Article

A second chance for glock!

Here's the RFI: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=fe7079c93ffdef10c8739e461f05a2d8&tab=core&_cview=1

It's for a .300BO

So...what system did they write those specs to get?

is that length possible without a piston?

HK
HK
HK
HK

Somehow it will be a HK

Micro RPK.

Short barrel and collapsing stock 416. 

You can set that up for any caliber.  If you want something that short, at what point does a MP7 make more sense?

Sig mcx

My thoughts exactly.

Honey Badger don't care!

ETA, RIFF.

But yeah, the RFI has been closed since April

This is old news

An MCX would have to have a 6" barrel to be 17" or less when folded,  they are actually saying they would prefer 15" folded, also.

Seems like it would make more sense to have different uppers for 300blk and 5.56, since they'll need their own zeroed optics and lasers ready to go in those 3 mins, also.  It can be done, but why?

RFI Q&A:

92222-17-RFI-DW
Personal Defense Weapons Questions and Answers:

Question 1. Is the 5.56 “quick change (3 min or less) barrel only a barrel or is it a complete upper?
Answer 1. The intent is to only change the barrel, not the entire upper

Question 2. Should the 300 BLK and 5.56 utilize the same suppressor?
Answer 2. Yes, using the same suppressor

Question 3. Could you please Offer more details as to all of the specifications you are looking for on
the Personal Defense Weapon that’s posted on FBO.gov.
Answer 3. We are currently developing the Performance Specification, when it is complete we
will provide it to industry. All critical aspects of the system were mentioned in the RFI.

Question 4. What are the meanings of (T) and (O) on the section that states ". Length with stock
extended not to extend 26" length with stock collapsed or folded shall be 17" (T), 15" (O) and a height
not to exceed 7.5"?"
Answer 4. This means that the weapon must be less than 17" in length when the stock is
collapsed or folded while still being fully operational, however it is desired that the weapon be no more
than 15" in length when the stock is collapsed or folded while still being fully operational.

Question 5. Can it be a standalone upper or does it need to be a quick change replacement barrel?
Anser 5. The intent is to only change the barrel, not the entire upper

Question 6. Does the overall weight and height requirements also include a magazine?
Answer 6. The magazine is not included in the weight requirement. The height requirement
does not include the magazine either.

Question 7. The rifle with the stock fully extended, it shall not exceed 26" overall length?
Answer 7. Yes, the weapon complete with stock extended may not exceed 26” overall.

Question 8. The rifle with the stock collapsed or folded shall be no more than 17" overall length or
15" overall length?
Answer 8. The length of the complete weapon system with stock collapsed or folded cannot
exceed 17” as a minimum, the goal is to have a system that is no longer than 15” with stock collapsed or
folded.

Question 9. Pertaining to the 5.56 caliber portion- Namely, what is the desired overall length of the
weapon, both with stock system collapsed and extended? Is SOCOM seeking the same dimensions as
specified for 300 Blackout, or is the intent to maintain a longer overall length to ensure the rifle meets
adequate MOA requirements at distance?
Answer 9. The intent is to have the same length/size weapon in both calibers.

Question 10. Would it be possible to provide the Government’s anticipated quantity for this
requirement?
Answer 10. We planned to procure 550 systems.

Last time we did this I thought we decided it was spec'd almost intentionally for the sig MCX family.

In before joglee says it will be a short barreled 416.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZSFBy9CZ8

What does this accomplish? Is any operator going to be refitting his weapon outside the wire, then rezeroing his sights, IR laser, optics?

Even so, they'd be better off just issuing spare uppers.

At what point does 40 rounds of 4.6mm make more sense than 30 rounds of .300? I'd almost think this would replace the MP7 should units that have it decide so.

That's usually the purpose of the RFI. The government sees something they might like and as part of their due diligence in the acquisition process they'll put out a RFI/Sources Sought notification so that they can see what all out there is in industry to do a comparison against. RFI/Sources Sought notifications don't mean a RFP is coming through. The government fires off a lot of these so I wouldn't get too excited until a draft-RFP is dropped on FBO.

