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Posted: 12/4/2007 1:34:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 1:35:06 PM EDT by hughjafj]
www.newsmax.com/timmerman/iran_nukes/2007/12/04/54359.html

U.S. Intel Possibly Duped by Iran

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 9:38 AM

By: Kenneth R. Timmerman Article Font Size




A highly controversial, 150 page National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran’s nuclear programs was coordinated and written by former State Department political and intelligence analysts — not by more seasoned members of the U.S. intelligence community, Newsmax has learned.


Its most dramatic conclusion — that Iran shut down its nuclear weapons program in 2003 in response to international pressure — is based on a single, unvetted source who provided information to a foreign intelligence service and has not been interviewed directly by the United States.


Newsmax sources in Tehran believe that Washington has fallen for “a deliberate disinformation campaign” cooked up by the Revolutionary Guards, who laundered fake information and fed it to the United States through Revolutionary Guards intelligence officers posing as senior diplomats in Europe.


Dangerous Game


The National Intelligence Council, which produced the NIE, is chaired by Thomas Fingar, “a State Department intelligence analyst with no known overseas experience who briefly headed the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research,” I wrote in my book "Shadow Warriors: The Untold Story of Traitors, Saboteurs, and the Party of Surrender." [Editor's Note: Get "Shadow Warriors" free — go here now.]


Fingar was a key partner of Senate Democrats in their successful effort to derail the confirmation of John Bolton in the spring of 2005 to become the U.S. permanent representative to the United Nations.


As the head of the NIC, Fingar has gone out of his way to fire analysts “who asked the wrong questions,” and who challenged the politically-correct views held by Fingar and his former State Department colleagues, as revealed in "Shadow Warriors."


In March 2007, Fingar fired his top Cuba and Venezuela analyst, Norman Bailey, after he warned of the growing alliance between Castro and Chavez.


Bailey’s departure from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) was applauded by the Cuban government news service Granma, who called Bailey “a patent relic of the Reagan regime.” And Fingar was just one of a coterie of State Department officials brought over to ODNI by the first director, career State Department official John Negroponte.


Collaborating with Fingar on the Iran estimate, released on Monday, were Kenneth Brill, the director of the National Counterproliferation Center, and Vann H. Van Diepen, the National Intelligence officer for Weapons of Mass Destruction and Proliferation.


“Van Diepen was an enormous problem,” a former colleague of his from the State Department told me when I was fact gathering for "Shadow Warriors."


“He was insubordinate, hated WMD sanctions, and strived not to implement them,” even though it was his specific responsibility at State to do so, the former colleague told me.


Kenneth Brill, also a career foreign service officer, had been the U.S. representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna in 2003-2004 before he was forced into retirement.


"Shadow Warrior" reports, “While in Vienna, Brill consistently failed to confront Iran once its clandestine nuclear weapons program was exposed in February 2003, and had to be woken up with the bureaucratic equivalent of a cattle prod to deliver a single speech condemning Iran’s eighteen year history of nuclear cheating.”


Negroponte rehabilitated Brill and brought the man who single-handedly failed to object to Iran’s nuclear weapons program and put him in charge of counter-proliferation efforts for the entire intelligence community.


Christian Westermann, another favorite of Senate Democrats in the Bolton confirmation hearings, was among the career State Department analysts tapped by Fingar and Brill.


As a State Department intelligence analyst, Westermann had missed the signs of biological weapons development in Cuba, and played into the hands of Castro apologist Sen. Christopher Dodd, D, Conn., by continuing to use impeached intelligence reports on Cuba that had been written by self-avowed Cuban spy, Ana Belen Montes.


“After failing to recognize the signs of biological weapons development in Cuba and Cuba’s cooperation with Iran, Westermann was promoted to become national intelligence officer for biological weapons,” I wrote.


“Let’s hope a walk-in defector from Iranian intelligence doesn’t tell us that Iran has given biological weapons to terrorists to attack new York or Chicago,” I added, “because Westermann will certainly object that the source of that information was not reliable — at least, until Americans start dying.”


It now appears that this is very similar to what happened while the intelligence community was preparing the Iran NIE.


