User Panel
Posted: 2/25/2007 5:35:05 AM EDT
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article2303023.ece
Pubdate: 25 Feb 2007 Source: The Independent Author: Marie Woolf, Political Editor Copyright: 2007 Independent News and Media Ltd. Home Office backs heroin on the NHS in effort to cut crime Heroin is to be prescribed on the NHS to hard-core drug addicts under secret plans being prepared by the Government. The move to use injectable heroin follows the success of trials in London, Brighton and the North-east on drug users who fail to respond to treatment and who commit crimes to finance their habit. The proposal follows a recommendation in a restricted Home Office report on crime, which proposes prescribing heroin to addicts and licensing sales of heroin and crack cocaine. The paper, drawn up by the Home Office strategic policy team, a copy of which has been obtained by The Independent on Sunday, says: "The Home Office should consider wider rolling out of injectable heroin prescription for highly dependent users through the NHS." It adds: "Given the failure of supply-side interventions to have any significant effect on the drugs market, it is worth considering a greater management of the market by wider rolling out of injectable heroin prescription for highly dependent users through the NHS." Civil servants say that in Switzerland, where doctors prescribe heroin rather than methadone to "recidivist veteran users", 26 per cent have given it up, and criminality and unemployment have been reduced. The Home Office document, marked "Restricted Policy", says: "Contrary to popular belief, there is evidence that heroin does not necessarily intoxicate the user - it can be stabilised with people living relatively normal lives." Home Office sources said yesterday that three trials of heroin prescription have produced positive preliminary results. The NHS prescriptions are likely to be made available to hard-core users across the country next year. The Home Office said that only persistent users who have failed to respond to methadone would qualify. "It is only going to apply to a small number of people," said a Home Office spokesman. The scheme would cost an estimated £12,000 a year per addict, but could save thousands more on the cost of prison, court and police time. The review warns that the Government is fighting a losing battle against drug smugglers. "There is mounting evidence of the impossibility of winning the war against drugs supply," it says. It suggests legalising the supply of drugs and licensing their distribution or supplying them "over the counter" to combat crime. "A system of controlled availability of drugs would allow the Government to exert a much greater degree of influence over the way in which substances are used than is currently possible," says the report, which was scrutinised by Downing Street. |
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Unbelieveable.
Western civilization slides a few inches closer to the abyss. |
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Cool! Meth is next, I assume. Let's hope they consider a shuttle service so they can equally share in the Mexicans coming into their country!!!
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The Brits did it before and it worked. The Swiss are doing it now and it works. Canada is planning their own programs, too. |
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Amazing. I read the same article and saw nothing about legalizing meth. Although I really can't wait to see the end result. Although I'm sure prohibitionist will continue to use the same weak arguments. |
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Well, what is your solution? Keep fighting the "war on drugs"? As another poster noted above, other countries have legalized these drugs somewhat with decent results. |
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It worked huh? According to who? According to some bullshit study paid for and conducted by the same people who benefit from running it? Free heroin and crack cocaine is not a good thing, no matter how you package it or dress it up. It's common sense. |
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Sure it'll cut crime.....in numbers.
Less people they'll have to prosecute for drug possession. |
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According to every serious piece of research done on the subject, and according to their own police who had to deal with the issues on the street. The Swiss police, who have seen these kinds of programs in action, are some of its biggest supporters. Tell me, do you support methadone maintenance? The US Government does. They say it is one of the most effective methods of dealing with addiction. |
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I used to believe that the "war on drugs" had to be fought. It's now evident that it's really just been a convienient excuse for more .gov runaway power. Our privacy and property rights have been seriously damaged and the militarization of our police is largely a result of this misguided policy.
