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Posted: 10/26/2013 2:59:11 PM EDT
My grandfather died a few years ago and one of the few things I got was an old shotgun and a rifle he brought back from WWII.  I'm pretty sure the shotgun is a cheap Sears and Roebuck 10ga.  I have always been told that the rifle is an Arisaka 99.  But, as I'm looking at pics on the interwebz it appears that the sling mount on the 99 is on the side and this one has the sling mount on the bottom.  It also has the typical mum that they all do but one other odd thing is that this was has a "brand" on the butt stock.  Of course it is in Japanese and I speak Japanese about as well as I speak Russian.  So, with that said, I need help from the ARFCOM collective to help ID this rifle.  I'm 99% certain it is just a 99 that was bastardized at some point, but I want to make sure.  I have about 15 rounds of ammo for it, but I don't have the brass balls to shoot it.  It holds no sentimental value for me (long story), so I'll probably trade it for a PMag during the next rush.

































Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.  It also has a marking on the bayonet lug: Christmas tree 3 8 5.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:00:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 3:10:55 PM EDT by substandard]


ETA: I was wrong yet again. Type 38 6.5mm





Japanese Arisaka I believe it is the Type 99 or what the US GIs called the "31"
7.7mm or roughly .31 caliber so the GIs used the 31 term.

ETA: It has some collector value especially with the dust cover and unground mum





 
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:03:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By substandard:
Japanese Arisaka I believe it is the Type 99 or what the US GIs called the "31"

7.7mm or roughly .31 caliber so the GIs used the 31 term.


ETA: It has some collector value especially with the dust cover and unground mum
 
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Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:05:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 3:07:01 PM EDT by Gastard]
Been  de-milled . Not  worth  much . note : see  holes  in  chamber
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:06:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By substandard:
Japanese Arisaka I believe it is the Type 99 or what the US GIs called the "31"

7.7mm or roughly .31 caliber so the GIs used the 31 term.


ETA: It has some collector value especially with the dust cover and unground mum
 
View Quote


Yeah, that is about all I know about Arisaka's as well. Actually, substandard knows quite a bit more.

The visible mum means that it was a bring back prior to end of hostilities, I think. Wasn't the mum ground off post war? Something like that.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:07:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 3:08:35 PM EDT by Escape_from_NY]
You have a Japanese Type 38. Caliber is 6.5mm.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:09:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 3:10:48 PM EDT by para_frame]
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Originally Posted By Gastard:
Been  de-milled . Not  worth  much . note : see  holes  in  chamber
View Quote

it is a Type 38 and not demilled, those are gas vent holes.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:09:43 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Gastard:


Been  de-milled . Not  worth  much . note : see  holes  in  chamber
View Quote


Normal, they are gas escape ports in the event of ruptured cases.
 
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:10:15 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Escape_from_NY:


You have a Japanese Type 38. Caliber is 6.5mm.
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Oops. You are indeed correct.



 
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:10:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gastard:
Been  de-milled . Not  worth  much . note : see  holes  in  chamber
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NO. Isn't there enough bull shit on the web. There's no need to pile- on more.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:22:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 3:47:56 PM EDT by USMCTanker]
Is the bore chrome lined?  The Japs did that, but I'm not sure if all their rifles had it or not.  

Either way, it's an interesting rifle, and I'd hang on to it simply because a Jap rifle with the mum intact isn't as common as rifles with them ground off.  

My dad's brother brought one back like yours from an Island somewhere in the Pacific mainland Japan (ETA: just asked my father) in '45.  He was a submariner, and when they pulled into port and left the boat, a sailor directed him and his shipmates to go over to a pile of Jap rifles and pick one out.  He did, and it was a long type 99.  He brought it back aboard the sub to the States and had it until he passed away a short time ago.  It had the mum, and a mismatched bolt.  

I like Jap rifles.  The pre-war versions were well made and quite attractive in my eyes.

I also like the era my uncles served in.  The thought of being able to just bring back an enemy rifle as a souvenir seems so alien in our current political climate.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:29:41 PM EDT
I'm no expert on Japanese rifles but isn't that stock cartouch unusual?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:34:22 PM EDT
Very nice Type 38 you have there. The 6.5 Jap is a pleasant round to shoot. Providing there is no bore obstruction or anything, it is perfectly fine to shoot. The Japanese metalurgy of this time period yielded the strongest actions of any other WWII era rifle. If you don't want to keep it, let me know what you want for it, I may be interested.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:35:02 PM EDT
That dust cover (if it is not a repro) is VERY desirable to collectors. Prices on WWII Jap rifles have increased in recent years from next to nothing to respectable money. DON't LOSE THAT DUSTCOVER!
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:36:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gastard:
Been  de-milled . Not  worth  much . note : see  holes  in  chamber
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 3:39:58 PM EDT
Been demilled, huh. I'll give you like 50 bucks for it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 4:07:35 PM EDT by RovingTexan]
Thanks for all the help guys.  I knew this would be the place to ask.






So I have a type 38. I'll have to do some research on those.  My grandfather was on a mine sweeper off the coast of Okinawa and when they made landfall after they took the island he grabbed it and brought it back.  It has been sitting in his closet since then.  So, I am 99% sure it is all original.  I'll make sure not to lose the dust cover!  