The Defector


My former colleague from the Washington Times, Bill Gertz, suggests in today’s print edition of the paper that Revolutionary Guards Gen. Alireza Asgari, who defected while in Turkey in February, was the human source whose information led to the NIE”s conclusion that Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program in 2003.


But intelligence sources in Europe told Newsmax in late September that Asgari’s debriefings on Iran’s nuclear weapons programs were “so dramatic” that they caused French President Nicolas Sarkozy and his foreign minister to speak out publicly about the threat of a nuclear-armed Iran.


Sarkozy stunned his countrymen when he told an annual conference of French ambassadors on Aug. 27, 2007, that Iran faced a stark choice between shutting down its nuclear program, or tougher international sanctions and ultimately, war.


“This approach is the only one that allows us to escape from a catastrophic alternative: an Iranian bomb, or the bombing of Iran,” Sarkozy said.


Three weeks later, Foreign Minister Bernard Koucher warned in a televised interview that the world’s major powers needed to toughen sanctions on Iran to prevent Tehran from getting the bomb and to prevent war. “We must prepare for the worst,” Kouchner said. “The worst, sir, is war.”


Those comments were prompted by reports that were given to the French president about Iran’s nuclear weapons program derived from debriefings of the defector, Gen. Ashgari, a Newsmax intelligence source in Europe said.


Ashgari is the highest-level Iranian official to have defected to the West since the Islamic revolution of 1979. His defection set off a panic in Tehran.


As a senior member of the general staff of the Revolutionary Guards Corps, Asgari had access to highly-classified intelligence information, as well as strategic planning documents, as I reported at the time.


A damage assessment then underway in Tehran was expected to “take months” to complete, so extensive was Asgari’s access to Iran’s nuclear and intelligence secrets.


Asgari had detailed knowledge of Iranian Revolutionary Guards units operating in Iraq and Lebanon because he had trained some of them. He also knew some of the secrets of Iran’s nuclear weapons program, because he had been a top procurement officer and a deputy minister of defense in charge of logistics. But Asgari never had responsibility for nuclear weapons development, and probably did not have access to information about the status of the secret programs being run by the Revolutionary Guards, Iranian sources tell Newsmax.


In an effort to cover up the failure of Iranian counter-intelligence to prevent Asgari’s defection, a Persian language Web site run by the former Revolutioanry Guards Comdr. Gen. Mohsen Rezai claimed in March that Asgari was on a CIA “hit list” of 20 former Revolutionary Guards officers and had been assassinated.



The Senate intelligence committee will be briefed today on the NIE, and the House committee on Wednesday.


But already, the declassified summary has Republicans grumbling on Capitol Hill.


“We want to know why we should believe this,” one congressional Republican told Newsmax. “This is such a departure from the past and there are so many unanswered questions.”


While the intelligence community is supposed to report just the facts and its assessment of those facts and their reliability to policy-makers, this NIE clear advocates policy positions.


“Our assessment that the program probably was halted primarily in response to international pressure suggests Iran may be more vulnerable to influence on the issue that we judged previously,” the NIC wrote in the declassified “Key Judgments” of the NIE.


The NIE opined that the new assessment leads to the policy conclusion that the United States should offer “some combination of threats of intensified international scrutiny and pressures, along with opportunites,” in order to lock in Iranian good behavior.


This carrot and stick approach has been the State Department’s preferred policy for the past 27 years, and has only strengthened the resolve of Iran’s leaders to continue defying the United States. “Those [countries that] assume that decaying methods such as psychological war, political propaganda and the so-called economic sanctions would work and prevent Iran's fast drive toward progress are mistaken," Ahmadinejad said in Tehran in September at a military parade.


By “progress” Ahmadinejad was referring to Iran’s recently-declared success at enriching uranium.


Democrats on the House and Senate intelligence committees “have been running around with big smiles on their faces,” a Republican source tells Newsmax.


Republicans on the committees intend to ask for more information on the sourcing of this latest NIE during closed door briefings today and tomorrow.

© 2007 Newsmax. All rights reserved.



Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:43:41 PM EDT
They fucking Rick Rolled us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:45:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By john575:
They fucking Rick Rolled us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Looks like it.

