Did you vote for Hillary?

...and he refers to illegal aliens as "immigrants."
The open border advocates have to lie to support their position.

Cruz barely beat Beta o'rourke for his senate seat.
Cruz is not electable on the national  level.

I'd love to see that happen, but the Chamber of Commerce would never allow that to happen.................they love their cheap labor and could care less about the average American

I think we can all agree that the Chamber of Commerce is very...…….VERY POWERFUL.

LOL at all the people in complete disbelief about what Trump said...and you still can't accept the reality of the situation.  For years I've been saying there is no support for removing ALL the illegals.  They didn't have in the 1980s and they have never had it since.  You all lost your mind too when Rand Paul said the illegals already here aren't going anywhere and wanted options to make turn them into tax payers so they were at least contributing something to the country they live in.  Trump is talking about a larger broad immigration/work plan and some form of pathways to citizenship will be included in that.

The left is pushing socialism and open borders hard, you all are screaming about deport them all like you are the majority.  Guess what, you aren't.  Not saying that isn't the best option on what to do, it is just never going to happen or it already would have.

Should they act differently then?

Trump had to lie in order to get elected. "Hillary Clinton won't go to jail!" Does not sound as exciting as, "Lock her up! Lock her up!"

Trump --in this whole equation-- is the liar. And Trumps anti-gun, "take the guns first," puppets/followers are perpetuating the lie.

Trumps, "fence for amnesty," deal is a bad, bad deal. It is a bad deal for conservatives, it is a bad deal for the American people.

Look we ALL KNOW Trump can be a bloviating asshole who has not come true on all his promises and has NOT given us ONE FUCKING pro gun initiative.

But I support the wall initiative because I think it will work and help substantially in funneling potential illegals to areas that are more easy policed and patrolled.

AND I also AGREE wholeheartedly that the Chamber of Commerce needs to be told to FUCK OFF......Trump could do MUCH better on that front.

But you and I are in COMPLETE disagreement on the value of the wall...……...and that will not change...…….we are entrenched in our opinions on that one.

The turnout in the Democrat take-over of Congress was Trumps fault. The Democrats were voting against Trump...

"Lyin Cruz" termed by Trump and Trumps, "pathway to citizenship for illegals" puppets... Had an honest chance until the Hillary-funding Trump machine came along...

Trump got all the press and airtime he needed by the liberal press to attack, what Trump and Trumps followers termed, "Lyin Ted."

Ted Cruz... Stood the line on gun rights, hated by Trump and Trumps, "take the guns first," puppets.

!Jeb! Bush... First in the nation, "Stand Your Ground," law... Hated by Trump and Trumps anti-gun followers.

Paul Ryan... Pushed-back against Trumps demand to create a "red flag" gun ban on a National-level... Trump wanted to create a ban on anyone arbitrarily added to a, "watch list," by the government... Ryan stood-the-line against Trump... Hated by trump and Trumps puppets...

Trump corp... Which is pushing for the exact same thing as the COC is very, very powerful...

I cannot believe that you cannot see the very-real danger in Trumps, "relatively short fence for amnesty," deal...

You are not getting what Trump is selling... You are looking at the wall, which is what Trump corp wants you to look at.

You are not looking at the fact that Trump corp (and the COC) want cheap labor to come in droves. The wall won't stop that, and that is how the majority get here.

Now you are not getting a wall. You are getting a short fence.

And the cost... The cost is more Fed LE, and a DACA deal, and amnesty...

The cost is too much. The cost on conservative ideals is way, way too much.

Conservatives do not want more Fed LE, and conservatives do not want a Dreamers to get a,  "pathway to citizenship."

I edited my post from pg. 7...

Depends if they want to influence what is going to come or if they just want to scream at the sky.  That applies to many issues that conservatives back.  People want their ideal vision to happen and anything less than that is a capital offense in their mind.  So they back no one because no politician supports their ideal.  They scream about their ideal but no one outside their little circle cares.  The cuss the politicians, who then ignore them.  Leaving them with no input what so ever and they are forced to accept what those who have input want.

