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Posted: 9/16/2005 12:59:03 AM EDT
They aren't the big 5 ton trucks (M923/939 Series) nor the older "Deuce and a Half (M35A2). Instead, they are a cabover design, that appears to be similar in size to a 2.5 ton truck. They have tall wheels and I'm pretty sure the truck doesn't even have dual rear wheels, just a single. One specific example of these trucks is the video that's been on the news the past few days of Bush and other officials riding around in the back of one.

What are these trucks? And are these the replacement for the old Deuce or some sort of specialty vehicle?
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:14:10 AM EDT
OK, looks like I just came across the answer, I think:



It's the M1078 2.5 ton cargo truck.

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:15:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 1:16:27 AM EDT by joker581]
Sounds like an LVS. I don't know what the Army calls them, but the Marine Corps has a ton of them. It accounts for more fatalities that all other Marine Corps trucks combined.

ETA: Nevermind, that's not it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:16:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
They aren't the big 5 ton trucks (M923/939 Series) nor the older "Deuce and a Half (M35A2). Instead, they are a cabover design, that appears to be similar in size to a 2.5 ton truck. They have tall wheels and I'm pretty sure the truck doesn't even have dual rear wheels, just a single. One specific example of these trucks is the video that's been on the news the past few days of Bush and other officials riding around in the back of one.

What are these trucks? And are these the replacement for the old Deuce or some sort of specialty vehicle?



I saw some odd looking trucks on fox today....they looked foreign, I was thinking maybe Mexican army, they might be still be in Orleans helping out.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:23:04 AM EDT
tis cool, I want one
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:24:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M38:
tis cool, I want one

So does Cooter the Looter.

I understand he's run out of beer.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:26:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
OK, looks like I just came across the answer, I think:

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m1078_color.jpg

It's the M1078 2.5 ton cargo truck.

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m1078-2.gif



Yes, its the FMTV.Much nicer riding than the older trucks.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:38:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 1:42:41 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]

Originally Posted By M38:
tis cool, I want one



Then you're in luck. You won't have to wait for these to be surplused. Go here and scroll down. They have new models built for the civilian market.

www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/01/07/001916.html



I'd hate to see the pricetag on one of those, but they are very nice looking trucks with a lot of capabilities.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:41:59 AM EDT
The Army started the FMTV (Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles) in the 90's to replace the older 2.5 and 5 ton cargo trucks. The reason was to get a truck that was easier to maintain and service, ans easier to deploy. The older cargos hadn't changed a whole lot since WWII/Korea really, and many the Army were using were Vietnam vintage as well. The objective was to have a cargo truck that was more reliable, shorter overall (hence the COE) for transportability, and cheaper to fix.

www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/fmtv-ref.htm

There were the usual problems that show up when you start fielding any new vehicle. There were some driveshaft failures due to harmonic problems, and some various other problems that cropped up, but nothing really out of the ordinary in any vehicle fielding program. The acid test of any truck it to let GI's drive the crap out of it in normal duty and you'll soon find the weak spots of ANY design. Overall though, they aren't a bad truck.

There's an armour kit, and several other contracts dealing with them have been awarded lately.

www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/09/still-armoring-those-fmtv-trucks/index.php
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:50:11 AM EDT
The only problem with them as far as I am concerned is that they sit so much higher than the old trucks. Not really a big deal as far as carrying troops; they come with a nice ladder and all for getting Joe up where he needs to go. Its loading equipment where it becomes a PITA. Easily solved by getting a forklift, but line companies by and large aren't going to have one of THOSE sitting around, so its back to muscle power.I can't speak as to the mechanical problems they've been having. We just got them in our area a year or two back. The transportation company thats moving into our armory is bringing a bunch with them.I'll see if they bring along forklifts and the like to help themselves out in the loading process.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 1:50:43 AM EDT
Would make a hell of a farm truck. Looks like a Pinzgauer on roids.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 2:52:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 2:54:15 AM EDT by 2A373]
I was just looking at one of those trucks yesterday (we have a couple Army Patriot missile batteries here where I'm at) and wondering what the model # and specs for it was. They are some tuff looking trucks.