And of course, the MSM jumoed all over it in their continuing efforts to fuck with Jorge...
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:48:54 PM EDT
The thing is, okay, so they were working on how to make a bomb for a while, then they stopped that and started working on making the materials for a bomb. And that makes them not dangerous now?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:49:11 PM EDT
I thought that something fishy was going on.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:50:19 PM EDT
Maybe they're the ones being duped then. Misinformation.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:50:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Takadai:
The thing is, okay, so they were working on how to make a bomb for a while, then they stopped that and started working on making the materials for a bomb. And that makes them not dangerous now?


sounds like iraq
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:51:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 1:52:02 PM EDT by NME]
Nonsense, guys.

Iran is our bestest friend evar.

We've got nothing at all to worry about, the leftist media has assured us of this.



Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:52:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:55:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HomShaBom:
Maybe they're the ones being duped then. Misinformation.


but such a move would be disastrous by us. I think we pretty much ruined any chance of stopping Iran now. And they know it. If they didn't have a weapons program up and running they probably do now.

I guess we will just have to let Israel do it when the time comes.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:55:53 PM EDT
I'm putting my tinfoil hat on.

Is the whole fucking world against us? Is half our country against us also? Sometimes I fucking wonder.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 1:56:16 PM EDT
CIA's been duped before...
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:00:27 PM EDT
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?

Seems like people aren't really reading the NIE, in my estimation.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:01:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?

Seems like people aren't really reading the NIE, in my estimation.


Would that be the DIE?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:04:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By john575:
They fucking Rick Rolled us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could see GWB open an email click on the link and say "son of a bitch a rick roll".
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:07:14 PM EDT
There's something going on behind the scenes, and it's great to see the MSM getting played as part of it-the same intelligence community that was "politically motivated" to cook the data for the invasion of Iraq is all of a sudden completely independent to make their own assessments? We even have Israeli intel giving a slightly different assessment so we can play good cop, bad cop.

My opinion is that it's a ploy to let Iran close down their weapon program while saving face.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:38:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crurifragium:


My opinion is that it's a ploy to let Iran close down their weapon program while saving face.

Could be. Perhaps a deal was reached?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:44:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
CIA's been duped before...



Yep... the scary thing is we do not have good enough intelligence services to know.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:47:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
you guys hear that loud pop?

that was 5subs head exploding

Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:47:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?

Seems like people aren't really reading the NIE, in my estimation.


They are taking from it what they want to take... cherry picking. Or in other words they are doing exactly what they accuse the Bush Administration of doing.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 2:54:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 3:00:11 PM EDT by osinious]

Originally Posted By john575:
They fucking Rick Rolled us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHA

Duped by Iran?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:11:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:21:08 PM EDT
We ought to junk the CIA and start over. We have no intelligence capability to speak of.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:23:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.


There is some thought out there that Iran has overstated their actual reserves.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:27:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By macman37:
CIA's been duped before...



Yep... the scary thing is we do not have good enough intelligence services to know.


There are people with pretty good information out there and I'm sure the .gov is talking to them. Iran, believe it or not, is a far more open society and government and military than Iraq was under Saddam.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:28:42 PM EDT
Can we get a more reliably news source than newsmax to corroborate this story?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:37:31 PM EDT
I'd like to ask the libs one thing:

How exactly was Iran to "wipe Israel off the face of the map" with out a nuke?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:22:42 PM EDT
Newsmax??????????? Sorry. I don't believe anything I read on that site.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:55:57 PM EDT
hughjafj?


I think he's one of them foreigner trolls.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:20:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 6:21:45 PM EDT by Skibane]

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.


There is some thought out there that Iran has overstated their actual reserves.


Even if they exaggerated by a factor of 5, that still leaves them with more reserves than the United States has - and we're number seven in the entire world! Given the size of their population and their standard of living, it's damned hard to believe that they'll run out of petro-energy...ever.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:33:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.


There is some thought out there that Iran has overstated their actual reserves.


Even if they exaggerated by a factor of 5, that still leaves them with more reserves than the United States has - and we're number seven in the entire world! Given the size of their population and their standard of living, it's damned hard to believe that they'll run out of petro-energy...ever.

The former head of Iran's National Oil company believes they are overstated.

