Posted: 1/26/2004 7:25:41 PM EDT
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Let me first say that CCW is a right, not a F##king gift but for the Blade you can't ask for better. COLUMBUS - A couple wants to give you a gift. They ask what you want. They go to the store. They don't buy that gift. They return to your house. They talk about it for hours. They make excuses for not making the purchase. This goes on for 10 years. And after the couple compromises, you sort of get what you want. This month, state legislators and Gov. Bob Taft gave gun rights supporters a gift that citizens in 45 states already have - a legal means for law-abiding and mentally competent citizens to carry concealed handguns. For Kim Rife, that gift arrived with a pink ribbon. So after a decade-long struggle, don't expect her to fete the legislature and Ohio's governor, for the gift arrived very late and it's not exactly what she wanted. "The problem is we have too many Republi-crats, wanna-be Republicans," she said. Ms. Rife grew up in Milford Center, a small town in Union County northwest of Columbus. By the age of 8, she was firing off gunshots at tin cans in the back yard. She grew up with a reverence for the U.S. Constitution - "all of the amendments, not picking and choosing which ones to support." She has met with legislators to try to convince them to stop adding restrictions to where citizens can pack when the concealed carry law takes effect this spring. Ms. Rife didn't succeed. Last week, legislators did something that appalled Ms. Rife. The state Senate voted 18-15 to approve a bill to ban gay marriage. The legislation was needed, supporters said, to "close a loophole" to prevent courts in Ohio from forcing the state to accept gay marriages from other states. The House of Representatives is expected this week to agree with minor changes, and send the bill to Mr. Taft, who plans to sign it into law. Kim Rife, 39, is a lesbian. "How does my getting married to my partner diminish a heterosexual's marriage?" she said. Ms. Rife is the founder of the central Ohio chapter of Pink Pistols, a national gay and lesbian gun rights group with about 5,000 members that promotes the "safe and responsible use of firearms for recreation, competition, and self-defense." Critics of Ohio's anti-gay marriage bill referred to it as "bigoted, hateful, politically driven," and compared it to statutes in the United States that for many years deprived blacks of the same rights as whites. Only weeks after passing a bill that Ms. Rife believes could help protect gays and lesbians from hate crimes in Ohio, the legislature passes legislation that she believes could scapegoat the same people. Asked if the legislature's anti-gay marriage bill would trigger more gay bashing in Ohio, Ms. Rife replied: "That is difficult to say. Will it make bashers more bold? Sure. But with a concealed carry law, when a couple of queers pull out their pieces, the eyes of the bashers will get real big." Ms. Rife refers to the two incidents nearly two decades ago as "footnotes" in her life, but she fought off gay bashers outside two Columbus gay bars. "The first time, I saw some movement and I saw two guys who had come out of the bushes. One had a bat. "I had been trained in jujitsu when I was 14. I let one of them hit me first. They got the worst end of the deal. They had cuts above both eyes and fat lips. I had a fat lip and they stumbled away,'' she said. By brandishing a handgun, Ms. Rife said she believes she could have avoided her two violent clashes with the men. That's why she wants legislators to enable permit holders to carry a concealed handgun into a bar and then put it into a locker. "For better or worse, the vast majority of gays and lesbians do tend to meet in bars. If I have to put my gun in the trunk and go into the bar, I am more vulnerable. What we need is a basher protection zone," she said. Ms. Rife has listened to the rebuttals from leaders of gay rights groups who support gun control in part because they are allied with Democrats who fight on behalf of gay rights. "I've heard people say, 'Guns are not going to make the hate go away.' My first answer is, 'Who cares?' The second is, 'Are you sure?' There are a lot of people I would have termed 'rednecks' who are volunteering their time to help us out. They are getting to know us. They are figuring out we're not different after all. We have the same desires. They are getting an education, and we are learning to understand each other,'' she said. Ms. Rife formed the central Ohio chapter of Pink Pistols last July. It has grown to 75 members. Chapters have been formed in Cleveland and Dayton, and there's interest in Lima and Cincinnati. A commercial printer who lives in the small town where she grew up, Ms. Rife was diagnosed in 1998 with multiple sclerosis. She is living on Social Security Disability payments. But she said her health is improving and she has two plans in addition to returning to work. She is saving money to buy a handgun. "And my partner and I will get married in Ohio, whether it's legal or not," Ms. Rife said. |
