The Army doesn't guard much anymore.  That's a job for LN or contract guys.  Anyone wanting to hit aircraft at Al Udeid or even one of the mega FOBs is going to come heavy so the concept of security forces with more capability than M16A2s doesn't offend me.

But I bet HER rifle was a simple M16 without optics VS the security guy sitting 3miles inside the wire in the Air-conditioned Hut with the tac'd out M4...  And a vest full of 203 rounds. LOL

There are AF guys carrying 203 rounds in CONUS assignments right now.  LOL.

Why would people defending multi-million dollar aircraft need good weapons?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_raid_on_Camp_Bastion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_Air_National_Guard#1981_EPB_attack

That sounds like something a real dick would do.

One lesson I had to learn the hard way was with after-market pistol grips in Arctic conditions.

I had an early Magpul MIAD with the conical grip screw head.

I was doing high volume, suppressed CQM in -37 C over a 3-day period with Scandinavians, well north of 60° N latitude in the dead of winter.

I looked down, and my grip had come loose.

Took it to the barracks to my deployment case, where I had a spare, and noticed that the little grip core tabs and front strap retainer tab had snapped off, and the pistol grip itself had cracked from the torque and mechanical advantage of the conical screw.

When I pulled the broken MIAD, the selector detent had corrosion happening on it before my eyes, like a little fizzle party.  This was on a Rock River complete gun.  I learned that the TDP calls for cadmium plated detents, whereas Rock River used zinc-plated detents, which invite corrosion to happen on them.

In several of the units I was in when on active duty, we replaced the pistol grips with Ergos and CoC didn't care, don't recall any issues.

But Arctic environment gave me a new appreciation for the Colt grip and the TDP, and made it clear that all the hype in different articles or manufacturer claims about being better than Mil-Spec was often complete BS, as none of their rifles would ever pass the Mil-Spec, Mil-Std process, not even on their tiniest parts.

I was talking about this with a buddy of mine who was a senior NCO in Group.  He said they had similar issues with an after-market grip that didn't seal well to the lower, and allowed moisture to get inside the selector detent spring channel and cause problems with the spring.

Not relevant, but at least one, pre-F-35 production.  Any specific access to 5th Gen assets at that time was compartmentalized.

So AESA radar ground-mapping and EOTS don't work for CAS?

That's like saying APG-70 and Litening don't work for CAS now, both of which have lesser capability compared to APG-81 and AAQ-40, let alone MADL.

I realize CAS isn't a particular platform, and most aircraft that carry ordnance are capable, but F-35 brings measurable performance increases even when you mistreat it as a 4th Gen.

I've also come across across little things like this. "MIL-SPEC" FCG-less LPK's who's detents heads would grind away into dust, brittle roll pins, "MIL-SPEC" forged upper receivers who's rear most 1913 rail had a ton of slop when mounting a Matech and you actually had to hold the Matech straight when torquing down its cap head screw. Buffers with bumpers made from cheap hard/brittle plastic, springs out of spec length, improperly made bolts etc.

Its those little things like that that make me happy to go with Colt parts. Shit you don't have to worry about with actual MIL-SPEC TDP parts, and do have to worry about with "MIL-SPEC" and "MIL-SPEC +" claimed parts. Also the quality difference of a Colt A2 grip and a generic LPK A2 grip is astronomical when you actually pay attention. Not only in polymer used but ergonomically as well. Same goes for waffle stocks yada yada the list goes on

@GS5414

The fact that you have a chick making weapons decisions is all I need to know......

@GS5414

Was the FN16 Tac II (FN's Hodge AU-MOD 2) ever considered? Did you test the Hodge/Mega (Zev) Wedge Lock Rail system, if so, how does it compare to Geissele's MK 16? Thank you

Violent and fast cycling, parts quality, etc. I can't go into much more detail.

S/F

The fact that the good BG listened to her advisers is admirable. It didn't take them ten tries and fifteen years to the IMR Blue validated and blessed. That's more than I can say for the Army and Marine Corps.

S/F

The Tac II isn't within the Pro line, but yes, the actual Hodge guns OEM from FN (modified M4A1 contract) were considered as well as URG-Is.

As it pertains to current or upcoming source selection, I won't comment. All I'll say is that with the URG-I or Hodge upper, I'd be totally happy deploying with either. One requires rebuild of existing guns, one doesn't, both perform similarly well, and do have particular strengths.

I've messed with the Wedgelock rails (not formal controlled testing) against the Mk16s, yes. They are nearly as rigid from what I've seen. I do prefer the handguard to be a tad wider but with Magpul or TD rail panels it feels great. The M-LOK can be a pain in the butt to put say a KDG rail panel in at first, but once in they stay snug. I do prefer the Mk16 to be honest (particularly the refined HK attachment method, which I prefer to all other methods at the time of this writing), and consider it a best-in-class product. M-LOK on all quadrants is amazing to have. It's a damn shame they don't sell them separately. One thing Hodge Defense did get right early on was rail lengths. I do like how he understood that shooters need as much barrel covered up as possible, and lengthened the rails to barrel minus 1" (roughly) length, with just enough space for SF suppressor mounting. G and other companies have been slow to adapt, while others have caught up.

