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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/18/2003 7:47:57 PM EDT
On CBS tonigh and finishes up on Tuesday. Thought it was alright but know that they aren't accurate. But it seems to be very intertaining
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:21:49 PM EDT
I was hoping for something accurate and groundbreaking. Instead just the same old "evilest man who ever lived" combined with typical Hollywood propoganda. First they have him as a brooding child. As if Hitler was born pissed off. What a joke, his life wasn't perfect and his Dad an asshole but get real. Second, they have his parents teaching him anti semetism. This is especially hilarious given that his Grandfather was jewish (which ironically is enough for Hitler to have been legally a jew by nazi standards). Also it is pretty well documented that he was introduced to anti semetic ideas later in life while living on his own in Vienna. Third, and probably the worst, is the movie is subtly championing the Socialists/Communist since Hitler hated them. The message being "Hitler is pure evil and everything he stood for was evil....therefore everything he stood against must be good." Sadly this movie is simply a combination of every other less than accurate portrayal of Hitler and his rise to power only with more propoganda tossed in. Of course I don't know why I had higher expectations for a CBS production. It is too bad a real production house like HBO Pictures didn't take on this project. The movie "Stalin" and the series "Band Of Brothers" were nothing less than amazing. Their attention to historical detail and accuracy would have resulted in a much better final product.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:30:10 PM EDT
What I thought was funny and I don't know about where you live but almost at every commercial break there was a commerical on racism. Of course I live in the ATL so thats going to be here.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:35:16 PM EDT
Steyr, lets not go destroying stereo-types shall we??? Everyone knows the Communists heroically stood against "The Great Satan"....
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:37:39 PM EDT
You gotta admit that the guy they have playin him looks like a creepy little worm of a man.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:38:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Steyr, lets not go destroying stereo-types shall we??? Everyone knows the Communists heroically stood against "The Great Satan"....
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Was that before or after the non aggression pact? [:D]
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:39:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By byron2112: You gotta admit that the guy they have playin him looks like a creepy little worm of a man.
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Yup, I swear that Jim Carrey can do anybody. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:46:31 PM EDT
Presenting Jim Carry ........as.........Hitler!![ROFL2] You gotta love it.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 9:24:08 PM EDT
I skipped it expecting the same ol same ol as it is network stuff. Besides, part 2 is on tuesday night at 9, the same time the final hour of 24 is on. I didnt watch that damm show all season to miss the last one. CH
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 10:36:56 PM EDT
You really don't think they could make an accurate movie about Hitler in our enlightened age. THAT would qualify as a horror movie, how easy it was to happen and how rational each step was, and for what good reasons. First off, Hitler was not crazy until the very end (perhaps). It is odd - Hitler was no more antisemetic before ww1, according to his fellow soldiers, than anyone else was. The large majority of Bolshevik leaders were Jewish, and fighting Bolshivist revolutionaries meant fighting Jews. Not much of a leap in logic, and noone in old Europe needed much of a reason to hate Jews in the first place. I hate that - the modern tendancy to paint communists as more progressive Liberals. Especially in the 1919 - 1930's timeframe.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 10:45:53 PM EDT
Haven't seen the thing, just a full-page ad for it on the frontpage of the TV insert in the local fishwrapper, and all I can say is this is the goofiest looking Hitler I've ever seen. Even John Cleese looked better in that role.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 11:02:29 PM EDT
Damn I missed it,how does it turn out? Hitler win this time? Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 6:38:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Sadly this movie is simply a combination of every other less than accurate portrayal of Hitler and his rise to power only with more propoganda tossed in. Of course I don't know why I had higher expectations for a CBS production. It is too bad a real production house like HBO Pictures didn't take on this project. The movie "Stalin" and the series "Band Of Brothers" were nothing less than amazing. Their attention to historical detail and accuracy would have resulted in a much better final product.
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In the movie production biz, this is called "creative license."
