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Posted: 10/9/2007 7:33:22 PM EDT
I while back I started getting multiple page census forms to be filled out.
I consider them very intrusive into my private life, they want ALL info on every member of my household. How much we make , when we leave for work, soc sec # etc, with the assurance of privacy. I round filed all three sets of paperwork. Today a female census field rep shows up at my house and tells my wife I will be fined $500 if I do not comply. I feel this is an invasion of my privacy...If they want to know how many and age, well ok, but this is B.S.
I do not like this at all.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 7:35:13 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]
Is this the American Community Survey? they're bluffing, just ignore 'em.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:35:15 PM EDT
I thought they only did the Census once every 10 years?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 7:36:23 PM EDT
Do what I do. Once every 1 or 2 years don't get your mail for a month. The mail will be sent back 'Vacant'. The people who really need to contact you will send it out again, the bullshitters will take you off their list.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:00:01 PM EDT
She left a page with Title 13 and chapter 7 Offenses and penalties.
And it says for further info go towww.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:00:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:14:41 PM EDT by AlvinYorkII]

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
I while back I started getting multiple page census forms to be filled out.
I consider them very intrusive into my private life, they want ALL info on every member of my household. How much we make , when we leave for work, soc sec # etc, with the assurance of privacy. I round filed all three sets of paperwork. Today a female census field rep shows up at my house and tells my wife I will be fined $500 if I do not comply. I feel this is an invasion of my privacy...If they want to know how many and age, well ok, but this is B.S.
I do not like this at all.



Had one come to my house too during the last census, I'd deliberatly thrown the form out instead of answering it, Got involved with the female census taker in a discussion as to the point that I didn't want to give her the names of my children. I stated that then they could be easily traced just as they had with the Japanesse interned during WWII. She threatened me also but walked away in disgust when I told her to take her best shot.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:01:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:03:26 PM EDT by Avalon01]

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
Is this the American Community Survey? they're bluffing, just ignore 'em.


+1

Fuck 'em, the Constitution only calls for a census every ten years, this is just more pork bullshit.

I can't fathom how they could possibly fine you - any lawyers in this thread know the deal?


Section 221 of Title 13, Chapter 7, United States Code

The ACS is part of the Decennial Census Program - thus you HAVE to answer the questions, much like you have to answer the regular Census questions.




TITLE 13--CENSUS
CHAPTER 7--OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
SUBCHAPTER II--OTHER PERSONS

Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully
neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized
officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency
thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized
officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions
on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey
provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title,
applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related,
or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall
be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of
this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in
such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be
fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious
beliefs or to membership in a religious body.



Av.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:04:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
She left a page with Title 13 and chapter 7 Offenses and penalties.
And it says for further info go towww.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/
According to that, refusal to answer is "not more than $100" but willingly providing false information is "not more than $500."

Note to self: Keep a $100 bill in an envelope by the front door. "Here's your $100. Fuck off."
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:09:08 PM EDT
I'll pay the fine before i'll give my SSN on anything other than my tax return.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:14:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:16:02 PM EDT by Nlinc]
Title 13, Chapter 5, Sub chapter II, Section 141 seems to indicate this is not a census year, nor is it the proper census month.

ETA: I find it odd that they link to Cornell.edu instead of GPOaccess.gov
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:15:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avalon01:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
Is this the American Community Survey? they're bluffing, just ignore 'em.


+1

Fuck 'em, the Constitution only calls for a census every ten years, this is just more pork bullshit.

I can't fathom how they could possibly fine you - any lawyers in this thread know the deal?


Section 221 of Title 13, Chapter 7, United States Code

The ACS is part of the Decennial Census Program - thus you HAVE to answer the questions, much like you have to answer the regular Census questions.




TITLE 13--CENSUS
CHAPTER 7--OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
SUBCHAPTER II--OTHER PERSONS

Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully
neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized
officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency
thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized
officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions
on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey
provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title,
applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related,
or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall
be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of
this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in
such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be
fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious
beliefs or to membership in a religious body.



Av.


Just read through the code - do you know what part of it they claim justifies those questions? The only stuff I saw was about population.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:17:04 PM EDT
I filled one out in 2005.

I regret it.

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:19:03 PM EDT
Challenge her to a duel next time.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I'll pay the fine before i'll give my SSN on anything other than my tax return.

+1
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:39:12 PM EDT by paddle3]
I've appropriately filed a few of these very intrusive questionnaires into the appropriate receptacles, too.

So, after all these months since the damned forms first arrived they're now sending out people to knock on doors and threaten folks into compliance?

Hm - guess next time I see an unfamiliar car pull into the drive and someone headed towards my door - I'll greet them naked.

Just for grins and giggles, ya' know?

ETA: It has worked before.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:21:16 PM EDT
Fuck'em tell them how many people you have in the house and tell them to pound sand.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:25:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avalon01:


(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious
beliefs or to membership in a religious body.



Av.


My entire life is my religion.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:29:08 PM EDT
Considering that it probably costs them MORE than $100 to actually collect the penalty fine, I doubt they'd even bother trying to collect.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:31:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Fuck'em tell them how many people you have in the house and tell them to pound sand.


