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Posted: 9/27/2004 3:26:59 PM EDT
Now they are going through various 'nam carrier accidents.
So many lives lost due to the magnesium fire (44 deaths) the F4 rocket launch (140 deaths).
The rocket from the F4 actuall hit a plane McCain was IN AT THE TIME!!! can you believe that?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:38:59 PM EDT
Im gonna have to think about this
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:50:08 PM EDT
The USS Oriskany fire was a bad one. McCain was not only seated in his Skyhawk, he was preparing to launch. He must have used up all of his luck on that one. The Forrestal had a bad fire back in the 60's as well. One of the crewmen let the exhaust from a huffer blow onto a heat seeking missle that was hung under an F4. It exploded and the fire killed a lot of Sailors.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:15:13 PM EDT
The episode about A-4 pilots over Vietnam is one of the best of the "Wings" series. Another great epsiode is about "Thud" pilots over Vietnam, "The Lead Sled". These guys had to make it through 100 missions before they were through with their tour. Heart wrenching stuff. In the meantime, the F-105 took the brunt of the air defenses over the North.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:20:14 PM EDT
they talk bout the F105 like it was a death trap - naming a plane for the sound it makes while crashing can't be good. What was the range on the F105, ten blocks?

The A4 required balls. period. McCains unit had it, the Iraelis had it. All the book sI read about Israel's Air Force maintain that it was a parts hog, they almost had to order a whole plane of replacements for each active plane. Not good when you're cut off from the world.

But watching this wings really was heartwrenching..... duringthe McCain/F-4 rocket fire, there is footage not only of the blast, but also 4 or 5 guys lifting half and one ton bombs to throw overboard. McCain said they were inches from annihalation many times over those three hours.

Rest In Peace brave souls.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:46:41 PM EDT
The F-105 I am pretty sure was named the THUD as much for crash losses in peacetime as wartime losses. But overall, I thought it was a pretty decent jet for the time period. It wasn't an acrobatic fighter by any means, as it was pretty big. But it was fast. And it was powerful. The F-105 could carry a big load too. On short range missions it could haul 16-750 lb bombs. On longer missions (such as those flown from Thailand), it was more common to see a bombload of 8-750 lb dumb bombs. The F-105 could also deliver these accurately.

When they encountered MiGs and were jumped, if fully loaded the SOP was to jettison the bombs to aid manuverability. Also, when engaged, the F-105 was to drop down on the deck and accelerate. This was actually it's best defense against the smaller and highly manuverable MiG-17. The F-105 cold simply outrun it and quickly get out of the range of it's weapons. And, even though the F-105 was outside it's element dogfighting the smaller, more agile MiGs, it still managed a respectable kill ratio. I think it was around parity for the war. The F-4 was a better fighter but the F-105 did have one advantage over all Phantoms in Nam (minus the E model F-4) in that it had a 20mm cannon. The AIM-7 Sparrow of that period was horrible. I recall reading where at one point 45 of the missiles had been fired without a single kill. The AIM-9 Sidewinder was better, but it still left a lot to be desired. It was easily confused by the sun for example. So the F-4B, C and D found themselves dogfighting with crappy missiles and no gun. The F-105 downed quite a few MiGs with it's cannon. And the 105 was a pretty tough warbird, capable of taking quite a bit of lead and still bringing it's pilots home.

BTW, here's what the F-105 looked like. These are models, but still very realistic. I have one here I just ordered myself. Mine is diecast and a work of art. I keep it my "war room" along with some other aircraft models and various other military buff goodies. Anyway, here's what it looks like:

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:59:13 PM EDT
Oh, almost forgot this since we are talking about the F-105. Here is one of my favorite shots ever, the gun camera view of a 105 sending a stream of 20mm bullets into a MiG-17 somewhere over North Vietnam. That poor Gomer sure fucked up by allowing that THUD to get behind him and get a bead on him. He paid dearly.

Bye bye Hanoi Charlie!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:34:10 PM EDT
BTT, so folks can see the cool pic of the MiG doing it's best impression of a .40 cal Glock!

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:38:03 PM EDT
can you repost the pic?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:43:53 PM EDT
Repost? It's working for me.


There. I'll just hot link you to the image at the album. That should work.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:50:41 PM EDT
That's awesome! Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:04:48 PM EDT
My uncle was a 105 pilot for his first tour and an F4 pilot for his second. He moved on to F16s and retired in 89. Just missed Gulf War I.
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