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Posted: 5/19/2005 8:02:11 PM EDT
This post elicited 297 replies and over 6,300 views. Some replies sided with the family, some sided with the Deputies, some sided with both. Some replies found fault with the Home owner or his son, some with the Deputies, some with no one. Some made un-proven accusations, some sounded like they didn't read the posts at all and sounded like Trolls or 10 Year Olds that knew bad words. It's easy to read a half assed News Paper story and call someone involved a "Drunk" or "Looser" or "JBT", never having met the people involved or even some of them.

One of your members alerted me to this site and this post and it's replies. Why you ask? Because I've known Fred Bletz and his family for over 30 years and not just a casual friendship. Fred and I were as tight as brothers and thick as thieves for a very long time. We met in 1971 after we had both gotten out of the military, our military service was probably what drew us together and our love of motorcycles. We lost track of each other when I retired from the Police Department and then moved to Missouri some 6 years ago. I meant to call Fred many times but life happened and I just never got around to it. Now it's too late. It took them time to track me down here in the Ozarks and by then the funeral was over and the investigation had started. If you have an old friend you haven't talked too in many years CALL HIM TODAY, because tomorrow maybe too late. Just a word of advice from someone who knows what it's like to get THAT call out of the blue.

Some replied that Fred being a Vietnam Vet had no bearing on the story. I disagree, if you knew the WHOLE story you'd know the man very well. A man's past actions can tell you much about the man, does he have Personal Honor, does he have a sense of Duty, does his actions show he thinks of others first or himself, does he keep a cool head when everything around him is turning to shit. When you finish reading this you'll know because BY God I'm going to tell you who Fred "Gunner" Bletz was.

Oh, and by the way he didn't raise a son that is a "looser" or a "drunk". He's a bright, honest young man that made a mistake and compounded it in making another by not going to the Court Hearing because he knew he didn't have the money to pay the fine. He was too ashamed to ask his father for it and tell him about it. Until that Misdemeanor DUI ticket he'd had one traffic ticket in his life. He works as a "DJ" at several clubs in Grand Rapids and stays in Grand Rapids except for the two nights a week he doesn't work and goes home to Saranac. It generally takes a couple hours to shut down and clean up after the clubs close. Zachary will get a drink and then start shutting down, but one night things happened and they had to clear out an hour early. That hour would have put him well below the .08 Blood Alcohol Limit Michigan has. Zachary pulled out of the club lot with a tail light out, GRPD stopped him, he blew just a hair over .08 and so now he had an "Impaired" Misdemeanor DUI Appearance Ticket. He had no idea that he could have appeared and made "Payments" to pay the fine off. How many of you know that? He's never taken a alcoholic drink again after work since that night. Now I'll tell you who his Father was.

Gunner was a Marine, an enlisted Marine not a draftee. Gunner was a decorated Marine, like so many other Marines. So what was the difference in this Marine than so many other Marines? If you know a Marine that served during Viet Nam or after and you ask them about "B" Company 1st Battalion 9th Marines (The Walking Dead) they can probably tell you the story. Because B/1/9 is a legend in the Marine Corps and Gunner is a part of that legend. For those of you that don't know a Marine to ask I'll tell you the "Short" version of B/1/9 and PFC Fred Roger Bletz of 2nd Platoon in April 1967.

On April 24, 1967 B/1/9 was tasked to sweep and investigate Hills 861, 881 North & 881 South that formed a "triangle" 4 klicks(Kilometers) North of Khe Sanh and look for and clear out reported caves in the hills. Marine Force Recon Teams had been reporting massive NVA troop movements in the area since early April. Command at Khe Sanh didn't believe the reports and B/1/9 was briefed to expect NO MORE than 1 undermanned Company of VC with 2- 82mm mortars with only 1 base plate and little ammunition. NVA were regular North Vietnamese Army, well trained and well equipped. VC were more a Para-military force, ill trained and ill equipped in general.

B/1/9 ran into an ambush that afternoon about 1 klick South West of Hill 861 (it wasn't an ambush, they ran into the Flanking Guard of an NVA Infantry Regiment heading South to attack Khe Sanh that night. Lucky for Khe Sanh that spoiled the planned attack, very, very unlucky for B/1/9. In that first contact B/1/9 had 2 KIA, 5 WIA, and 2 MIA. This is during the Monsoon season and Heavy fog rolled in, B/1/9 knew they were out gunned and broke contact dragging their wounded and dead with them in the fog towards Hill 861. What B/1/9 didn't know was a second Regiment of NVA Infantry re-enforced with 10 Recoilless Rifles and 10- 120mm mortars were dug in on the three hills they were heading for. The fog was heavy enough that they couldn't Huey in re-enforcement or air-evac their wounded and dead out and Khe Sanh was a long 3-4 klicks away.

