I've seen several members of this board use (in passing  mostly) derogatory comments regarding Kimber guns.  What's that about?

I'm no fan myself - indifferent really - and I think they are way too expensive, but I have a few friends who swear by them.

Stories?

Jay

EDIT - almost forgot... what does "BTT" mean?

Aside from the usual factory screw-up, i cant imagine anybody downing the Kimber. its just as good a pistol as the Sig wich is similiarly priced. it is certainly a better pistol than the Colt 1911. i have owned two Colt 1911's and two Kimber 1911's. Kimber wins hands down.


Kimber custom stainless lib

Well, I haven't shot a Kimber, but from the finish I've seen and the reviews, I'd say they have a solid product.  I know that a guy I bought my Glock 26 from was selling it to help finance a couple of Kimbers.

I did a couple days of contract work for these guys up in their Kalispell, MT office/house a few years ago.  Great guys, good attitude, definitely fun to be around.  If I hadn't chosen the low-paying, high-fun job route since, I would own one of their guns in a heartbeat.

My .02.

I have seen some Kimbers break.  This was back during the begining of big Y2K rush.  It seems that the demand was so great for Kimber.  That they seem to cut back a bit on the quality control to make up for the demand.  I have seen some of their new models and they seem to solve that problem.

2 words smith &wesson.

I think other than the occasional factory screw up, there isn't a thing wrong with them.  AR18 is correct in stating that Kimber has improved their quality control.

One of the reasons I like Kimber is they listen to the customer, and they provide a product that the customer wants.  We all can't buy a 1911, then ship it off to a quality 'smith for custom work.  Kimber gives us the most popular upgrades that the general 1911 fan wants.  Is a Kimber as good as a custom gun?  Hell no, it is still a production gun(Custom Shop not withstanding).  Are Kimbers pricey?  Yes, but it is still cheaper than buying a box stock Colt, and having a Beavertail, high visibility sights, and upgraded safties added.  
Another great option is the Springfield Loaded.

Zane

You won't see me slamming them.  Great guns, best factory 1911 for the money.  

I had one and if some one will tell me how to post a pic from my aol filing cabinet I will post a pic of it.any how notice I said had.and yes I got rid of it by choice.
Gary

Beagles-  I don't think the kimber frame is MIM, it is forged steel.  The MIM parts are the slide stop, safety, and crap like that that seem to keep breaking according to some reports. I don't sweat that as if they ever break they aren't too expensive to replace and I haven't seen a problem with mine anyhow.

I have a Kimber Pro Carry SLE and I love it to death.  Much more than my SIG or Glock, which I both love for their own strengths.  Kimber is supposed to have horrible customer service according to some reports but my pistol was solid and shot right to point of aim right out of the box.  Over a thousand rounds and still as good as new.

Planning on buying another as soon as I can afford it.

Your friend is full of shit.  Kimber frames are forged steel.  MIM is Metal Injection Molding (not "Metal Injected Metal") and is used in the making of certain non-stressed parts in Kimbers AND in the new Colts.  

Rik nailed it.Some Kimbers have machined aluminum alloy frames. MIM, from what I understand, is used only for small parts. And it's a long way from the pot metal you're thinking of. My AR's have an anodized aluminum upper. My car has an alloy block. I rappel with aluminum 'biners. Lots of aircraft parts are aluminum. The steel frame don't mean shit. Unless you're planning on 10000 rds a month, or you detail strip it 5 times a day, you shouldnt't see a difference.

Actually, Kimber buys their frames/slides unworked from the same company as Wilson, at least thats what I was told,and it's not S&W. Can't remember now, but it starts with a J. Help me out here.

I'm not sure who you are thinking of, but Wilson used to buy their slides from Kimber.  I don't know if they do anymore.

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Right, thanks for refreshing my memory. I still can't remember where I finally found out Kimber got them though.

Kimbers are American made, very accurate, reliable 1911s. Frames are forged steel or 7000 series aluminum not MIM. Kimber sets the high water mark for 1911 type guns, Colt isn't even close despite their improvements in the last few years. My Kimbers and the guns of several people I know run very well. I'd highly recommend Kimber.

