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Posted: 3/23/2009 12:51:42 AM EST
Well, obama has certainly caused a change in the country........

When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?


I assume they are arming themselves for defensive purposes

but, who are they thinking they will have the need to use weapons against.......
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 12:54:00 AM EST
I feel a lot better having weapons then not.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:02:12 AM EST
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.

Probably some of each.

Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:08:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By hammerkill:
I feel a lot better having weapons then not.


Most of us HERE already had weapons, what I'm talking about is the HUGE increase in NEW gun owners

Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:12:47 AM EST
Using the tax system as a punishment tool. Setting pay limits. Taxing selected items to alter lifestyle choices. Komrad Obama is changing the country alright.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:40:54 AM EST
I am amazed at the number of new gun owners in the stores. These are mainstreet folks that would have never purchased a gun a few years ago.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:42:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By 22bad:
When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?



I'm going to say it was somewhere around 1776...
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:45:42 AM EST
The way people are acting, I figured the number of people owning guns just doubled in the last 4 months... Even if 1% of the new people join the NRA, things are looking up.

Stocks are at an 85% discount from their average (time for new money to walk in and buy up), people are concerned about supplies and preparation, Democrats are AFRAID of an AWB, and people are questioning more what's around them (specifically the government and the commanding heights of the economy).

Hell, if I knew he was going to shake America up this much, I might have voted for him!
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:49:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 2:15:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
The way people are acting, I figured the number of people owning guns just doubled in the last 4 months...

The previous figure on gun ownership was around 40 % of the population. I doubt that it went to 80 % in 4 months.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 2:37:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
The way people are acting, I figured the number of people owning guns just doubled in the last 4 months...

The previous figure on gun ownership was around 40 % of the population. I doubt that it went to 80 % in 4 months.


I know over a dozen people who recently bought a gun that never previously owned one. A few that I've talked to said the same thing.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 2:44:01 AM EST
There were a number of people on this site who said that what this country needed was someone like Obama to get elected for the country to turn around. So far, it seems that this is holding true. If Obama screws the country up half as bad as what we predict, hopefully it will mean a new Republican party in the majority of the House, Senate, and Presidency.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 2:45:41 AM EST
I'm glad this came up here on GD. It's such a new and groundbreaking topic for us.



Link Posted: 3/23/2009 3:35:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lorax:
I'm glad this came up here on GD. It's such a new and groundbreaking topic for us.





Link Posted: 3/23/2009 3:59:22 AM EST
Obama is a fool ..
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 4:01:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mech2007:
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.



Yes
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 4:05:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:
Originally Posted By 22bad:
When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?



I'm going to say it was somewhere around 1776...


this
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 4:11:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/23/2009 4:13:43 AM EST by AR4U]
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.

Probably some of each.



I don't think many first-time gun buyers are rushing out to get a gun before they're banned

EDIT: Never mind, people who know more about it than I do disagree
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 4:15:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 4:17:06 AM EST
I have always had guns but got my first black rifle before the election for fear of not being able to get one in the future....partialy SHTF buy also. But, it has gotten my wife more interested in the sport now and we go shooting about twice a month now. I own a pizza place, and am verrrry vocal about the kenyan and the assault on the 2nd amend. that is comming. I am hearing more and more each day how fed up people are getting, i get all types of them through my store all day... from wealthy socer moms all the way down to the minimum wage workers.
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 4:49:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/23/2009 4:54:22 AM EST by 444]
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.

Probably some of each.



The thing I wonder about is how this is viewed by "the government" ?

Think about it, if another country started suddenly ramping up their supply of weapons/ammo at an almost unprecedented pace, what would our government think was going on ? Especially if it seemed to be in direct response to an action/or situation in this country ? An example might be, "we" elect a new president. Immediately North Korea starts doubling their military spending (again, just an example).

Do "they" view this as just a bunch of guys preparing for a ban, or something entirely different ?
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 5:30:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By N1Rampage:

I know over a dozen people who recently bought a gun that never previously owned one. A few that I've talked to said the same thing.


Hardly a case for a doubling of gun ownership. Not that I would object, as long as they are law abiding citizens. Every citizen who isn't a criminal should own guns, and the increased ownership numbers can only help the gun owners cause.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 11:07:01 PM EST
Has the buying frenzy subsided yet?
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 11:20:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By HarleyDavidson2007:
Obama is a fool ..