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 6:54:57 AM EDT
I didn't watch it. Frankly, I'm sick of movies and "documentaries" about Hitler and the Nazis. There was a time when that's about all the History Channel ran. It was so bad, I began calling it the Hitler Channel. We could use a little more coverage of the good guys. Fuck Hitler and Stalin.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 6:57:22 AM EDT
[url]http://www.jewishsf.com/bk990917/etviacom.shtml[/url]
CBS-Viacom merger redefines Jewish role in media J.J. GOLDBERG Bulletin Correspondent There was a telling moment, midway through last week's press conference announcing the CBS-Viacom megamerger, when one of the unmentionables of American entertainment peeked through the veils for an instant. It came when a reporter asked CBS president Mel Karmazin why he wanted this merger. His reply: "This is the deal I've wanted to make, I think, from the time I was bar-mitzvahed." The reporters laughed nervously. Nobody commented afterward. Nobody would have brought it up if Karmazin hadn't. It's one of those inside jokes you don't usually tell in public. Americans consider it downright rude to talk publicly about Jewish ownership in the media. Marlon Brando mentioned it two years ago on "Larry King Live" and nearly got lynched. Three years earlier, journalist William Cash caused an international uproar with a scathing 1994 article about Jewish influence in Hollywood in the Spectator, a British newsweekly. It's just not something you discuss in conventional society. But Karmazin isn't conventional. The son of a New York cabdriver, he was a fast-talking ad salesman who built his own radio network, Infinity Broadcasting, best known as the home of shock-jocks Howard Stern and Don Imus. CBS bought Infinity 1996. Two years later Karmazin took over CBS. Karmazin is a throwback to an older era of seat-of-the-pants, shoot-from-the-hip Jewish media entrepreneurs. "He's always refreshingly straightforward about who he is," says a friend. "He's doesn't make a big deal of his Jewishness, but he's right out there with it." How Jewish is that? It's hard to find out. Sought for an interview last Friday after the merger, Karmazin had left early for Rosh Hashanah. Karmazin's new boss, Viacom Chairman Sumner Redstone, is cut from similar cloth. Son of a nightclub owner -- his father changed the family name from Rothstein -- he built a chain of movie theaters and in 1987 took over Viacom, an also-ran cable-and-syndication company. He has turned it into one of the biggest forces in Hollywood, acquiring Paramount Pictures, MTV and much more. But he never joined the Tinseltown set. He won't even move out of his hometown, Boston, where he's a major donor to the local Jewish federation. The CBS-Viacom marriage is the biggest media merger in history. It combines two Hollywood giants to form America's second biggest media company. It's also an historic milestone in the long, complicated relationship between Hollywood and the Jews. They're coming back to Hollywood's boardrooms, after a lengthy exile. Jewish media ownership is a sturdy myth, but only partly true. Yes, Jews "invented Hollywood." A generation of immigrant Jewish entrepreneurs -- Sam Goldwyn, Jack and Harry Warner, Louis B. Mayer and others -- built a multibillion-dollar dream factory. A later generation of Jewish entrepreneurs created the broadcast networks: William Paley's CBS, David Sarnoff's NBC and Leonard Goldenson's ABC. But those Jews died years ago. The Hollywood lampooned by Cash in 1994 was no longer owned by Jews.The only exceptions were Warner Bros., bought in 1969 by Jewish parking-lot mogul Steve Ross. In 1990 Ross merged his Warner Communications with Time Inc. to create Time Warner, the world's biggest media company. Ross died two years later and was succeeded as chairman by a little-known Time Inc. executive, Gerald Levin, who had once considered a rabbinic career. Levin represents a new breed of media mogul. Technically he's not a mogul at all, since he doesn't own the company he manages. But he's so powerful and so well paid that the management-ownership distinction fades. Levin isn't the first of the breed. First was Michael Eisner, chairman of Walt Disney Co. Eisner was hired by Disney -- the only Hollywood studio actually founded by a non-Jew -- in 1985, when Walt's children lost the company in a hostile takeover. The new owner, Walt's nephew Roy, had been forced out of the family business after Walt's death in 1966. He returned with a largely Jewish management team, a rich irony at a company long regarded as anti-Semitic. Now, after all the deals and buyouts, four of the five mega-media companies are run by Jews. We're back where we started, bigger than ever. Does it matter? It does if you're an anti-Semitic conspiracy nut. You'd be wrong. But there was a Jewishness in the dreams spun by the old Jewish media moguls. The new Jewish moguls dream similar dreams. It's no accident that Rupert Murdoch, the only non-Jew in the group, is also the only political conservative. He's also the only one who risks company money to promote his beliefs. The others spend most of their time making deals. Too bad Murdoch didn't have a bar mitzvah. The writer is a N.Y.-based columnist and author of "Jewish Power: Inside the American Jewish Establishment."