When you're a tier one pipe hittin' motherfucker sometimes you just need a lot of different pipes!

I would have to double check the dimensions but I think an XCR micro meets the descriptions.

Eta-except for the ar lower part.

Wow, lol. 

They need a Scout Rifle. 

I suppose the MP5 and it's cousins are officially retired relics at this point?

HK 21 PDW...

Stargate FN5.7 (whatever that thing is called)

MCX.

Q is probably wanting to get the Honey Badger back in the game with this. We shall see.

Toothpick crossbow?

Please tell me thats shopped...

They'd be best served with a Scout Rifle.

Something to accommodate all those female Rangers coming down the pipelie. ??

My understanding is that it will. This will kill off the SMG further, and they will become more of a niche. In the past 15 or so years SMGs have been regulated to a few categories:

1) SWAT teams looking for something with less penetration for hostage type situations.
2) Special forces looking for something that suppresses better.
3) Ultra compact weapons for vehicle crew members.
4) Very niche, but body guards that need something just a tiny bit bigger than a pistol but something that can still be somewhat concealed.

Number one is dying due to proliferation of 5.56 carbines and newer rounds as I understand it. There are holdouts because some countries have not got with the program, but mostly it is due to funding. Plenty of MP5s in use all over Europe.
.300 BO seems to kill the need for SF to use 9mm suppressed.
Number three may be a mix. Looks like most tank crews carry a short 5.56 carbine these days. I think this is ideal for ammo commonality. Even Marines carry M4s in their Cobras. I know the Dutch started issuing B&T MP9s in full auto in addition to the Glock 19 for F-16 pilots.
Four I can see something like an MP9 or MP7 being superior to a .300 carbine. I think SMGs with 4.5-5" barrels and load from the grip will be the future for this role.

They already were niche, but that niche got smaller. Very different from WWII, in which they were often issued to front line troops in the USSR.

Too long IIRC...

17" collapsed/folded is a big ask out of an AR platform. At least if you expect it to have decent ballistics even with a 300 bo.... I have one thats about 20" collapsed with a troy pdw stock and an 8.5" bbl. So you would need a 5" bbl... 300BO is good, but a 5" bbl? Its gonna suck. You might shave an inch or two off collapsed length by using a LAW folder but still it would be hokey as shit ballistically.

A troy M7a1 has a 7.5" bbl and comes in at 21" collapsed per the interwebz...

Is that a giant heat sink attached on the right front?

QD bbl...

Integral suppressed 300 blk MCX is being T&E or already in use with a few units.

MP-5a3 is ~22" with the stock collapsed. Mp5K (PDW) is 13.7" call it 14"...

So they want an AR-15 in an MP5k form factor basically. 300BO needs about a 8-9" bbl to be decently effective, sooo nope..

Has to shoot with the stock folded as well.

The MP7 isn't a good man stopper. It's already being scrapped.

So no side folder then... Or you use some weird AR pistol derivative without the buffer tube.

Sounds like the test was designed for the MPX. I wonder if the micro tavor in 300 could work?

Folded with a 9" bbl its 19.5", chop off 2.5" inches to get it to the 17" its a 6.5" bbl. Thats not gonna be great ballistically for 300 BO, at least if you are using supers. To get it to the 15" mark its a 4.5" bbl at which point LOL...

Also is the MCX compatible with standard uppers?

Already done:

https://www.knightarmco.com/pdw-8-10/

Knight's PDW

Ok. They are already in use. Don't know they specifics.

If you're asking for a .300, I'm pretty sure there is no point where an MP7 makes sense.

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for LMT.

Wrong caliber, and still too long (19.5")

Plus their PDW cartridge is shorter than the standard AR cartridge, so the whole thing isn't backwards compatible with anything IIRC.

I'm sure they are if you say so. They just don't meet the specs provided in the OP's post, which IMO are breathtakingly stupid.