No, the fools are the ones that voted him into office.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 11:39:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By 22bad:
Well, obama has certainly caused a change in the country........

When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?


I assume they are arming themselves for defensive purposes

but, who are they thinking they will have the need to use weapons against.......


Why would you assume that? Some of us do just like to shoot.

I don't mean to get on your case but the way you worded that seems questionable to me.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 12:02:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:
Originally Posted By 22bad:
When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?



I'm going to say it was somewhere around 1776...


Uh YEAH, or uhm, 1859.

Just remember dixie people not all NYers are traitors. Just 80%, mostly from the city. so ask before you shoot.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 12:41:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2009 12:42:22 AM EST by Dave_A]
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:
Originally Posted By 22bad:
When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?



I'm going to say it was somewhere around 1776...


Uh YEAH, or uhm, 1859.

Just remember dixie people not all NYers are traitors. Just 80%, mostly from the city. so ask before you shoot.


In 1859, most of the weapons fielded were stolen from United States arsenals by the rebels... Or purchased from foreign nations who supported the CSA as a way of blocking the ascendancy of the USA as a potential threat to European dominance...

It was NOT a 'people's revolt' or anything near so noble...

It was the last grasps of the closest thing we've ever had to a landed aristocracy, fighting for the 'right' to oppress the populations of their states..

That they got some of the common people to 'volunteer' for a cause that was to their detriment is beside the point....

Obviously, it wasn't enough, as they were the first to turn to absolute conscription to fill their ranks (the Union actually used a draft, there is a significant difference)....
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 1:16:15 AM EST
It does not matter how many people are buying guns & ammo. If there is a ban then many will turn them in, those that don't will eventually run out of ammunition.

What matters is how many will join the NRA and get politically active.

Link Posted: 3/29/2009 1:37:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2009 1:38:13 AM EST by Boom_Stick]
My local gun shop has been crowded every day of the week since this all began. Every time I go now I overhear new gun buyers asking questions and making new purchases. It's a different looking crowd some in business suits, soccer-mom and nascar dads, the average joe etc... Definitely not the normal gun shopping repeat business type of people.


Whatever the cause I approve of the affect
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 1:47:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By HarleyDavidson2007:
Obama is a fool ..



No, he is evil, but not a fool. Don't make the mistake of underestimating your enemies.

And it is not just Obama screwing us over. It is the whole Democratic Party and half the Republicans.

Link Posted: 3/29/2009 1:50:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

In 1859, most of the weapons fielded were stolen from United States arsenals by the rebels... Or purchased from foreign nations who supported the CSA as a way of blocking the ascendancy of the USA as a potential threat to European dominance...

It was NOT a 'people's revolt' or anything near so noble...

It was the last grasps of the closest thing we've ever had to a landed aristocracy, fighting for the 'right' to oppress the populations of their states..

That they got some of the common people to 'volunteer' for a cause that was to their detriment is beside the point....

Obviously, it wasn't enough, as they were the first to turn to absolute conscription to fill their ranks (the Union actually used a draft, there is a significant difference)....


Oh, give me a break! Where did you ever read that horseshit?

Link Posted: 3/29/2009 2:10:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2009 3:12:42 AM EST by Dr_Dickie]
Originally Posted By Pangea:
Using the tax system as a punishment tool. Setting pay limits. Taxing selected items to alter lifestyle choices. Komrad Obama is changing the country alright.