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Hi all! Yep, Kacer = Kim C. Rife = KCR = Kacer - a nickname I got in HS. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in the way of a CCW firearm? I'd PREFER to stay in the $600 and under range cost-wise for my first piece ... and am open to suggestions. I'm partial to the Baretta 92 but am concerned that's a stretch for CC. Especially since I'm 5'-6" and about 140# - not tiny, but not "big" or bulky either .... StonerStudent and I will be working on my AR-15 later this year - but that's NOT (easilly) concealable ;) |
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Quoted: Hi all! Yep, Kacer = Kim C. Rife = KCR = Kacer - a nickname I got in HS. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in the way of a CCW firearm? I'd PREFER to stay in the $600 and under range cost-wise for my first piece ... and am open to suggestions. I'm partial to the Baretta 92 but am concerned that's a stretch for CC. Especially since I'm 5'-6" and about 140# - not tiny, but not "big" or bulky either .... StonerStudent and I will be working on my AR-15 later this year - but that's NOT (easilly) concealable ;) Get a used Kimber(UltraCarry) in .45 cal![:D] [devil] |
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I like my Glock 33 (.357 Sig), but I think I would get the same gun in .40 (Model 27) now as there is better ammo availability. Plenty of power in a reasonable size. If you are anywhere the Cinti area and want to try out my 33, let me know. I tried one of the small Berettas and had issues with it. Jeff |
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Quoted: Hi all! Yep, Kacer = Kim C. Rife = KCR = Kacer - a nickname I got in HS. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in the way of a CCW firearm? I'd PREFER to stay in the $600 and under range cost-wise for my first piece ... and am open to suggestions. I'm partial to the Baretta 92 but am concerned that's a stretch for CC. Especially since I'm 5'-6" and about 140# - not tiny, but not "big" or bulky either .... StonerStudent and I will be working on my AR-15 later this year - but that's NOT (easilly) concealable ;) As a NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Instructor..... For a ladies first pistol I always suggest a revolver. This allows the lady to carry/purchase, said revolver in a purse "specifically designed" to hold it. While I encourage the addition and taking of the CHL test w/ a semi-auto (here in TX your allowed to carry anything IF ya take the test w/ a semi-auto), the revolver when setting in a purse, allows the use of said pistol "without removal from the purse" and adds the element of [b]"surprise"[/b] to that late night encounter, as perp will never know, until it's too late, that he's picked the wrong target. As and aside all the makers of concealment purses I am familiar with will replace a purse used in this manner for free, (as they will want the item for display and advertisement, so buy a good one that fits your lifestyle and tastes). This is the best way to carry for ladies IMO, it's safe and easy and as stated above the firearm is never revealed, simply used from hidden sight. As most encounters involve "male" egos, and no perp worth his salt will "not try" to take a pistol, being waved around by some female, my philosophy is don't let them know, so when they order ya to give the purse, give it to 'em, bullets first! It'll be last and final surprise of their miserable lives..... Mike PS - the semi-auto of your choice can reside on your nightstand, but the new "light-weight" 357s or Lady Smith Mod 60 S&Ws make good choices and are NOT affected function wise when properly mounted inside a purse, and will always be at the ready with proper training. Good Luck with choice and your CHL fight and thanks for being pro-active in dealing with this important issue. [beer] |
| Get a Glock 19, it's controllable & compact & uncomplicated. Lots of holster options. The Sub compact Glocks like the 30 & 31 are too brutal to practice with which is what you need to do on a regular basis. Ditto on the Lightweight .30 revolvers like the Taurus 85T. Good concealable weapon, brutal to shoot. You just can't beat the G19 for a good all around carry weapon, easy to clean & maintain. Get a good defensive load for it like Corbon or similar and you'll have it made. |