During that night they were pushed up to Hill 861 and then about half way up the hill the NVA on the hill opened up on them also. B/1/9 had started out "Pack Light" just 2 days water, rations and ammo so they "dug in" with their bayonets, helmets and canteen cups. The NVA on the hill pounded them with Recoilless Rifle fire, 120mm mortars, machine guns and small arms. The NVA Regiment in the valley sent Battalion sized "Human Wave" assaults against them from below. They fought this way until B/3/3 and K/3/9 fought their way to them the afternoon of April 27th.

ONE Marine Company of about 200 against a 5,000 man NVA Infantry Regiment below them and about 1,600 NVA dug in on the hill above them for 4 days. Every man in B/1/9 was wounded, some 2 and 3 times, almost half the Company was killed. Only 12 "walking wounded" of B/1/9 walked off Hill 861. PFC Fred Bletz was one of the twelve. From that day on B/1/9 was named "The Walking Dead"by the Corps. But the Story doesn't end there.

When they got to the rear area, trucks were waiting to take them the 3 klicks back to Khe Sanh, the 12 walking wounded refused to ride back, they said "We walked in, we'll walk out" it was a matter of pride, they were Marines. Purple Hearts went to everyone along with Bronze and Silver Stars for some and if I remember right one CMH. But the story doesn't end there.

Fred's wounds were bad enough that he could have gone back to the States, a decorated Marine. He refused, telling them "In a month I'll be fit for duty. If I leave some other Marine will have to take my place here, while I'd be pulling duty safely back in the States. I can't do that to another Marine, I'm staying here." Fred stayed and 5 or 6 weeks later was pulling duty as a Door Gunner on a Huey. In October 1967 Fred's Huey was shot down, wounded again he spent 5 days in the jungle avoiding capture by the VC and made it back to base camp. This time his accumulative wounds not only sent him back to the States but also got him discharged from his beloved Marine Corps on a Medical. The News Papers said he was awarded 2 Purple Hearts, that's true but they missed the Bronze Star with "V" device, the "V" denoted it was awarded for Valor in Combat. In general that means you put your life on the line to complete the mission or you put it on the line for someone else. Fred never told me about the Bronze Star or how he got it, I saw it by accident one day in his dresser when he asked me to get something from the dresser for him. I never asked about it and I'm not sure anyone else knew he had it other than his wife maybe.

Fred was a Life member of VFW Post #3732

He was a Mentor at the "I Challenge Youth Center" at the Post.

He was the State Director of the Michigan Chapters of "Rolling Thunder" a Viet Nam Veterans POW/MIA activist group.

He was a Farrier (He shod Horses for a living) and he was a damn fine machinist but he couldn't stand up at a machine all day. His foot had been shot apart and it took us TWO YEARS to get the VA to treat his "Combat Injury" when it went bad in 1978-79

So what kind of guy was Gunner? Maybe this will tell you: A Viet Nam Vet called him one day asking for help because his PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) was tearing his family apart. Fred dropped what he was doing right then and went to the man and stayed with him and his family until he got him professional help....
.
.
.
For a week....
.
.
.
In Ohio........ No, the guy wasn't a Marine, he was a U.S. Army Grunt like me.


Fred never got rattled, and was slow to anger. He had PTSD, we both did but we supported each other, we were each others "Head check" for a long time. Maybe that's why we were so close for so long. He hadn't had a "flashback" in well over 15 years but it took professional help for him to beat it. I was lucky, I got over it quick just being able to talk about it with Gunner, he understood. Did PTSD have anything to do with it that night? I don't know, only Gunner knows and he can't tell us.

Well this post is long enough, in my next one I'll tell you what I know of that night. Yes, I still have friends back in Michigan in Law Enforcement so there are things that I know the papers don't know right now.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:04:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:08:06 PM EDT
Interesting first post.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:08:21 PM EDT
*bump*

+1 for informative post
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 8:18:07 PM EDT by krpind]
Really good first post.

I am sorry for your friend.

As posted in the original thread, i feel sorry for everyone involved....it was tragic.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:11:02 PM EDT
Thanks for the info and insight. Should have left the harangue intro off his obituary, though.

