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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/6/2001 4:36:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 4:36:45 PM EDT by Rogue_Star]
What do you think of being a union member? My union has helped out on only a very few problems in 15 years. Unions are anti-gun. Unions are pro-democrat. They spend part of my dues without my permission on politicians that I despise. They are a dis-incentive to good work. How? I don't have to work hard or smart to 'earn' a premium wage. All I have to do is skid along, and the union will negotiate all my wage's. Even I work hard, even if I'm a master of my work, I earn no more that some newbie or slacker. Yeah, that's incentive! My union has refused to allow it's members to see where our dues goes. They flat out will not let us see the books. What are they hiding? And God forbid if I say anything negative about the unions, or make a pest of myself. They'll blackball me, get me kicked out, or refuse to help me when I need it. Sound more like a communist organization to me.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 4:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 4:44:28 PM EDT by Striker]
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 4:43:27 PM EDT
Are you troolin to get a PROUD Teamster like me fired up? While some of your statements are true, Unions are the group that brought you weekends...Unions DO have a place in America. My company is the lowest form of commie slime on this earth. We need protection...More harm than good? HELL NO.... Are you SURE you get union scale, or just jealous????
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 4:48:10 PM EDT
You are 100% right on the money. Democrats have long catered to the labor movement in this country. Now that in itself doesn't bother me. If union members want to believe that Democrats will best serve them, then that is their perogative. I personally don't think that Democrats do a damn thing to help unions. NAFTA and expanded trade with China were cornerstones of the Clinton administrations trade policy. That did not help unions. The thing that really gets me is when unions including mine, rally behind Democratic causes like gun control that don't have a damn thing to do with the union. To me this is stealing. They are taking my money and spending it on causes that have nothing to do with my job and that is a disgrace.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 4:54:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 4:56:00 PM EDT by patriot_dave]
Unions are good for slackers and bad for achivers. Anyone who is smart and hard working will be held down by unions as they tend to fix income based on seniority and position. Every case I saw the union defend when I worked in a union shop was the union defending some low life for continuously screwing up. Management never wanted to go after good workers, but to disipline the bad workers they had to go after everyone equally. Management had to show that they kept absentee/tardy/neglegence warnings on everyone to have any substance when going after the slackers. I'm sure there are cases where management just gets a hard on for someone and goes after them, but if your making them money your generally safe. Besides I am highly principled and would rather loose my job than be force to donate to a cause I adamantly disagree with like gun control. Just want to clarify I have no problem with workers getting together to form a force against bad management though.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 4:54:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: While some of your statements are true, Unions are the group that brought you weekends...Unions DO have a place in America. My company is the lowest form of commie slime on this earth. We need protection...More harm than good? HELL NO.... Are you SURE you get union scale, or just jealous????
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Well, there's allways the other side of the coin, isn't there. Amen on weekends, and overtime. I work 40, anymore and they pay time-and-a-half. My building has so many non-union workers workin' so many more than 40 hrs for NO extra pay. WHY? I guess cause the employer is too cheap hire enough workers to get the job done from 9-5. But still, it really bugs me that unions support the likes of Clinton/Gore. That's against my religion I tell ya! There's an angle for you, Democrats support abortion - Unions support Democrats - My religion is anti-abortion sooooo: the union is forcing me to go against my religion! That's not RIGHT! Where's a good lawyer?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 4:59:28 PM EDT
At one time DEMS looked out for our unions. Before some sold us out at every turn and lied every time he opened his mouth. Unions are great politicians SUCK!!! GO STEELWORKERS.... Later FANTOM [v]
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 5:32:55 PM EDT
The unions really have to stand up to the Democratic party. The Dem's just take our votes for granted and then pass NAFTA, so their corporate soft money keeps coming in. Why should the Dem's listen to us, we won't vote for the Republicans, and when we vote for the Greens, they think we are un-loyal. Why should we be loyal, they are not loyal to us. The problem with the Greens is they would like to shut down a lot of strong union industries. The Dems want them to move to Mexico. A guy just can't win.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 5:45:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SS109: we won't vote for the Republicans,
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The hell we won't! I didn't. Check the April America's 1st Freedom magazine (NRA), page 22:
...Last year, Al Gore beat jGeorge Bush by a much slimmer margin among union households, 53 percent to 43.