Legalize them and abolish all the infringements of the past 40 years. Get the .gov out of our lives. Start a massive public service campaign to educate the masses about the evils of drug use. To thoses that abuse drugs at that point, they'll mostly meet their own demise. |
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They do, but there are some addicts who do not do as well on methadone as they do on heroin. |
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Translation: This is nothing more than a recommendation for further discussion… Yet again, more selective posting on drugs by Clifford the Mad Mullah of Marijuana … ANdy |
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According to the Swiss experience, it cut drug-related crime like burglaries by about 80 percent. That is why the Swiss cops support it. |
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Maybe you will feel better when they open the clinics in Vancouver. |
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Normally a person might feel that way at first. But think about it, were just going BACK to the period BEFORE the 20th century Prohibitionist movement. I would hardly call the 19th century the "fall of western civilisation". Now of course ive heard a few emotinal people say "yeah well back then people just did'nt abuse drugs like they do today." Again that is mistaken, Anyone who does research into that era would know that it was rife with "drug culture" more particularly the Victorian period. In fact the whole opuim wars was fought over this issue over who sold the stuff. IT was no utopia back then but it seems to me that the Cure is worse than the disease. Also, this is not really news to me, i saw a news program where this is going on all over Europe. Its called "heroin maintainence", and since it is legally prescribed there is no reason to commit crimes to either sell or get the drugs. All drug related crime plummets. Is it "sad" that someone is actually "getting high"? yeah i guess, but they are getting high anyway excpet now its much worse with prohibition as well. |
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wolfman97's dream is BUSTED!
The Home Office said: "Heroin prescribing is one of range of clinical options available to treat a small number of chronic heroin abusers. There are no current plans to change policy and no current plans to target this treatment to prisoners specifically." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/20/nheroin20.xml And THAT Clifford is the final word because your dream of legalizing drugs would be political suicide for any UK governement! Andy |
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Stay tuned for Canada, my friend. BTW, you are correct. Using large type is the best way to convince people that you have a real argument. |
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And yet AGAIN we see the standard Clifford technique… his bullshit claim that teh UK is going to 'Legalize Herion and Crack' is busted so he switches the topic… in this case to Canada. Tell me Clifford, when did they move Canada to Britain? ANdy |
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Thats generally a response from someone who has lost. |
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Well, if the subject is the UK (rather than your interpretation of probable world events) then you should know that this has been coming a long time. Your statement that the UK .gov would find it as political suicide is not really supported at all. They have already done various trials with it (as mentioned in the article) and the political sky did not fall. Of course, you can expect that the US .gov will get up in arms about it -- just as they got up in arms over Mexico's plan to decriminalize drugs and Canada's medical marijuana program. But as far as the politics within those countries themselves, you would be mistaken to believe that the people in those countries share your attitude. But stay tuned for Canada, anyway. It is coming there, too, and close enough that you can drive up and talk to the local officials yourself if it interests you that much. |
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Yes, I should have used larger type than he did and won the argument. Now, did you have an argument to put forth? |
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I don't mind legalizing drugs as long as welfare can't be provided to those who are addicts. Along with government funded rehab centers. Let Darwin take its course. |
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End the insane war on drugs.
We (Americans) did this in the 1920's. I didn't work. We repealed the "war on alcohol" in 1933. Life went on. "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience." George Santayana (1863 - 1952), The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905 |
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Someone hasn't told the UK Government Clifford… seems they have no intention of getting with your program… Thursday, 18 January 2007, 15:57 GMT Crystal meth made class A drug The "euphoric" sex and dance-culture drug crystal meth is being reclassified as a class A substance in the UK in an attempt to clamp down on its use. People who use methamphetamine - its proper name - now face up to seven years in jail and an unlimited fine, while dealers could be jailed for life. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6273215.stm |
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Did the article make any mention of crystal meth? Did I make any mention of crystal meth? Or are you just confused about the subject again? |
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IIRC, we covered this already. The conclusion was that changing the laws would have significant benefits whether we followed your particular conditions above, or not. IIRC, you agreed to anything that would be an improvement, even if it wasn't everything you might desire in a policy. Correct me if I am misstating something. |
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As long as you understand that I don't want any funding of their habit via rehab centers or welfare... then you are correct. |
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C'mon Clifford! All that dope must be softening your head… you're bleating on that the UK .Gov is weakening it's stance on drugs, yet it seems thay are getting more hardcore from that article… Put down the bong and all will be clear… ANdy |
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Seems foolish to me to keep that stipulation. |
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The second I saw the thread title I new it was posted by the wolfman.