Thanks for your Service and enjoy your visit.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:13:45 PM EDT
The hill fights. God.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Interesting first post.



I dare say this may be the best first post in the history of arfcom.

Tag for rest of the story about Fred.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:14:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 9:54:47 PM EDT by Mauser101]
tagged for later
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:17:43 PM EDT
Thank you.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:24:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:25:54 PM EDT
thank you, we would not have known.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:28:39 PM EDT
Thanks man.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:29:55 PM EDT
Sorry for your loss
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:32:43 PM EDT
Thanks for posting that. I am sorry your friend was killed in such a tragic and senseless manner. Especially after reading that brief history. I hope that, somehow, some good comes from it all.

Resquiescat in pace.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:32:51 PM EDT
Please continue...........
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:33:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:40:38 PM EDT
Can anyone provide me a link to the story and to the thread? Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:41:18 PM EDT
Thank you.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:47:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 8:47:57 PM EDT by ZW17]
Wow......

That blew me away.

I am sorry for the loss of your good friend. He sounds like a top notch man. I had no clue that he was part of the 12 that made it off that hill. It's a damn shame that he made it off that hill only to be taken in that tragic accident.

Cheers to his life while he was here.


RIP Marine
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:47:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kikomax:
Can anyone provide me a link to the story and to the thread? Thanks.



Link
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:48:20 PM EDT


Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:49:15 PM EDT
fucking brilliant post
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:56:13 PM EDT
You have my ears...
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 8:58:06 PM EDT
It is a damn shame. A good man was killed.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:05:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 9:06:15 PM EDT by Grunteled]
That really puts a human face on the story. That really makes it all the more upsetting. Nothing to really to say.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:14:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 9:14:39 PM EDT by Gunbert]
Great and tragic first post. Shame all the way 'round.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:21:51 PM EDT
wow
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:31:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quien:

Originally Posted By kikomax:
Can anyone provide me a link to the story and to the thread? Thanks.



Link



Thank you for the link. I had already found it.

I am so angry that this is my third attempt at a post on this thread.

RIP good soldier, thank you for your service.

The incompetence exhibited by those in charge will be dealt with soon.

Roll on Thunder.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:47:43 PM EDT
Tagged for rest of story.......
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:14:11 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:01:33 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:11:34 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:33:02 AM EDT
Thank you for an absolutely historic "1st post" TreverSlyFox.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:01:53 AM EDT
tagged and thank you for the great post and your service.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:29:31 AM EDT
The very best first post I have read.

Welcome to the site, hope you stick around.





RIP Fred "Gunner" Bletz
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:37:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2A373:
The very best first post I have read.

Welcome to the site, hope you stick around.





RIP Fred "Gunner" Bletz



Big +1. Sorry for the loss of your friend. It sounds like he was one of those rare people you meet in life that you are truly better for having had time with. I never bothered clicking on the story....it seemed like one that would piss me off. For whatever happened, it's shame someone who survived all that would be killed by an officer. I hope that whatever justice should be served is. Stick around....and if you are ever around Branson...give me a holler and we'll do some shooting!
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:47:56 AM EDT
^^^
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:01:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:10:13 AM EDT
Speechless here.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:49:59 AM EDT
Thank you for posting, and thanks for your service.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:52:44 AM EDT
Thank you.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 3:56:40 AM EDT
The original story was sad enough. I'm very sorry for the loss of your good friend.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 4:18:04 AM EDT
Ok, here is my second post. This is what I know of the shooting that night.


First let me preface this with a little info about me, because I'm going to make some assumptions about what the Deputies did that night. I think I'm well qualified to do that as I'm a retired Police Officer, Volunteer Firefighter and Emergency Medical Technician. My entire Law Enforcement career was spent in Michigan so I'm acquainted with the Ionia County Sheriff's Department. Law Enforcement has what's called SOP (Standard Operating Procedure), it's a set of "standing orders, procedures, and guidelines" written by the Department that covers just about anything an Officer does. From what caliber handgun he can carry on and off duty if he supplies his own weapon, to what you do on a Homicide scene and in what order, what you do when you make an arrest, and what order you'll do it in. In general, you could take an SOP handbook from a Northern Michigan Department and one from a Southern Michigan Department and they'd almost read the same. Why is that you ask? Because of State Law, Law Suits that have set precedent, Attorney General Opinions and Supreme Court Rulings both State and Federal and all Michigan Police Officers come from the same Michigan Police Academies, they're trained the same in the basics. . Yes there are differences in Departments and "Field Training Officers" to take into account but the "Basics" stay the same.

