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Posted: 6/4/2001 6:56:54 PM EDT
O'Reilly talked about it tonight. What do you think? Should the U.S. Military be patrolling the U.S./ Mexican Border? - bricklayer
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 7:03:21 PM EDT
Fricking Border Patrol is getting run over! I have a friend who's brother works in S.Texas and he says he get's shot at, at least 4 times a week. The agents dont have the equipment, funding, etc. to effectively do their jobs. Border agents dont even have night vision to see at night. I think it's a blessing.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 7:08:36 PM EDT
Illegal immigration is the "planned destruction of America". If it continues, our borders, culture and language will die. We have something worth preserving here. We must stop illegal immigration. However, don't count on it as the New World Order types need the US out of the way so that world government can be implemented....and many of those NWO types are members of our own government.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 8:07:47 PM EDT
I do believe that our domestic interests would be better served by pulling some of our troops back on US soil to secure our borders. We are the only superpower that does not have secured borders if I'm not mistaken... This just seems to be a no brainer to me. [sniper] [b]The Sniper
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 8:23:13 PM EDT
There should be feds on the border, but not the US military. Our job during peacetime is to train for battle, not to babysit illegal immigrants.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 8:27:50 PM EDT
Closing the border with the military would be horribly expensive and almost impossible to sustain.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 8:37:04 PM EDT
I think it's a good idea. For once, we should protect our own borders rather than those of Germany, Japan, the countries formerly known as Yugoslavia, Kuwait, etc.. The only problem I see is that how do you keep it a military operation without turning it into a police operation. I guess the only way is to have the army physically remove the illegals from the country. In other words, no processing, no paperwork, no feeding, no air conditioned buses, no BS. A simple bayonet push to the border. It could be good training in handling POW's, herding hostile unarmed people who don't speak the same language. In Korea, we had a terrible time getting the POW's safely (both theirs and ours) to camp unless we had help from a translator. I hate to say this but, if the army opened fire in defense of our country on a few groups of invaders, there wouldn't be as much of a problem. My vote, we send the Marines to the southwest armed with only a knife with orders that no one shall cross the border. I think they might come-up with some "creative" ways to protect us from the invaders.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 8:58:40 PM EDT
I used to argee with this argument to send the US military down to the Mexican border. Then my opinions on the drug war and illegal immigration changed as I learned more about economics. I think, if we want to stop the drug related violence and illegal immigration along our Mexican border, we should legalize/decriminalize drugs and open up our borders for free passage and trade, while eliminating all aspects of the social welfare system in this country. The drug war has failed. I attend Wash U in St. Louis, and from what I have seen there, people still get their drugs and desire to use them no matter what the consequences are. We spend billions every year to send the DEA and border patrol to fight illegal narcotics. However, it continues still today with no end in sight. Drug dealers prosper off the drug war for one reason: They have a huge economic incentive to smuggle drugs into America. This economic incentive is due to the fact, that drugs cannot be legally made, distributed or sold in America. Thus, the payoff is huge considering the costs involved. It is just like the prohibition of alcohol. The rate of "abusers" still remained inelastic, despite the ban. This resulted in more crime and murders as people fought to obtain market share, etc. By making drugs legal, we eliminate that economic incentive for smugglers to get into this country. Gangs would no longer fight amongst each other and would ceast to exist, as the "drug abusers", whom themselves commit crimes, would be able to buy cheaper drugs. Now, am I setting up a nation of drug abusers? No, because by eliminating the social welfare system, medicare, social security and welfare, drug abusers would have an economic incentive not to stay "stoned" in order to survive. Yes this is tough love, but this country existed into the 1930s without drug illegalization (except cocaine which was outlawed a little after the turn of the century). Basically, people would learn the hard way and evolve/learn from it, with not external costs to the surrounding society for the poor decisions that they made. As for illegal immigration, opening up the border completely, combined with the lack of social welfare benefits, would discourage those from squatting here in America just for aide. The job market would be a lot more competitive and in the long run, the living standard for Mexico would be raised near ours. I'm expecting a lot of heat from this, so I'll add more to this arugment when I get some responses. themao PS: Yes, I am a newly found libertarian who had the displeasure in voting for Bush.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 9:11:08 PM EDT
We pay the military at peace or at war. Us them to secure the boarder "BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY". This would include free fire zones and the like. If you want to come to this country do it legally. It should be harder to come into this country then to get into say a Six Flags Amusement Park. That being said I also feel that if person wants to imigrate here and has useful skills to offer and no criminal history they should be allowed in. They should also be thrown out if it is later found they falsified background or identity information or commit felony crimes. Those that are found here illegally who are comitting felony crimes should just be put to death in short order. There is no reason why we should pay for some foreigner to live 20+ years in our prisons where life is 10X better then in the third world craphole from which they came. Anyway YES USE THE MILITARY TO CONTROL AND SECURE THE BOARDER. [frag]
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 11:10:11 PM EDT
Then what happens when some dirt poor sheep shepard who can't speak english crosses the boarder looking for his livestock while carrying a walking stick and he gets shot and dies because a 19 year old Marine didn't know what to do...... Keep the Military off of the boarders, give the INS and Boarder Patrol more funding and manpower.