| I have two possible suggestions and either seem to fit the bill nicely for a CCW pistol on a budget. They are the Bersa Thunder .380 and the keltec P-11 9mm. Both are available from Gander Mountain locally for under two hundred dollars and both are excellent pistols. The Bersa, we discussed extensively in the handgun forum. The Keltec is what I settled on. It has better ergonomics than the glock, a lifetime warranty, is accurate once you get used to the long DA trigger pull and quit hitting low and left and offers a reasonable caliber in a small lightwieght package. Perhaps these suggestions will help you get started. |
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Quoted: [b]That's why she wants legislators to enable permit holders to carry a concealed handgun into a bar and then put it into a locker.]/b] stupid idea. guns and booze do not mix. period. Agreed, but it does open the door for social clubs that do not serve alcohol. As an alternative, I would think that these clubs could hire armed security or off duty policemen to ensure the safety of their guests to their cars. I know that last suggestion might run against the grain of the self reliance crowd, but it sure beats drunks with guns. |
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Quoted: Hi all! Yep, Kacer = Kim C. Rife = KCR = Kacer - a nickname I got in HS. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in the way of a CCW firearm? I'd PREFER to stay in the $600 and under range cost-wise for my first piece ... and am open to suggestions. I'm partial to the Baretta 92 but am concerned that's a stretch for CC. Especially since I'm 5'-6" and about 140# - not tiny, but not "big" or bulky either .... StonerStudent and I will be working on my AR-15 later this year - but that's NOT (easilly) concealable ;) Go out and rent different pistols at local ranges. Try all the different kinds you are thinking about. Get a feel for them, then get the one YOU like best, the one that fits YOU best. It will be you using it to protect yourself. Good job, btw. ByteTheBullet (-: |
| Actually, my keltec came from the factory with a 8.5lb long DAO trigger and the Bersa has received nothing but fantastic reviews in every publication that has reviewed it. It lists as a best buy. Same for the keltec. Yes, trigger jobs are available on the keltec to shorten the length of pull as well. |
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Quoted: Hi all! Yep, Kacer = Kim C. Rife = KCR = Kacer - a nickname I got in HS. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in the way of a CCW firearm? I'd PREFER to stay in the $600 and under range cost-wise for my first piece ... and am open to suggestions. I'm partial to the Baretta 92 but am concerned that's a stretch for CC. Especially since I'm 5'-6" and about 140# - not tiny, but not "big" or bulky either .... StonerStudent and I will be working on my AR-15 later this year - but that's NOT (easilly) concealable ;) As someone a bit larger, when CCW for the common folk hit up here in Michigan I went from 1911 to officer sized .45 in a (nice paddle holster) to the same officer .45 in a fake day runner to a taurus .38+P with a nemsis pocket holster. Total carry package is under $250 (sale at gunfinder.net-just down the road from me-- and bought the holster online). Get the lightweight model w/ the full rubber grips. |
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Thank you for your effort Kim. I have family in Ohio who I would love have carry legally. Welcome aboard. BTW, others talk about the 9mm, the 45. I suggest the keltec 380 or p32. May not be manstoppers, but the kind of people you are worried about are cowards. Being shot with any gun will give them something other than you to be thinking about. And that is what you really want. (Although DRT does have some large appeal) TXL |
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Bulgarian Makarov! But test to see if you can deal with the double action trigger pull, and snappy recoil. It wouldn't be a good recreational pistol (for the above reasons), but is hard to beat as a defensive weapon. It's also cheap, like <$200.00. Remember that higher caliber blowbacks (greater than .32ACP) can be hard on the hands. I've got an Astra 600 (one of the few blowbacks in 9mm) that will numb your hand in 50 rounds. There will be some who simply suggest a small pistol based on the small round it fires. A small blowback .380 can be much rougher than a locked breech 9mm. |