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That's 43% of union members NOT voting for Gore! I hope you value your rights more than your job. You can always get another job, what about lost rights?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 6:00:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 6:00:20 PM EDT by MrClean]
I have been a pro union or union member all my working life. That makes me a sucker? I don't think so. A local union is only as strong as it's members. As far as union members being anti gun, that is a phoney issue, and I would defy Rogue Star to prove to me that union members are indeed anti gun. I just don't believe Rogue Star could travel to Wyoming, or Montana, or many other states to find the rank and file opposing the right to own firearms. To be sure, I do not support all the views of the AFL/CIO, but I am loyal to union priciples. Just my thoughts, John H Osterholm
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 6:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 6:07:57 PM EDT by Backup]
I'm New to the Iron Workers and it [the Union] is saving my life. I had my own biz and worked all the time. It's so dog eat dog with the low bidder gets the work senario and then you say oh no what did I do this time when you do get work. I like the protection of the brotherhood. The hours and the bennys. I had none of that working for myself. So enough about work hows your AR-15?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:36:47 PM EDT
Ive been in 2 unions, Aerospace machinist and AFSCME 270 and all they cared about was collecting the dues ! They viewed us as farm animals in a pasture " keep them dumb and happy and collect the milk ( dues )" The AFSCME had there annuall conference in DC and it was on C-SPAN, it almost made me sick the crap the speakers were spewing out. As for using dues for political purposese the unions position is that if they had to get my permission it would violate he unions right to free speech !!!!
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:56:50 PM EDT
I'm kind of ambivalent about unions. I guess to sum it up neatly, I believe they are a necessary evil. I've been a union member for 13 years now and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that so far they have done far good for me than harm. And to be honest, I personally see no difference in banding together as employees to speak collectively to an employer than banding together as gun owners to speak collectively to our government. You also need to acknowledge the other side of the incentive or merit based system, too. Which is that socializing, politicking, backstabbing, brown nosing, and a host of other factors unrelated to how well one performs his job often come into play in deciding who gets the promotion or bonus. Personally, I'd rather tolerate the occassional drone being protected by the union rather than work in an environment like that. I've always been a hard worker but have never been particularly adept at kissing ass, scheming, or political manuevering.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:10:04 PM EDT
Note: I'm not in a union. In fact, I'm in management. There are two unions at the facility that I work at: IBEW & Machinists. The shop is about 25% "oldtimers" and the rest "newbies". The oldtimers have different/higher payscales then the newbies. Because of the contract, the oldtimers will always get more vacation, higher 401K contributions, etc. All of this, and they produce far less per manhour worked. The newbies asked me why I get a bonus & they don't; "Go ask your union rep" was my reply. (They don't get one because their union insisted on us not giving out bonuses.) Man, you should've seen the pissed off looks I got!! BTW, the oldtimers just got a pay raise (about $19/hr) and they celebrated by passing out notices to the newbies that Union dues were going up!! Paul
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:11:19 PM EDT
Statistically 20% of union members are gun owners. In the last election my union warned us to vote your pocketbook and vote democratic. I used to donate money occasionally for candidates friendly to the construction unions. Not any more. I got luckey and made a few bucks on the last bull stock market and shared with the NRA. Not one penny for Dick Gephart and his anti gun friends. It seems that many in my union have voted their guns in the last election as the union has admmitted they were not able to deliver the vote due to the gun issue. Not all Democrats are bad and not all Republicans are our friends. However you can usually always tell when a Politician is lying. His lips are moving. [.!.!.] I do construction work. I work hard. I get paid well and have decent benefits. The young guys help the older guys. Everyone get sick or hurt sooner or later. We all stick togeather and help each other out. Same way with firearms. We have to stand togeather or we shall each, swing from a tree one by one.[;)]
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:16:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By oldtimer: Statistically 20% of union members are gun owners. In the last election my union warned us to vote your pocketbook and vote democratic. I used to donate money occasionally for candidates friendly to the construction unions. Not any more. I got luckey and made a few bucks on the last bull stock market and shared with the NRA. Not one penny for Dick Gephart and his anti gun friends. It seems that many in my union have voted their guns in the last election as the union has admmitted they were not able to deliver the vote due to the gun issue. Not all Democrats are bad and not all Republicans are our friends. However you can usually always tell when a Politician is lying. His lips are moving. [.!.!.] I do construction work. I work hard. I get paid well and have decent benefits. The young guys help the older guys. Everyone get sick or hurt sooner or later. We all stick togeather and help each other out. Same way with firearms. We have to stand togeather or we shall each, swing from a tree one by one.[;)]