"As for Iran, the usually accepted official 132 billion barrels is almost 100 billion barrels over any realistic assay."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Samsam_Bakhtiari

That's pretty significant. And then you have to deal with Iran's command economy.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/08/opinion/edstern.php

So even if their reserves are what they say they are, they may "need" nuclear power just to keep their people happy.

But it does make you wonder why they always seem to oppose production increases:
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0&fp=47565bf6f5268457&ei=yBtWR6b2FI2uygSNxOS5BA&url=http%3A//online.wsj.com/article/SB119678143526613166.html%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj&cid=1124441302
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:36:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
hughjafj?


I think he's one of them foreigner trolls.


You'd be wrong.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:37:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
you guys hear that loud pop?

that was 5subs head exploding



Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:49:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
CIA's been duped before...


+1

Yeah, the CIA was so on top of 9/11. I mean, they saw it coming a mile away.

Iran is working on getting a nuke. They told us so.

This is like a German Jew reading Mein Kampf and then being shocked when they're forced into the gas chamber a few years later.

Iran is telling us what they're doing and somehow people refuse to believe it.

I'm not saying we should be carpet bombing them with nukes at 6:00AM tomorrow morning, but we need to keep a close eye on them.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:55:18 PM EDT
Soooo...whats the truth?

Doesn't the truth lie somewhere in the middle?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:56:37 PM EDT
The Jews don't seem convinced. And for guys who gave up building a bomb 4 years ago, they sure seem to relish taking a "You can't stop us" approach to rhetoric and telling Israel they're going to annihilate them.

This report is probably the product of the CIA and State Department bureaucrats who were responsible for the Iraq WMD NIE having extreme guilt over their previous work giving Bush a case to get rid of Saddam. I am sure there has been no end to the grief they've been getting from their liberal buddies for their part in justifying the war, just like how the press has gotten grief privately for not doing enough to stop Bush in 2 elections and to stop the war.

I find it impossible to believe the Iranians stopped their project, it makes no sense. They know the USA will never attack after Iraq, and once they actually get a bomb they will have a deterrent. It makes zero strategic sense for them to have stopped, and the suggestion they did because of "international pressure" is ridiculous.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 6:57:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
CIA's been duped before...


If you're referring to the supposedly non-existant WMD in Iraq, don't buy the MSM's bullshit. There have been nearly 500 chemical and nerve agent munitions found since OIF-I.

Did we find the proverbial "Motherload", the Wal-Mart sized warehouse full of 'em? No. But there have indeed been some found.

But we wouldn't want facts to get in the way, would we?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:00:11 PM EDT
the fucking Iranians rick rolled us right into Iraq

I wouldn't put anything past them
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:00:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 7:03:33 PM EDT by gdblair]
Iran has no refining capacity , they have to import most of their gas!!!What I mean is, they are fucking stupid.Their infrastructure is in the same state of decay as Iraq and N. Korea.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:01:59 PM EDT
Damn Lumpy

Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:05:00 PM EDT
Letting those POS from the State Dept. author a study is like having Neville Chamberlain write an essay on Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". What kind of critique do you think you're going to get?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:06:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.


There is some thought out there that Iran has overstated their actual reserves.


Even if they exaggerated by a factor of 5, that still leaves them with more reserves than the United States has - and we're number seven in the entire world! Given the size of their population and their standard of living, it's damned hard to believe that they'll run out of petro-energy...ever.

The former head of Iran's National Oil company believes they are overstated.

"As for Iran, the usually accepted official 132 billion barrels is almost 100 billion barrels over any realistic assay."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Samsam_Bakhtiari

That's pretty significant. And then you have to deal with Iran's command economy.


Again, even 32 billion is STILL 11 billion more than America's entire reserves.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:12:26 PM EDT
They sell their oil , they have no refining capacity.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:16:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Can we get a more reliably news source than newsmax to corroborate this story?


