What Alexis de Tocqueville had to say about Islam...

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What Alexis de Tocqueville had to say about Islam...

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:00:22 PM EDT

Just another intolerant Islamophobe lashing out at the Religion of Peace. I say that he should be banned from ARFCOM immediately!

I studied the Quran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.

FYI: For those unfamiliar with de Tocqueville, I suggest that you make haste in picking up a copy of "Democracy in America."

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:05:15 PM EDT

[#1]

Montesqiue had similarly bleak things to say about Islam. And he liked pretty much every other religion to some degree.

Of course, that was back when people took ideas seriously.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:05:54 PM EDT

[#2]

just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:08:07 PM EDT

[#3]

ibtl.

historical figures who say bad things about islam get threads locked.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:13:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Especially for the Spanish who survived 600+ years of brutal opression under Islamic rule until Queen Isabella and King Ferdinan expelled the Moors in 1491. And to give thanks, they entertained an Italian guy with a plan to sail the oceans...and now you know the rest of the story....

Oh, did I forget something? The Inquisition? Yes, that was a backlash to reclaim Spain and make sure it would never fall to a "religion of peace" again.

And now that is the rest of the story.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:14:54 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Especially for the Spanish who survived 600+ years of brutal opression under Islamic rule until Queen Isabella and King Ferdinan expelled the Moors in 1491. And to give thanks, they entertained an Italian guy with a plan to sail the oceans...and now you know the rest of the story....

Oh, did I forget something? The Inquisition? Yes, that was a backlash to reclaim Spain and make sure it would never fall to a "religion of peace" again.

And now that is the rest of the story.

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:19:05 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:21:31 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:23:53 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

Read Ceasar's autobiography on his Gallic campaign. War is brutal.

If the Europeans really wanted to commit genocide they could have done so at any time. They had the means and the will to do so.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:24:02 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

So that makes genocide ok in your book???

He was saying Islam was decadent and a bylthe on mankind... but he totally ignores that Chirstians (specially the spainards) were engaging in the exact same barbarity at the same time. It's bias and hypocritical at the very least.

ETA: he's singling out Islam just because he is xenophobic.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:25:44 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Especially for the Spanish who survived 600+ years of brutal opression under Islamic rule until Queen Isabella and King Ferdinan expelled the Moors in 1491. And to give thanks, they entertained an Italian guy with a plan to sail the oceans...and now you know the rest of the story....

Oh, did I forget something? The Inquisition? Yes, that was a backlash to reclaim Spain and make sure it would never fall to a "religion of peace" again.

And now that is the rest of the story.

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

Who are "we"? You don't know squat about the Americas. Look at Mexico and below for [sarcasm]outstanding[/sarcasm] treatment of Paleo-Americans. My soul is pure because the treaty with the Native Texans made by Meusebach is still standing today. And that would be the Fredricksburg TX settlement, of which I am a descendant.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:28:23 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Especially for the Spanish who survived 600+ years of brutal opression under Islamic rule until Queen Isabella and King Ferdinan expelled the Moors in 1491. And to give thanks, they entertained an Italian guy with a plan to sail the oceans...and now you know the rest of the story....

Oh, did I forget something? The Inquisition? Yes, that was a backlash to reclaim Spain and make sure it would never fall to a "religion of peace" again.

And now that is the rest of the story.

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

Who are "we"? You don't know squat about the Americas. Look at Mexico and below for [sarcasm]outstanding[/sarcasm] treatment of Paleo-Americans. My soul is pure because the treaty with the Native Texans made by Meusebach is still standing today. And that would be the Fredricksburg TX settlement, of which I am a descendant.

"We" would mean the west. And as for not knowing shit about the americas... you are wrong. The native peoples of South America and Central america due have brutal histories, conquering each other several times (pre-dating the spainish arrival).

However, just because they were brutal to each other, didnt give us the right to come in and be more brutal to them.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:28:57 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

So that makes genocide ok in your book???