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So you'd be willing to know that the chance of your children becoming drug addicts has more than quadrupled just so that we don't have to waste any more money incriminating the scum of the earth? |
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I don't like admitting it, and I find drug abuse abhorrent, but this is all correct. The drug war is an utter failure, but we'll never get rid of it, since too many people's livelihoods depend on lots of crime, lots of addicts, lots of problems being dealt with by cops, courts, therapists, judges, lawyers, and gun grabbers. "Prohibition" by Franklin P. Adams, 1931 Prohibition is an awful flop. We like it. It can't stop what it's meant to stop. We like it. It's left a trail of graft and slime, It won't prohibit worth a dime, It's filled our land with vice and crime. Nevertheless, we're for it. ................................................ Not much has changed. |
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I don't know what is worse, the blatant use of emotion or the completely unquantifyable statistic... Then the "trading freedom for security" becomes apparent. And for the record, I have children and I'll take the "risk" of ending the insane war on drugs. |
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I haven't seen any reports stating that legalization of drugs will increase the number of drug users. |
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So the legalization of drugs, wouldn't lead to a huge increase of the availability of drugs in public? You're joking right? |
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Good for you, I won't. |
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Just because something is available to the public, doesn't mean that there will be a vast increase in users. |
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If you say so, I'm positive it will. |
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But studies haven't shown it to be true. The only thing I could agree with you.. is that it shows a bad precedent in saying that drug-using is ok (which I don't think it is). |
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Sincerely, Anna Nicole Smith |
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Well, let's see if they can still count to five in a few years.. 1.2.3.4 ... (you know the rest...) |
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Just OD them on the first shot. Problem solved! Just buy them a box and bury!
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If they want it, now, they can get it. Easily. The war on drugs has been entirely ineffective in preventing people from actually using drugs if that is what they desire. Preventing them from doing so is the parent's responsibility, same as it is with underage use of (otherwise legal) alcohol and tobacco. That's the thing about the war on drugs. It isn't just horribly expensive, intrusive into the lives of all citizens, a source of money for violent gangs and a massive expander of government power. It's also entirely ineffective. We spend the money, lose the rights, see the rise of the gangs, suffer the expansion of government, with nothing to show for it. People still can get drugs at will. Vietnam was not a quagmire, Iraq is not a quagmire, but the war on drugs is indeed a quagmire, and there's no way for the prohibitionists to win. Ever. And, just to head off anybody who wants to call me a drug user, I've never used any illegal drugs in my life, I don't smoke tobacco, and I don't drink alcohol (both of which are legal for me). Edited to add: I'm also completely opposed to the government providing drugs for free. That's socialism. If people want to take risks with their lives, that should be their choice, but no-one should be expected to catch them when they fall. |
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Did you mistake that for an intelligent argument? |
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It depends on what you mean by "legalization". Different changes in the law would have different effects. Like, for instance, one change done in Liverpool reduced the number of new addicts to one-twelfth previous levels. Same general experience in Switzerland. But, in case you were really interested, all these drugs were completely legal in the US at one time. They were sold over the counter without even any age restrictions. Children could buy heroin and cocaine as easily as they can buy aspirin today. Even under those conditions, the rate of addiction wasn't much different than it is today. |
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The bottom line is the drug addicts are a drain on society - whether by crime or through tax payer funded free drugs. Personally I think they should just give them one free dose - one big free lethal dose.
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SELL THE HOUSE
SELL THE CAR SELL THE KIDS FIND SOMEONE ELSE FORGET IT I'M NEVER COMING BACK FORGET IT |
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+1000 And DO NOT call me at 3am to admit a drug addict or alcoholic. You got your sorry ass into trouble with drugs or alcohol, do not ask me to help you out. I'll be busy taking care of REAL patients. Where is MY freedom to refuse to treat these lowlifes. |
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Gimme m'free hootch! I neeeeeeeeeeeed it! If you don't gimmee free booze, I'm gonna bust up this place! One bourbon, one scotch, one beer Well I ain't seen my baby since I don't know when, I've been drinking bourbon, whiskey, scotch and gin Gonna get high man I'm gonna get loose, need me a triple shot of that juice Gonna get drunk don't you have no fear I want one bourbon, one scotch and one beer One bourbon, one scotch, one beer |
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