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Posted: 5/11/2004 5:39:32 AM EST
I want to know what you guys think? I saw the "abuse photos" and I personally didn't think this was abuse. Crying Liberals might think so but this is war. In a fraternity, this would be considered abuse but in WAR? Give me a break. Being stacked in a pile with other naked guys , having panties put on your head, having a chick point her finger at your weenie. That shit wouldn't break me, how bout you? I doubt if that even would soften them up. I am not saying torture is OK but this isn't torture or abuse. What do you think?
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:43:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:50:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:27:14 AM EST
Basically, I agree with you.
I think that the problem is that what started out as garden variety psychological pressure got out of hand because there wasn't sufficient command oversight. I think it's pretty obvious now that there was stuff going on that was over the top. Not to mention the fact that some of these people were 'borderline suspects" who were swept up in dragnet style detention tactics.
I think there are a lot of reasons why at this point this whole thing is going to prove to be a real mess.

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:28:37 AM EST
I think it is being overdone by the media and taking away from what we should be concentrating on.

Whoops, my bad and get on with it already.

Tj
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:31:09 AM EST
I said it before and I will say it again.

My main problem with this whole situation is that they documented it.

I know stuff like this goes on. I don't condone it but I do accept it. I have a really hard time getting emotionally worked up and upset over what those Iraqi's suffered.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:10:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:22:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 8:25:19 AM EST by Red_Label]
I am "uncomfortable" with the photos and stories of prisoner abuse. But I am OUTRAGED with the partisan politicians and media whores who are inflaming the opposition and putting our service men and women at additional risk. This war really is becomming another Vietnam, but it's NOT so much because of what the President has done, as it is what the ENEMIES ON OUR OWN SOIL are doing. They are all traitorous SOB's whose hands are/will be soaked in the blood of those who've had the courage to put their lives on the line for ALL Americans. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE those who sell-out our troops for their own personal gain. The likes of Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, et al are selfish and evil-embodied. May they ROT IN HELL for their actions...
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:27:13 AM EST
Not for nothin but things have settled down a little over there since they have seen how their 'friends' have been treated by....FEMALES!!!

coinkeedink??

Screw em all I say, they deserve lots worse for shooting in our general AO
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:41:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By DWW22:
I want to know what you guys think?



I dont think the photos depict "torture" or "abuse." I think the photos depict sexual assault. I dont find it acceptable for the deputies at the local jail to do it, i dont find it acceptable for army reservist to do it. We are better than the savages and should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:41:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:47:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:52:20 AM EST
IMHO the reservists were unprofessional & inept. Hazing prisoners won't help with interrogations...

Now, I have no trouble with 'calculated' interrogation tactics.

Solitary confinement? Sure

Sleep deprivation, 24/7 exposure to loud rock & roll? Sure

Naked solitary confinement, with articles of clothing, bedding, light, showers, & heating/cooling as rewards for cooperation? Sure

Even mock executions or being forced to stand at attention because you'll be 'electrocuted' (with no actual electricity involved) if you step off the box? If it's needed...

The thing is, any of that could be seen as WORKABLE interrogation techniques.

The 'man pyramid' & frathouse prank crap was just plain stupid.

The chem-light crap, or the foced mastrubation, that's just sick & twisted... Ditto for these morons making ametur porn (some of the video/photo evidence apperently involves recorded sex between US servicemembers) in their spare time...

These guys should have known better than this... Or maybe we should have let the intel people run the whole operation - while they may or may not have been nicer on the prisoners, they certainly wouldn't videotape the kind of crap we saw...
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:02:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
The chem-light crap, or the foced mastrubation, that's just sick & twisted... Ditto for these morons making ametur porn (some of the video/photo evidence apperently involves recorded sex between US servicemembers) in their spare time...



Yep. The media is a few days behind the curve on that aspect. The affair between England and the married prison guard is going to become a bigger issue. It appears that for a few of the involved service members, that this wasnt about intel at all, it was about sexual kicks. they were bored, and using the Iraqis as their sexual play things. Things like the female gaurd exposing herself to the male prisoners, the extramarital affairs between guards, and the amature porn are all indicators of this. Harmon wasnt even assigned to the priosn. she just went there to hang out with friends. yet she ended up in a picture with her face in a pile of iraqi ass.

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 9:41:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:06:12 AM EST
Yeah...fuck'em.



Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:12:01 AM EST
Right now we only have ALLIGATIONS of anything more than a frat hazing that is questionable as a violation of international law.

If they have photos of something more, or other physical evidence, they had better cough it up or forget this matter.

But the events of this morning may cause the public hearings by the Senate to stop. Its simply going to be impossible for the US Sentate to justify to the public what its doing investigating US soldiers after the beheading of a US citizen on camera.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:17:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
If they have photos of something more, or other physical evidence, they had better cough it up or forget this matter.



they have the baby in Englands womb. Which is physical evidence of her affair. Adultery is a violation of the UCMJ that should be prosecuted.

The pentagon has additional photos and video taped evidence, but they are undecided on if they will release them. So far they are only willing toshow them, in private, to select politicians.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:40:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 10:45:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/11/2004 11:04:58 AM EST by bilster]

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
I am "uncomfortable" with the photos and stories of prisoner abuse. But I am OUTRAGED with the partisan politicians and media whores who are inflaming the opposition and putting our service men and women at additional risk. This war really is becomming another Vietnam, but it's NOT so much because of what the President has done, as it is what the ENEMIES ON OUR OWN SOIL are doing. They are all traitorous SOB's whose hands are/will be soaked in the blood of those who've had the courage to put their lives on the line for ALL Americans. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE those who sell-out our troops for their own personal gain. The likes of Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, et al are selfish and evil-embodied. May they ROT IN HELL for their actions...



Good call!
Personally, I don't call most of what I have seen as "abuse." I would call it, "Frat asshole hooligan kegger homoerotic humilation hazing teabaggering."
It is still wrong, and thumbs up chick should be hosed down for her prominant role in it.

The real abuse should be dealt with accordingly. Including court martials for the dumb fuck OICs who didn't know this was happening. As an officer, they better goddamn well know what is going on in their commands or units!

Bilster
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