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Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:27:19 PM EDT
When I was in a union (Local 1105) they treated me and my coworkers like shi!t. They said they didn't care when management was braking labor laws, and they gave the company right to eliminate our senority pay scale when asked to do so. I went from making $7.25 per hour to minimum wage, and the next month they had the balls to raise union dues. They also sold out the medical/dental plan for my position for part time workers. Calling them for help was pointless because they would say say that it wasn't their job to fight our battles with management! When asked what they did for us they would say "You have to be a member of the union to work at QFC" and promptly hang up. There is a law that states that unions cannot give your dues to canidates that you do not support if you tell them not to do so. If asked they must refund all dues that went to politics. When I asked that they do this they said no, knowing that I had no means of fighting back (at my position there was no way that I could afford a lawyer). Any organization that won't let its members see the books doesn't help its members no matter what the leaders tell you. Screw them because given the chance, they will screw you. Unions may take a anti-gun stance, but their members are most certainly not! You will be hard pressed to find a more pro-gun group of people than union members. And Rogue Star unions are communist. Kyle
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:49:29 PM EDT
Three years ago I was running a track-hoe for a small construction company making $11.00/hr and zero benefits. After I joined the union and switched over to a union controlled company, doing the exact same job as before, the pay is $19.80 plus health, dental and eye insurance. This was last seasons pay, I don't know how much it went up over the winter. If I went to a 'Highway Heavy' company, the wage is $24.75. My $24 a month for dues is nothing when you see the difference it made in pay. It also give me the ability to buy more ARs. I know people who spend more than $24/mo on Pepsi, Levis and their HBO bill. I guess that would make them anti-handgun supporters, right? I dropped off an application at DPMS the other day to try for a job. If their pay seems fair I'll take the job if they call. I think combining a fun hobby with work would be great. I don't know if they are union or not. I know Remington is now.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 9:02:48 PM EDT
I'm a IBEW Local 48 member. I'm an organized hand and just joined the union last September. Right now I'm on a job that sucks and they treat me like s**t. It seems that they feel that they can break any laber laws they want and if you complain they just send you to a job that is even worse untill you drag up. The pay is great and the retirement good but I was treated wiyh more respect working for a non-union shop.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 9:13:51 PM EDT
AFSCME sucks ass, if I was a phucking moron,janitor or school bus driver they might get me 10 or 12 bucks an hour. Have a skill and it is like throwing 40 dollars a month in the toilet every month. Thank god these dumbasses don't have control of my pension. They cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 9:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2001 9:46:35 PM EDT by prk]
Where I work they used to have a union. Even though I am salaried, we would get essentially the same benefits and raises as the people in the bargaining unit. Then the company scattered the hourly people out to around 15 offices around the state, which was hard for the union to deal with, and eventually the bargaining unit was down to just over 100 and they decertified. Of course, during this time there were mandatory pep rallies for managers where we were force-fed propaganda about how much better it would be when the workers could negotiate directly with the company instead of through an intermediary. What a load of BS - most of these morons actually believed it. The first thing that went away was the sick leave. Cut it in half and called what was left "Income Protection" (only available if you were out 5 days or went in for surgery or had chronic disease & regular appointments) Guess what, now they took away all the accumulated hours in that category and did away with it. Now they have the "Improved" company paid disability that starts after 5 days. Yeah, right. Let's see, over the years we have had the vacation accrual cut, the health, vision & dental that was company-paid is now about half paid by the employees. They went to a so-called "cash balance" retirement plan and cut out company-paid retiree medical plan. Oh, yeah, I forgot. We were not eligible for overtime wages (salaried, just had to work as long as it took), but anytime we were 15 min late or took a couple of hours off to go to the Dr. or meet with the kid's teacher, we were told we had to take that out of our vacation. I found out