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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/15/2004 12:35:20 PM EST
Sorry if this is a Dupe:


LONDON, England (CNN) -- Five protesters burst onto the floor of Britain's House of Commons on Wednesday as lawmakers were preparing to vote on a ban on fox hunting.

The break-in, which was captured on parliamentary television, caused a suspension of proceedings. It marks the country's second major security breach in less than a week.

The protesters broke into the chamber and heckled the government minister leading the debate.

The protesters were grabbed by doorkeepers and bundled out of the chamber.

The debate on the hunt resumed after about 30 minutes. Lawmakers later approved the bill banning fox hunting by a vote of 356 to 166.
Also Wednesday, protesters clashed with police outside the House of Parliament.

Riot police carrying shields and truncheons battled to keep demonstrators at bay as about 10,000 hunt supporters blew horns and jeered outside parliament in central London.

The Labour government of Prime Minister Tony Blair moved to force the anti-fox hunting bill into law, saying that fox hunting is inhumane and breaches European standards for the treatment of animals.

Supporters say the government is needlessly meddling in their rural way of life. (Fox hunters fear cost of ban)

Speaker of the House Michael Martin is expected to receive reports from security staff on Wednesday's incident and a full investigation was under way, the UK's Press Association said.

Labour Party MP David Davis said: "We condemn the small number of hunt protesters who started skirmishes with the police in Parliament Square this afternoon.

"People have the right to protest but they must do so peacefully. We totally condemn the people who broke into the chamber. It clearly demonstrates the need for an urgent review of security at the House of Commons."

The incident came two days after a fathers' rights campaigner, dressed in a Batman outfit, scaled a balcony at Buckingham Palace, Queen Elizabeth's main London residence.

The 32-year-old man, a member of the campaign group Fathers 4 Justice, was arrested and later released on bail. (Full story)

Royal security was reviewed after a Daily Mirror reporter got a job at Buckingham Palace as a servant before U.S. President George W. Bush stayed there during a state visit in November last year.

Stand-up comedian Aaron Barschak also highlighted lax security by gate-crashing Prince William's 21st birthday party at Windsor in June last year.

Fathers 4 Justice, which says Britain's courts are biased against fathers in divorce cases involving child access, are notorious for their publicity stunts.

Its attack on Blair in the House of Commons four months ago caused a massive security alert amid fears of a terrorist attack and prompted changes to access rules for parliament.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:39:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:40:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 12:40:59 PM EST by Greenhorn]
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:40:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By sq40:
Sorry if this is a Dupe:


LONDON, England (CNN) -- Five protesters burst onto the floor of Britain's House of Commons on Wednesday as lawmakers were preparing to vote on a ban on fox hunting.

The break-in, which was captured on parliamentary television, caused a suspension of proceedings. It marks the country's second major security breach in less than a week.

The protesters broke into the chamber and heckled the government minister leading the debate.

The protesters were grabbed by doorkeepers and bundled out of the chamber.

The debate on the hunt resumed after about 30 minutes. Lawmakers later approved the bill banning fox hunting by a vote of 356 to 166.
Also Wednesday, protesters clashed with police outside the House of Parliament.

Riot police carrying shields and truncheons battled to keep demonstrators at bay as about 10,000 hunt supporters blew horns and jeered outside parliament in central London.

The Labour government of Prime Minister Tony Blair moved to force the anti-fox hunting bill into law, saying that fox hunting is inhumane and breaches European standards for the treatment of animals.

Supporters say the government is needlessly meddling in their rural way of life. (Fox hunters fear cost of ban)

Speaker of the House Michael Martin is expected to receive reports from security staff on Wednesday's incident and a full investigation was under way, the UK's Press Association said.

Labour Party MP David Davis said: "We condemn the small number of hunt protesters who started skirmishes with the police in Parliament Square this afternoon.

"People have the right to protest but they must do so peacefully. We totally condemn the people who broke into the chamber. It clearly demonstrates the need for an urgent review of security at the House of Commons."