Was also thinking that I'd like to take one for a spin off-road to see what it could do.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:02:11 AM EDT
We have not fielded them yet, but I have worked on them a good deal and am impressed. I still like the 923/939 series better, but they can't live forever and these are a decent replacement.

Cat 3126B engine, Allison automatic, the axles have a gear reduction at the hub allowing for a smaller differential for more graound clearance. The amount of specialized tools and diagnostic equipment needed to maintain them is larger than most vehicles, but coming from an Engineer background that is nothing new for me.

My biggest complaints are that the specailized versions, such as the dump and wrecker, do not have the same capabilities as thier 900 series conterparts.

Then again, they do have a version now (HIMARS) with a MLRS pod mounted on it..... it can drive out of a C-130 or C-17 and be putting rockets on target in around 5 minutes.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:29:51 AM EDT
they are a nice ride, I"m licensed to drive both the 2 and 3 axle versions.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:36:36 AM EDT
They've been around for quite a while. I've seen them on the highway for years now. They sport a big old Mercedes emblem on the grill
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:40:45 AM EDT
Mercedes?

I had read on some site that they were made by Stewart and Stevenson of Sealy, TX. Perhaps they were just the company who takes these basic trucks and converts them to suit civilian needs.

Ah well, looks like every damn thing we are buying these days for the military is foreign designed...weapons, helicopters, etc.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:44:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 3:46:48 AM EDT by Nick710]
Newbushmaster,

I bet there are only two of us on this whole board that know what a Pinzgauer is. However, I disagree with you assessment of the truck. Looks more like a Blonde d' Aquitaine to me.

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:46:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 3:49:17 AM EDT by nationwide]

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Mercedes?

I had read on some site that they were made by Stewart and Stevenson of Sealy, TX. Perhaps they were just the company who takes these basic trucks and converts them to suit civilian needs.

Ah well, looks like every damn thing we are buying these days for the military is foreign designed...weapons, helicopters, etc.



Stewart and Stevenson is a big distributor and maintenance chain for various construction/power equipment in Texas. They have shops all over.

www.ssss.com/home/


Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc., founded in 1902, is a billion-dollar company that manufactures, distributes, and provides service for a wide range of industrial products and diesel-powered equipment to key industries worldwide, including power generation, defense, marine, petroleum and transportation. For more information on Stewart & Stevenson visit http://www.ssss.com .



Maybe the are putting them together? Come to think of it, I think they DO have manufacturing facility on I-10 west of Houston? Hmm...

But I'm certain the ones I saw had the Mercedes logo on the grill.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:55:16 AM EDT
Give the guys what they need, but it makes you feel old when all the things that screamed American Military is going away.

F-14, M 113, Deuce 1/2, Huey and the list goes on....
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:00:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Mercedes?

I had read on some site that they were made by Stewart and Stevenson of Sealy, TX. Perhaps they were just the company who takes these basic trucks and converts them to suit civilian needs.

Ah well, looks like every damn thing we are buying these days for the military is foreign designed...weapons, helicopters, etc.



Stewart and Stevenson is a big distributor and maintenance chain for various construction/power equipment in Texas. They have shops all over.

www.ssss.com/home/


Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc., founded in 1902, is a billion-dollar company that manufactures, distributes, and provides service for a wide range of industrial products and diesel-powered equipment to key industries worldwide, including power generation, defense, marine, petroleum and transportation. For more information on Stewart & Stevenson visit http://www.ssss.com .



Maybe the are putting them together? Come to think of it, I think they DO have manufacturing facility on I-10 west of Houston? Hmm...

But I'm certain the ones I saw had the Mercedes logo on the grill.