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Quoted: Remember that higher caliber blowbacks (greater than .32ACP) can be hard on the hands. I've got an Astra 600 (one of the few blowbacks in 9mm) that will numb your hand in 50 rounds. There will be some who simply suggest a small pistol based on the small round it fires. A small blowback .380 can be much rougher than a locked breech 9mm. No joke. My wife has a Sig 232 (.380 blowback), and I hate shooting it. It is a nice gun though, but my crappy, defective wrist doesn't like it very much. |
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Quoted: That's why she wants legislators to enable permit holders to carry a concealed handgun into a bar and then put it into a locker.]/b] stupid idea. guns and booze do not mix. period. No, it's NOT a Stupid Idea. While I do NOT disagree, that alcohol and firearms do NOT mix. _I_ don't drink, and BARS are NOT SOLELY (at least in the GLBT community) FOR drinking. There is also dancing, various "shows" then ther's always pool and the like. They are "social gathering places" that also serve alcohol. This is also where the VAST majority of gay bashings occur - in or around gay bars. The two serious altercations I've had were either leaving a bar or entering one. And, fortunately, they were incompetant and drunk, respectively. So unless I can carry INTO and OUT OF a bar, the place _I'M_ most in need of protection, will be denied to me, and instead, the BASHERS will be protected. Call this clause what it is, "The Basher Protection Clause" - not at all unlike the "Klan's Lynching Committee Protection Act" - or the first Gun Control instituted in the US, to keep firearms away from potential Klan victims, so they would be less able to protect themselves. |
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If I were you, I would stick with a K frame S&W or compact Glock for your first CCW. I plan on using a LB Monolith Comanchee w/bobtail. I have tested a few combinations with my full size Monolith , and none seem to work. We (Ohioians) have two months to decide.... I do not recomend a 1911 for a 'newbie'. Something along the lines of a DA only or revolver always seems to be a good recomendation. Not knowing your skill level, it simplifies your choices. JMHO. |
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Campy: Drinking and driving don't mix - yet you don't see legislators trying to shut down parking lots at bars, do you? I have never even heard a politician SUGGEST not allowing people to drive to and from bars. You just can't drive if you drink. I'm sure everyone here believes that you should not carry [i]if[/i] you are drinking. Still, the laws against carrying in bars are just incremental bullshit put in by the anti-gun crowd. |
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Adam, Exactly. And that's an argument I use often. No one is suggesting that people should turn over their car keys at a bar, why do I need to relinquish my firearm? It's a double standard that's VERY unrequitable. But I'm just really concerned about this because the place GLBT folk MOST need a firearm is the place we're denied, and IMO, it's too close to the "Klan's Lynching Committee Protection Clause" for me to be comfortable with it at all. |
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Gay folk up here in mid Michigan are kind of thin on the ground. Most local government has a prayer before their meetings, and that sort of mindset carries over into all phases of life. Because of a labor case I know that there is one gay bar in the local city. I also found out that the local Catholic Hospital in the ghetto (why do the two always go together?) got a big grant to buy up and fix up the nearby few square blocks of grand old houses that are now in the ghetto. They then sell them to middle and middle/upper class folks for cheap. Most of the houses are being bought by gays. (close to the gay bar, museum, and trendy bar area across the river). I can't even think of a worse plan for disaster. You have gay people, who most people in the area don't like, gathering together and calling attention to themselves, and they are living in a pocket of a ghetto with blacks, who usually really dislike them and also have a high violent crime rate. I think if I were them I would start a pink pistol chapter real fast. |