The incident came two days after a fathers' rights campaigner, dressed in a Batman outfit, scaled a balcony at Buckingham Palace, Queen Elizabeth's main London residence.

The 32-year-old man, a member of the campaign group Fathers 4 Justice, was arrested and later released on bail. (Full story)

Royal security was reviewed after a Daily Mirror reporter got a job at Buckingham Palace as a servant before U.S. President George W. Bush stayed there during a state visit in November last year.

Stand-up comedian Aaron Barschak also highlighted lax security by gate-crashing Prince William's 21st birthday party at Windsor in June last year.

Fathers 4 Justice, which says Britain's courts are biased against fathers in divorce cases involving child access, are notorious for their publicity stunts.

Its attack on Blair in the House of Commons four months ago caused a massive security alert amid fears of a terrorist attack and prompted changes to access rules for parliament.



I wonder when shit like this will reach us here in the states
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:43:17 PM EST
now they have no reason to own firearms at all. i guess they can't store them at a hunting club (wasn't there a rule over there like that?) now that hunting clubs are obsolete.

what a sad state of affairs that country has become.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:43:33 PM EST
WTF are they thinking...you can't get more British than a Fox Hunt...next they are going to ban the Union Jack on the roof of a Mini for being too nationalistic...
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:47:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
And the sheep flush another of their proud long held traditions.

How are these people even related to men like Churchill?



No Steyr…

Many, many of us are implaccibly oppossed to this ban. The Labour Party is banning Fox Hunting as part of its left wing 'Class War'. Already the Conservative Party has said it will repeal this act if elected. They do not have popular public support for this ban.

The Ban is considered unlawful and unworkable by many legal experts, and the Labour Party intends to invoke the Parliament Act to railroad it through. This may well cause a Constitutional Crisis here in Britain.

Many countryside and pro hunting people intend to engage in direct action and civil disobedience on this one. Its going to be a long and bitterly fought campaign…

ANdy…… Pro Hunting!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:49:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
WTF are they thinking...you can't get more British than a Fox Hunt...next they are going to ban the Union Jack on the roof of a Mini for being too nationalistic...



Don't even joke like that! Our left wingers are already calling for the displaying on Union Jacks to be limited as they are Jingoistic and Nationalistic symbols…

Please God, let a Right WIng Government be elected next time…

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:51:45 PM EST
You see, this is exactly the tactic that the gun grabbers are using here in the US. They say over an over again,"Oh no! This ban won't take away your hunting weapons!" Knowing full well that the 2nd doesn't say shit about hunting. Then, when all but the muzzleloaders are banned and there aren't many hunters left, they'll go on this kick...about how inhumain it is to hunt animals, and how we, as a civilized nation are above such barbaric things as killing animals (never mind that the meat in the grocery freezer has to come from somewhere...and it doesn't grow on trees either ). So, they'll say that there's no need for muzzleloaders, bows, or anything like that any more.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:51:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 12:53:11 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By inferno715:
now they have no reason to own firearms at all. i guess they can't store them at a hunting club (wasn't there a rule over there like that?) now that hunting clubs are obsolete.

what a sad state of affairs that country has become.



Nope! You can keep guns at home… no problem, my current stash is an Ar15A2 and a Marlin 1894c

And we are fighting back as vigorously as we can against the latest gun control laws they are trying to impose! We look to have won this round…

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:53:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:55:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
You see, this is exactly the tactic that the gun grabbers are using here in the US. They say over an over again,"Oh no! This ban won't take away your hunting weapons!" Knowing full well that the 2nd doesn't say shit about hunting. Then, when all but the muzzleloaders are banned and there aren't many hunters left, they'll go on this kick...about how inhumain it is to hunt animals, and how we, as a civilized nation are above such barbaric things as killing animals (never mind that the meat in the grocery freezer has to come from somewhere...and it doesn't grow on trees either ). So, they'll say that there's no need for muzzleloaders, bows, or anything like that any more.



BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER!

Spot on Sir… that is EXACTLY the tack they use over here… your Gun Grabbers are studying and talking to our Gun Grabbers for tips…

ANdy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:57:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8:
WTF are they thinking...you can't get more British than a Fox Hunt...next they are going to ban the Union Jack on the roof of a Mini for being too nationalistic...



Don't even joke like that! Our left wingers are already calling for the displaying on Union Jacks to be limited as they are Jingoistic and Nationalistic symbols…

Please God, let a Right WIng Government be elected next time…

Andy



I feel for you Andy...if I ever buy a Mini, I'll make sure it has the Union Jack on it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:58:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 12:59:03 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:




I didn't mean to refer to all of you guys. But I think you may be getting outnumbered.



We are Steyr, but we are going to go down fighting on this one… this is one Ban too many… we have had enough!

Wish us well, we will need all the support we can get… but we may win through. A lot of VERY wealthy people are against this, it's going to be a long and nasty battle.

ANdy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:58:49 PM EST
What about stag hunting?

Weren't they going to ban that too?

Do any other Euro countries ban fox hunting?

In Spain rural folks illegally shoot wolves and bears all the time.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:02:35 PM EST
And do you guys kill the foxes or just chase them with dogs?

Over here foxes are regulated differently.

Some areas you can hunt them, some you can't.

In Florida it is illegal to kill a fox.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:03:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
What about stag hunting?

Weren't they going to ban that too?

Do any other Euro countries ban fox hunting?

In Spain rural folks illegally shoot wolves and bears all the time.

CRC



The Labour Party is Left Wing and hates anything to do with wealth, freedom, elitism and free expression. They intend to ban ALL HUNTING in due course… including fishing! I Kid you not!

Hunting is very popular in Europe… IIRC Fox Hunting on Horses is popular in a number of countries including Germany, as is wild game hunting, wild boar, deer etc

If this banning everything mentality keeps up I may move back to Ireland.

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:06:53 PM EST
That sucks.

But I thought hunting and fishing were popular among the rural folk?

I guess you are getting out voted by the out of touch elitists.


That is happening here in small areas.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:07:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
And do you guys kill the foxes or just chase them with dogs?

Over here foxes are regulated differently.

Some areas you can hunt them, some you can't.

In Florida it is illegal to kill a fox.

CRC



Yes the dogs kill the Foxes, but as I come from a Farming family and have seen what a Fox can do in a hen house with my own eyes I have no problems with Foxes getting torn to pieces… they are evil little bastards.
We lost over 100 hens to a single fox in one attack.

I expect there will be a rush of applications for .223 rifle permits to deal with the Foxes now.

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:07:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:




I didn't mean to refer to all of you guys. But I think you may be getting outnumbered.



We are Steyr, but we are going to go down fighting on this one… this is one Ban too many… we have had enough!

Wish us well, we will need all the support we can get… but we may win through. A lot of VERY wealthy people are against this, it's going to be a long and nasty battle.

ANdy



Too bad you guys don't have your guns anymore!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:09:22 PM EST
Oh we shoot them if we can but my county has a ban on killing foxes.

I dunno why but it is all moot.

Here in the US coyotes kill foxes when they find them and we now have coyotes and no foxes.

In fact I have only seen 1 fox since 1998.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:16:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 1:17:48 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:






Too bad you guys don't have your guns anymore!



WRONG! We have guns… lots of them. @ 1.5 MILLION registered rifles and shotguns, Police reckon millions more unregisted.

My toys…



Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:18:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 1:18:54 PM EST by CRC]
Bolt action AR? Looks like a good red fox killer.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:20:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

WRONG! We have guns… lots of them. @ 1.5 MILLION registered rifles and shotguns, Police reckon millions more unregisted.

My toys…

img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/ara.jpg

Andy



I thought you guys had to turn in all of your guns for destruction by the police!