Now let me preface this also with I WAS NOT THERE, I DID NOT SEE IT HAPPEN. I DO NOT KNOW the two Deputies involved, I do know their reputations through my sources in Law Enforcement back in Michigan. They are NOT ROOKIES, their reputations are NOT those of JBTs. They have SPOTLESS records on the Sheriff's Department. The Sgt. that fired the shots is a 13 year veteran on the Department. But I am also a long time friend of the man they shot and his family so I'm probably prejudiced whether I like it or not in my friends favor. I also haven't seen or talked to my friend or his family in almost 6 years before this happened.

On May 3, 2005 at 23:00 hrs (11 PM) Sgt. Gribble and Deputy Denny started their shift with the Ionia County Sheriff's Department. Their task that night, directed by the Sheriff was to "Clear up" any outstanding Arrest Warrants they could. The warrant on the top of the pile was a "Misdemeanor Bench Warrant" for Failure to Appear from Kent County for Zachary Bletz whose address was in Ionia County.

(This is the first puzzle I come across. Any time I was tasked with the same duty we "sorted out" the warrants from worst crime to least crime, felony to misdemeanor. Not just from top to bottom as the pile sat there. You want to take the worst off the street first if you can.)

The Deputies arrived at the address at approx 23:22 (11:22 PM) parking at the rear of the farm house. The house was dark but was somewhat moonlit as it's broken clouds. A figure appeared in a window and Sgt. Gribble shined his flashlight on himself, being in full uniform to identify himself as a Deputy. His fellow Deputy had moved to the side of the house to cover the front door. The figure nodded and moved from the window and reappeared at the back door as the porch light came on and opened the door and stood in the door way holding the screen door open. He appeared to be a young white male roughly matching the description of Zachary Bletz as far as the Sgt could tell. Calling to his partner Sgt Gribble approached the back door, with Deputy Denny meeting them there. A dog within the house started to bark but was quickly quieted by the person. Upon questioning, the person Identified himself as Zachary Bletz. Mr Bletz was informed of the Arrest Warrant and placed under arrest without incident and was cooperative. Mr Bletz turned off the porch light, stepped out closing the door behind him and was escorted to the squad car.

(Zachary had just gone to his room as the Deputies pulled up. His mom and dad went to bed at least an hour before. Up to this point the Deputies and Zachary agree on the details. Zachary says about half way to the car one of the Deputies said he should have regular shoes on and not house slippers. The Deputies say he asked to be allowed to return to the house and put on regular shoes and they consented as he was cooperative. When you go to jail they take your shoes, so why would the Deputy care what he had on, unless they wanted to see in the house.

Here is another problem also: Zachary is under arrest but he has not been patted down or hand cuffed. A little MIRANDA warning here maybe warranted if they intend to question him, though I don't see any reason to question him. All basic SOP upon arrest but NONE of it is done.)

(Zachary says as they approach the back door he is "nudged" in the back by one of the Deputies and they have their guns drawn. Neither report states when the Deputies drew their guns. Ok if they like the kid so much and trust to let him go back inside the house and get shoes on and they haven't cuffed him. Why are the guns drawn? Just cautious? Maybe, I might have done the same. But going back into a house after you have the suspect in custody isn't a real smart call but it's still within the Officers judgement and experiance)

They enter the back door again. As they enter Zachary says his shoes are over by a chair and points just ahead and to the right. No lights have been turned on and the Deputies illuminates the area he is pointing at with their flashlights. As Zachary starts to move to the chair the dog comes running out of the kitchen area barking and Zachary tries to quiet him again, but without much effect. Since the Officers are now inside the house the dog isn't going for it and gets even louder. The Deputies are now yelling over the dogs barking to "Shut him up" and Zachary is trying to calm the dog down. The dog is bouncing back and forth barking his head off with Zachary trying to grab him by the collar and keep him away from the Deputies who have their flashlights trained on the dog, back and forth.

(Zachary says the house is dark except for the flashlights. The Deputies say there is enough light to see by. But if so why the flashlights and neither Deputies report says anyone turned on a light inside the house. So where is this extra light coming from? All window curtains are closed. Back door is open, screen door is closed. Wonder how high the moon is in the sky at this time, I don't know. This is in the country there are NO street lights and it's in the back of the house away from the street even if there were any.)

(At this point Fred comes out of the bedroom and partially into the family room from the left. It's not clear who sees him first but all reports agree he's first seen with his arms out stretched, .45 auto in both hands at waist level with the muzzle pointed at the floor, the "Low Ready" position.)