Yep, and those thing plus the others he is working on are not the type of things that can be un-done once done.
The Liberals have done a magnificent job of creating a majority of dependent people in this country. This coupled with a complete and total ignorance of the principles and founding documents of the country (as well as the selling of "democracy" as something to be desired instead of despised) through the government schools is creating a large disenfranchised population in this country. The disenfranchised are the producers, the doers, the folks that makes the country work (the parallels to "Atlas Shrugged," is getting to the point of frightening).
Voting means nothing, when there is no discernible difference between the parties. The Soviet Union had massive participation in their elections, so that shows you the value of democracy.
If the Constitution is not followed as the legal foundation of the country and instead "popular" opinion decides what is legal, then the rights of the individual is lost to the desires of the masses––something which the founding documents were drawn and created specifically to prevent. Those that support the system are the ones who derive the least individual concrete benefits from it (their benefits are the benefits that ALL Americans receive); and those that derive the maximum individual benefits, pay nothing. The producers cannot realistically expect those that derive so many benefits for so little or no cost, to vote for a reduction of benefits and increase in cost. That was why the Constitution prevent the Federal government from attaining the power to grant such benefits, as they knew it would be abused (simple human nature). If the States wanted to do so they could; and the produces could just leave that State and move somewhere more free.
It is those, the disenfranchised, the disregarded producers, the makers, the achievers in America that are buying up arms and ammunition. When you invest everything you have in the losers of society, you get more losers. You always get what you promote and reward. The achievers know this, and they are scared. They see the losers being empowered and emboldened, they see achievement being degraded and deionized. They see Zimbabwe being created here. They see the rise in hate speech from the White House, the agitation of the masses against those that earn and create and produce, and they are scared. I don't blame them.
The government has removed, or is in the process of removing any possible means of peaceful redress by the disenfranchisement of the producers, and that is the scariest of all. I think they know that is what they are doing,––as evidenced by recent stories of enhanced concern about "militias."
The liberals have always pushed things to the brink, and then waited until that was accepted as the standard, and pushed farther from there. The standard is about to go from just on this side of the achievers to just on that side of the takers, and when it does, there is no peaceful way to un-do it. Americans will either have to accept it and roll over, or not. The current folks in Washington are betting that they will just roll over and accept it, and perhaps they are right. Perhaps a majority of Americans will just accept the new massive influx of Federal government into their lives. After all, the government is only trying to make their lives safer, easier, more orderly; most Americans WANT that.
But there are some who know what it cost, and they do not want to have to pay for the stupidity and lack of insight and laziness of the majority. How many of them will grin and bare it? Well, I guess that is what the next 5 years or so are going to show us.
Americans are arming against the change, a change they do not understand yet, but can feel that it is coming. I hope that it is just caution against the unknown, but so far it doesn't look that way. They are preparing, without having anything more than a gut feeling that now is the time to prepare.
Meh, nobody seems to listen or care anymore, and it is easier to accept than to rally against dragons that the town folks are making human sacrifices to placate.
Sorry, just had to let it out.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 2:48:17 AM EST
Just curious, has anyone heard about US HB 45 (Blair Holt Licensing and Recored Act of 2009)? Frightening stuff. Another run at limiting or pre-banning all firearms? Would like input.
LM
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 3:03:00 AM EST
Dr.

Can you please add a few "paragraphs? It's tough to read, and this stuff is important.

Thanks
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 3:07:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.

Probably some of each.




i have talked to a LOT of new owners recently. they could care less about a ban or the resulting investment potential. these people are scared. they don't know whats coming but they don't see anything good on the horizon. mix those fears in with what people saw reported from things like katrina and other disasters and people are freaking out.




Exactly.

Folks are getting the feeling there may be a fight soon for one reason or another or increased violence as the economy tanks. I get one or two folks a week at work who ask me about what guns to buy, and they all say the same thing, that things are going bad and they want one to protect the family. Gun bans have not been mentioned once.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 3:07:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By worker:
Just curious, has anyone heard about US HB 45 (Blair Holt Licensing and Recored Act of 2009)? Frightening stuff. Another run at limiting or pre-banning all firearms? Would like input.
LM


Its been discussed ad nauseam here. I don't think you can search but I saw pages of threads going back 3 months.

While it may not get out of committee its just another anti-gun angle that they would like to take. Don't ban anything, just license everyone, register certain firearms, and prevent those firearms from being used in a "normal" fashion all in the name of "crime prevention."

Its the normal stuff that anti gunners come up with to affect us whereas the criminal would simply ignore it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 3:10:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By CletusRoundbelly:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.

Probably some of each.




i have talked to a LOT of new owners recently. they could care less about a ban or the resulting investment potential. these people are scared. they don't know whats coming but they don't see anything good on the horizon. mix those fears in with what people saw reported from things like katrina and other disasters and people are freaking out.



Exactly.

Folks are getting the feeling there may be a fight soon for one reason or another or increased violence as the economy tanks. I get one or two folks a week at work who ask me about what guns to buy, and they all say the same thing, that things are going bad and they want one to protect the family. Gun bans have not been mentioned once.


I convinced a younger coworker (22) to buy a good pistol and a good rifle not because of impending doom but because he was interested in it. Glock 22 and Colt 6920 later he's very excited but again not a pro-EBR guy. He just doesn't want to be without if he needs them. When I ask him why he thinks he will need them he is not sure; he just says things don't seem right to him.