He was saying Islam was decadent and a bylthe on mankind... but he totally ignores that Chirstians (specially the spainards) were engaging in the exact same barbarity at the same time. It's bias and hypocritical at the very least.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of genocide.

You cannot compare as a blanket what De Tocqueville believed and what the King of Spain did. De Tocqueville and the rest of the enlightenment philosophers saw many redeaming features in Christianity, and many other religions for that matter. They never believed it to be perfect - in fact they were often quite critical of religion - and never expected men to be saints. They, however, saw nothing redeaming in Islam, and it can be argued that the past 300 years have proven them correct.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:30:34 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:

So that makes genocide ok in your book???

He was saying Islam was decadent and a bylthe on mankind... but he totally ignores that Chirstians (specially the spainards) were engaging in the exact same barbarity at the same time. It's bias and hypocritical at the very least.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of genocide.

You cannot compare as a blanket what De Tocqueville believed and what the King of Spain did. De Tocqueville and the rest of the enlightenment philosophers saw many redeaming features in Christianity, and many other religions for that matter. They never believed it to be perfect - in fact they were often quite critical of religion - and never expected men to be saints. They, however, saw nothing redeaming in Islam, and it can be argued that the past 300 years have proven them correct.

Or, believing that could just mean you are an ass. YMMV

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:33:43 PM EDT

[#14]

Compare the Native Americans living in Mexico to those living here. The government of Mexico forced the Natives into the worst land possible. Those Natives who interbred with Spainards were forced inot the land marginally better. Only pure Spainards were allowed to get the best land and then they established feudal systems, keeping the Meztizos in abject poverty TO THIS VERY DAY! THIS IS WHY WE HAVE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!

Now do the Natives in Mexico have casinos? Oil revenue off their land? Government handouts?

Outcome is the difference. Everyone dies, its the legacy you leave behind that matters.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:34:18 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

So that makes genocide ok in your book???

He was saying Islam was decadent and a bylthe on mankind... but he totally ignores that Chirstians (specially the spainards) were engaging in the exact same barbarity at the same time. It's bias and hypocritical at the very least.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of genocide.

You cannot compare as a blanket what De Tocqueville believed and what the King of Spain did. De Tocqueville and the rest of the enlightenment philosophers saw many redeaming features in Christianity, and many other religions for that matter. They never believed it to be perfect - in fact they were often quite critical of religion - and never expected men to be saints. They, however, saw nothing redeaming in Islam, and it can be argued that the past 300 years have proven them correct.

Or, believing that could just mean you are an ass. YMMV

Ahhh. Now I understand. You are a recent graduate of the public school system. My first clue was that you saw everything in terms of "hypocracy," which is the lefty teacher's favorite sin because by definition it only applies to people who adhere to a moral code. Then, you proved your stripes when you followed up your disjointed arguments with an ad hominem attack. But, as another poster noted, the public schools are now implementing a five curse-word a day limit. You are now down to four so use them sparingly.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:40:26 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

So that makes genocide ok in your book???

He was saying Islam was decadent and a bylthe on mankind... but he totally ignores that Chirstians (specially the spainards) were engaging in the exact same barbarity at the same time. It's bias and hypocritical at the very least.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of genocide.

You cannot compare as a blanket what De Tocqueville believed and what the King of Spain did. De Tocqueville and the rest of the enlightenment philosophers saw many redeaming features in Christianity, and many other religions for that matter. They never believed it to be perfect - in fact they were often quite critical of religion - and never expected men to be saints. They, however, saw nothing redeaming in Islam, and it can be argued that the past 300 years have proven them correct.

Or, believing that could just mean you are an ass. YMMV

Ahhh. Now I understand. You are a recent graduate of the public school system. My first clue was that you saw everything in terms of "hypocracy," which is the lefty teacher's favorite sin because by definition it only applies to people who adhere to a moral code. Then, you proved your stripes when you followed up your disjointed arguments with an ad hominem attack. But, as another poster noted, the public schools are now implementing a five curse-word a day limit. You are now down to four so use them sparingly.

