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Posted: 8/7/2002 7:50:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2002 7:53:11 PM EDT by Paul]
Here's a story about what happened to me the other day. I'd like to hear what folks have to say: The other day, it was about 11:00PM and I was out for a walk (I was watching my mom's dog for her). I live in a city. Anyways, as I'm walking home, I see about 1/2 dozen cop cars blast past me with lights flashing, etc.. They were all stopped at this bar that's 2 blocks from my house. So I put the dog inside and went to the bar for a beer, since it looked like an exciting place. Well, there were about 7 or 8 people in the bar. What had happened was this: There were 30 or 40 people in the bar. 2 of the people there were in an biker gang and also were quite drunk. They started a fight with some other people and soon there was a brawl between the 2 bikers and bunch of other people. The bikers took off before the cops came and said that they would be back and they were going to bring their "boys." So everyone in the bar took off an went to another bar. There were only a few people left. So I'm sitting there, drinking a few beers, and about 45 minutes after I showed up at the bar, I notice outside the door a minivan and an SUV park across the street and between the 2 vehicles, over a dozen men get out and start strutting towards the bar. So here comes the biker gang. As soon as they walked in, a gal ran behind the bar and called 911. The bartender (a gal about 19 or 20) and her father (who owns the place) are saying shit like, "Yo, we don't want any trouble!" So the gang is looking to beat some ass, but everyone that they wanted to beat up had fled 40 minutes before. I just drank my beer and watched them strut around like badasses. It was sort of amusing. So the leader says it's time to leave (I guess because there is no one to fight with, plus the police are on the way. The bar was pretty deserted when the gang showed up and it was easy to hear the girl on the phone giving directions to the 911 operator). On the way out the door, one of the guys grabbed the video game machine (this is one of those "touch-screen" type machines that are common in bars with the different card games and such--not a full-sized video game). So one of the guys grabbed the machine and shoved it off the counter onto the floor where it broke. Then they split and the law dogs showed up a few minutes after the gang left. The law dogs questioned some people and they split. As far as I know, they just filled a report and didn't make any arrests. The law was pretty efficient, though. I'd say that from the time the gal placed the call to 911, it took under 5 minutes for 3 cop cars with 2 cops each to roll up. So overall, it was interesting, and I'm wondering what you folks would have done. I thought about it, and there was really nothing that I thought I would do if I were the bartender or the owner of the bar. There's no way to survive a physical confrontation, because there were so many bikers. Even if I had myself a scattergun behind the bar, I probably would not have brandished it, since there were no weapons visible on any of the guys, and even if they started walking around smashing all my video machines, they never threatened the patrons or the employees. The only wonton destruction was the video machine, and that happened on the way out. So even if I had a scattergun, I wouldn't want to use it, cuz if I blasted some guy and the cops started asking questions, I'd probably go to jail. Or is a group of 14+ men spoiling for a fight considered close enough to lethal force to justify self-defence? Overall, an exciting night! -Nick Viejo [fixed Ganges to Gangs in title - Paul]
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 7:59:27 PM EDT
I would have left if I heard a gang of drunk, angry bikers was en route.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:08:30 PM EDT
Sooooo, you went to the bar because of all the police cars going there and didn't leave when you heard the biker gang was on it's way? Well, alrighty then. I'll just say that I don't think any of that was very smart.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:08:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2002 8:10:39 PM EDT by N_Viejo]
Originally Posted By raven: I would have left if I heard a gang of drunk, angry bikers was en route.
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Well, if you are looking for the safest thing to do, that's definitely it. I was curious to see what would happen though. I think they are just some weekend road warriors and not the real deal like the Hell's Angels covered in Hunter S. Thompsons book of the same title. All the same, I wouldn't want to fight 15 of them at once, even if they are 90% hot air. My point of posting this story, though was twofold: 1) It's kind of interesting. 2) I'm wondering if I were in the owner's position, what could I have done? You can watch them walk around and destroy your property, but any kind of intervention is likely to get you wounded--or so it would seem.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:23:49 PM EDT
Ahhh...the fine filthy arrogance. Arock
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:24:22 PM EDT
I wouldnt suggest shooting any bikers with a shotgun, especially if you have a bar. Because you probablly wouldnt have that bar for much longer, or your life, or your family's life. That depends on which gang it was I guess. Which gang was it by the way?