That's cool that you were able to keep your AR-15!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:27:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Bolt action AR? Looks like a good red fox killer.

CRC



Bolt action AR…noooooooooooo!

.22 Semi-auto AR15A2 lovely stuff… full milspec, now with a CompM fitted.



.357 Marlin 1894c… now fitted with a 1.5-5x25 scope. This could certainly make an impression on a fox.

On my next shopping list (when the Bank Balance picks up after my wifes home improvement spree) is a 12g Semi auto or Pump Shotgun, either a Saiga 12K or a Remington 870 and a 7.62/.308 bolt action rifle… probably a Remington 700


ANdy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:28:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 1:30:52 PM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Bolt action AR? Looks like a good red fox killer.

CRC



Bolt action AR…noooooooooooo!

.22 Semi-auto AR15A2 lovely stuff… full milspec, now with a CompM fitted.



.22 or .223?



.357 Marlin 1894c… now fitted with a 1.5-5x25 scope. This could certainly make an impression on a fox.

On my next shopping list (when the Bank Balance picks up after my wifes home improvement spree) is a 12g Semi auto or Pump Shotgun, either a Saiga 12K or a Remington 870 and a 7.62/.308 bolt action rifle… probably a Remington 700


ANdy



WTF? I thought all of that shit was illegal in Britan! I'm glad to hear that you guys have SOME freedom left, but I must have been misinformed!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:28:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 1:29:27 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By vito113:




I thought you guys had to turn in all of your guns for destruction by the police!

That's cool that you were able to keep your AR-15!



Only the handguns were confiscated and destroyed… bastards!

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:38:55 PM EST
Does the UK have anything like our NRA?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:39:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By CRC:



WTF? I thought all of that shit was illegal in Britan!



Ah! Rumors of our 'disarmament' have been exagerrated

Basically, as long as you have a 'good reason' ie Hunting or Target shooting, you can own most things except Centre Fire semis and handguns with barrels shorter than 12 inches…

… yes, I could still legally own a 12" Ruger Redhawk in .44 magnum!

ANdy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:39:55 PM EST
Andy, you might just want to let us know what's involved in keeping your weapons legally in terms of registration, storage and inspections so some people that think you're better off than you really are know the truth.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:42:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hank_Rearden1:
Does the UK have anything like our NRA?



The nearest we have is the BASC, which is the biggest pro hunting association.

www.basc.org.uk/

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:49:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 1:51:02 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Andy, you might just want to let us know what's involved in keeping your weapons legally in terms of registration, storage and inspections so some people that think you're better off than you really are know the truth.



Getting a Firearms permit in Britain……

Now what can I own?

No handguns permits any more… total ban on owning handguns with barrels less than 12" long here in Britain now.
Shotguns… 3 round mag limit for break open, semi or pump. Need a Shotgun licence which is easy to get as long as you have no criminal record, all guns registered but you can buy as many as you like.
Rifles… .22 Bolt, semi or pump. Centre Fire is Bolt Action Only. Need a Firearms licence, and all guns registered, ammunition purchase restricted and logged.
Hi Capacity Shotguns Semi and Pump are classified as firearms and need a Firearms licence.

Rifle permit… very hard to get. I have to join a Government Registered Gun Club, after 6 months you can apply for a rifle permit, usually no more than 4 rifles first time round. Permit costs £50 ($90) and lasts for 5 years.

You must have no criminal convictions, you need two referees, one is Club Secretary, the other needs to be a Civil Servant, Doctor or similar, Police do a full background check with employers, etc, (same as security clearance!). Then you are interviewed by Police who will check you have an Police approved safe to store the guns in. You will also need very high level of security on your home and they often require an alarm connected directly to the nearest Police station! Then you will be allowed a permit if you pass all these checks. My licence currently allows me One .22 rifle (my AR15A2) and one .357 rifle (my Marlin 1894c).

Ammunition is also restricted and all sales are logged and entered on your Firearms Permit.