(This next part is hard to describe, it all happens in about 3-4 seconds and it is ALL happening at the SAME TIME with the distance between Fred and the Deputies less than 10 feet.)

When the Deputies see Fred they say they slide left and right , raise their weapons, point their flashlights at Fred and crouch, yelling at the same time "Sheriff , drop the gun!!" "drop the gun!!". When he doesn't drop the gun and they say he turned towards them and raised the gun Sgt Gribble fired 4 shots.

At the same time Zachary now ignores the dog, stands up with one arm out stretched, palm up towards the Deputies, and one arm out stretched, palm up towards his dad, he looks over his shoulder towards the deputies and screams "It's my dad!!" "it's my dad!!", starts to turn his head towards his dad over the other shoulder screaming "it's ok!!" "It's ok dad!!", "I'm going with them it's the Po..." He never finishes the word as the first shot rings out, he drops to the floor and 3 more shots are fired. When he looks up at where his dad was all he can see is his dad's leg stretched out on the floor into the family room and hears him wheezing. Zachary says he never heard the Deputies identify themselves , only "Drop the gun!!" "Drop the gun!!".

(Here's my problem, Zachary is directly in Fred's line of fire if he keeps turning to his right to bare on the Deputies and Zachary's hand is within 2 feet of his dad. Zachary is the closest to his dad so if Fred hears anything clearly it should be Zachary's voice he hears. I doubt Fred would keep turning and raise his weapon at the sound of his son's voice. With the house dark and two flashlights (probably 2 "C" cell or 4 "D"cell Mag lights or one of each or they could have been "SureFires" that are "Made" to "Blind" your opponent) pointed at him from less than 10 feet and 4-5 feet apart what could he see if at all? With the dog barking and everyone screaming at the same time what could he hear and what could he hear clearly? Fred never said anything, never fired a shot or returned fire. Just too many unknowns here for a clear picture of exactly how it went down.)

(The preliminary autopsy report says Fred was hit in the "Lower right abdomen" at a slight angle from right to left and slightly upward but they could not tell if he was turning at the time or if his arms were raised or lowered. It states " With the full autopsy, all forensics in and a full reconstruction of the scene we should be able to give a more accurate account." From the preliminary autopsy if the Sgt who fired is to his right and Deputy Denny is to his left the wound makes sense. If the Sgt is to his left and Deputy Denny is to his right then the Sgt fired before the gun was pointed at anyone. The reports don't say where each was. Again to unclear to call.)

(The next part, after the shooting really POs me. They secure the gun, Kitty, fred's wife runs out of the bedroom sees Fred and starts screaming "Help Him" "He's dying, help him" they drag her away along with Zachary, cuff and stuff them in the squad car. Telling her "We called EMS." and do nothing to assist Fred, EMS is 10-15 minutes away and Fred bleeds to death on the floor before EMS arrives. The only one with Fred was his dog, which is something I guess. If either Deputy holds ANY EMS certification, First Aid, First Responder, EMT etc. He's in VERY big dodo and so is the Sheriff's Department. If you hold certification in Michigan by State Law you have to render assistance. If they don't they get a free pass by law. But man, that's sure cold and if I remember rightly all the States got a bunch of Federal money from Homeland Security to train all LEOs and Firemen to "First Responder" level certification after 9/11. I may be wrong on the money part because I haven't really kept up on all of it since I retired.)

The bottom line, the whole thing sucks no matter how it turns out. For myself I've put it into the Lord's hands because I just can't deal with it . He does know the truth no matter what the investigation says happened. If punishment is due or someone is to blame He'll do a much better job than I could.

Semper Fi Gunner, I'll see you on the other side.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 4:29:29 AM EDT
TreverSlyFox
Thanks for taking the time to tell us the details.

If they could have helped and didnt I hope they go to jail.


(The next part, after the shooting really POs me. They secure the gun, Kitty, fred's wife runs out of the bedroom sees Fred and starts screaming "Help Him" "He's dying, help him" they drag her away along with Zachary, cuff and stuff them in the squad car. Telling her "We called EMS." and do nothing to assist Fred, EMS is 10-15 minutes away and Fred bleeds to death on the floor before EMS arrives. The only one with Fred was his dog, which is something I guess. If either Deputy holds ANY EMS certification, First Aid, First Responder, EMT etc. He's in VERY big dodo and so is the Sheriff's Department. If you hold certification in Michigan by State Law you have to render assistance. If they don't they get a free pass by law. But man, that's sure cold and if I remember rightly all the States got a bunch of Federal money from Homeland Security to train all LEOs and Firemen to "First Responder" level certification after 9/11. I may be wrong on the money part because I haven't really kept up on all of it since I retired.)