The way things get sold in parts and pieced together these days, perhaps some of the components are Mercedes built. It's possible they might use a Mercedes chassis (and/or engine) and make or get other components from someone else, then assemble them all into a vehicle at one of their plants.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:10:24 AM EDT
there is also a small truck that the marines have thats is made by Mercedes
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:12:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
They've been around for quite a while. I've seen them on the highway for years now. They sport a big old Mercedes emblem on the grill




I know for sure the ones I have seen did NOT have a Mercedes emblem on them.


This is from Stewart & Stevenson's website;

Stewart & Stevenson Tactical Vehicle Systems, LP (TVS) designs, manufactures and supports the Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles (FMTV) for the U.S. Army and other customers worldwide. The FMTV family of vehicles includes sixteen variants on two basic platforms, the 4 X 4 Light Medium Tactical Vehicle (LMTV) and the 6 X 6 Medium Tactical Vehicle (MTV), with about 85% parts commonality across the FMTV family.

The FMTV has set new worldwide tactical vehicle standards for capability, reliability, mobility, and transportability, and continues to boast the highest percent availability of any vehicle in the U.S. Army tactical vehicle fleet. TVS has manufactured approximately 25,000 FMTV vehicles since the start of the program in 1988.



www.ssss.com/Home/Products/TacticalVehicles/FMTV/?pm=1601
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:13:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nick710:
Newbushmaster,

I bet there are only two of us on this whole board that know what a Pinzgauer is. However, I disagree with you assessment of the truck. Looks more like a Blonde d' Aquitaine to me.




add 1, I know what a Pinzi is... they run in same circles as Unimog owners (I had 2 404.114 'mogs)
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:29:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 4:30:30 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Mercedes has nothing to do with these vehicles.

And I know what a Pinz is.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:56:37 AM EDT
Guys, go up one level on their web site. here

Looks like they bought the Pinzgauer

Stewart & Stevenson Tactical Vehicle Systems, LP (TVS), a segment of Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc., designs, manufactures, tests and supports tactical and specialist vehicles from their principal facility in Sealy, Texas. The TVS facility is a 200 acre single campus located about 60 miles west of Houston, and includes a manufacturing / production area of over 500,000 square feet, a large Electrodeposition (E-Coat) primer operation, a fabrication center, and 1.3 mile hi-speed, all-weather track and test area, fully integrated with the Production, Engineering, Integrated Logistics Support and AfterMarket Services organizations. Equally important are the engineering tools, simulation and analysis capabilities that allow digital design, integration, and test prior to fabrication.

TVS manufactures to quality levels approaching Six Sigma, and is a leader in LEAN manufacturing technology.

Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc. acquired the outstanding shares of Automotive Technik Holdings Limited (“ATL”), the United Kingdom-based manufacturer of the Pinzgauer light utility vehicle on April 8, 2005.

The Pinzgauer vehicle is generally regarded as the most advanced and mobile light utility vehicle in its class with an installed base of over 30,000 vehicles. ATL began manufacturing the vehicle in the late 1990s in Guildford, England. In addition to the standard 4 X 4 and a 6 X 6 configuration, ATL recently added a new Pinzgauer X-M (X-treme Mobility) model and an armored 6 X 6 variant. ATL has won major contracts in competitive tenders from the UK Ministry of Defence and the New Zealand Ministry of Defence, and is involved in a number of additional programs worldwide.

In addition to the Pinzgauer manufacturing operations, ATL has a division that specializes in development, test and applications engineering activities and a specialist equipment fabrication and body building operation. Both the engineering and fabrication units currently support the Pinzgauer manufacturing operations as well as external military and civilian customers.

Stewart & Stevenson Tactical Vehicle Systems
5000 I-10 West
Sealy, TX 77474, USA
Telephone: (979) 885-2977
Toll Free: (800) 221-3688
Fax: (979) 885-7910

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 5:18:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ECM242:
Give the guys what they need, but it makes you feel old when all the things that screamed American Military is going away.

F-14, M 113, Deuce 1/2, Huey and the list goes on....



