, first try.

and the stuff is a breeze to install compared to anything else, IMHO.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 8:53:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 8:54:27 PM EDT by Jake-The-Snake]

Originally Posted By Hawken50:
just redid my 2nd floor bath with it. going to do the whole house.

i used "cinch" type rings because the one tool can do 1", 3/4", 1/2" and 3/8" fittings.

pexsupply.com/img/categoryImages/Wirsbo%20-%20Uponor%20SSC%20Clamp.jpg

they've all been water tight, first try.

and the stuff is a breeze to install compared to anything else, IMHO.


That is an Oetiker clamp. or what Wirsbo called "SSC".
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 5:23:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jake-The-Snake:

Originally Posted By Hawken50:
just redid my 2nd floor bath with it. going to do the whole house.

i used "cinch" type rings because the one tool can do 1", 3/4", 1/2" and 3/8" fittings.

pexsupply.com/img/categoryImages/Wirsbo%20-%20Uponor%20SSC%20Clamp.jpg

they've all been water tight, first try.

and the stuff is a breeze to install compared to anything else, IMHO.


That is an Oetiker clamp. or what Wirsbo called "SSC".



That's what I've used and have the tool for. Your thoughts on these clamps?
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