I think we should treat illegals the exact same way Mexico would treat us if we illegally snuck into their country.  That will never happen though.  Back in 1980s there wasn't support to deport all the illegals.  Society in general has gotten more liberal since then.  We saw the Republicans fold the second people started screaming about "separating children from their parents".  Yet people here scream "deport them all".  Trump wants limited merit based immigration.  Helping get that passed would do more than screaming to deport everyone.  Rand Paul wants to turn illegals into tax payers, at least then they are contributing.  Neither is an ideal, so people here flat out refuse to even talk about it and opt for nothing.  That just kicks the can further down the road into the increasingly liberal society.

Yep....

Ideologues- "I will not support anything that doesn't 100% advance my view of the world. Trump and every politician since Washington is not doing what I want."

Trumps campaign promises on immigration were as crystal-clear as his campaign promises to put Hillary in prison, "Lock her up! Lock her up!" and his promise to over-turn Obamacare...

Trumps campaign promises on immigration were crystal-clear, and repeated almost every day of his campaign...

"Mexico will finance the wall through remittances," "Build the wall!" "The wall just got 10 feet taller!"

And...

Link

Link

Link

Link

Link

Trump made very *specific* campaign promises on gun rights... Trump has broken those campaign promises.

Trump made very *specific* campaign promises on what he was going to do with Hillary... Trump was going to put Hillary in prison... Trump has broken that campaign promise.

From, "only the best people, to gun rights to balancing the budget... Trump has broken his clearly-stated, and often-stated campaign promises.

The problem with Trumps new, "~300 mile fence for amnesty" deal is that it is 1. Bad for conservatives. 2. Bad for our country. 3. It breaks just about every campaign promise Trump made on immigration.

Trump said he was going to deport every illegal immigrant as part of his, "Mexico will  pay for it," border-wall promise.

"THEY HAVE TO GO BACK!" is what Trump yelled to millions of voters...

Trumps, "Short fence for amnesty," deal is a bad, bad deal. Trumps criminalizing bumpstocks, not over-turning Obamacare, and exploding the deficit are bad deals too...

FIFY

The former USA was cooked a long time ago.

"no big push" is an ambiguous non-statement that can mean any number of different things.  Enforcing existing immigration laws to the letter would, by definition, be business-as-usual (as meant to be, not as practiced) and therefore lie outside of the definition of "no big push".

We elected a guy who  has a personal business stake at keeping the flow of cheap labor open...

He needs seasonal workers at his golf courses that are only open for warm periods of the year...

The Chamber of Commerce wants to keep businesses like Trump corp receiving cheap migrant labor.

Trump corp wants to keep receiving cheap migrant labor.

***THATS*** the problem. Trumps, "fence for amnesty," deal sucks.

Trump uses migrant labor. Trump is not going to close the spigot that is *actually* causing the problem in this country...

Trump is not calling for enforcing existing laws... Trump is not keeping his clearly-stated campaign promises on immigration...

Trump is not calling for enforcing existing laws... He is certainly not keeping his campaign promise to deport all illegals...

Trumps "Mexico will pay for it" border wall  deal is now a deal for a steel fence, more Fed LE, and amnesty for illegals. Trump is breaking multiple campaign promises in his latest flip-flop...

Sorry Juni, you are woefully wrong on the value of a wall.

Let me stop you right there.  Campaign promises are political rhetoric designed to help a candidate get elected.  No sane person believes a candidate will 100% be able to fulfill all their campaign promises.  Of course you 100% believe Romney will do 100% of what he says even when Romney 100% states he did not...but that is a different thread.

This country has checks and balances.  A President doesn't get to create law, so most of Trump's promises are things he could never do by himself.  It would require Congress to take his plan, create a bill, and pass it.  Republicans like yourself, worked against Trump from the day he got elected.  You and them created the failure that you now want to blame Trump for.  Meanwhile, Trump is still supporting the things that he campaigned on.  However, he isn't an idealist who will scream at the sky, instead he knows he has to work with Congress to get something less than ideal done.

"The wall" (funded by remittances to Mexico, and accompanied by deportation of illegals) is a good idea. But *that* is not what we are discussing here...

Trumps deal... For a short fence, a vast increase in the number of Fed LE at the border, and pretty much any deal Democrats want on amnesty... Is not a good deal.