Some gov't agent comes by and starts asking questions and threatening me with a fine if I don't disclose personal info?


Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:35:20 PM EDT
There are 2 people in my house. I invoke the fifth amendment and stand mute rather than incriminate myself by answering certain questions. I will not answer questions that don't incriminate me as they will show what areas incriminate me. Thank you, have a nice day.


No way in hell you're getting a fine after than.

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:35:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
Is this the American Community Survey? they're bluffing, just ignore 'em.


+1

Fuck 'em, the Constitution only calls for a census every ten years, this is just more pork bullshit.

I can't fathom how they could possibly fine you - any lawyers in this thread know the deal?


Section 221 of Title 13, Chapter 7, United States Code

The ACS is part of the Decennial Census Program - thus you HAVE to answer the questions, much like you have to answer the regular Census questions.




TITLE 13--CENSUS
CHAPTER 7--OFFENSES AND PENALTIES
SUBCHAPTER II--OTHER PERSONS

Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully
neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized
officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency
thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized
officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions
on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey
provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title,
applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related,
or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall
be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of
this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in
such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be
fined not more than $500.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious
beliefs or to membership in a religious body.



Av.


Just read through the code - do you know what part of it they claim justifies those questions? The only stuff I saw was about population.

"(g) As used in this section, “census of population” means a census of population, housing, and matters relating to population and housing."

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:37:58 PM EDT
Tell them to fuck off, they kept harassing my grandparents to the point where they threatened to take there house fucking pieces of shit.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:38:46 PM EDT
Unconstitutional.Congressional approval does not override the Constitution, does it?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:40:43 PM EDT

One question - do you have to sign the Census form?

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:40:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 8:42:25 PM EDT by Bohr_Adam]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

...

Just read through the code - do you know what part of it they claim justifies those questions? The only stuff I saw was about population.

"(g) As used in this section, “census of population” means a census of population, housing, and matters relating to population and housing."




Ah, you saved me going back to copy and paste.

Yeah - that's all I saw (housing, I suppose I should have remembered) - it seems a stretch, though to get, "How much we make , when we leave for work," from that, no? Seems to go well beyond the intent of the law - which itself is arguably a bullshit law to keep census workers employed in off years.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:42:18 PM EDT
I actually worked temporarily for the last census. I got all of the fun addresses in rural North Idaho. I actually had to pull a pistol on one moron...

I don't know about now, but back then when a person was identified as being a threat to census workers, the Census Bureau had their own LEO-type teams that would go in. Not sure if they just ensured the census taker's safety, or if they actually tried to use force to get the census taken...

Big Brother does not take NO for an answer.

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:42:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Yeah - that's all I saw (housing, I suppose I should have remembered) - it seems a stretch, though to get, "How much we make , when we leave for work," from that, no? Seems to go well beyond the intent of the law - which itself is arguably a bullshit law to keep census workers employed in off years.

The FedGov?

Going beyond the original intent!?

That's unheard of!

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 8:45:58 PM EDT
Do Census people come to your door? I don't recall this.

Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:07:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By Avalon01:


(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious
beliefs or to membership in a religious body.



Av.


My entire life is my religion.


How about, "I refuse to answer these questions on the grounds that they disclose information relative to my religious beliefs". When they ask how <insert any question here> pertains to your religion... "I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it discloses information relative to my religious beliefs".

See how that works?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:07:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:
There are 2 people in my house. I invoke the fifth amendment and stand mute rather than incriminate myself by answering certain questions. I will not answer questions that don't incriminate me as they will show what areas incriminate me. Thank you, have a nice day.


I like it!
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:23:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green70:
I actually worked temporarily for the last census. I got all of the fun addresses in rural North Idaho. I actually had to pull a pistol on one moron...

I don't know about now, but back then when a person was identified as being a threat to census workers, the Census Bureau had their own LEO-type teams that would go in. Not sure if they just ensured the census taker's safety, or if they actually tried to use force to get the census taken...

Big Brother does not take NO for an answer.



why was he a moron ? maybe your the moron
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:24:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jnojr:

Originally Posted By Tannim:
There are 2 people in my house. I invoke the fifth amendment and stand mute rather than incriminate myself by answering certain questions. I will not answer questions that don't incriminate me as they will show what areas incriminate me. Thank you, have a nice day.


I like it!


+10
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:25:36 PM EDT
Are census takers considered Federal Agents?

If so, don't lie. Simply refuse to answer.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:25:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jnojr:

Originally Posted By Tannim:
There are 2 people in my house. I invoke the fifth amendment and stand mute rather than incriminate myself by answering certain questions. I will not answer questions that don't incriminate me as they will show what areas incriminate me. Thank you, have a nice day.


I like it!


Ya like it? I actually have an ACS survey and I'm waiting for my first Census taker. The above is my answer.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 9:29:32 PM EDT by Tannim]

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Are census takers considered Federal Agents?

If so, don't lie. Simply refuse to answer.


Lying is WORSE an not answering. $500 a lie! 24 questions - $12,000!