I really appreciate everyone's help in identifying the rifle.  Does anyone read Japanese enough to make out what the branding on the stock means?  




ETA:  I see that ammo is hard to come by and where it is available it's about $1/round.  I have 3 stripper clips of 5 rounds each that I probably won't fire.  But, I do feel comfortable shooting it at some point.  The barrel is clean and clear but I can't tell if it is chrome lined.  

 
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:39:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 6:18:34 PM EDT
Ty DUB.  It looks like I have a Koishikawa or Kokura.  
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 12:49:23 PM EDT
So, for those of you who know, ball park value on the rifle?
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 12:57:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 1:02:39 PM EDT by Der_Hans]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RovingTexan:
Ty DUB.  It looks like I have a Koishikawa or Kokura.  
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Originally Posted By RovingTexan:
Ty DUB.  It looks like I have a Koishikawa or Kokura.  


Check your serial number, another page out there has the ranges so you can figure out which arsenal, I'll try to google it up.

I have a Kokura arsenal Type-38 sitting in the safe.  I keep meaning to shoot it some day.  A vet brought it back from the pacific, his wife threw it in a trash can when he passed away in the 60s, and my dad rescued it from the trash can.

ETA: Mine also has the intact mum, but somebody either tossed or lost the dust cover and sling.

Originally Posted By RovingTexan:
ETA:  I see that ammo is hard to come by and where it is available it's about $1/round.  I have 3 stripper clips of 5 rounds each that I probably won't fire.  But, I do feel comfortable shooting it at some point.  The barrel is clean and clear but I can't tell if it is chrome lined.  
 


If you do shoot those rounds, remember the primers are corrosive as hell, and you need to clean the rifle properly.  This involves hot soapy water.
Those rounds and clips are also probably collector items with enough value that you might be able to sell a clip of five for enough cash to buy a box of 20 rounds from Norma.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 1:04:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 1:05:56 PM EDT by Gastard]
Sorry  fellas . Maybe  the  appearance  has  artificially kept  the  prices  down  all  these  years .  I'm  more  inclined  to  think  the  lack  of  good ( or any cheap ) ammo
did  them  in  so  far  as  popularity .
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 2:01:49 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Der_Hans:
Check your serial number, another page out there has the ranges so you can figure out which arsenal, I'll try to google it up.



I have a Kokura arsenal Type-38 sitting in the safe.  I keep meaning to shoot it some day.  A vet brought it back from the pacific, his wife threw it in a trash can when he passed away in the 60s, and my dad rescued it from the trash can.



ETA: Mine also has the intact mum, but somebody either tossed or lost the dust cover and sling.





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Originally Posted By Der_Hans:



Originally Posted By RovingTexan:

Ty DUB.  It looks like I have a Koishikawa or Kokura.  




Check your serial number, another page out there has the ranges so you can figure out which arsenal, I'll try to google it up.



I have a Kokura arsenal Type-38 sitting in the safe.  I keep meaning to shoot it some day.  A vet brought it back from the pacific, his wife threw it in a trash can when he passed away in the 60s, and my dad rescued it from the trash can.



ETA: Mine also has the intact mum, but somebody either tossed or lost the dust cover and sling.







The Japanese usually removed the dust covers once they entered combat. The dust covers made a lot of noise when working the action.



 
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 2:02:27 PM EDT
Value has actually gone up along with other milsurp. Norma has made 6.5 ammo for yrs and prvi brass and reloading dies are readily available.

OP's Type 38 isn't in spectacular condition but having the dust cover, Mum, original sling are big +'s, 900k serial should be around 1920 IIRR ?
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 2:05:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 2:06:40 PM EDT by Screechjet1]
6.5 Jap is a nice shooting round out of the long barrel.



Lexoil that sling. That is a desirable original, from appearances. Be careful around the paint.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 2:07:34 PM EDT
The lack of a proper buttplate make me think late-war last-ditch rifle.

Would make it from the Kokura Arsenal sometime after middle 1944.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 6:45:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Darkstar117:
The lack of a proper buttplate make me think late-war last-ditch rifle.

Would make it from the Kokura Arsenal sometime after middle 1944.
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It has a early flat butt plate. That Type 38 is VERY PRE-WAR.... like being made in the 1920's or even earlier. The Japanese actually did make rifles prior to WW2
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 7:07:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By substandard:

The Japanese usually removed the dust covers once they entered combat. The dust covers made a lot of noise when working the action.


 
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Originally Posted By substandard:
Originally Posted By Der_Hans:
Originally Posted By RovingTexan:
Ty DUB.  It looks like I have a Koishikawa or Kokura.  


Check your serial number, another page out there has the ranges so you can figure out which arsenal, I'll try to google it up.

I have a Kokura arsenal Type-38 sitting in the safe.  I keep meaning to shoot it some day.  A vet brought it back from the pacific, his wife threw it in a trash can when he passed away in the 60s, and my dad rescued it from the trash can.

ETA: Mine also has the intact mum, but somebody either tossed or lost the dust cover and sling.



The Japanese usually removed the dust covers once they entered combat. The dust covers made a lot of noise when working the action.


 


I think that is an US myth. There are too many Arisakas around with matching dust covers and to many lose covers floating around for them to have been removed during the war. I can remember years ago when you could find dust covers by the box at gunshows. I've sorted through many, many boxes of them hunting numbers to match rifles I've had.
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