Trumps current deal represents *multiple* broken campaign promises...

A Mexico-funded border wall, and companies (like Trump corp, and the Chamber of Commerce) forced to stop importing cheap labor, and deportation of illegals... That is what I support.

I do not support Trumps, "fence for amnesty," plan. It is a bad deal, exactly like the rest of Trumps bad deals...

He refuses to acknowledge his RINO favorites tried to undermine him during and after the general election. A few of them helped democrats with that fake dossier.

It is pointless to debate this character who will redirect to Trump just like leftist do in order to escape culpability and accountability.

You are conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration, just as the left does to bolster their arguments.  If you have a documented source showing that Trump knowingly employs illegal immigrants on his workforce, lay it out... I'm listening.

And a three-year moratorium on action against the the DACA'ns isn't amnesty.  It's a bargaining chip that puts any action on it squarely in the middle of his second term, when he will have nothing to lose by backing unpopular legislation.

"Pathway to citizenship for illegals," Trump puppet: "Hold on right there with all this talk of keeping campaign promises. Hold on. You can't expect Trump to be honest."

Lol, rofl.

Holy crap.

Holy crap.

Trump has done the 100% opposite of what he has promised on his main campaign promises...

Balanced budget... 100% opposite.

Eliminate deficit spending... 100% opposite. The deficit is growing.

Protect 2nd Amendment... 100% opposite. Trump increased gun laws.

Romney has integrity. Romney balanced the budget and cut government spending... Link Romney has always claimed he made government smaller.

Romney increased gun rights... Link Romney has always maintained he made things better for gun owners in MA.

Trumps, "take the guns first," puppets: If pathological liar Trump gets caught in another lie, blame Romney!



So... While Trump was attacking his fellow Republicans during the campaign, making campaign promises... He was going to need them once he got elected to keep the promises he was making?

That does not sound like sane policy.... That does not sound like a good plan.

Looks like a plan that would have been obvious at the time was a plan destined for failure...

Holy crap.

Holy moley.

"Its everyones fault but Trump." Lol, rofl.



Trump created the failure that belongs to Trump.

Holy crap. You are a true, "take the guns first," Trump follower/puppet/believer.

Trump has wholly abandoned his principle campaign promises. Trumps, "fence for amnesty," is just one in a long-line of long- abandoned campaign promises.

I bet you think that Trump is going to put Hillary in Prison at some point...



"Take the guns first," Trumps campaign promises were devoid of any mention of any plan to, "work with congress."

In fact, when challenged on his campaign promise that Mexico would fund the wall through remittances, he said, "it will be easy."

"IT WILL BE EASY." -Trump Link

Trumps latest flip-flop on immigration is just one of a long line of broken campaign promises...

now hold on... we were told by the Trump pumpers that Trump was uniquely positioned to actually DO these things that he was promising because he wasn't a politician like the others. He knew how to get shit done.

a huge percentage of folks - many here - were dumb enough to actually believe that, I suppose.

My point was how the wall won't solve the problem... Because The Chamber of Commerce and Trump corp won't actually solve the problem...

I just provided a documented source --TRUMP HIMSELF-- showing that Trump employs *legal* immigrants.

And how --per Trumps DHS-- many *legal* immigrants don't leave? 51%.

There is your problem.

"Legal" immigrants brought here by Trump corp, and The Chamber of Commerce become illegal immigrants at the end of their visas when they don't leave.

My point is that Trump himself is part of the problem he does not want to fix.

Trump has openly-stated support for a, "pathway to citizenship."

And Trump moving to the left on his, "Mexico will pay for it" border-wall promise is not a victory for conservatives. It is another broken campaign promise...

Ah, the RINO/Swamp, "Vote for me again, I did not keep my campaign promises, but if you vote for me again, I will finally give you what you voted for me to do."

If Trump was not able to accomplish his campaign promises with a Republican congress, he is not going to keep his campaign promises with a Democrat congress.

Take your, "take the guns first," Trump puppet snakeoil somewhere else.

Trump imports foreign labor. Trump corp (and the Chamber of Commerce) is not going to fix the *real* problem on immigration... Employers and welfare.