Nope... got it wrong my man. I went to private school (catholic no less).

College graduate.

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:41:28 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Montesqiue had similarly bleak things to say about Islam. And he liked pretty much every other religion to some degree.

Of course, that was back when people took ideas seriously.

Good call Cynic! Another "oldie but goodie"...

It is a misfortune to human nature, when religion is given by a conqueror. The Mahometan religion, which speaks only by the sword, acts still upon men with that destructive spirit with which it was founded.

-- Spirit of the Laws, Book XXIV, Chapter IV

BAN HIM TOO!!!

Posted: 8/29/2005 9:47:51 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Nope... got it wrong my man. I went to private school (catholic no less).

College graduate.

Get a refund.

Posted: 8/29/2005 10:22:01 PM EDT

[#19]

And yes... I read the de Tocqueville quote in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (And the Crusades)

I recommend it as a highly readable primer on the true nature of Islam.

Posted: 8/29/2005 10:48:12 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

Throwing around words like genocide where they don’t fit just makes you look sound shrill and ignorant… which you have already proven in your comments. The treatment may have been harsh by today’s standards but was the norm for past centuries but was certainly not genocide. Exploited and abused are correct genocide is hyperbolic nonsense.

FYI the Spanish encouraged intermarriage between the Spanish colonist and the natives… now that is no way to commit genocide.

PC ignorance and catch phrases do not substitute for real historical insights.

Posted: 8/29/2005 10:58:07 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

All this hatred of your own culture and ancestors must be very wearing on a man.

Anglos in America had nothing to teach the Indians about murder and atrocity. They slaughtered one another man, woman and child at regular intervals, or did you think the Anasazi just packed their baskets and headed out to higher cliffs one day. And there was no mass murder like an Aztec ritual. Thousands at a time would have their arteries opened to celebrate some thirsty god or some holiday. The Spaniards paled in comparison, and could bring only the most mundane shootings and stabbings to the table: pretty weak stuff...damned near civilized by comparison.

Posted: 8/29/2005 11:21:25 PM EDT

[#22]

is it just me or have we got a load of brainless asshats these days or what?

geeze it happened hundreds of years ago, its done, no one can undo it. And in light of recent events what that guy (cant spell the name) said is very true indeed.

Posted: 8/29/2005 11:27:04 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
is it just me or have we got a load of brainless asshats these days or what?

geeze it happened hundreds of years ago, its done, no one can undo it. And in light of recent events what that guy (cant spell the name) said is very true indeed.

WolfAR15... you're a "Bookaholic" yet you are unfimilar with "that guy (cant spell the name)"???

Posted: 8/29/2005 11:43:34 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
is it just me or have we got a load of brainless asshats these days or what?

geeze it happened hundreds of years ago, its done, no one can undo it. And in light of recent events what that guy (cant spell the name) said is very true indeed.

Wow someone that has it right.

Posted: 8/30/2005 12:01:16 AM EDT

[#25]

tag

Posted: 8/30/2005 12:42:30 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

Sure, tell that to the Conquestadors, who were horrified and shocked at the practices of the Aztecs. The Aztecs would raid neighboring city-states for prisoners so they could cut their hearts out while still alive. The Aztecs once killed 25,000 of their neighbors in a single weekend. The Natives weren't all that peacefull either. If they had muskets and were the ones to inflict a disease on the Spanards, what do you think they would have done to them?

Posted: 8/30/2005 1:49:42 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Ahhh. Now I understand. You are a recent graduate of the public school system. My first clue was that you saw everything in terms of "hypocracy," which is the lefty teacher's favorite sin because by definition it only applies to people who adhere to a moral code. Then, you proved your stripes when you followed up your disjointed arguments with an ad hominem attack. But, as another poster noted, the public schools are now implementing a five curse-word a day limit. You are now down to four so use them sparingly.