Link Posted: 6/4/2001 11:42:01 PM EDT
Why did he cross the multiple barb wired fences with all the skull and cross bone signs and pictures explaining what would happen to him if he did. If his sheep got past that and the mines (trust me they wouldnt) then he'd better write them off as a total loss[uzi]
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 6:27:02 AM EDT
Nice spin. Did you get the walking stick story straight from his family's lawyer? Let's be honest for a minute. He had a rifle and pointed it various members of the team, and he was finally shot. Was the Marine going to shoot the rifle out of the guy's hands like on tv? Or run/roll over there and kick it out of the guy's hand? Turn off the computer and go back to watching Walker, Texas Dumb Ass. The Military sent the team out there, but the kid had a gun and wanted to screw with the servicemen, and got what was coming to him. Just like in Kent State, where someone told the kids the troops had no rounds, so the kids decided to mess with the troops, they got what happens when you do that. The kid got shot because he wanted to point his gun at some Marines.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 6:48:40 AM EDT
Happyshooter, the kids at Kent State were UNARMED American citizens and they weren't 'messing' with the ill trained National Guardsmen. I am one of the people they were protesting against, but I was serving to protect their right to protest. You are way out of line and their is no comparison to what happened or happens on the Mexican border. I personally believe one function of the military is to protect our borders. theamo, I too think the war on drugs is a joke, but we still need to enforce immigration. We are the only country in the world with borders as open as they are. California now has a majority Hispanic population. Live there and tell me would should open our borders.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 6:52:18 AM EDT
Most other countries use specially trained border guards as the US does. They may be more militarized, but both East and West Germany had Border Police. Even the former Soviet Union had units that were primarily tasked with border security. I'd say the best thing to do is fund the Border Patrol to a level that would allow them to be effective. They're the ones that are trained in searching, tracking, and finding illegals and smugglers. They're the best "troops" for this mission, and they should be the ones given the resources to handle it. The military's job is to fight wars and win them. It's always easy to say "just send in the military", but any time spent on the border is time they aren't training to take down a bunker, assault a beach, seize an airfield, and generally kill people and break things. Yeah, a secure border is a national interest, but the fact is we don't need military force to secure either of our borders. What we need is a Border Patrol that's given the resources to do their job. Anyway you cut it, giving the BP the money will be cheaper than using the military. Just the way the military does things will result in more money lost than it would take the BP to do the job right. Then add the cost of still having to train those folks to do their war mission and you spend even more money. Sure the military has all kinds of gadgets to find people, etc. but the guys in the Border Patrol are just as smart (or smarter) than most GIs. Give them the stuff they need. I think the military on a whole needs to be smaller, and more focused on exactly what it should be doing. Fight wars and win them. Not world policeman, not peacekeeper, not world savior to feed the starving, not a street cop, not a Customs officer, not a Border Patrolman. Ross
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 1:50:23 PM EDT
Check out www.Americanpatrol.com
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 1:54:12 PM EDT
they just need the chopper gunner from full metal jacket. "GET SOME, GET SOME, YAH YAH, GET SOME BABY!!!"
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:25:08 PM EDT
I live about 30 miles from Mexico, we are being over-run with illegal immigrants. I dont particularly care for the Border Patrol, they seem to think they are a bit better than us local folk, but they do work their butt's off. Today while driving past our National Guard Armory it was free food day, i.e. Green eggs and government cheese. There was one guy with a shopping cart!! I saw about 15 vehicles with Mexico license plates there, reminded me of our troops being herded on to military transports for the D-Day invasion. Yeah, we need some police action.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:50:27 PM EDT
Hey Happyshooter 25 post fuckhead: From the official Marine report: "The military's role on the border has been controversial. The Juárez bar association that represents most of the city's lawyers have criticized the Mexican government for using soldiers to patrol civilians. On the U.S. side, Joint Task Force Six, the military anti-drug support agency at Biggs Army Airfield, suspended ground patrols after a Hispanic Marine who was a motorpool mechanic from Camp Pendleton, CA, fatally shot a teen in Redford, Texas, in 1997. The family was awarded $800,000 or more by the U.S. government in a settlement sealed by a Texas Federal Court." The federal governemnt just hands over almost a milion dollars to someone who was armed and threatened the life of an American Serviceman. Kiss my ass you pile of shit. If the guy had been armed and it had been a justafied shooting then the Marines would probably still be patrolling the boarder.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 6:50:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:04:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRY G: Happyshooter, the kids at Kent State were UNARMED American citizens and they weren't 'messing' with the ill trained National Guardsmen. I am one of the people they were protesting against, but I was serving to protect their right to protest. You are way out of line and their is no comparison to what happened or happens on the Mexican border. I personally believe one function of the military is to protect our borders. theamo, I too think the war on drugs is a joke, but we still need to enforce immigration. We are the only country in the world with borders as open as they are. California now has a majority Hispanic population. Live there and tell me would should open our borders.