that was illegal, and had to go eyeball-to-eyeball with the S.O.B. Remember, this is the a-hole who decides who has to travel and when, and I'm raising the kid on my own. Well, it sure felt nice when he came back from the labor lawyer's with his tail between his legs. But it was a very uncomfortable time until then. Now even with a union, I wouldn't have been represented, but I gotta believe it would have been a different scene, with more people willing to stand up to his chickens**t style. So while I've seen a couple of unions operate and become as much a hindrance as a help for the workers, I also believe that without them, the company will jump at every opportunity to take away benefits and screw with the employees. Even those not directly represented get some benefit from a union being there. I forgot to mention - now that there are "merit increases" instead of negotiated increases, whaddya know - the suckbutts are cleaning up. The ones who express any disagreement with our esteemed leaders, well they're lucky to get any kind of raise. Oh yeah, they ****ed with the salary structure recently, too so that my ceiling is $10k lower. If I were in a union, I would be among the dissident, however. In my previous, unionized life, they took their dues, and if you wanted to go to a meeting, you had to squeeze information out of the local. Hard. The stewards wouldn't get off their butts to force repair of the ladders which were wired & some had shorts to the frame. I'd be one of the hell-raisers who fought the campaign donations and raised hell about any anti-gun agenda. But then I'm not the naive kid I once was. Now I'm a cranky old fart. [red][size=4]P.R.K.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 9:51:47 PM EDT
I successfully assisted in getting a Union into a place I used to work at. The place and the management didn't appreciate it too much. Rules were broken and not enforced. Eventually we parted ways. They tried to fire me. I insisted on "resigning". I won. Sort of. Now, I still am a Union represented employee at a different outfit, and I see the pros and cons of the game. But, I love my Socialist-Pinko job, so I'm stuck with it. It's good for me and my family. Difficult to be in this spot. I feel so "dirty"!
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 9:55:54 PM EDT
When I was in college I worked at a trucking firm unloading and loading freight with a Hi-Lo. Because it had wheels, it was a teamsters union shop. Myself and some my friends were "casual workers" but we still had to pay an initiation fee and monthly dues so that we could work there. I asked what benefits we would get and they told me, "nothing". Basically it was extortion. I refused to join and they kept me off their rolls but still made me pay the dues. The union steward would harass me whenever he could and got his cronies to help him. Whoever thought that organized crime no longer has control of the union need to think again.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:42:53 PM EDT
I have no problem with workers coming together for collective bargaining with their employer. the problem starts when those same workers fix it so that I can't bargain with my employer without their represention. The idea of a closed shop seems to me an idea straight from Marx and Engels.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:11:40 AM EDT
Hey Rogue Star, What union are you in? I was Oil, Chemical, and Atomic Workers. Merged with the paper workers. So now its PACE. Paper, Allied industrial, Chemical, and Energy workers. I agree that the national union leadership has political views different from the membership. Some of my dues are used for political causes I do not support. Oh well. Illinois is a closed shop state. Sometime before I started working here they voted for a contract that made our plant an open shop job site. I don't have to be in the union if I don't want. But sitting on the fence is uncomfortable. Do I side with management and the Swiss Nazis who own the plant? Or stick with my brothers who are out in the chemical muck with me nights, holidays, weekends? Made my decision. I stick with my brothers. hazmat
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:24:13 AM EDT
Rogue Star, Ever hear of Beck vs. C.W.A.? You can opt out of Union membership and pay a reduced dues schedule as well as receive a statement of how dues were spent. There's a class action suit right now against the Unions over disclosure responsibilities, the Unions have hidden this fact from workers.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:35:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2001 5:35:46 AM EDT by Cible]
FWIW, while it may be true that Democrats have long courted Unions, don't forget that Democrats used to have a far different philosophy. Ronald Reagan was a Democrat. He voted for FDR each time. Reagan says that he never left the Democratic Party; he says that the Democrats left him. Rank-and-file, lunchbox labor used to HATE the intellectual elite and all they associated with, who were inevitably Communist at worst, Marxist at best. Their climbing in bed together is a relatively recent phenomenon. Times like now, when the election map clearly shows the divide, when the results clearly show the division, are the times when an intelligent Republican Party could convert a lot of labor. The only problem seems to be finding an intelligent Republican Party. BTW Striker, the French portion on you webpage is a millimeter or two lower than the English portion. Isn't that against some law? You are sooooo busted....