Personally, I won't go buy a Wedgelock if I'm building my own 14.5" gun but will gladly use it if it's pre-installed. If building, I'll vie towards Mk16 rails for 14.5" guns at this time, bought separately from shops parting out URG-I commercial uppers. 12.5" uppers I'll use Hodge due to rail length. 10" I'll stick to Hodge until G releases the 9.3" Mk16.

Hope this helps! Many options to be had these days. I'm even experimenting with some other stuff to see what benefits can be had.

S/F

Damn. Well I hope SIG gets onto it quickly because it looks like a damn good rifle.

Is the FN/Hodge available to the public? And which rifles are in the FN Pro line? I tried googling but couldn't find anything.

Thank you for the thorough response!

A couple follow up questions:
1. By HK attachment point do you mean their reverse key-mod?
2. Has 12.5" barrels been tested, and is it a viable alternative to the 14.5"?

Thank you!

I believe the FN one is FN16 Tac II Pro: As Seen on SSD

You can find Hodge stuff on WeaponOutfitters, Operational Detachment Source, and OPTactical. Also check with Dury's in San Antonio.

Thanks, thats the article that got me interested in the FN/Hodge collaboration rifles.

I'm not really interested in the pure Hodge AU 2 (the fancy materials don't really interest me.) But a FN factory gun/upper with a CHF Hodge profile barrel and MLOK handguard would be great.

By HK attachment I'm referring to the method of connecting the rail to the upper receiver, and securing with one or more bolts running perpendicular to the line of bore, and interfacing with the barrel nut. Notice multiple manufacturers going to similar systems (non indexing barrel nuts, rails with carefully bored IDs, etc.). I see this as a good thing, as there's not much functional stuff that can be patented these days. Competition is good. At this time I still consider G rail attachment to be at the top of the heap.

As far as 12.5" barrels go, to my knowledge they have not been formally tested, but have been evaluated on a limited basis. A 12.5" gun, appropriately gassed, with a carbine length gas system is a seriously viable option over a similar 14.5".

Those who have used a good 12.5" gun get it. It's truly small enough to do CQB with, carry inside of a vehicle, etc., yet retains enough velocity (large velocity gains) to play well at 500M. Yes, you can engage further, but I'm talking about reasonable probability of first round hit, and effective velocity. Modern bullets that are not as velocity dependent for fragmentation or expansion really allow the 12.5" system to be viable. Also, carrier speeds are far more tame than a 10.3" system, with plenty of dwell time that nearly matches a similar 14.5" mid length system. Hodge 12.5s are nice and tame to shoot. I'd replace the rail with a G equivalent if they had an 11.75" variant, but they don't.

One of my favorite setups is a 12.5" Hodge with a Surefire SOCOM Mini 2, a MAWL-DA, and a Nightforce 1-8 ATACR. There isn't a whole lot that system cannot do.

In summary, if you allow me to have two uppers for various missions, I'll take an 11.5" and 14.5" URG. Force me to have one? It'll be a good 12.5" URG, and I'll sneak in a 16" Recce upper behind the scenes.

Hope this helps!

S/F

S/F

Most of the time after checking the same groups a few times, the unwritten SOP(That would get you in trouble if caught), is just to do a quick facial scan, see how many folks you know, ask the highest ranking if anything funky is going on and if he vouches for the convoy. Yes and yes, get a signature if needed(generally a flight line only thing) and wave them through.

It's in direct contravention of pretty much every SOP, standing order and post instruction ever. We're a generally lazy lot, but if you help us meet the bare minimum requirements so we don't get in trouble, we generally try to leave everyone alone.

That said, I never had any issue dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's, if the Army or Marines wanted to be dicks about the whole thing. It usually only took one pissing contest of trying to pull rank/authority to straighten out their attitude issues.

Then y'all would leave me the fuck alone in peace, so I could enjoy my Rip-its and Doritos and listen to some music. Not too much to ask.

It is. And it's really damn easy to fix too.

The most glorious schadenfreude and I took a special perverse pleasure of returning the favor.

Got it, thanks you for the clarification. I know Geissele's HK rails also has one small piece of metal at the end of the rail section that fits into a slot on the top of the upper receiver.  Haven't seen it in other Non-HK designs.


Any chance you are looking at materials that will lighten up the platform? With all the cool stuffs we attach to the gun, this platform is now 8 lbs+; any chance we can get it down to a 5 to 6 lbs platform by using other materials?

Thank you for taking time out to answer our questions!

Gotcha. Yeah, they do have a tabbed rail/receiver option for most rails up there, which is another HK feature I do like.