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:08:48 AM EDT
Anti-semetic. This one will head south. IBTL!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:25:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:33:09 AM EDT
I don't watch the "alphabet" networks,there are too many programs on the "other" channels to hold my interest. (if I decide to watch television) AB
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:34:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2003 7:36:10 AM EDT by Feedingcannibal]
Originally Posted By liberty86: Anti-semetic. This one will head south. IBTL!!!!!
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I am assuming this refers to my post, which was taken from the Jewish Bulletin Online ([url]http://www.jewishsf.com/[/url]). Please contact them, or the Jewish author J. J. Goldberg, directly in regards to their anti-semetism. Thank you.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:15:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: I didn't watch it. Frankly, I'm sick of movies and "documentaries" about Hitler and the Nazis. There was a time when that's about all the History Channel ran. It was so bad, I began calling it the Hitler Channel. We could use a little more coverage of the good guys. Fuck Hitler and Stalin.
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I know what you are saying but consider this. MacArthur, Patton and Eisenhower were not demonized by propoganda. So one documentary for each was usually enough and the first one was usually about 99% accurate. Also, while they were extraordinary men they didn't do things (like kill 20 million of their own people) that just boggle the mind. People constantly focus on Hitler and Stalin because there is a real need to present a accurate portrayal of them to counter all the misinformation associated with them. Also people focus on them because they are unique in the attrocities they committed. It is just so hard to believe a person could actually do those things.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:29:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: This is especially hilarious given that his Grandfather was jewish (which ironically is enough for Hitler to have been legally a jew by nazi standards).
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Do [u]you[/u] know this as a fact? Or is it simply more anti-Jewish BS? I mean, it's the most extreme bit of [i][b]irony[/b][/i] that such a statement, if true, would produce, but it also is a silent indictment of Jews, that [u]they[/u] could somehow have produced the monster that became Hitler! I find no credence at all in the Shickelgruber story. And Shickelgruber certainly never conducted himself as if he were Hitler's Grandfather, [i][b]nicht wahr?[/b][/i] So, whatever impact or influence he had on Hitler, even admitting the consanguinity, was surely minimal. I just hate seeing the Shickelgrubers get such bad press! Eric The(Disbelieving)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 11:57:59 AM EDT
As if hitler wasn't goofy loking all on his own.....LOL!
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 12:20:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 1:55:25 PM EDT
you mean hillary didnt get the part to play hitler?
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 2:21:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 3:35:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2003 3:40:30 PM EDT by pogo]
The nazis pulled it off because Jews=Bolsheviks during this time. Most Bolshevik leaders were Jewish, and it would be splitting hairs to say "Good Jew, Bad Bolshevik" like we did in this country did with "Good German, Bad Nazi." Germany and most of East Europe were very close to outright civil war against the Reds after WW1. The Reds operated in true Red form, executing enemies whenever they took over a town. Hitler, good decorated soldier he was in 1918-1919, was sorting gas masks on an army base during a virtual civil war stewing in a fury. Read up on your history about the era. Man, and people think Islam is a terror now. Nothing compared to the Red Terror. As far as Hitler having Jewish ancestry, it is a possibility. His Grandmother/Greatgrandmother (?) was an unmarried maid in a Jewish household when she got pregnant. No father named, but he was possibly a member of the household.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 3:55:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: This is especially hilarious given that his Grandfather was jewish (which ironically is enough for Hitler to have been legally a jew by nazi standards).