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What he said. Better yet, assign the local militia to do it, post signs to warn of free fire zones, and no suing in US courts if you are not a US citizen.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:18:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:20:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:22:20 PM EDT
Good thought there, Garand Shooter. That might just work.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 7:39:50 PM EDT
My family moved here from canada in 1977. The job my father ( a Ph.D. metalugical engineering) was offered from Anaconda Brass in Kenosha WI had to be published for one year befor he could bring us to the U.S. in order to make sure no equally qualified U.S. citizen would be cheated from getting his position. Now we have anyone from any shit eating 3rd world country being given asylum because thier shitty country is at war with istself!! My cousin cant get a visa to come to that U.S. beacuse she is white and educated. But now they want to pass legislature to give illegal immigrant drivers liscences!! WTF is going on here!! Patrol the borders, keep out all the "refugees" from these crappy little countries. Lets start taking care of the people who are supposed to be here by keeping the pieces of shit that don't belong here out of our country!! I may seem like I'm ranting but I am a legal resident and have been for 24 years. I am productive member of society. I pay my rediculus taxes (reluctantly). Why should we continue to allow just anyone in our country? [:(!]
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:41:04 PM EDT
I'll hang-out on the border for a couple of weeks during my vacation. CS
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:53:39 PM EDT
Within the last couple of days I assisted in stopping a vehicle whose driver was drunk. He had more gold on him than his neck could hold up, he drove a brand new vehicle and sported a valid license and ID card. During booking, I asked him some quick questions, and being unable to respond, he made something up. He is illegal, and has been here for three years from mexico. I really get tired nowadays of running into those with more money, and benefits than any citizen can get. Well this is one who is going to be sent back, and by the time that he sneaks back across the border, the tow company will have his vehicle. It's time our borders are sealed, but does the government really want our borders protected, or is the open border payback for NAFTA and GATT. The southwest is turning into a third world country in many respects.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 10:10:16 PM EDT
First, I read someplace that those Marine's were fired upon by that kid. Secondly, We spend millions of dollars shipping these people back to Mexico! Hell, for that much we could put scoped M2's every 2000 yards along the boarder and start picking them off as they step over. That would stop that shit in a hurry!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:54:35 AM EDT
Reality...the military should not be used in a civilian capacity...i.e. Border Patrol. Increase funding for the civilian agencies that are responsible for this task (BP, Customs, etc). Yes, the military can provide services (surveillance, equipment, etc) as JTF-6 currently does. But soldiers are not policemen. There is a huge difference. The immature drivle about shooting border crossers is nonsense as well. The same people I hear complaining about using the military as a police force in other countries want to use it here for that purpose. Either way, it is a waste. Fund the proper civilian authorities for this task. It's not in the best interest of the country or the military to make border-patrol officers out of them. It requires training, costing money that would be better spent hiring more BP officers. SARguy
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:07:15 AM EDT
Beef up the Border Patrol, and for that matter, beef up the border itself. Maybe a wall with sensors, a decent trench where possible and guardposts. The libertarian/utopian ideal of open borders, no incentive to use the legal, easily available narcotics, happy multicultural folks working, shopping and playing side-by-side with no social welfare system to act as a safety net/hammock will never happen. Lets concentrate on what's possible, not what seems really cool after toking up a bowl of ganja. I don't agree with the way the B.S. war on drugs is being waged, but to just say that it proves that all drugs should be legal is crap. If you think the socialists in this country are going to sit quietly by while all the FDR/LBJ social giveaways are stripped out of the system, you need to put down the skull bong and get some fresh air. FMCDH Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. -------------------- "Flush out your headgear, new guy. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is poontang." --Animal Mother, "Full Metal Jacket"
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