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Posted: 1/3/2004 6:14:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 6:31:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 6:32:16 AM EDT by Hannah_Reitsch]
Actually, some scientists are suggesting that the exponential increase in Alzheimer's cases over the last few decades may, indeed, be due to CJD. Symptoms and pathology is very similar between the two.

There could be a lot more of this out there, as CJD has a very long incubation period.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 6:37:55 AM EDT
Beef......It's whats for dinner.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 6:58:57 AM EDT
The problem with koch's postulate is that prions are not a replicating vector like viri and bacteria. In fact they are proteins that are capable of assuming multiple conformational states (think of a transformers toy here it can be a plane, half plane, or humanoid form) such as alpha-helical, unstructured or beta-sheet forms. Usually it is the beta sheet state that is pathogenic. The mechanism of this that that the beta sheet state induces simialar states in your bodies own proteins that are capable of adopting multiple conformations. So what ends up happening is that your proteins eventually get locked in one state and then they all start to clump (aggragate) together and they form inclusion bodies in your cells which is thought to kill the cells.

But back to the koch postulate. The prion does not reproduce thus it will never pass that test. It basically acts as a catalyst in cells turning their proteins into prion like proteins which may get exported to other cells.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:12:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
[size=4]Still No Beef to Mad Cow Mania[/size=4]


It could very well be that some virus or bacterium is responsible for the mad cow-type diseases ¯ but we might not ever know if NIH persists with its tunnel-vision.
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Possibly a virus, I suppose. Not a bacterium as that would be easier to identify and isolate. I do wonder if there is a virus assoc with it though we have never isolated one or found any nucleic acids assoc with it. Could be something that intercalates into the host chromosome but yet again, for it to be transferred it would have to be released from the cell with its nucleic acids in some way. Perhaps it requires a "helper virus" for transmission. This is not unheard of and I have considered this as well. In the long run, however, it matters little to consumers as prevention is the key. A cure is NOT likely to be forthcoming and there are useful tests to identify those carrying the disease.



Eric The(Unconcered)Hun[>]:)]
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You should be.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:22:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 7:22:28 AM EDT by danonly]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Steven Milloy is the publisher of JunkScience.com, an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and the author of Junk Science Judo: Self-Defense Against Health Scares and Scams (Cato Institute, 2001).

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107188,00.html
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He sounds like he got funded from the beef industry for this article.


Eric The(Unconcered)Hun[>]:)]
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Going French on us, mr. [red]unconcered?[/red]
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:24:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch:
Actually, some scientists are suggesting that the exponential increase in Alzheimer's cases over the last few decades may, indeed, be due to CJD. Symptoms and pathology is very similar between the two.

There could be a lot more of this out there, as CJD has a very long incubation period.
View Quote


I couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:26:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:29:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:38:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 7:45:36 AM EDT by llanero]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
I should be concerned?

Weren't there stories of American hunters who ate elk meat and acquired BSE or nvCJD within the last decade, or so?

Eric The(LivingLikeThere'sNoTomorrow)Hun[>]:)]
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The elk/deer version is Chronic Wasting Disease and  the sheep/goat version is Scrapies, both of which are classified under Transmissible Spongiform Encelopathy.

Don't forget about the hillgentlemen who contracted CJD throught the consumption of squirrel brains.  The only thing that has kept me from this fate it the fact that after bagging a squirrel, most of its brains are scattered amongst the forest floor litter.

There is no doubt that this pesky little prion will be found in more critters.  Stay away from eating brains and spinal cords!
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:49:08 AM EDT
I should not drive down Central Expressway to the Market Hall Gun Show today, then, for my chances of dying in an automobile accident on the way there are infinitely greater than dying from BSE or nvCJD, I would think!
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Couldn't agree more.  In fact, I would suggest that the number of beef-eaters, that were scared into becoming vegans, and subsequently died in a car accident on their way to the nuts and berry store, is probably higher than the 150 nvCJD cases over the last decade.

Now that flesh-eating bacteria, on the other hand, gives me the willies! [shock]
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:50:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 7:51:09 AM EDT by Old_Painless]
Some mad cows...

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=21145[/img]
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:50:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from danonly -
Going French on us, mr. unconcered?
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Pardonez moi, [b]danonly[/b], but unless you are an attractive young lady, I think you should be quite unconcerned about me 'going French' on you!

[:D]

Eric The(Merci,Beaucoup)Hun[>]:)]
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SICK!


I was merely making fun of your spelling, it sounded french.

Link Posted: 1/3/2004 8:31:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 8:37:23 AM EDT by fredshort]
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Some mad cows...

[url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=21145[/url]
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What we really need is the Mad Cow link from a few months ago. Just remember DON'T open in public!!!

Fred

I found it:www.tsen.org/graphics/MadCow.swf

scratch that idea, I couldn't open it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 9:32:24 AM EDT
Looking at the replies and where you "say" you are from, only a few are from the recall states.  Oregon is on the recall list, but nothing "way back east" IIRC.

You want a reality check?  I live "up the road" from Mabton, WA.  Just about 1.5 hours way (more like 2 now w/ the snow).  My local paper has had at least 5 front page stories (if not more) on this in the last 15 days.  And this cow that was found...it had a calf... unfortunatly, they don't know WHICH one it is... and there is no proof that this can be passed down to the offspring (so they say as of now.)

I've got friends who raise cattle.  Just a few months ago, the price at market was .95/lb and that dropped to about .75/lb, a big jump.  The .95/lb was was a new market high.... raising cattle was "good" for once, again.

Shoot, they said that the cow was from Canada, was about 6 years old...so it could have been part of the last batch of cows that got this in Canada.  And there were more cows that came to the US from Canada w/ this one.  IIRC, they said like 85 came in and only 11 have been acounted for.  They're not sure if any of the 85 are contaminated, BUT they are not ruling out that the 85 may have shared contaminated feed.

As long as none of the Canadian ones got farther into the US, a local cow (example) in TX butchered for meat is safe.  Diddo w/ other states.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 9:36:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By llanero:

The elk/deer version is Chronic Wasting Disease and  the sheep/goat version is Scrapies, both of which are classified under Transmissible Spongiform Encelopathy.

Don't forget about the [red]hillgentlemen[/red] who contracted CJD throught the consumption of squirrel brains.  The only thing that has kept me from this fate it the fact that after bagging a squirrel, most of its brains are scattered amongst the forest floor litter.

There is no doubt that this pesky little prion will be found in more critters.  Stay away from eating brains and spinal cords!
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[ROFL2]
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 10:23:32 AM EDT
ETH, you need to read a book or two on the subject. It will scare the Bejeebus out of you..

The disease was first identified in cannibals, who had a fondness for human brains.

Basically, the disease occurs naturally in about one in a million mammals. The only way it can spread is when another mammal eats the diseased tissue from the prion infected animal. The funny thing is, that cows would be immune to it, if people would just stop feeding them meat products.  It's just another example of human greed screwing up the natural order of things.

There have been extensive tests done on monkeys and other mammals where the prions were injected after being subjected to great amounts of heat, radiation, etc. The prions survived- the mammals didn't.

Think of the vast amount of money to be lost by the catttle industry. If anything, this subject has been minimised, not hyped.

As stated, the incubation period for humans is measured in decades, so thousands could have it.

It could be what got Ronnie Reagan, and Chuck Heston.  Matter of fact, it could be some liberal-commie-clinton conspiracy.  Why do you think they are all Vegetarians?  huh? huh?
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