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Do [u]you[/u] know this as a fact? Or is it simply more anti-Jewish BS? I mean, it's the most extreme bit of [i][b]irony[/b][/i] that such a statement, if true, would produce, but it also is a silent indictment of Jews, that [u]they[/u] could somehow have produced the monster that became Hitler! I find no credence at all in the Shickelgruber story. And Shickelgruber certainly never conducted himself as if he were Hitler's Grandfather, [i][b]nicht wahr?[/b][/i] So, whatever impact or influence he had on Hitler, even admitting the consanguinity, was surely minimal. I just hate seeing the Shickelgrubers get such bad press! Eric The(Disbelieving)Hun[>]:)]
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Hitler never met his grandfather so of course his grandfather could have had no influence upon him whatsoever. Nobody can prove for a fact that Hitlers grandfather (fathers side) was jewish because one of the first acts Hitler did in Austria was designate his grandfathers town a artillery target range and the building that housed the records was destroyed. The general consensus of opinion is Hitlers grandfather (fathers side) was jewish and Hitler knew it and that motivated him to destroy the only records of such. Onto the implication that Hitler was a jew. He would have been only 1/8th jewish and hardly a racial jew. Since he never practiced the jewish faith he was never a religious jew. But according to nazi ideology 1/8 a jew does one make.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 4:23:33 PM EDT
Post from SteyrAUG -
Nobody can prove for a fact that Hitlers grandfather (fathers side) was jewish because one of the first acts Hitler did in Austria was designate his grandfathers town a artillery target range and the building that housed the records was destroyed.
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'Nobody can prove for a fact', I think, says it all. Can anyone imagine the meticulous Germans or Austrians permitting official records which would have included those records supporting others folks' claims for Aryan ancestry to be so purposefully destroyed? Hitler would simply have had the Gestapo visit the archives and remove whatever damning records may have been found there. Had there been any damning records located there, at all.
The general consensus of opinion is Hitlers grandfather (fathers side) was jewish and Hitler knew it and that motivated him to destroy the only records of such.
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I don't think that that is the 'general consensus of opinion' at all! There were rumors hinting that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Few, if any, of the reputable historians believe that this is so. It is much more likely that Hitler tried to keep the murky history of his family quite secret because there was a high incidence of [u]insanity[/u] and [u]feeble-mindedness[/u] among his ancestors. Rumors die hard, though. One of Hitler's henchmen, Hans Frank, declared during the Nuremberg Trials in 1945-46, that Hitler's grandmother had worked in the town of Graz as a servant in the home of a Jewish family named Frankenberger. He further claimed that she was seduced by the head of the household and that Hitler's grandfather was the result of that liaison. A subsequent analysis of Frank's statement by Simon Wiesenthal disclosed that there was no evidence of any Jewish family named Frankenberger ever living in Graz. What is more, Jews had been driven out of Graz in the 15th century and had not been allowed to return until 1856, nearly twenty years [u]after[/u] Hitler's grandfather had been born. Hitler's grandmother's maiden name was Schickelgruber. There is considerable evidence that this family produced abnormal progeny. Examples are: one of Hitler's relatives through his mother's side committed suicide in 1920, another, Aloisha had been placed in an insane asylum, another was "feeble-minded," and yet another was retarded. According to the article from which I am quoting this material: "Hitler's real fear, then, was [u]not[/u] that someone would discover that he has a Jewish grandfather, but that it would someday come to light that he carried a hereditary disposition toward mental illness and retardation." (from "Hitler's Family Secret: A file recovered from the Nazi Archives tells of a Gestapo investigation into the Fuehrer's murky family history" by Ben S. Swearingen, [b]Civilization: The Magazine of the Library of Congress[/b] Volume 2, Number 2, April 1995, pp. 54-55.) The best research on the issue is by Werner Maser in his book [b]Hitler: Legend, Myth & Reality[/b]. After exhaustive research, he concludes very convincingly that Hitler was NOT part Jewish. Check out chapter 1 of the book if you want [u]all[/u] the details. It is quite exhaustive, be forewarned! Eric The(Historical)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 4:28:01 PM EDT
BTW, do you also believe that Thomas Jefferson fathered illegitimate children by his slave, Sally Hemmings? There may be at least some medical evidence, at least, to believe this. But I don't believe it in the least! Eric The('TheGoodIsOftInterredWithTheBones')Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 4:43:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from SteyrAUG -
Nobody can prove for a fact that Hitlers grandfather (fathers side) was jewish because one of the first acts Hitler did in Austria was designate his grandfathers town a artillery target range and the building that housed the records was destroyed.