I agree, people are nervous given the current economic and political environment and having some firepower makes them feel a bit better about this uncertainty.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 3:49:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2009 3:52:38 AM EST by CletusRoundbelly]
he just says things don't seem right to him.


This was the way I was going to phrase it, but was trying to be a little more clear. This is the essence of what I'm hearing, things just don't seem right to many folks.

I've been steering folks towards both a pistol and a long gun as well, then explaining to them why they should have a dependable long arm as well as a sidearm. Most never thought of it, they just went "handgun" without considering the potential of longer range fire.



Link Posted: 3/29/2009 4:17:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

In 1859, most of the weapons fielded were stolen from United States arsenals by the rebels... Or purchased from foreign nations who supported the CSA as a way of blocking the ascendancy of the USA as a potential threat to European dominance...

It was NOT a 'people's revolt' or anything near so noble...

It was the last grasps of the closest thing we've ever had to a landed aristocracy, fighting for the 'right' to oppress the populations of their states..

That they got some of the common people to 'volunteer' for a cause that was to their detriment is beside the point....

Obviously, it wasn't enough, as they were the first to turn to absolute conscription to fill their ranks (the Union actually used a draft, there is a significant difference)....


Oh, give me a break! Where did you ever read that horseshit?



Sounds like Berkley

Link Posted: 3/29/2009 4:18:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
I keep trying to decide if the increase in weapon sales is because people are afraid the S is gonna HTF or because they're afraid of a ban.

Probably some of each.




i have talked to a LOT of new owners recently. they could care less about a ban or the resulting investment potential. these people are scared. they don't know whats coming but they don't see anything good on the horizon. mix those fears in with what people saw reported from things like katrina and other disasters and people are freaking out.


This is what I am seeing as well. A few I have spoken with are trying to beat "the ban" while far more I've spoken to are just plain scared.
Want to guess which I find to be a more accurate indicator of the well being of our country?

Link Posted: 3/29/2009 4:48:19 AM EST
The crime rate is also spiking.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 4:53:40 AM EST
This is typical of everything liberals do. All their policies result in just the opposite effect that they desire. Welfare results in a decrease in living standards. Strict environmental controls cause companies to relocate to China where there is no control, reasulting in a net incresas in the worlds pollution, access to abortion and birth control for teens results in more teen fatherless kids, electing a gun hater results in - guess what - more guns and ammunition being bought sold, and traded. But it makes them feel better for trying.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 4:57:03 AM EST
Most likely a one-term fool as well

Originally Posted By HarleyDavidson2007:
Obama is a fool ..


Link Posted: 3/29/2009 5:12:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Most likely a one-term fool as well

Originally Posted By HarleyDavidson2007:
Obama is a fool ..



barry o. does not care if he's a one-term president slo long as he can get his agenda passed in the first four years. Not guessing here - barry has said this.

5sub
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 5:22:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2009 5:23:07 AM EST by fammyman]
i know why i stockpiled but when i was at scheels yesterday every 10 seconds the gun department was getting called. it was like boxy for the gun department "guns youn you have a calll on line......""guns youn you have a calll on line......""guns youn you have a calll on line......""guns youn you have a calll on line......""guns youn you have a calll on line......""guns youn you have a calll on line......"
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 5:26:12 AM EST
It's a "Gut" thing.

I haven't touched an AR since leaving the infantry in 1995. I live in the country and have multiple shot guns.

I have looked back many times at different situations where my gut told me something was not right and I did not act upon it.

It is a matter of "preparing for the worst and "hoping" for the best.

Don't allow the latter to cloud your judgement.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 5:35:39 AM EST
Two words from a Cub and Boy Scout Leader: be prepared.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 5:55:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:
Originally Posted By 22bad:
When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?



I'm going to say it was somewhere around 1776...


Uh YEAH, or uhm, 1859.

Just remember dixie people not all NYers are traitors. Just 80%, mostly from the city. so ask before you shoot.


In 1859, most of the weapons fielded were stolen from United States arsenals by the rebels... Or purchased from foreign nations who supported the CSA as a way of blocking the ascendancy of the USA as a potential threat to European dominance...

It was NOT a 'people's revolt' or anything near so noble...

It was the last grasps of the closest thing we've ever had to a landed aristocracy, fighting for the 'right' to oppress the populations of their states..