I can only shoot on 'Government Approved Ranges'. I cannot buy more than 1000 round of .22 or 300 rounds of .357 at a time. I can only possess 1500 .22 and 500 .357. However! any run in with the Police will lose you your guns, such as drink driving charge or having a row with your neighbors. Only 134,000 rifle owners in UK now and falling, but a lot more shotgun owners.

As long as I have somewhere to shoot it I could own anything up to .50 cal in bolt or lever action action without any magazine limits. So if I want to and have the money I could buy a genuine .338 lapua British Army sniper rifle. Minimum barrel length is 12" and silencers are legal and you are encouraged to fit one for health and safety. Also legal are bayonets if I wanted to fit one to my gun!

Andy
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:58:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Andy, you might just want to let us know what's involved in keeping your weapons legally in terms of registration, storage and inspections so some people that think you're better off than you really are know the truth.



Getting a Firearms permit in Britain……

Now what can I own?

No handguns permits any more… total ban on owning handguns with barrels less than 12" long here in Britain now.
Shotguns… 3 round mag limit for break open, semi or pump. Need a Shotgun licence which is easy to get as long as you have no criminal record, all guns registered but you can buy as many as you like.
Rifles… .22 Bolt, semi or pump. Centre Fire is Bolt Action Only. Need a Firearms licence, and all guns registered, ammunition purchase restricted and logged.
Hi Capacity Shotguns Semi and Pump are classified as firearms and need a Firearms licence.

Rifle permit… very hard to get. I have to join a Government Registered Gun Club, after 6 months you can apply for a rifle permit, usually no more than 4 rifles first time round. Permit costs £50 ($90) and lasts for 5 years.

You must have no criminal convictions, you need two referees, one is Club Secretary, the other needs to be a Civil Servant, Doctor or similar, Police do a full background check with employers, etc, (same as security clearance!). Then you are interviewed by Police who will check you have an Police approved safe to store the guns in. You will also need very high level of security on your home and they often require an alarm connected directly to the nearest Police station! Then you will be allowed a permit if you pass all these checks. My licence currently allows me One .22 rifle (my AR15A2) and one .357 rifle (my Marlin 1894c).

Ammunition is also restricted and all sales are logged and entered on your Firearms Permit.

I can only shoot on 'Government Approved Ranges'. I cannot buy more than 1000 round of .22 or 300 rounds of .357 at a time. I can only possess 1500 .22 and 500 .357. However! any run in with the Police will lose you your guns, such as drink driving charge or having a row with your neighbors. Only 134,000 rifle owners in UK now and falling, but a lot more shotgun owners.

As long as I have somewhere to shoot it I could own anything up to .50 cal in bolt or lever action action without any magazine limits. So if I want to and have the money I could buy a genuine .338 lapua British Army sniper rifle. Minimum barrel length is 12" and silencers are legal and you are encouraged to fit one for health and safety. Also legal are bayonets if I wanted to fit one to my gun!

Andy



The assault weapons ban that they are trying to pass in Michigan is a close second! In some ways it is even worse! If the ban goes through, anyone who owns an "assault weapon" in Michigan would have to register it annually and submit to annual police inspections of your storage facility (in your home).

We will be just as bad, if not worse off than the British before too awful long.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 2:17:32 PM EST
Andy- I'll be in Bridgend on Oct 23rd- Oct 31st We still on for that pint in your local?- Sorry to hear about the vote today- My liberal Welsh employers were even badmouthing it.


But batman looked good at Windsor! lol- I love you wacky Brits even if your government hates guns...

Cheers

Jason
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:40:42 PM EST
According to the UK Guardian police blotter there are more handguns now after the handgun ban but just in the hands of bad guys, when the bad guys can't steal a handgun they saw-off a shotgun........My friend is a cop in Brasil he says that there are more guns now after the ban than before the ban. The answer is get the bad guy....not punish law abiding citizens....
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