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'Nobody can prove for a fact', I think, says it all.
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Nobody can prove for a FACT Jesus lived. But most people accept it anyway don't they?
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Can anyone imagine the meticulous Germans or Austrians permitting official records which would have included those records supporting others folks' claims for Aryan ancestry to be so purposefully destroyed?
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Sure can, especially if he was trying to cover up something like this.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Hitler would simply have had the Gestapo visit the archives and remove whatever damning records may have been found there. Had there been any damning records located there, at all.
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Yeah right. That early on the very trusting, in no way paranoid Hitler is gonna trust people in the power competetive Gestapo with information that would destroy him.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The general consensus of opinion is Hitlers grandfather (fathers side) was jewish and Hitler knew it and that motivated him to destroy the only records of such.
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I don't think that that is the 'general consensus of opinion' at all!
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It most certainly is. It is just not a popular piece of history for the very reasons that make you so uncomfortable. And it is much like pictures of Hitler with children and being kind to dogs. It flies in the face of the political correct view that Hitler was pure evil, devoid of any good whatsoever and was a aboration of history. This is why you also rarely see his artwork because it implies a humanitarian aspect. The idea that he weas a ordinary mortal who was also capable of good has become a offensive notion. The idea that he was 1/8th jewish and yet murdered 6 million jews is equally unacceptable to most people.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: There were rumors hinting that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Few, if any, of the reputable historians believe that this is so.
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Again not true. The most recent source I'm aware of was a 2 hour History Channel documentary (considered the most comprehensive and accurate so far) and I'd be more than happy to provide a copy to you.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: It is much more likely that Hitler tried to keep the murky history of his family quite secret because there was a high incidence of [u]insanity[/u] and [u]feeble-mindedness[/u] among his ancestors.
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That would be the PC version. Hitler was crazy and came from crazy people.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Rumors die hard, though.
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Especially the one that says Hitler was a madman devoid of humanity and could not possibly have any Jewish ancestory.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: One of Hitler's henchmen, Hans Frank, declared during the Nuremberg Trials in 1945-46, that Hitler's grandmother had worked in the town of Graz as a servant in the home of a Jewish family named Frankenberger. He further claimed that she was seduced by the head of the household and that Hitler's grandfather was the result of that liaison.
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Hitlers grandmother gave birth to Hitlers grandfather?
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: A subsequent analysis of Frank's statement by Simon Wiesenthal disclosed that there was no evidence of any Jewish family named Frankenberger ever living in Graz. What is more, Jews had been driven out of Graz in the 15th century and had not been allowed to return until 1856, nearly twenty years [u]after[/u] Hitler's grandfather had been born.