Trump had no plan, or ability, or leadership to accomplish his campaign promises when Republicans held Congress. It is an open lie to say that Trump is going to keep his campaign promises with a Democrat congress. Trump is a failure who has no real plan or ability to keep his campaign promises.

Improved...

Nobody with a functioning brain believed the, "Russia," narrative. Nobody.

Just like nobody should have believed Trump when he said he would deport 12 million illegals, and it would be easy to force Mexico to pay for a border wall.

Or Trump when he said he would put Hillary Clinton in Prison.

McCains service in office was a sham. Just like McCains accusations against Trump. And Trumps accusations against McCains war service. All were shams by men with no character. Except McCain, at the end of the day is a MOH-vouched, war "hero," and Trump is just a pathological liar.

It is pointless --from a conservative perspective-- to try to get, "take the guns first," Trump puppets to see just how bad Trumps broken promises are to conservative ideals, and America as a way of life.

It is extremely difficult to get, "pathway to citizenship for illegals," Trump followers to see that Trump is a pathological liar doing what pathological liars do... Nothing more, nothing less.

Trump imports foreign labor. He and the Chamber of Commerce and welfare is the problem. His, "short fence for DACA" plan is a sham...

Remember one of Trump's biggest primary cheerleaders?

Ann Coulter blasts Trump shutdown compromise: ‘We voted for Trump and got Jeb!’

The fact is our national survival depends on kicking out as many illegals as we can.

If we don't some of the largest Republican electoral vote strongholds like Texas will eventually go blue because of demographics. If Texas turns blue, or possibly even just opening the door and going purple once, we may never see a Republican elected President again.

Some of us warned you that immigration wasn't going to amount to much more than a means to an end for Trump, just like guns. That he's willing to entertain amnesty isn't new news at all. This 2013 article about Trump meeting with Dreamers and being "convinced" was posted as a warning many times during the primary: Donald Trump Tells Immigrant Advocates “You’ve Convinced Me”

ETA: I will say, it is funny watching die hard Trump supporters stoop to using Democrat talking points against deportation to defend Trump, "There's too many of them, we can't round them all up," "They're doing jobs Americans won't."

Spot on.

I doubt Trump intends to create the imperial presidency, and it's also possible these speeches are a stage-setting step in the govt shutdown negotiation. But your criticism rings hollow because it doesn't go far enough. Holding Trump responsible entails acknowledging he has the power to do almost anything via national emergency, and so far has not.

I think one thing is pretty clear.  For many Trump voters this wall situation will be the make or break of his reelection.

Other than the trade defecit (which is tariff based and easily reversible) we really haven't gotten much --though arguably haven't lost as much.

This is the hill he has to die on and if not...no amount of smooth talking will convince many of his likely voters.

Rush must read ARFCOM. He just said exactly what I did about Texas and what happens if we lose their EVs.

LOL, the guy is at the top of the list for flip flopping depending on which way the political wind is blowing.

Romney's own words showing him flip flopping.  

Yes, Trump was and is uniquely positioned to do those things.  Did you even read my entire post?  The GOPe fought against him, the GOPe controls Congress, and Congress failed to implement the ideas that Trump was pushing.  Why didn't the Republicans fully fund the border wall when they controlled the House?

A President can't make laws, you should know that by now.  The Republican Congress failed to deliver the agenda that Trump pushed.  Trump did his part and pushed the agenda.

The Jeb! approach to immigration.

Who knew?

Arguing about policy as if there is a functioning Constitutional Republic is pointless.

America, as I have said before, was a great place but time, human selfishness and envy destroyed her long ago. Now we will see massive amounts of wailing and screeching as she continues to disintegrate. States are passing massive gun control. There is no 4th amendment and some are still pretending there is hope.

It's over. Time to realize that before it slaps you in the face.
Arm yourselves and prepare for what is coming.

Please clap?

Yes, *I* know a president can't make laws. "Pushing your agenda" (as president) is not what makes laws happen. *THAT'S* what a lot of people seemingly didn't understand.

Trump failed to rally the party around his agenda. THAT is something that was entirely predictable.