Way too expensive? Heck no. ...I was at a gun shop just yester day where the guy had 4 different models of kimbers that had prices ranging from 600-780.  What bargain for a customized 1911.

Now this is solely my opinion but Kimber .45's and .40's are the best damn handgun I have ever used, reliable, perfect balance and very concealable.  Not to mention they are so accurate it is scary.

Go Hokies!

You weren't paying attention very well.  Colt is using MIM (which isn't plastic either) in their small parts too.  Also, the new Colts are not "actual 1911s" either in that they have made the Series 80 modifications (which Kimber has not).
And either you or your friend wasn't paying attention yet AGAIN...Kimber doesn't "buy their frames from Smith and Wesson."
They buy raw steel forgings (basically unrefined blocks of stainless steel) from Smith and Wesson, among others.  Or at least they did...that was a couple years ago and they may have a new supplier now.  Frankly I don't care.

no complaints about my supermatch, love it, and would highly recommend a kimber.

I recently purchased a 1911.  I had the choice of Colt, Springfield Armory and Kimber.  I ended up buying the loaded stainless spring field for the following reasons.
1.Better fit and finish.
2.Felt more solid in my hand.
3.Smoother action.

Jericho Manufacturing? According to my information, they make the frames and slides for Kimber, Wilson Combat and Chip McCormick.

Tachyon

Actually, Kimber makes a pretty good 1911 copy. Probably better than most. Kimber's detractors basically fall into two categories.

First, there are the die-hard Colt fans that believe that nobody but Colt can make a good 1911. Although I'm a colt fan, I don't agree with this.

The second are folks who have had problems with Kimber in the past (especially when Kimber first started making 1911's, when they were emerging from their own bankruptcy, I'll remind the Kimber loyalists.) Most of those problems are behind Kimber now.

Kimber gained their market by putting custom touches on production guns. Looking at a Larry Vickers gun from 20 feet, you can't really distinguish it from a Kimber. Only when you take a closer look can you see the differences.

Initially, Kimber had problems with MIM parts being less reliable. Chip McCormick's parts on the Kimbers were made from sintered metal which is basically a form of 'near-net casting.' People trying to differentiate their products from Kimber's pointed out that MIM parts are technically cast metal, with all the negative connotations that cast metal brings. McCormick and others have made advances in the application of MIM to firearms parts and now the 'pot metal' description can not longer be fairly applied.

Kimber's frames and slides have always been made by Jericho, and they are top-notch. The connection to S&W mentioned in the thread is that Jericho has manufactured frames for S&W in the past (and may still, for all I know).

While Kimber's customer service it top notch, I'm not convinced that their manufacturing quality control is up to par. I see too many boxes at the gun shop I deal with that are going back to Kimber for work. The good news is that you'll probably wait less time for your Kimber to be fixed after buying it than you will for a comparable problem with a Colt or Springfield.

The gunsmiths I know would rather use a Kimber as a base for a custom gun than a Colt or Springfield, mostly because the frame and slide are made to higher standards.

My personal experience with Kimber has not been good, but I won't bore you with the details. Suffice it to say that I don't own a Kimber anymore.

All of the above said, I'd rather have a customized Colt or a custom from a smith I trust than a Kimber. I may buy another Kimber in the future, but it's not going to be a primary weapon for a long time, until its proven to ME that it is as reliable as the Colts I've bought.

Tachyon

When I was looking for my first 1911 I had lots of people suggest I get a Kimber and an equal number of people that said not to. I personally like the Kimber's I have actually seen and shot.

I kept an open mind and went with a [b]Dan Wesson 1911[/b],  Pointman Guardian Duce.
I'm was so happy with the quality and the way it shot that I bought ANOTHER gun from them 2 days later!