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And SW had the same evidence to disprove he was jewish as there was to prove he was 1/8th jewish. None. Also there is a very real political agenda for SW to declare he was not part jewish.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Hitler's grandmother's maiden name was Schickelgruber. There is considerable evidence that this family produced abnormal progeny. Examples are: one of Hitler's relatives through his mother's side committed suicide in 1920, another, Aloisha had been placed in an insane asylum, another was "feeble-minded," and yet another was retarded. According to the article from which I am quoting this material: "Hitler's real fear, then, was [u]not[/u] that someone would discover that he has a Jewish grandfather, but that it would someday come to light that he carried a hereditary disposition toward mental illness and retardation." (from "Hitler's Family Secret: A file recovered from the Nazi Archives tells of a Gestapo investigation into the Fuehrer's murky family history" by Ben S. Swearingen, [b]Civilization: The Magazine of the Library of Congress[/b] Volume 2, Number 2, April 1995, pp. 54-55.) The best research on the issue is by Werner Maser in his book [b]Hitler: Legend, Myth & Reality[/b]. After exhaustive research, he concludes very convincingly that Hitler was NOT part Jewish. Check out chapter 1 of the book if you want [u]all[/u] the details. It is quite exhaustive, be forewarned! Eric The(Historical)Hun[>]:)]
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Our congressional records (Library of Congress) also once held a very different account of the demise and last hours of Hitler. It wasn't until Russians later released the authentic version of events after the fall of communism in the USSR that we discovered our version of events was not accurate.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 4:46:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: BTW, do you also believe that Thomas Jefferson fathered illegitimate children by his slave, Sally Hemmings? There may be at least some medical evidence, at least, to believe this. But I don't believe it in the least! Eric The('TheGoodIsOftInterredWithTheBones')Hun[>]:)]
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I have no stake in the controversy but I'm willing to accept the plausibility. Furthermore, I "think" but I'm not positive taht DNA evidence (comparissons of the DNA of Jefferson and Hemmings decendents) did conclusively prove a link. I would defer to the DNA evidence in that case.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 5:10:59 PM EDT
It would be very difficult to do any drama with Hitler as a central historical character. Everyone already has deeply rooted preconceptions about him. As far as I can tell he was something of a chiper until he was about 30--no deeply held political beliefs that he shared with others. His immediate postwar time in Munich and his prewar time in Vienna, when he was exposed to antisemitism, seem to have been his formative political experiences. He seems to have been intelligent, but undisciplined and untrained from an intellectual standpoint.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 5:27:26 PM EDT
Post from SteyrAUG -
The most recent source I'm aware of was a 2 hour History Channel documentary (considered the most comprehensive and accurate so far) and I'd be more than happy to provide a copy to you.
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No, thanks, but since you brought up the History Channel, let me bring up Cecil Adams' 'The Straight Dope' as authority for my position! [:D] [size=4]Was Hitler Jewish?[/size=4] [i]Dear Cecil: I and a number of my friends were raised Jewish. In different Sunday and Hebrew schools, we all heard myths that Hitler was Jewish, and some said that his heritage, not the impending allied victory, caused him to commit suicide. One stubborn boy insists that Hitler's father was at least half Jewish, and that young Adolf hated his father, causing him to translate his hatred into mass slaughter as an adult. Secular teachers, history books, and encyclopedias make no mention of Hitler having any Jewish blood. I hope you, Cecil the all-knowing, can set the record straight. -- Anonymous, Dallas[/i] Cecil replies: [b]Wish I could oblige, bubeleh. But while Hitler probably didn't have any Jewish blood, it can't be completely ruled out. Hitler's father was illegitimate and to this day there is some question about who his grandfather was. Throughout his career he was dogged by rumors about his pedigree, some of them circulated by his fellow Nazis. In 1933 the London Daily Mirror published a picture of a gravestone in a Jewish cemetery in Bucharest inscribed with some Hebrew characters and the name Adolf Hitler. It's now known the Bucharest Hitler could not have been grandfather to our Adolf, but Hitler was sufficiently worried about the whole business that, according to the historian John Toland, he had the Nazi law defining Jewishness written to exclude Jesus Christ and himself. Here's what we know: Hitler's paternal grandmother, Maria Schicklgruber, gave birth to Alois, Hitler's father, in 1837. She was 42 and unmarried at the time and apparently never revealed the father's identity. Five years later she married Johann Georg Hiedler or Hitler (spelling was a bit casual in those days). But Alois kept the surname Schicklgruber until he was 39 years old. In 1876 a new baptismal certificate was issued declaring that Alois's stepfather J.G. Hiedler was in fact his