Ouch, thats gonna leave a mark.

Posted: 8/30/2005 2:04:21 AM EDT

[#28]

Have zero problem with the Muslim faith, as I have said before I know of Muslims defending this country and know Muslims in my personal life.

Than again I do not know any Muslim from a third world country, but many Christians from these shitty countries are just as extreme, also freaking Hindus in India. Knew a Muslim in India and would talk about how Muslims and Hindus would fire bomb each other.

But it was usually in the shitty areas where the religious leaders ran the populace.

Posted: 8/30/2005 2:53:31 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Ah, more historical ignorance from the usual wellspring of the same.

Posted: 8/30/2005 4:30:16 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

King Ferdinand and Queeen Isabella had absolutely nothing to do with any alleged 'genocide' of any native Americans!

Get your history facts correct, Son, before you start making rude comments blindly.

Eric The(Historical)Hun

Posted: 8/30/2005 4:41:19 AM EDT

[#31]

There was a little village that the Spanish Conquistadors found while they were making their way to Tenochtitlan, about four miles distance from that city.

In the native language, the village's name was 'The line started here.'

What 'line'?

Well, it appears that when the Aztecs had consecrated one of their temples in the city, they used the blood from their own captured 'native American' prisoners to 'dedicate' the temple.

The line of prisoners that were bound and destined for this gruesome ceremony reached the village, and that is how the village came to be known as 'The line started here.'

Awesome, eh? 'Four miles of hapless victims!'

And god-awful.

Yep, a real paradise for native Americans, this New World was.

Eric The(YouMove,YouLose,YouDon'tMoveFastEnough,YouDie)Hun

Posted: 8/30/2005 4:59:45 AM EDT

[#32]

I think the difference being illustrated here is that Christians who have done bad things throughout history didn't do them because their religion told them too, but because they were just bad people. Of course their have been bad Christians, as there has been good muslims. I am no expert on the Koran, but it seems to me that maltreatment of women and violent extremism is FAR more rapant in Islamic cultures than in Christian ones. Of course, we had the crusades, but intilligent Christians put a stop to that crap LONG ago. Why is it that the islamic societies can't pull themselves out of the freakin dark ages?

Any culture that uses "village rape" as a punishment for women, punishes women when they are raped and murders them if they kill their rapist in self-defense is seriously FUBAR.

Posted: 8/30/2005 5:05:25 AM EDT

[#33]

Glock40guy will be defending islam to the last, even as some ROPer is removing his head from his torso with a dull blade....

Posted: 8/30/2005 5:11:30 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

No different from the way they treated each other already.

Posted: 8/30/2005 5:14:17 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Or, believing that could just mean you are an ass. YMMV

I believe the qualification for that label would go to the person introducing logical fallacies into the discussion, rather than discussing the main point.

Posted: 8/30/2005 5:16:53 AM EDT

[#36]

Please don't feed the (public school uneducated) troll!

Thank you.

Posted: 8/30/2005 6:17:52 AM EDT

[#37]

It seems like that August through November period from the election last year has resulted in a lot of DU trolls who have had quite some longevity here given our more open moderating.

I'm happy to see it continue.

The more one of these idiots posts, the more plainly we come to see the absurdity of the liberal take on things.

Posted: 8/30/2005 6:48:10 AM EDT

[#38]

So, is glockguy40 the "only one here qualified to use this here Glock forty?"

Posted: 8/30/2005 7:44:30 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
just another xenophobe

ETA: common for his time.

Especially for the Spanish who survived 600+ years of brutal opression under Islamic rule until Queen Isabella and King Ferdinan expelled the Moors in 1491. And to give thanks, they entertained an Italian guy with a plan to sail the oceans...and now you know the rest of the story....