My uncle who bought a Kimber very recently (Custom Stainless) saw my Dan Wesson and wanted to trade on the spot!!! Don't think so pal, I don't care if you're family or not![pistol]

[url]www.danwessonfirearms.com[/url]

I had one of the old Kimbers.  It was the first model of Classic Custom that still had the plastic McCormick trigger.  I put 9,000 rounds through that gun in about 5 years and [b]never[/b] had to replace [b]any[/b] parts.  It shot extremely well and even after that many rounds the gun only had holster wear and internal parts polishing.

The frames on the full-size models (Classic, Gold Match, etc.) are forged, solid steel.  The smaller concealed-carry oriented pistols have the aluminum frames.  You Colt fanatics out there might want to remember that the Lightweight Commander and the Officer's ACP were both made with aluminum frames, just like the compact Kimbers.  

As far as quality, Colt sucks.  It has sucked for the last 10 years.  Every pistol I've seen to come from the Colt factory in that period has needed to be tuned before it would shoot reliably.  The AR-15s that have come out of the factory since the ban have been of dubious quality as well, some are tackdrivers, some are total junk.  

Kimber makes great guns.  Heard of a few problems with their guns, but they (unlike Colt) are more than happy to make the customer happy happy.





"Do what you will,
just don't fall for some of the gun writers' crap."  

I tend to agree with Tachyon he has the manufacture right. The make frames for wilson and Kimber.

My issue with kimber is you are paying top dollar for a none custom 1911 for the same cost as there top lines you can get a true custom 1911 from name gunsmiths. So to me I will take my money drop it on a GSP or equivalent.

But each to there own

Clinth

Actually Kimber has added a type of firing pin block like the “Series 80” Colt. I looked at a new Stainless the other day and there it was. Looks like it works off the trigger bow some how. The Little girl working the counter at Galyins got a little nervous when I started taking it apart to “check it out “ so I quit.

It actually works of the grip safety and has no effect on the trigger pull at all, unlike series 80 colts.  There is no discernable difference in feel between their earlier guns and the new II models.

Would not purchase a Kimber unless it was a steal of a deal that I could instantly turn around and make money on.  Would I bet my life on a Kimber...NO WAY!

I feel like it must be my life's purpose to try and talk sense into people who think Kimber makes the best 1911 from the factory.  HA, far from it.  Before you start slamming my comments, I would suggest you talk to any 1911 gunsmith WHO IS A MEMBER of the American Pistolsmiths Guild.  No doubt you will not hear good things to say.

Kimber assembles their guns from parts manufactured by various third parties...and the same part may change manufacturers depending on price.  Their fit is NOT what I would call extremely tight...just look at THAT HOLLOW beavertail safety's fit to frame.  Look at a stock Springfield's...much nicer.

THINK, man, THINK!   What SWAT organization whether federal, state, or local do you know of who has standardized on Kimbers?  None, that I have ever heard.  What Special Forces group have you heard of using Kimbers?  None, that I have ever heard.  Who spends the most amount of money on Marketing and Advertising in the 1911 world....ahhh, now your answer is Kimber!  

Don't forget that all of those "unbiased" gun magazines and reviews' authors usually get a freebie gun from the manufacturer...to KEEP!  If you wanted to continue to get free guns from that manufacturer or others over the years (so you can write your "models comparison" article down the road)...you'll be careful how honest you are in writing.

Oh yeah, lest your love of Kimber that is making you boiling mad right now cloud your objectivity:  ask some of the top handgun instructors out there.  Lets see, I am thinking of Col. Jeff Cooper, Clint Smith, and possibly even Larry Vickers (awesome 1911 gunsmith).  Can you guess what their experiences have been with students who use Kimbers?  *chuckle, chuckle*

All this to say that I wouldn't mind shooting a Kimber if it were just paper targets for fun.  However, dollar for dollar I would buy a Springfield or Colt (with an action job to bring the prices up to par with Kimber), or even a Rock River Arms pistol.   Kimbers look nice, but self-defense should not be based on looks or advertising claims.

I have a Kimber CDP Pro Carry. It is by far the most accurate and reliable 1911 I have ever owned.