real father. By this time both Maria and J.G. were dead. Why the name change so late in the day nobody really knows, but there is speculation that Alois did it so he could come into an inheritance. At any rate, few researchers today believe J.G. was really Alois's father. Now for the weird stuff. After the war Hitler's former lawyer, Hans Frank, claimed that Adolf told him in 1930 that one of his relatives was trying to blackmail him by threatening to reveal his alleged Jewish ancestry. Hitler asked Frank to find out the facts. Frank says he determined that at the time Maria Schicklgruber gave birth to Alois, she was working as a household cook in the town of Graz. Her employers were a Jewish family named Frankenberger, who had a 19-year-old son. The son, according to Frank, was Alois's father and Hitler's grandfather--which would make the man who inspired the Holocaust one-quarter Jewish. Frank's allegations have vexed historians ever since. The distinguished Hitler scholar Werner Maser was so irritated he claimed Frank made the whole thing up. Others think Frank was telling the truth but that the research he did for Hitler was faulty. It turns out that all Jews had been expelled from Graz in the 15th century and were not allowed to return until the 1860s; what's more, so far as can be determined, Maria Schicklgruber never lived in Graz. Frank's source for the Frankenberger yarn was a distant relation of Hitler's, who supposedly had letters exchanged by the Frankenbergers and Maria Schicklgruber. (It's claimed they gave her child support.) But neither the relative nor the letters have ever surfaced, and chances are it's all a crock. So who really was Hitler's grandfather? Werner Maser thinks it was the brother of his legal grandfather, one Johann Nepomuk Hiedler. But that's not all. J. Nepomuk was also the grandfather of Klara Poelzl, Hitler's mom. In other words, J.N. was both Adolph's paternal grandfather and his maternal great-grandfather. I'm not about to tell you any of this was the proximate cause of Hitler's persecution of the Jews, his suicide, or anything else. Still, if you believe Maser, not only was Hitler twisted, so was his family tree. --CECIL ADAMS[/b] Now that is authoritative! [:D] [url]http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_325b.html[/url] Eric The(Thanks,Cecil)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:41:04 PM EDT
Saw that, Cecil seems to be basing his information on the same old sources that you are. Again, we learned nearly 40 years later that the sequence of events related to Hitlers death were completely wrong. New information presents itself and replaces old information. Again I'd be more than happy to supply you with a copy of the recent documentary that is thus far the most complete and currently believed as the most accurate.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:17:19 PM EDT
I had it on for the first hour, then the power went out. I spent the rest of the night in darkness, I think that I got the better end of the deal. The first hour didn't really hold my attention. I don't think that I'll be back for seconds.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:43:47 PM EDT
The whole deal was a cheap shot. Hitler as a young boy burns down behive...C'mon, please! Hitler kicks dog...In fact he loved animals and pets, dogs especially. Hitler, the small man...He was 5'9", a little above average there. Try as they might they could not disguise the fact that he was physically brave...good war record in WW1, leading FROM THE FRONT RANK in the beer hall putsch... We will never see a decent drama about this important man, because YOU KNOW WHO runs Hollywood... Yeah, I got a kick out of the "anti-rascist" commercial blitz...after all, little white Johhny might be watching TV without his PC conditioned parents, and needs a dose of guilt before he actually develops a sense of PRIDE...
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 11:43:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98: Haven't seen the thing, just a full-page ad for it on the frontpage of the TV insert in the local fishwrapper, and all I can say is this is the goofiest looking Hitler I've ever seen. Even John Cleese looked better in that role.
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Yeah, he is the goofiest-looking Hitler--small head and skinny, if that's what you're thinking.[ROFL2] That's British actor Robert Carlyle. He appeared in the movie "The Full Monty" back in late 1990's.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:30:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 5:33:05 AM EDT by Feedingcannibal]
[url]http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/exploitation/film_as_child5.html[/url]
Historian Kershaw quits as American TV calls his Book on Hitler too boring By Emma Hartley SIR Ian Kershaw, the award-winning biographer of Adolf Hitler, has walked out on a new drama about the rise of the German dictator following a series of disagreements over the project's historical accuracy. Sir Ian, whose acclaimed biography Hitler: 1889-1936 was to have formed the basis of the CBS mini-series starring Robert Carlyle as the Führer, has withdrawn all co-operation from the programme and asked for his name to be removed from the credits. The series' producers have admitted that Sir Ian left the project because they wanted to make it more dramatic than his book and add new characters. CBS, the American network which is funding the drama, has suggested that his biography was simply too dry to turn into compulsive prime-time drama.