Oh, did I forget something? The Inquisition? Yes, that was a backlash to reclaim Spain and make sure it would never fall to a "religion of peace" again.

And now that is the rest of the story.

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

Who's we? Are you 150 years old glockguy? When are you gonna leave the continent and return your little slice of property back to the "native americans?"

Posted: 8/30/2005 7:46:01 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Yes ... he wrote that right around the time we were committing genocide against the native americans. The irony.

While the European treatment of the natives was hardly enlightened, it was no worse than any other conquering civilization. The 'genocide' was largely due to disease, which the Europeans neither understood nor controlled. By your standard, the Black Death would be a 'genocide' by the muslims against europe.

Yes... tell that to the conquestadors that were turning native americans into slaves and slaughtering them on a genocidial scale when they rebelled.

Genocide? Must be the only case in the history of the world where the survivors of "genocide" operate gambling casinos.

Posted: 8/30/2005 7:50:58 AM EDT

[#41]

I just wanted to make a tangential comment, which is that both of the books mentioned in this thread - Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville, and the Conquest of Gaul, by Julius Caesar, are both awesome books, and well worth reading.

Posted: 8/30/2005 8:43:41 AM EDT

[#42]

How dare you point out the trust about the islamic "faith."

That is glorifies killing in its name.

That is does not tolerate dissention.

That it advocates lying to the "infidel" in order to further its violent cause.

That is subjugates women to the class of animals.

This isn't about "my religion (Christianity) is better than yours," but about the REALITY that it is muslims who are over 1 billion strong in the world, and who adhere to the tenet of "conquer and convert", by any means, including murder of innocents.

It's the same old shit that has been going on for CENTURIES. But somehow it is new.

Idiots.

Posted: 8/30/2005 9:46:47 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I think the difference being illustrated here is that Christians who have done bad things throughout history didn't do them because their religion told them too, but because they were just bad people. Of course their have been bad Christians, as there has been good muslims. I am no expert on the Koran, but it seems to me that maltreatment of women and violent extremism is FAR more rapant in Islamic cultures than in Christian ones. Of course, we had the crusades, but intilligent Christians put a stop to that crap LONG ago. Why is it that the islamic societies can't pull themselves out of the freakin dark ages?

Any culture that uses "village rape" as a punishment for women, punishes women when they are raped and murders them if they kill their rapist in self-defense is seriously FUBAR.

Vigilance... you need to brush up on your history a bit.

The Crusades were NOT acts of unprovoked agression by Europe aganist the Islamic world, but a delayed response to centuries of Muslim aggression. They were wars for the RECAPTURE of Christian lands & the defense of Christians, NOT religious imperialism, as many today have been falsely taught!

Posted: 8/30/2005 10:21:22 AM EDT

[#44]

Yes, the Crusades were GOOD ideas but poorly managed. Which is why Vlad the Impaler took out vengenace on both invaders. But initially, it was to repel the Islamic hordes.

Posted: 8/30/2005 12:48:49 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
is it just me or have we got a load of brainless asshats these days or what?

geeze it happened hundreds of years ago, its done, no one can undo it. And in light of recent events what that guy (cant spell the name) said is very true indeed.

.......Great post...........................unfortunately "they" are living in the 4th century...............and the "liberals" are living with their head sin their asses..........I am sure a lib is less dead with his head removed then a Republican.because they care more

.....Col Cooper has spoken about the Muslims in his writings. www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/.I cant remember what volume!

Posted: 8/30/2005 2:22:52 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
is it just me or have we got a load of brainless asshats these days or what?

geeze it happened hundreds of years ago, its done, no one can undo it. And in light of recent events what that guy (cant spell the name) said is very true indeed.

WolfAR15... you're a "Bookaholic" yet you are unfimilar with "that guy (cant spell the name)"???

I mainly read historical fiction, science fiction, and some historical non fiction. No I am not familiar with ole whats his name.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What Alexis de Tocqueville had to say about Islam...

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us