Just a sign that you've been around a while. I am sure that there was a time when some military personnel were sad to see various models of cannon, wooden sailing ships, single shot rifles, horse cavalry, etc, go away.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:06:23 AM EDT

The price tag for the Bad Boy ranges from under $200,000 to $750,000, with the higher price tag for a model equipped with the full nuclear, chemical and biological detection and protection package.


Dat's a lot of money.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:13:25 AM EDT
I think the new trucks look wimpy when compared to the classics like the M35A2.

But I could just be prejudiced..



Sam B.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:23:08 AM EDT
The trucks with the Mercedes emblem is probably a Unimog. A lot of them are being sold surplus (Pinz's too) They're more expensive than a surplus deuce, but not by much. 7K range for a pristine one vs 4K for the deuce.

My buddy bought a Swedish army Unimog for 6K, had 1114 Kilometers on the odometer, and was stored indoors. .

Painted in standard NATO woodland camo, it even came with snow chains and a whisk broom
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:28:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nick710:
Newbushmaster,

I bet there are only two of us on this whole board that know what a Pinzgauer is. However, I disagree with you assessment of the truck. Looks more like a Blonde d' Aquitaine to me.





You'd be surprised. I'd bet there's at least two who own a Pinzie.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:31:52 AM EDT
They could be the Mexican Army trucks.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:42:15 AM EDT


The International MXT.
Express yourself. Impress everyone else
.



If you want to blend in, try wearing camouflage. But if you want to stand out, put yourself behind the wheel of an International MXT. But this truck isn’t form over function. It's form and function. So beyond looks that are harder to ignore than a solar eclipse, you get a vehicle that delivers performance, comfort and ride that put mere pickups to shame.



GVW Range: 14,001 lbs

Payload Capacity: 4 tons

Off-Road Capability: 4x4

Drivetrain: Up to 300 horsepower

Drivetrain: Up to 300 horsepower

Exterior Features:4x4 Crew Cab; 7-foot pickup bed; low entry height w/ swingout steps

Interior features: DVD player; navigation system; 4 hi-back racing seats w/ 4 point seat belts; tinted windows; premium sound system; carpet



I like this one better!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:43:28 AM EDT
I thought they were having problems (at least when they first went into line units) where they were eating gears in the transmissions and drive line.

Anyone know if this has been fixed?

BTW, JSF-31 was a M35A2 that I drove in Korea in 91 that was buillt in 1967. Even though it gave me problems, I loved that truck. It was so old, that it had a SERIOUS problem with power. It was officially nicknamed "The Gutless Wonder". Finally replaced with "The War Wagon" JSF-38 - a refitted and turbocharged bastard that asked no questions, and performed with elan.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:44:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 6:49:13 AM EDT by blackta6]
I am speaking from experience, they are underpowered and built shotily! I was in the first IA National Guard unit to receive the FMTVs from S&S in 1996, and they are a nightmare! The cab is weak and passengers will die in a roll over. Harmonics, as mentioned earlier are an issue, most will drop the front driveshaft and try to "pogo" onto the front of the cab. If that doesn't happen, the transmission's flywheel cover will crack and it will all just fall out! They are now using those new fangled rubber bushings called "motor mounts", but have yet to transfer that technology to the trany mounts.

Oh and don't expect the 5 ton frame to be used on anything, they bend easier then the aluminum in the cab! While deployed to OIF we were not allowed to travel into Iraq based on the fact that this vehicle pasted the 300 miles on one tank of fuel by traveling at a speed of 25 mph!

RUN AWAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK, YOU WILL LIVE LONGER!
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:49:24 AM EDT
Made by the good people of Sealy, Texas, not too far from me.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:51:56 AM EDT
Stewart & Stevenson also holds the rights to sell the G-Wagon (Gelandewagen) - not G500, to US .gov/ mil.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:54:33 AM EDT
Something else we copied from the Russians.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:58:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
I had read on some site that they were made by Stewart and Stevenson of Sealy, TX. Perhaps they were just the company who takes these basic trucks and converts them to suit civilian needs.