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Leslie Moonves, the President of CBS, was more succinct in explaining why the series was no longer directly based on Hubris: "The Kershaw book was an academic piece," he said. "It was quite dry. We needed more incidents." The comments are a far cry from last year, when Ed Gernon, the co-producer of the £14 million series, said that he and CBS were committed to producing a historically accurate rather than sensationalist portrait of Hitler and that using Sir Ian's books would ensure that this would happen. "We wanted to make sure we had the most unimpeachable source material," Gernon said. "It took quite a bit of convincing to get this scholar from England to let an American network use his book to make this."
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Sir Ian has refused to give detailed reasons for the ending of his relationship with the programme or comment on suggestions that he had been angered by the producers' attempts to over-dramatise his work. In a statement last week, he said only: [i]"I took the decision some months ago to withdraw from any connection with the mini-series. I have not fallen out with the production company but have had no dealings with them since I withdrew."[/i]
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Sir Ian's withdrawal from the CBS production comes only months after Rupert Murdoch's Fox Television network pulled the plug on a similar film about Hitler, based on a script by William Boyd, because they feared it was too sympathetic to the dictator. As The Telegraph revealed in December, the network pulled out of the co-production with the BBC following criticism by prominent Jewish writers and campaigners in the US. Mr Boyd, the acclaimed author of Brazzaville Beach and A Good Man In Africa, told this newspaper: [i]"The Americans lost their nerve after a number of people who had not read what I had written passed judgment on it."[/i]
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Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:44:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 6:02:33 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:53:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:56:31 AM EDT
ETH You make mention of an article which claims the Gestapo investigated Hitler's family history. Do you think the Gestapo would have been permitted to go into something like that? Would not Hitler's henchmen have prevented the uncovering of something so potentially damaging? If such an investigation did take place, my guess would be it was an opposition group a la Gen. von Blomberg or, later, Adm. Kanaris or Mar. Rommel.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:06:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 6:46:51 AM EDT by liberty86]
Originally Posted By pogo: You really don't think they could make an accurate movie about Hitler in our enlightened age. THAT would qualify as a horror movie, how easy it was to happen and how rational each step was, and for what good reasons. First off, Hitler was not crazy until the very end (perhaps). [red]It is odd - Hitler was no more antisemetic before ww1, according to his fellow soldiers, than anyone else was. The large majority of Bolshevik leaders were Jewish, and fighting Bolshivist revolutionaries meant fighting Jews. Not much of a leap in logic, and noone in old Europe needed much of a reason to hate Jews in the first place.[/red] I hate that - the modern tendancy to paint communists as more progressive Liberals. Especially in the 1919 - 1930's timeframe.
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I suspect you'll take som flak over this. It's true. Jews are overwhelmingly Communist/Socialist in their politics. Some say Marx was a Jew. Most of the old bolsheviks were jews.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:11:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: I catagorically deny any involvement with any slaves, however I will humbly admit I like my women like my coffee..........
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Cold and bitter?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:20:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: I suspect you'll take som faak over this. It's true. Jews are overwhelmingly Communist/Socialist in their politics. Some say Marx was a Jew. Most of the old bolsheviks were jews.
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[url]http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/museum/marx1.htm[/url]
Marx was a German of Jewish origin who lived much of his life in exile in France and Great Britain.
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Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:07:18 AM EDT
I find it interesting to see a Jewish owned Media empire is making Hitler "Documentries". We will SURELY get the "truth" about Hitler, AND the Communists from the jews!! [ROFL2] Even the books author took a hike!! There was a Hitler show on History channel last nite too. Pretty good.
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