Naw, I don't base my opinions on advice from so-called "experts."  I base my opinion on over 15,000 rounds put through five different Kimbers without a single jam, over 8,000 through my stainless Gold Match, which I DO count as a defensive carry gun and which has NEVER jammed, not one single time.  
If I didn't have first-hand experience, I wouldn't bother to state my opinion.  Other people should think about adhering to that advice.

Expert?  Naw, you just have to try to actually know the facts on the subject before making a purportedly "authoritative" statement.

I bought a Classic Custom when Kimber was still in Clackamas, Oregon. Thousands of rounds later it still is 100% reliable and very accurate.

Kindly stop trying to mislead people - or listem to folks who know a little more about the guns

Jericho made the frames when Kimber started to make 1911s, but now Kimber owns Jericho.  Jericho has highly sophisticated manufacturing equipment that enables them to make high-quality stuff.

Chip McCormick makes a lot of their parts.  That's hardly a run-of-the-mill-" third party supplier.  They are used because they are able to MEET KIMBER'S HIGH PRODUCTION STANDARDS!!!

Also, you're nuts if you think Springfield's fit and finish are better than Kimbers.

No, my answer would be SPRINGFIELD and Kimber

I don't know of anybody standardized on ANY single-action at the moment.

I'm sure a number of SWAT teams use Kimbers as well as the Springfields.  BUT, if you buy the pistol adapted by the FBI HRT, you'll pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500-2000.  It is not valid to say Springfield is better than Kimber on the basis of one high-end model adopted by one agency - especially when most pepole will be buying guns in the $750-$1100 range.


A cheap shot to a profession I doubt you know anything about.  

Besides, if Kimbers are as bad as you say they are, why would a gun writer who can have his pick want one?

JayC,

I may be one of the people you are refering to.
My Kimber Polymer Gold Match Custom is the worst firearm purchase of my life.

It is a complete jam-o-matic.  Kimber customer service was terrible.  I spent over a grand and got a total piece of crap.

I know that many others are happy with their Kimbers.  I am not.  

I am not trying to "trash Kimber" as much as I am trying to keep other members from wasting their money on the Polymer model.

Live Free

On top of this staement, I would like to add that I believe I remember an article on that Vickers guy, Kimber was one of his acceptable choices for a base gun.

If you hang out at 1911forum.com a little, you'll get the skinny. Kimber's QA is still a little hit or miss, but they are improving. The most common complaint about the new Eclipse series is the front night sights go dead after a couple hundred rounds. That's not enough to stop most people from buying one.

I sent a Kimber in for a problem and it was repaired and retruend next day air the next day.  Does not get much better than that.  

Hmmmm.  It's interesting that you would say that members of the American Pistolsmiths Guild are "so called" experts.  This is not an association that accepts you with your dues.  I'd re-think your position.

As for your experience with thousands of rounds through your Kimbers...what kind of shooting was it?  Were you keeping it nice and clean at your local gun range or IPSC/IDPA shoot?  I should hope that there wouldn't be any jams.  However, if you were shooting in combat simulation with a lot of movement, rapid fire, in the dirt/rain/mud/rocks...then I'd admire your pistol.

Here's the deal in my opinion:  Kimber made some KICK ASS guns early on.  For the last several years you are DEFINITELY going to be hit or miss with the quality.  Frankly, I am less than impressed with the overall quality of their guns.

But they do look pretty...

Why would you want GB to dig up a post where you act like an idiot?  Aren't you making yourself look like a big enough idiot in THIS thread?

Yeah, I have serious issues with anyone that posts BS about a subject of which they are totally ignorant and claims to have an authoritative source for it.
And then gets angry when someone corrects their mistakes.

The way I did it?  I didn't say "You're full of shit" I said YOUR FRIEND (who you said told you the bad info) was full of shit.  Then, when you said "Maybe I heard him wrong" about the first bit of misinformation, you repeated ANOTHER bit of misinformation.  In reply to that, I said you weren't listening very well to your friend again in this case and told you why.
Sorry you took offense...well, no, not really.