Regarding materials and weight reduction, honestly, I'm not on the hunt for anything significantly lighter. The problem is that base materials used, primarily 7-series aluminum is already extremely light, strong, and corrosion resistant as is. Barrel materials have to be of a hard stainless or CMV composition for durability, and certain contours to support the desired precision and lack of POI shift we need. That means a certain amount of mass in certain places. Carriers are the same thing - if you go too far under 8.5 oz, you can start running into reliability issues, or at best a reduced window of operation.

There's only so much weight that can be reduced, but we are at such a point of refinement now that we pay for that reduction of material in other ways - resistance to external debris, rigidity, strength, cost, ease of manufacturing, and so on.

With the amount of mission essential accessories we have today, I cannot see a fully configured system being under 8.5-9lb. ever again. The base gun can't ever really be much over 7lb., unless someone is using it more as a precision weapon system rather than an assaulter's weapon. I believe the weight loss can be had with ancillary accessories over time, but even then not by much.

This was actually a discussion point with the USAF and the IMR birth. Configured right (free floated M4, better trigger, etc.), there's not a better weapon anywhere in the world.

S/F

Pretty happy with my freefloated 6920 with an MBT. Don't have any other doo-dads on it.

we didn't have a problem with the ones that did as you described.  It was the guys that wanted to look in our bags, have everyone get out of the vehicle, look under the hood.  All kinds of stupid shit.  We are talking an air field entry well inside the wire.  Not entering the main gate of a FOB.  But like I said, even they would get tired after a short time and then spend the remainder of their three months inside their shack...

There was a time when the senior ranking member could vouch for all personnel in the vehicle around non nuke stuff.

Thank you.  Sometimes lemon ain't worth the squeeze, but oh well, one can only dream.

Frankly, I find it laughable that you think anyone of us actually wanted to do that stuff. I don't know how the infantryman game is played, you don't know how the USAF Security Forces game is played.

Every junior enlisted looks for a way to not have to do that stuff. And I do mean every one, even the ones that are making Base Airman of the Quarter, early promoted, USAF Kool-aid drinking types. The "Prototype" Airmen that leadership holds up as an example is likely to just be the best at knowing when leadership is around and act accordingly.

There are two reasons you got searched at an internal ECP:

1. Leadership was out and about on post checks and could have been monitoring, waiting for someone to fuck up. That is what they do when new folks rotate in.

or

2. You or someone in your party pissed him off sometime. Congratulations, you won the grand prize. You get to wait while I go find my stupid little wheeled mirror on a stick so I can look under your vehicles. Yes, please try to pull rank, you'll lose that one.

You know the only only folks I actually ever had issues with talking shit at an ECP overseas were the no name, nothing special, soldiers and Marines. Green Berets, SEALs, MARSOC, and SOCOM folks were all pretty chill when they rolled up and I explained what I had to do. Even if they just came in from outside the wire, off a plane or were going out.

Which are you? An exceptional dick unlike the rest of your community or some no name soldier in a platoon somewhere moved around on the battlefield map like a pawn?

calm down francis.  I am certainly a nobody no matter what unit I served with.  Just calling it like I actually saw it.  And to save you some future heart ache, I'll let you in on a little secret.  Everybody is gonna fuck with the AF because y'all have it better than the rest.  Except maybe for the security forces guys, even the rest of the AF fucks with them

I'm calm

Don't mind a little shit talking back and forth. Just saying, having a good working relationship with the mall cops aint a bad idea. Professional courtesies are a thing. It gets you things, like extra alcohol rations when you're passing through Al Udeid on your two week leave mid deployment.

Besides, the US Gov trained and paid me to watch people for a living. Just relaying my observations.

Go kick some doors high-speed

I was a Rigger with 7th Group.  Only doors I kicked were in training.  I got lucky and deployed as a Door Gunner OIF 06-08.  AND I am on medical leave right now with cancer and will be retired by the end of the year so...

Oh. Well that's shit situation dude. Sorry to hear that. My mother is Stage 4 at 48, so I'll pray for you and yours man.

I did have some interaction with the night time Duty NCO's when y'all moved next to Duke Field. Spend many a night out on the long road watching empty darkness and driving around there during the last few months of construction and shortly after the 7th moved in. Was more or less the E-4 tasked with memorizing every nook, cranny and alarm location for both installations, on my shift.

Does anybody remember the Raptors shoehorned into the hanger to ride out that storm a couple of months ago? It would be a strategic body blow to have an adversary successfully go after a cherry target like that.

Airfields that strategic and/or irreplaceable assets operate out of can’t be too well defended and a few guys with rpg’s or grenades getting through a perimeter for a few minutes is an absolutely unacceptable possibility. I’ll settle for ridiculous overkill all day every day.

Is there any indication whether the USAF is pursuing a 2nd focal plane or a 1st focal plane optic?

The Army troops guarding the base got replaced by Ugandans in Iraq.

Ugandans.

Fuck dude. Sorry to hear that.

Best of luck, fuck cancer!

I'm going to Mozambique on over there and shove a stick in your Eritrea.