Correct. Somehow, some people got the idea that Trump is an outsider. Someone wealthy enough to not be beholden to moneyed interests- wealthy, but not a part of the globalist club. Someone that was going to overturn the apple cart, go scorched earth, drain the swamp. The last chance for a political solution.

@SWIREYou are right, and we don't have the numbers to reform welfare, or even to cut illegal immigrants off from welfare.  We won't have enough numbers unless tens of millions of people are disenfranchised through some mechanism.  I have suggested that the president recognize the insurrection and use it to disenfranchise registered Democrats - but Donald Trump does not appear to be a fighter president.  Perhaps in time, a winning majority of whites will vote along an ethnic identitarian line.  Perhaps people will smile hard enough and argue things well enough so as to convert all the "minority groups" who don't vote Republican - like the Irish or the Haitians.

I can't imagine anyone could expect 11 million people to be rounded up and deported.
The time, money, resources just aren't there I don't think.

Holy crap.

Trumps, "take the guns first," puppets when pathological liar Trump is caught lying, again: pass the blame.

Mitt Romney cannot be blamed for Trumps failures.

Romney flip-flopped? Romney flip-flopped? Lol, rofl. Trump is offering a DACA deal in exchange for a ~300 mile fence. That is not flip-flopping, that is selling the farm. Lol, rofl.

Trump breaks *another* campaign promise. Trumps, "pathway to citizenship for illegals," puppets: BLAME ROMNEY!

Holy crap. Unbelievable.

The world record holder for flip-flops. From (registered) Democrat to Republican President. From importer of foreign labor to, "Mexico to will pay for the wall through remittances." Trump is the world-record flip-flopper.
Did you actually post an attack advert video by the Democrat Party? Trumps, "take the guns first," puppets are not even trying to hide their affiliations and political-leanings now...

Holy crap. Wow. Holy crap.

Romney accused of flip-flopping in an official Democrat Party attack advert from 2012? SAY IT ISN"T SO!!-!! Lol, rofl.

Romney did not support Obama's, "recovery plan," and wrote, "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt." The DNC got that bit incorrect... Romney is technically factually correct on that. And repeating liberal-media talking-heads attacking Romney is political nonsense...

Romney, per the DNC, flip-flopped? Lol, rofl.

Next you are going to say that the Democrat Party did not want Romney to win in 2012? No, they were being impartial observers to Romneys record! Lol, rofl.

This is all  to humorous... And the purpose of posting a DNC attack advert video attacking Romney...? Defend pathological liar Trumps pathetic record.

Romney flip-flopped? Probably. It is probably a fair accusation.

Trump?

Trump?

Trump said he was going to put Hillary in Prison... Flip-flop.

Trump said he was going to over-turn Obamcare… Flip-flop.

Trump said he was going to appoint the, "best people." Those people (Mattis, Tillerson, Sessions, etc) all say Trump is a fraud... Flip-flop.

Trump said he was going to make Mexico pay for the border wall through remittances... Flip-flop.

Trump said he was going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants. He said he would do it humanely... Flip-flop.

Trump said he was going to balance the budget... Flip-flop.

Trump said he was going to eliminate deficit spending, and pay-off the deficit... Flip-flop

Trump imported foreign labor, and defends the practice. Same as the Chamber of Commerce. Trump was never, ever going to ever fix the real problem regarding immigration: employers and welfare.

Trump made the promises, Trump failed to deliver on his promises, now Trump and Trumps, "take the guns first" followers are trying to pass the blame.

Trump had stopped saying, "Mexico will pay for the wall through remittances," after the election and before inauguration day. You cannot put that on anyone besides Trump.

Trump had stopped saying he was going to deport 12 million illegals in the same time frame.

Between Trump winning the election, but before Trump had taken the oath to defend and protect The Constitution... Trump had already stopped pushing major parts of his agenda.

Within 48 hours of Trump winning, and before he could formally do anything about it, Trump had promised not to pursue his campaign promise to go after Hillary criminally...

You are just trying to, "pass the buck," to defend Trumps failed record. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are just another, "take the guns first," Trump puppet trying to defend Trumps failure after failure to keep Trumps campaign promises.

I had no idea how deep republican opposition would run. Naively I thought they would help him.

I live here. I don't need Rush to tell me what's at stake.