I hear what you are saying but I think, in substance, its correct. This NIE reeks to high heaven, and many of the contributors are career gov't employees who came aboard during the Clinton Administration. The old-timers who were not of questionable allegiance left in droves in the 90's. Reid is a world-class POS and wanted this thing made public because it coincides with his world-view, and unfortunately most of the US will take it as gospel. It wouldn't surprise me if some of Reid's money has Iranian fingerprints on it. Any time the State Department gets involved in something, it will inevitably come up with the wrong conclusion. Information is acquired from a variety of sources and gets filtered, so that the final product is often incorrect - it is filtered through the filter of political correctness and leftist politics. If you were to talk to people much closer to the ground, so to speak, I have absolutely no doubt you would hear a different story.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:16:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.


There is some thought out there that Iran has overstated their actual reserves.


Even if they exaggerated by a factor of 5, that still leaves them with more reserves than the United States has - and we're number seven in the entire world! Given the size of their population and their standard of living, it's damned hard to believe that they'll run out of petro-energy...ever.

The former head of Iran's National Oil company believes they are overstated.

"As for Iran, the usually accepted official 132 billion barrels is almost 100 billion barrels over any realistic assay."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Samsam_Bakhtiari

That's pretty significant. And then you have to deal with Iran's command economy.


Again, even 32 billion is STILL 11 billion more than America's entire reserves.

My guess is you didn't read the links. Like I said, it's not just how much you have, it's what you do with it.

Not to mention the US isn't exactly a net exporter. And Iranian energy needs are growing. Not to mention the rising energy needs of India and China.

Combine an increasing demand with a command economy and you have a recipe for disaster.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:20:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By macman37:
CIA's been duped before...


+1

Yeah, the CIA was so on top of 9/11. I mean, they saw it coming a mile away.

Iran is working on getting a nuke. They told us so.

This is like a German Jew reading Mein Kampf and then being shocked when they're forced into the gas chamber a few years later.

Iran is telling us what they're doing and somehow people refuse to believe it.

I'm not saying we should be carpet bombing them with nukes at 6:00AM tomorrow morning, but we need to keep a close eye on them.


You forget that numerous people in the Agency and the DIA knew the truth before 9/11. Able Danger knew the truth. Gary Shroen knew the truth. But it had to go through Clinton-era functionaries who decided what to write and what to leave out. Clinton is biting us in the ass, yet again, in my opinion.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 7:27:54 PM EDT by gdblair]
The cia never got cleaned out.The clinton hold overs and the un are doing their work.Whilst Iran continues their's.Bush always seems to have his hands tied , FUCK THE NEW TONE!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:26:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gdblair:
The cia never got cleaned out.The clinton hold overs and the un are doing their work.Whilst Iran continues their's.


It is harder than you would believe to get rid of those moon-bats. They are worse than teh herpes.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:10:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By dport:
My understanding of the NIE was that Iran stopped working on the design in 2003. They are still continuing to enrich uranium. The NIE still says Iran poses a threat, just that their program has stopped. Why would it stop? To wait for the uranium perhaps?


IMO, the prospect of Iran doing ANY nuclear work just plain stinks to high heaven. According to the CIA Factbook, they have the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil (133 gigabarrels). They don't need nuclear technology for any conceivable peaceful purpose, and yet they're pouring massive amounts of money into developing and defending it.


There is some thought out there that Iran has overstated their actual reserves.


Even if they exaggerated by a factor of 5, that still leaves them with more reserves than the United States has - and we're number seven in the entire world! Given the size of their population and their standard of living, it's damned hard to believe that they'll run out of petro-energy...ever.

The former head of Iran's National Oil company believes they are overstated.

"As for Iran, the usually accepted official 132 billion barrels is almost 100 billion barrels over any realistic assay."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Samsam_Bakhtiari

That's pretty significant. And then you have to deal with Iran's command economy.


Again, even 32 billion is STILL 11 billion more than America's entire reserves.

My guess is you didn't read the links.


Well, you guessed wrong... There just isn't anything in your links that is convincing. An uncontexted quote and an opinion piece by a glorified college prof simply don't cut it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:16:10 PM EDT
"Our intelligence is reliable! We swear!"

Later:

"Oh, it was THE OTHER COUNTRY that wasn't reliable! It's all their fault!"


Geez, where have we heard that one before?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:16:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tango7:

Originally Posted By john575:
They fucking Rick Rolled us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Looks like it.

And of course, the MSM jumoed all over it in their continuing efforts to fuck with Jorge...


The MSM will do anything to fuck America over.
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