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Rock on Kim. Hopefully Wisconsin will be joining Ohio as a CCW state next week Tuesday. BTW, I've heard that the Walther P-99 series, with the interchangeable back straps, fit women's hands very well. Also, may want to try kicking the tires on a Springfield XD (a little less pricey - a lot of aftermarket accessories available). I can't even think of a worse plan for disaster. You have gay people, who most people in the area don't like, gathering together and calling attention to themselves, and they are living in a pocket of a ghetto with blacks, who usually really dislike them and also have a high violent crime rate. Same thing happens all the time in Milwaukee, but the people who take big risks often enjoy big rewards. The City's Third Ward and much of the South Side, places that were considered predominately minority populated, poor, and generally unsafe years ago, now pretty much owe all of their current property value increases (the term “skyrocketing” comes to mind) to the Coffee Shops, Art Galleries, Antique Stores, and yup – Drinking Establishments that are owned by and cater to gays. If I were smart I would have bought some buildings down on the Southside 10 years ago and turned them condo (like everybody is doing right now). |
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Happyshooter, Uh, sorry to "burst" your bubble. You may not have "in your face" gays or lesbians in Michigan, but as the "premiere state for lesbians" (in August, anyway) - trust me, you have queers. Ann Arbor is VERY active (most college cities are)I've been to several of their coffeehouses (long before Starbucks came along) and gay bars. Let's see, what I _know_ about is: Ann Arbor: 5 bars I_KNOW_ about. Pontiac - 1, Saugatuck - 1, Detriot - about 25 - more impressive even than Columbus' #. (though we still outnumber Michigan per the census ;), Kalamazoo 3, Lansing - 4, Saginaw - 1,Escanaba - 1, Flint 3, Grand Rapids - 3, Jackson - 1,Muskegon Heights -1, Port Huron - 2, Battle Creek - 1, Traverse City - 1. (Did I mention, I like Michigan's football team so much, that though I hope OSU wins every other game, I prefer it that they don't win the Michigan game? ;) Then there's the publication that is nationally distributed, Lesbian Connection. It goes back at least to the 70's - possibly the 60's. It's out of Michigan. And trust me, if you are seeing signs of gay "urban rejuvenation" - you've got QUITE a healthy population - GLBT-wise. And there's at least 1 Michigan chapter of the Pink Pistols I KNOW of, but I think it's in the Detroit area. |
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Quoted: Hi all! Yep, Kacer = Kim C. Rife = KCR = Kacer - a nickname I got in HS. Anyone have suggestions on what to look for in the way of a CCW firearm? I'd PREFER to stay in the $600 and under range cost-wise for my first piece ... and am open to suggestions. I'm partial to the Baretta 92 but am concerned that's a stretch for CC. Especially since I'm 5'-6" and about 140# - not tiny, but not "big" or bulky either .... StonerStudent and I will be working on my AR-15 later this year - but that's NOT (easilly) concealable ;) Get a Makarov and if you have long fingers and the original grip seems smallish, get a set of pearce grips. Get a case of ammo and shoot 50 rounds at least every two weeks to stay proficient. Easy to conceal, highly reliable and cheap to shoot. |
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Quoted: Quoted: [b]That's why she wants legislators to enable permit holders to carry a concealed handgun into a bar and then put it into a locker.]/b] stupid idea. guns and booze do not mix. period. Agreed, but it does open the door for social clubs that do not serve alcohol. As an alternative, I would think that these clubs could hire armed security or off duty policemen to ensure the safety of their guests to their cars. I know that last suggestion might run against the grain of the self reliance crowd, but it sure beats drunks with guns. Also the problem would be getting any of the clubs to go along with lock the guns up. Not mention I'm not really hip on handing my popper over to someone who will most likely doesn't know crap about firearms. Kims right to the point on the bashing problem though,most attacks happen in the area of the clubs. Of course thats when Mister Basher meets Mister Benchmade. |
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StonerStudent, My concept is to have like a $1 "locker rental fee" for the night. _I'd_ take it off, _I'd_ put it (likely holster and all) into a locker, _I'd_ take the key & reverse the process when we left. It'd take a while, but IMO, eventually it would make them $ - and more people would come to their club `cause the bashing incidents would go down, `cause we'd PUBLICIZE the fact that they have lockers, and it is a very reasonable "fee" and we can feel safe entering an exiting. Then all the others will be clamoring to follow suit.. |