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 9:18:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2002 9:19:33 PM EDT by M4]
I sat in on the murder trail of a relative of mine. She was murdered by a biker gang in FL. Now your average Harley owner is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about organized biker gangs. If one thing was clear, these people are shit. Total, bottom feeders who will kill anyone who they like, for any reason. They aren't good ol' easy rider guys, they are complete shit, violent, self serving opportunists who deserve nothing but my total hatred. I'd stay clear of them, which isn't a problem for me since I don't hang out in places bike gangs do. I did see a group of about 20 of these guys, from the same gang that killed my aunt, riding on the highway about a month ago. I can't tell you how I wanted to part them with my truck like a stack of dominos at 85 mph. If there's one group deserving of police brutality, it's them. They're deserving of my brutality, and if that day ever affords itself to me, I'd like nothing more than to take some of them out like they took my aunt. She was a beautiful woman, who did NOTHING to deserve what happened to her. Biker gangs have a life long enemy in me.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 9:39:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2002 9:40:33 PM EDT by BenDover]
I got to agree with the "sticking around isn't such a good idea" theme on this one. Even though it might have been exciting, it defies all fundamental self-defense and security theory. Putting distance between yourself and potential aggressors is the best self-defense move. I can see barroom brawls on Charles Bronson movie reruns.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 6:39:39 AM EDT
[fixed Ganges to Gangs in title - Paul]
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Hey Paul, thanks. I would have assumed that it was in India, in a bar by that river.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:06:38 AM EDT
Nope I would have done the same thing.. Just like airlines letting people fly for free this Sept 11thmwe cannot let these SCUM run the lives of decent folk. Mind you I would hope I lived in a CCW state and picked up a friend hopefully in .45 before hand.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:17:23 PM EDT
You did the best thing in just sitting there as an observer,of coarse bad things can happen to you if you put yourself in the right place at the wrong time. And don't worry about taking on three guys ,much less fifteen(unless you are jackie chan) Are you? Bob [8D] All together bad move,but then again its your life.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:24:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:20:11 PM EDT
You really were incredibly stupid to hang around. You had no way of knowing who was going to show up. I can tell you that many of the worse biker gangs would have simply kicked the dogshit out of whoever was left in the bar, regardless of whether or not they were part of the original brawl. Trust me, they would not have interviewed you first to see if you were one of the people who had 'disrespected' their brothers. You're not one of them, then you're the enemy. Next time get the hell out before the bad guys show up if you have any inkling they might be coming, or your night might be more 'interesting' than you thought possible.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:37:09 PM EDT
Well, if a fight did break out while you were there and you had to use deadly force you would be in big trouble because you went looking for trouble. Myself, I have a concealed weapons permit and usually only go places where I can carry. A bar isnt one of them. I carry a weapon in hopes that I never have to use it. Therefore I avoid trouble and places where there might be trouble at all costs. Running down to the bar that a bunch of cops just finished up at isnt the brightest idea!
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:37:42 PM EDT
When I was young and stupid I ran with the pagans and when you are young the outlaw biker life looks real glamorous, it's not. The guys I hung out with are mostly dead or in jail and that is where most of them belong. The master at arms in the local chapter was named Nails, he received his biker name because he and some other pagans nailed a young college girls palms to a tree and gang raped her(no I wasn't there)the local president of the club was called Frog and he was a very dangerous individual who was responsible for the deaths of at least two girls that were riding on the back of his bike when he had accidents. The one guy who I remember with fond thoughts was called Crush, he was a med student and his grades dropped and he was drafted, he chose the army and the Green Berets. He was awarded a silver star for valor and the bronze star for saving the lives of half his team by standing up in the middle of an ambush when they were outnumbered 5 to one and advancing on the north Viet Nam regs and driving them back until reinforcements arrived. He was the baddest mother fucker I ever met to this day. He was also one of two of the pagans that talked me out of joining the club. I saw first hand the violent nature of these men and how cheap life was to them. I was lucky to have some friends that cared enough to steer me away from the club and all that I would have become.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:38:13 PM EDT
Lookee'here boys, this ones got a pretty mouth. hehehe
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