That they got some of the common people to 'volunteer' for a cause that was to their detriment is beside the point....

Obviously, it wasn't enough, as they were the first to turn to absolute conscription to fill their ranks (the Union actually used a draft, there is a significant difference)....


Typical northern POV.



Link Posted: 3/29/2009 6:21:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2009 6:22:50 AM EST by JLREED]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Fender57:
Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:
Originally Posted By 22bad:
When was the last time Americans went out in droves to purchase guns and ammunition on this scale?



I'm going to say it was somewhere around 1776...


Uh YEAH, or uhm, 1859.

Just remember dixie people not all NYers are traitors. Just 80%, mostly from the city. so ask before you shoot.


In 1859, most of the weapons fielded were stolen from United States arsenals by the rebels... Or purchased from foreign nations who supported the CSA as a way of blocking the ascendancy of the USA as a potential threat to European dominance...

It was NOT a 'people's revolt' or anything near so noble...

It was the last grasps of the closest thing we've ever had to a landed aristocracy, fighting for the 'right' to oppress the populations of their states..

That they got some of the common people to 'volunteer' for a cause that was to their detriment is beside the point....

Obviously, it wasn't enough, as they were the first to turn to absolute conscription to fill their ranks (the Union actually used a draft, there is a significant difference)....


Horsehocky regarding the Federal Arsenals. The only significant one siezed was Harpers Ferry, and the contents of it were a drop in the bucket. The machinery taken to Richmond produced scant few weapons during the course of the war.

Most states with any money had built up SIGNIFICANT state arsenals (Massachusetts bought 50,000 stands of enfield rifled muskets, just before the war) , and some had manufacturing capabilites (see the Palmetto armoury M 1842 'Pumpkin Rollers"). IN point of fact, President Buchanan had shipped huge quantites of US arms TO *state* arsenals, literally gave them over to Southern States, before secession.

It is inarguable that secession was driven by the landed class of the South, who's wealth was derived by cotton production based on slavery, who saw a refusal by LIncoln during the campaign to allow the expansion of slavery into new territories, as being the cause of Secession of the first States to seceed. The rest, like Virginia and North Carolina, etc, seceeded when called on to provide troops to 'surpress the insurrection', begun by the firing on Ft. Sumpter.

What the states entering secession were busy grabbing, were the mints, and the costal fortifications - the one to provide a means of currency to function as a state, the other seen as a direct and immediate threat to the large ports of the South, and seen by said States inhabitents as being paid for with their tax mony, thus "theirs".

Link Posted: 3/29/2009 7:28:04 AM EST
Speaking as someone who was/is caught up in the panic buying, maybe I can shed a little light onto the mindset of at least one newbie.

I was raised around guns, grew up in a small town in Texas, and bought my first handgun (a total POS) when I turned 21.
AR's and AK's where always something that I would drool at shows, stores, and the range.

I would always say "I can't afford it now" or "i'll buy one next month" while I lived in Texas.
Then I moved to Hawaii, got a nice paying job, and even though I could afford them, it was a major PITA to buy any firearm in Hawaii, hell there was not even a public range on the island I was on.
So of course buying any firearms where put on the back burner because "there was never enough time to take the classes to get the Hawaii Permit to Acquire"

Fast forward a few years later, gas prices rise, tourism in Hawaii plummets, one thing leads to another, and I find myself in Florida.

Talks of bans are starting to pop up on the radio talk shows, and on late night CNN/MSNBC etc.
Gun laws are much more reasonable, so on and so forth..

So like my farther always told me "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" in spite of the wait times on orders, some price increase I decide to take the plunge and buy some firearms that I had been meaning to for years.

At least if there is a ban on sale, or a huge new tax on transfers, I will not have regrets about "if only I would have"
If the worst never comes, and prices drop back down thankfully I'd only be out about $100 or so extra from overpaying.

Not sure if many people are in the same boat as me, but I'm not thinking of them as investments, or entirely for home defense, but more as a "meant to take the plunge years ago" kinda thing.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 7:58:54 AM EST
I am aware of his statements regarding this..............but I am sure his handlers want him to have another term to implement more of his ideas......I dont think for one moment he doesnt have plans for another go-round

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Most likely a one-term fool as well

Originally Posted By HarleyDavidson2007:
Obama is a fool ..



barry o. does not care if he's a one-term president slo long as he can get his agenda passed in the first four years. Not guessing here - barry has said this.




5sub


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