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:37:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2001 5:38:50 AM EDT by Rons_Toys]
Check out this site for a insite on what some of the Union made products. And these are just the UAW ones. Real eye opener. Ron [url]http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/products/webuy1.html[/url] Toys Music Cosmetics Sports Publications Appliances Medical Items Beer Autos 1998/1999 Autos 2000 Autos 2001 Light Trucks & Vans 1998/1999 Light Trucks & Vans 2000 Light Trucks & Vans 2001 Automobile Batteries Automobile Parts Food Lawn Care Home Repair Tools Housewares & Office Factory Built Homes ********************** Sporting goods Charles Rice UAW Local 875, Indiana Boat covers Colt UAW Local 376, Connecticut Small handguns Sporter rifles Commemoratives Dare Products Corp. UAW Local 376, Connecticut Boat Ropes Hahn UAW Local 1404, Indiana Toro Golf Carts FNT UAW Local 2229, Michigan Fish net and twine Tennis netting Volleyball netting Backstop netting Hillerich & Bradsby UAW Local 251, Ontario Louisville hockey sticks PowerBilt golf clubs ITT Jabsco UAW Local 509, California Water pumps Impellers Bilge pumps Macerators Electric motors for pools Pool pumps LML Corp. UAW Local 1404, Indiana Riviera Cruiser pontoon boats North & Judd UAW Local 376, New York Marine hardware Horse hardware Brands: Anchor, Wilcox-Crittenden Remington Arms (DuPont) UAW Local 366, Ohio Clay pigeons
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:55:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 5:58:05 AM EDT
Just trying to keep you out of the ol' Bastille, mon frere. [;)]
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 6:24:53 AM EDT
Have been a union member for 21 years.They are a necessary evil.Without them , my company would close up and move to Mexico.What really burns my ass is that the CEO just got an 11 million dollar bonus.Management wants us to work 10 percent faster...The union has really helped the standard of living for lots of people in this country...I dont agree with their politics...I just do my best and go home...Some areas will allow you to receive your share of unwanted political contributions back..check your state law
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 6:25:40 AM EDT
Re: Air Traffic Controllers I was hired in 1988 7 yrs after strike. It is the best job,people were working about 4 hrs out of an 8 hour day, and they were warned that if they struck they would be fired which is what happened. When you hire in as an air traffic controller you sign a no-strike clause. We still have a union and it only looks out for the people in the east, and they get paid about $10000 more than the western controllers do, where is the fairness in that? When I was a member the dues were $100 every 2 weeks, I can spend that much better than the union.
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 8:22:49 AM EDT
I have belonged to 3 unions. The last was the UAW. I was disappointed that some of my brothers and sisters sold the local out. I’ve walked the line and am proud of it. I used my union negotiated benefits to go to school. For the last 4 years, I have been in management. The main difference? Before I did not know if the union or management was going to screw me. Now all I have to worry about is my bosses. I also have the ability to negotiate my own labor agreements instead of collective bargaining. The best part, I have doubled my wage in the last two years.
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