Link Posted: 5/20/2005 4:47:38 AM EDT
I'm really sorry for the loss of your friend. IMO, it sounds pretty bad for the Deputies..

Dave
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 4:52:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 4:59:18 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By TreverSlyFox:
Oh, and by the way he didn't raise a son that is a "looser" or a "drunk". He's a bright, honest young man that made a mistake and compounded it in making another by not going to the Court Hearing...





Sorry to hear the nut fell so far from the tree.

The son;
1. Drank when he knew he would be driving home.
2. Drank to excess when he knew he would be driving home.
3. Drove with a b/o tail light, after drinking to excess.
4. Got caught.
5. Skipped out on his court date.
6. Didnt turn himself in after skipping out on his court date.

The son apparently did not have 1/10th the moral character of his father.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 5:03:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 5:12:38 AM EDT by jchewie]
Thank you. For your service and for your post. I live near the area that this incident occurred and posted the original topic. And I am still sad.




Edit after reading the second post. Damn.


Link Posted: 5/20/2005 5:14:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By TreverSlyFox:
Oh, and by the way he didn't raise a son that is a "looser" or a "drunk". He's a bright, honest young man that made a mistake and compounded it in making another by not going to the Court Hearing...





Sorry to hear the nut fell so far from the tree.

The son;
1. Drank when he knew he would be driving home.
2. Drank to excess when he knew he would be driving home.
3. Drove with a b/o tail light, after drinking to excess.
4. Got caught.
5. Skipped out on his court date.
6. Didnt turn himself in after skipping out on his court date.

The son apparently did not have 1/10th the moral character of his father.



That's a tad harsh. Sounds like you're slamming the kid to draw attention away from procedural errors on the LEOs' parts.

IMHO, they should have just taken the kid into custody and left.

After the shooting, how could they just leave him bleeding on the floor???

I am an LEO supporter, but I also believe in accountability when somebody screws up.


TreverSlyFox, thanks for the posts. You have done us all an honor by sharing Gunner's memory with us.

Lesson to all: We often read or hear about Vets in articles. Keep in mind that EACH one has a story and EACH one has earned our respect and gratitude.

The next time you're walking through the mall and see an elderly man with a "USS Whatever"/ "USAF Retired"/"Vietnam Veteran"/Etc... ballcap, introduce yourself, shake his hand, and thank him for his service to our nation.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 5:18:38 AM EDT
I don't know really what to say. One of the worst things to happen to anyone, but to have gone through all Gunner did and survive only to go out due to ignorance and stupidity. My heart bleeds for him and his family, may God keep and bless them, for now He has been charged with the care of Gunner. If there is anything you need or something I can do to help please let me know. email is cherokee38@cox.net, stay strong and be there for his family if possible, they sure could use someone like you right now! God Bless Norman


Link Posted: 5/20/2005 5:21:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By TreverSlyFox:
Oh, and by the way he didn't raise a son that is a "looser" or a "drunk". He's a bright, honest young man that made a mistake and compounded it in making another by not going to the Court Hearing...





Sorry to hear the nut fell so far from the tree.

The son;
1. Drank when he knew he would be driving home.
2. Drank to excess when he knew he would be driving home.
3. Drove with a b/o tail light, after drinking to excess.
4. Got caught.
5. Skipped out on his court date.
6. Didnt turn himself in after skipping out on his court date.

The son apparently did not have 1/10th the moral character of his father.



That's a tad harsh. Sounds like you're slamming the kid to draw attention away from procedural errors on the LEOs' parts.

IMHO, they should have just taken the kid into custody and left.

After the shooting, how could they just leave him bleeding on the floor???

I am an LEO supporter, but I also believe in accountability when somebody screws up.


TreverSlyFox, thanks for the posts. You have done us all an honor by sharing Gunner's memory with us.

Lesson to all: We often read or hear about Vets in articles. Keep in mind that EACH one has a story and EACH one has earned our respect and gratitude.

The next time you're walking through the mall and see an elderly man with a "USS Whatever"/ "USAF Retired"/"Vietnam Veteran"/Etc... ballcap, introduce yourself, shake his hand, and thank him for his service to our nation.



+1 well said
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