They are - it's just on the freeway west of Houston. Tons of tons of these trucks.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 6:58:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackta6:
I am speaking from experience, they are underpowered and built shotily! I was in the first IA National Guard unit to receive the FMTVs from S&S in 1996, and they are a nightmare! The cab is weak and passengers will die in a roll over. Harmonics, as mentioned earlier are an issue, most will drop the front driveshaft and try to "pogo" onto the front of the cab. If that doesn't happen, the transmission's flywheel cover will crack and it will all just fall out! They are now using those new fangled rubber bushings called "motor mounts", but have yet to transfer that technology to the trany mounts.

Oh and don't expect the 5 ton frame to be used on anything, they bend easier then the aluminum in the cab! While deployed to OIF we were not allowed to travel into Iraq based on the fact that this vehicle pasted the 300 miles on one tank of fuel by traveling at a speed of 25 mph!

RUN AWAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK, YOU WILL LIVE LONGER!



My head hurts just reading this!

I am no fan of the MTV series - in fact, I talk shit wih our Stewart and Stevenson Engineer every chance I get - but the early "don't drive over 35" harmonics problems are ancient history. Also, there are thousands in Iraq - your story confuses me.

LMTVs are the workhorse of the Army here in Iraq - and were my ONLY gun truck platform for the drive up from Kuwait, through Baghdad, and past Tall Afar. We have a shitload of M1114s now, though.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:29:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Then again, they do have a version now (HIMARS) with a MLRS pod mounted on it..... it can drive out of a C-130 or C-17 and be putting rockets on target in around 5 minutes.





SWEEEEEEEET!


FMRSBA?


Family of Medium Rocket-Shooting Bad Ass



"Grid square eliminator, now in a more portable design!"
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:47:15 AM EDT
LMTV and LMV vehicle s are built by Stewart and Stevenson of Texas, they are based on an Austrian Design used by the Austrian Army!

The LMTV is a 4 wheeled 2.5 ton cabover design and the LMV is the six wheeled 5 ton!

There is also a tractor trailer cab type a Wrecker type, tnaker types and a Dump truck design.

The air Dropable version the roof and windows collapse to fit in the cargo planes better.

My Little Brother drives them. He says they climb through culverts etc like a billy goat!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:51:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Something else we copied from the Russians.
legion.wplus.net/guide/army/tr/gaz66-1.jpg


Other than being a cab-over design, what makes you think we copy anything from the Russians?
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:07:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 9:13:29 AM EDT by doc_Zox]
new skool:

http://sigmund.biz/kat/kat111Picture409.jpg
http://sigmund.biz/kat/DSC_7566.JPG
olde skool:


sigmund.biz/kat/index0016.html
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:07:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 8:15:14 AM EDT by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Something else we copied from the Russians.
legion.wplus.net/guide/army/tr/gaz66-1.jpg


Other than being a cab-over design, what makes you think we copy anything from the Russians?



Look familiar? I was told, when I was making wings for the B1, that we were beating the Russians into the air with a version of their own aircraft.

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:12:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 8:14:20 AM EDT by SheepDog_556]
For the "What's a Pinzi?" crowd:


712M



Pinzgauer

Pinzgauer.org


Sheep
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:36:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:17:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ross:
The Army started the FMTV (Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles)

The USA should go to war constantly. Otherwise, our military will waste itself away on acronyms and PowerPoint presentations.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
Stewart and Stevenson is a big distributor and maintenance chain for various construction/power equipment in Texas. They have shops all over.

www.ssss.com/home/

You can see their factory from the highway when you travel through I-10 near Katy, TX.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:20:46 AM EDT
mtv version ..

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 9:48:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 1:44:15 PM EDT by DirtyDon]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Something else we copied from the Russians.
legion.wplus.net/guide/army/tr/gaz66-1.jpg



That's a Ministry of Foreign Affairs truck. Nice.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 10:13:49 AM EDT
I'm still partial to the LR 101's. Outdated for sure, but still great trucks.
(I'm currently thinking about buying one...)

www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/101.htm
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