Max penalty for not answering under Title 18 is $5000.


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART II--CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

CHAPTER 227--SENTENCES

SUBCHAPTER C--FINES

Sec. 3571. Sentence of fine

(a) In General.--A defendant who has been found guilty of an offense
may be sentenced to pay a fine.
(b) Fines for Individuals.--Except as provided in subsection (e) of
this section, an individual who has been found guilty of an offense may
be fined not more than the greatest of--
(1) the amount specified in the law setting forth the offense;
(2) the applicable amount under subsection (d) of this section;
(3) for a felony, not more than $250,000;
(4) for a misdemeanor resulting in death, not more than
$250,000;
(5) for a Class A misdemeanor that does not result in death, not
more than $100,000;
(6) for a Class B or C misdemeanor that does not result in
death, not more than $5,000; or
(7) for an infraction, not more than $5,000


frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+18USC3571
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:29:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green70:
Big Brother does not take NO for an answer.


sometimes, he does

i was asked to take the American community survey a year ago. Threatened, told i was breaking the law when i refused to respond. After a few months they finally gave up and stopped bugging me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:30:18 PM EDT
Why would a .gov agency link to a university for the explanation?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:31:43 PM EDT
A GOOD READ

Contained therein: The census doesn't prosecute. They have to turn over to the Justice Dept to prosecute. The same protocols that prevent them from releasing personal information prevent them from telling the DoJ who didn't answer.

Anyone know if that's true or if this person was smoking crack?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:33:52 PM EDT
I was thinking more along the lines of being charged with a Federal felony charge, akin to the type used to get Martha Stewart. She was convicted of lying to Federal Agents in the course of their investigation on her.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:34:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 9:42:25 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]
I would take that peice of paper, rip it in half in front of that bitch, stick it down my pants and wipe my balls with it, and only then offer to give it to her.


Fuck that.


eta: Actually, I would be proffesional / tactful and friendly during the first explanation of how I was not going to provide them with any information.

After that, I would go into fuck you very much mode.


I am required to provide government employees with my name. If I am driving or carrying I will provide the appropriate licences and/or registration & insurance. And I do that only as a courtesy really. That is IT. Stay the FUCK out of my business. Purely out of principle. But what the fuck is more important then principle?

....you know, I'd be glad to participate in shit like this, if .gov wasn't trying to fucking bully and intimidate people. There are a lot of things I'd be happy to do voluntarily. Start threatening people though and lines in the sand will be drawn.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:41:42 PM EDT
She was at my house today while I was at work. Told the wife people are being fined for non compliance. Wife said she had her laptop out, on, ready to start. Wife said no,Lady left her card, wrote her home # on it, said she would be up late, wants me to call.I did not call.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:42:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Soylent:
Why would a .gov agency link to a university for the explanation?


None does?

If you are referring to the Cornell links, it is just that Cornell hosts a very reputable, easy to use, and almost always up-to-date copy of the US Codes. It is a great reference.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:44:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
She was at my house today while I was at work. Told the wife people are being fined for non compliance. Wife said she had her laptop out, on, ready to start. Wife said no,Lady left her card, wrote her home # on it, said she would be up late, wants me to call.I did not call.



Good man. Fuck this bs dude.


If I were home i'd answer the door just so I could pretend to slam it in their face once I saw who it was.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:50:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 9:51:33 PM EDT by Nlinc]

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By Soylent:
Why would a .gov agency link to a university for the explanation?


None does?

If you are referring to the Cornell links, it is just that Cornell hosts a very reputable, easy to use, and almost always up-to-date copy of the US Codes. It is a great reference.

So does the government, so if you're a .gov agency why use the Cornell link when there is one by the government?
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:52:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2007 9:55:05 PM EDT by AROptics]
I hope some Nigerian scammer/identity theft ring picks up on this "survey" shit. That would throw a monkey wrench in the gears.

Also, how about tracking down the 38 million illegals, cocksuckers.

"A censuus taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti."
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:52:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:
A GOOD READ

Contained therein: The census doesn't prosecute. They have to turn over to the Justice Dept to prosecute. The same protocols that prevent them from releasing personal information prevent them from telling the DoJ who didn't answer.

Anyone know if that's true or if this person was smoking crack?

According to this source, NO ONE has ever been fined for not answering the Census.



Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:52:26 PM EDT
This is why i never answer the door ...
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 9:59:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 10:00:05 PM EDT
I hate stupid people coming to my door.

We dont have to live with it, because the government already has all of our information
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 10:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By Soylent:
Why would a .gov agency link to a university for the explanation?


None does?

If you are referring to the Cornell links, it is just that Cornell hosts a very reputable, easy to use, and almost always up-to-date copy of the US Codes. It is a great reference.


Yeah that's what I was looking at. It just struck me as odd (not tin-foil hat odd, perhaps a fraudulent ID theft phishing expedition odd) that it wouldn't link to an official agency site.
Link Posted: 10/9/2007 10:02:15 PM EDT
From § 141. Population and other census information, the only census' (sp?) that can be forced are the decade and half-decade. Anything the secretary wishes can be asked, but there arent any provisions for other random census.
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